Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Rules/Foundation => Topic started by: Eric on January 25, 2016, 03:28:52 PM
-
As we all know, many former hosts (excluding myself since I did OOC route) claim to retain some of the chakra of the old beast. Now, in that aspect, while the tailed beasts are not allowed to be partitioned into yin-yang, (is that a hard rule this time, or an agreed upon precedence not explicitly put it? I don't recall) is there any rules regarding psuedo jinchurikii who have enough of a tailed beast's chakra to kind of mimick the properties of a jinchurikii?
In that regard, is tailed beast chakra also allowed to be used for seals/enhancements etc by those who are neither summoners nor jinchurikii?
-
Well I remember in the good ol days (which may or may not have existed) I planned to have all of the bijuu I captured sealed in my Gedo Mazo knock off and then have my Akatsuki members have a seal on them that would allow all of them to tap into the collective power of however many Bijuu we had sealed away. I was told that it would count as dividing the bijuu's power and it would not be allowed.
So it is my understanding that you cannot do much with them, really. If you lose the bijuu the general rule that I know anyway is that you still have its passive ability (Sand Release for Shukaku, Lava for Yonbi, etc) if you had mastered the beast before losing it.
-
Well I have 3 characters who are.
2 canon = Ginkaku and Kinkaku
1 kind of canon = Yugito. She really is the only one I have used that power in RP though. She had the blue fire and massive chakra pool.
I don't see how I can really say yeah or nay without it being biased. Typically ex- hosts have been altered in some means. What that is or should be...I don't know.
I kind of view these two subjects as separate issues.
Being altered by the bijuu...hasn't changed the beast, only the host.
Partitioning off chakra of the beast into yin and yang? And parts of its chakra to be used by those who are not hosts or summoners? I don't know.
-
... So it is my understanding that you cannot do much with them, really. If you lose the bijuu the general rule that I know anyway is that you still have its passive ability (Sand Release for Shukaku, Lava for Yonbi, etc) if you had mastered the beast before losing it.
I do not find this general rule anywhere in the current rules. Something like this should be made an actual rule so that it isn't up in the air. Consider it a chance for us to rethink the whole matter as we have nigh rethought everything else.
-
It's definitely an unofficial rule. Pretty sure we made it part of a rule somewhere here, if not we should.
-
It's not really proven that Sand Release and Lava Release came from Bijuu. It's speculation at best. The ability to spit out ink from your mouth may be the only passive ability that comes from a Bijuu unless you find someone who has Ink Release, if there is such a thing. Oh and blue flame from the Cat.
But having Tailed Beast chakra by those who have not be hosts and/or summoners is sketchy. That would mean that anyone could become a tailess tailed beast which is a major problem when you think about it. Unless they could form tails without a beast sealed inside them...which still is an issue.
-
It's not really proven that Sand Release and Lava Release came from Bijuu. It's speculation at best. The ability to spit out ink from your mouth may be the only passive ability that comes from a Bijuu unless you find someone who has Ink Release, if there is such a thing. Oh and blue flame from the Cat.
But having Tailed Beast chakra by those who have not be hosts and/or summoners is sketchy. That would mean that anyone could become a tailess tailed beast which is a major problem when you think about it. Unless they could form tails without a beast sealed inside them...which still is an issue.
Considering Rasa has the ability to control golden sand, I'm sure we can speculate Sand isn't a jinchuuriki thing.
I do believe maintaining a bijuu could warrant being able to keep some characteristics of it. Be it visual or something regarding abilities/chakra nature -- whether or not they were OOC or IC-based hosts.
-
It's not really proven that Sand Release and Lava Release came from Bijuu. It's speculation at best. The ability to spit out ink from your mouth may be the only passive ability that comes from a Bijuu unless you find someone who has Ink Release, if there is such a thing. Oh and blue flame from the Cat.
But having Tailed Beast chakra by those who have not be hosts and/or summoners is sketchy. That would mean that anyone could become a tailess tailed beast which is a major problem when you think about it. Unless they could form tails without a beast sealed inside them...which still is an issue.
Considering Rasa has the ability to control golden sand, I'm sure we can speculate Sand isn't a jinchuuriki thing.
I do believe maintaining a bijuu could warrant being able to keep some characteristics of it. Be it visual or something regarding abilities/chakra nature -- whether or not they were OOC or IC-based hosts.
He just has magnet release. It's gold dust controlled through magnet release. I don't know if canonically anyone else controls sand. I think other Suna nin do in filler
-
It's not really proven that Sand Release and Lava Release came from Bijuu. It's speculation at best. The ability to spit out ink from your mouth may be the only passive ability that comes from a Bijuu unless you find someone who has Ink Release, if there is such a thing. Oh and blue flame from the Cat.
But having Tailed Beast chakra by those who have not be hosts and/or summoners is sketchy. That would mean that anyone could become a tailess tailed beast which is a major problem when you think about it. Unless they could form tails without a beast sealed inside them...which still is an issue.
Considering Rasa has the ability to control golden sand, I'm sure we can speculate Sand isn't a jinchuuriki thing.
I do believe maintaining a bijuu could warrant being able to keep some characteristics of it. Be it visual or something regarding abilities/chakra nature -- whether or not they were OOC or IC-based hosts.
He just has magnet release. It's gold dust controlled through magnet release. I don't know if canonically anyone else controls sand. I think other Suna nin do in filler
See, I wanted to say it was magnetic but I couldn't remember -- and then I remembered pure gold isn't magnetic, but people also cannot spew out amounts of water from their body exceeding their mass. So, yeah. Thanks for the clear up.
-
Argueably some nins have it in canon too; if memory serves Kankuro's usual puppet disguise is via sand.
Either way that's how its been on SL already, so unless nobody's unwilling to make themselves a human-octopus hybrid, octopus sage or something then about the only more unique host-only thing is the coral or whatever from Isopu. Ultimately even Matatabi's fire is just different color/intensity than normal sort, which can be achieved via other means.
-
So are psuedo-jinchurikii going to exist as a thing? Because unless we make some ground rules for them they aren't going to be official entities by any stretch of the imagination.
-
Unless current hosts go splitting their beasts there's not really anyone who can make them but me, and even that's mainly limited to minor stuff for people who were hosts in the past out of which nobody has yet to express any interest. Bijuu/fight fanatics won't ever consider anybody but the 'main' hosts as 'official' anyway, and other people just don't really care whats 'official' or not.
So there's basically no reason to mess with this.
-
Unless current hosts go splitting their beasts there's not really anyone who can make them but me, and even that's mainly limited to minor stuff for people who were hosts in the past out of which nobody has yet to express any interest. Bijuu/fight fanatics won't ever consider anybody but the 'main' hosts as 'official' anyway, and other people just don't really care whats 'official' or not.
So there's basically no reason to mess with this.
I disagree:
In the anime, when someone has had tailed beast's chakra sealed into themselves, but not the beast itself, that person is considered a pseudo-jinchūriki (人柱力もどき, jinchūrikimodoki, English TV: Simulated-jinchūriki).[23] Sora and Hōichi are examples of this.
Naruto Uzumaki received chakra from eight of the tailed beasts without having them truly sealed in him, with the exception of the Nine-Tails. However, Naruto has been called their jinchūriki as well.[24]
The Gold and Silver Brothers were able to gain abilities similar to a jinchūriki by consuming some of the Nine-Tails' flesh. Kumo ninja's subsequent attempts to replicate this by eating the Eight-Tails' tentacles caused only death. The Gold and Silver Brothers' success was only because they are distantly related to the Sage of Six Paths.[25]
In the anime, Kabuto Yakushi used his Body Recreation Technique with some of Kurama's chakra in order to create a clone of Naruto's four-tailed form. Proving too powerful for Kabuto's control, the clone is able to siphon Kurama's chakra to temporarily increase his power.[26]
Source: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Jinch%C5%ABriki
It is stupid easy to become and lose status as a psuedo jinchurikii. It is anyone with enough fo the tailed beast's chakra to begin accessing some of its abiulities. The Gold and Silver brothers are probably the most SL of examples (eating stomach of a tailed beast, what a fetish) but creating a psuedo jinchurikii isn't as hard as it sounds.
The only problem is that keeping track of psuedo jinchurikii would kind of be a pain, since without any rules or regulations on them it's like being a jinchurikii with only temporary reserves of the tailed beasts' chakra (for those who don't use it alot that's not really a bad thing) and in some instances would be preferably to going through the trouble of being a full blown host.
-
Eating a beast kills you lest you're Hagoromo's relative, and last I recall nobody is gonna agree with copying beast chakra, so that throws kumo brothers and Kabuto routes out the window.
Sora and Naruto routes in turn would require one of the current hosts parting with a chunk of theirs, which I can't see the current set doing.
So quite the opposite of stupid easy.
-
Eating a beast kills you lest you're Hagoromo's relative, and last I recall nobody is gonna agree with copying beast chakra, so that throws kumo brothers and Kabuto routes out the window.
Sora and Naruto routes in turn would require one of the current hosts parting with a chunk of theirs, which I can't see the current set doing.
So quite the opposite of stupid easy.
Perhaps "stupid easy" was a certainly downplaying the task, but the current hosts do not have to necessarily part with the chakra willingly. Another Senju Grand Tree scheme is not exactly far-fetched.
It's less copying beast chakra than taking a portion of it and doing stuff with it.
-
Which ultimately just gets you minor shavings off the top, hardly enough to sprout the talents (which aren't all that unique except for 1-2 things), and once used its gone. You'd need either a good chunk or then a sentient split-off that can regenerate on its own, or ultimately all it'd be is just a brief one-time chakra boost.
-
Which ultimately just gets you minor shavings off the top, hardly enough to sprout the talents (which aren't all that unique except for 1-2 things), and once used its gone. You'd need either a good chunk or then a sentient split-off that can regenerate on its own, or ultimately all it'd be is just a brief one-time chakra boost.
Seems like it could be useful in the middle of a fight, no?
Psuedo-jinchurikii would be much easier to manage if they very quicklly lost their status too as well.
-
That's what I'm saying, the only ones that could without great pains happen right now wouldn't get more than their two minutes in the limelight and then its gone.
Only ways to get any longer lasting sort, to my current SL knowledge anyway, is either a former host dealing with me (which none of them have expressed desire to), or then somebody forcibly taking a sizable chunk from one of the current hosts, which in all honesty if you were capable doing then you might as well just take the full thing from them.
-
I still find it as a stupid concept. It just seems like the Tailed Beasts are no longer of use if you already have a piece of their chakra. It would be like: "Well I don't need all the tailed beasts to get ten tails, I just need ten chakra signatures from the current tailed beasts inside me."
And don't even get me started on the splitting of tailed beasts. That's another stupid design that Kishimoto created.
-
Stupid or not, bottom line is it hasn't been an issue and it isn't looking to ever really become one either, so in all honesty we can just leave it be.
-
Being stupid has never stopped anyone from doing anything here. Not going to start now.
-
So, we should ban the concept of psuedo jinchurikii altogether then, meaning that only hosts can use tailed beast chakra as special chakra and have the abilities of the beast? No latent carry-over for former hosts who previously mastered tails?
I'm not wholly sold on either concept, but just having no mention of it in the rules that are all about biju seems precarious.
-
Just have it like it has been. Former hosts who mastered their beasts keep their agreed upon passive ability. Sand, Lava, etc.
-
Just have it like it has been. Former hosts who mastered their beasts keep their agreed upon passive ability. Sand, Lava, etc.
No chakra of the tailed beast, but the passive ability?
That, doesn't make any sense to me.
-
How about this one?
We are tasked with the process of the matches and the smooth process of challenges and hunts.
Call it outside the venue of the committee and forget about it?
The original intent of the no tampering with the bijuu clause was...this one guy got a beast, the next day he gave some of the chakra to a friend...it was ridiculous. No training in the beast or nothing. Boom, he just was capable of manipulating the chakra of the beast to the point of being able to carve it up and give it away.
Saying you can't do that is good enough for me. But ex-hosts having been changed by their experience seems reasonable, as we have seen that with the silver and gold brothers.
Bah....this is self serving even though it makes sense to me. I will have to keep out of this one, despite Ace telling us we gotta participate in all discussions.
Like I said, I have 3 pseudo-jink characters.
-
Just have it like it has been. Former hosts who mastered their beasts keep their agreed upon passive ability. Sand, Lava, etc.
No chakra of the tailed beast, but the passive ability?
That, doesn't make any sense to me.
Well it's what happened to Gaara.
-
...yeah its better if we just leave it be. Trying to ban or limit it or whatever will just make it even more stupid and make us look like nazis.
-
Just have it like it has been. Former hosts who mastered their beasts keep their agreed upon passive ability. Sand, Lava, etc.
No chakra of the tailed beast, but the passive ability?
That, doesn't make any sense to me.
Well it's what happened to Gaara.
Well, it can be argued that Gaara had inherited magnet release from his father instead of the tailed beast (after all, that chakra magnetizes just about anything, not just iron-based materials in the series) but I digress.
... Like I said, I have 3 pseudo-jink characters.
Since you have the most experience out of the two of us, how exactly is that RP'd? How much power do these psuedos have?
...yeah its better if we just leave it be. Trying to ban or limit it or whatever will just make it even more stupid and make us look like nazis.
Minus the Holocaust you could call them the "Let's make Germany Great Again" committee, which doesn't sound as bad.
-
"In Gaara Hiden, Gaara is shown to have inherited the Magnet Release kekkei genkai from his father, which he avoids using in battle so that he can have it as a last resort that opponents won't know about. He can use his Magnet Release to increase the density of his chakra and sand, thereby strengthening his defences."
-http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gaara
--Ninjutsu
Honestly, I don't mind people's experience with the bijuu having altered them. I don't think it should be much of an "expert with the bijuu" because how can we gauge that? People will subjectively feel they've had enough expertise with them to claim they should be influenced enough. I say just let them. At the end of the day, they (may have) fought hard for this bijuu and we can at least leave them that parting gift.
-
I don't see how that quote was relevant, Rai. It didn't change to claim Gaara was actually using Jiton the whole time, it just says he has it and sometimes uses it to supplement his sand.
-
I don't see how that quote was relevant, Rai. It didn't change to claim Gaara was actually using Jiton the whole time, it just says he has it and sometimes uses it to supplement his sand.
Sorry, that was meant for Eric where he said:
"Well, it can be argued that Gaara had inherited magnet release from his father instead of the tailed beast (after all, that chakra magnetizes just about anything, not just iron-based materials in the series) but I digress."
Just reinforcing that he did in fact inherit magnet release from his father in that series. That's all.
-
Oh ok.
-
Well as Psuedos go, I always figured that Ginkaku and Kinkaku were special cases because they ate part of Kyuubi. Of course they were distantly related to the sage of the six paths, so it was rather hard to discern how much of their uniqueness is due to what.
The main things I can see from the manga, after 2 weeks of their feasting before being vomited up, are unusually large chakra pools and powers similar to the jinchuuriki. Kinkaku is said to be able to go V2 with 6 tails. His power is said to have been enough to nearly totally demolish the entire 4th division of the allied shinobi forces. And both brothers together nearly kill Tobirama Senju, who was no slacker. The second Raikage was there with Tobirama at the time but his fate is unknown. Since they were only declared disgraces for their deeds I can't imagine that A was killed in the event and probably escaped too.
I have never had them go all out on anyone, but that potential is there.
Hesitant to be OP, I have never had Yugito do things like bijuu bombs. She can use the blue flame, create a fire ball big enough to one shot large buildings, the nail growth ability seemed to be unrelated to being a host. I have had her have enhanced strength and endurance, but was hesitant to actually assume any cloak. Keeping a passive power with her already having a katon affinity, just to turn her flame blue...well, so what?
Basically I think the two cases here are significantly different. I don't think ex-hosts would be as powerful as the brother have been shown to be in the manga. I am not comfortable with ex-hosts manifesting cloaks...Gaara never did.
-
... Basically I think the two cases here are significantly different. I don't think ex-hosts would be as powerful as the brother have been shown to be in the manga. I am not comfortable with ex-hosts manifesting cloaks...Gaara never did.
While I agree with your first sentence, I have to point out that Gaara never really had a "biju cloak" in the same sense as all the other jinchurikii. His was pretty much taking on the sand and becoming a mini-shukaku until he went full shukaku, the sand cloak resembling shukaku something he theoretically should have still been able to create since he could still manipulate sand.
-
I would say NO to Psuedo-Jinks but if you have masted your bijuu before removal, you can keep its passive abilities (sand, lava, ink, etc.).