Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Rusaku on February 11, 2016, 01:47:19 AM
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So I have been thinking about this for a while now, and I feel like it needs to be addressed.
When we gave Sage mode a specific multiplier for it’s enhancements, why did we not do the same for the other various techniques that bolster one’s ability?
Some examples include the 8 gates, Tailed beast enhancements, and various other chakra modes that people have started putting together in order to make themselves the “Fastest” or the “Strongest” Kids on the playground.
I suggest we sit down and give these techniques a multiplier, just so we can have a more firm understanding of how fast or strong we actually are when compared to others using similarly natured boosts.
For those who would claim this to not be a relevant topic, we can look no farther than the Madara vs Shadow debacle. Their argument exemplifies the need to sit down and assign actual numbers so we may easily assess a situation opposed to giving half baked summations.
My suggestions are very rough draft, and I am welcome to suggestions that would appease the masses.
Gates: (Speed/Strength only)
- First: x2
- Second: No boost, limited healing qualities
- Third: x2.5
- Fourth: x3
- Fifth: x3.5
- Sixth: x4
- 7th: x4.5
- 8th: x100+
Obviously this is a very rough estimation, but my logic is to maintain a bit of reason and fairness. We cannot exactly measure how much faster/Stronger Lee or Guy got without exhausting levels of research on par with that of some Screwattack videos, thus this is a simple alternative that would be easy to apply and remember for the layman.
Tailed beast enhancements. (Applies to Strength, Speed, and Chakra based abilities)
- Initial form: x.5
- First tail: x2
- Second tail: x2.5
- Third tail: x3.5
- 4th tail: x5
- 5th tail: x6
- Sixth tail: x6.5
- Seventh tail: x7
- Eighth tail: x7.5
- Ninth tail (I.e Tailed beast cloak): x10
Now, I expect more arguments here than in gates, and that’s fine. My thought process is that there were obviously huge advancements in ability when looking at initial form - 4th tail, thus the more rapid expansion of power opposed to the 6th - 8th. When observing a Jink who utilized those forms without going into a full on transformation, it appeared that they were roughly similar to previous transformation in terms of how they were artistically portrayed. I think Killer Bee was the only one to use anything more than like...6 tails or something and that was in the fight with Kisame. During that fight, I only saw a mild enhancement of his power when compared to how he used only a 1 or two tailed form while fighting taka. So, I shot for that kind of scaling until the 9 tails cloak, which obviously gave some seriously ridiculous enhancements. I chose ten as to not break the system completely, but obviously this is very open for discussion.
EDIT: I do believe that the enhancements to one's chakra based abilities should be altered and discussed, because obviously we can't have a Chibaku tensei or some other massive attack increased 7 times over if they don that particular form.
Nature based Chakra Modes:
- 5x enhancement. (Varies between chakra natures)
Now, obviously it’s kinda hard to put a number on these for a simple reason: everyone applies them differently. While the Raiton cloak makes you ridiculously fast, I think it’s the fire chakra mode that focuses solely on offensive and does not bolster your physical stats. Please don’t quote me on that, i’m merely going off what I remember off the top of my head. I would like the full cooperation of the community on this particular category.
So, go ahead and leave feedback based on what you think should be the value of each category. If I missed anything that needs focus, please leave the technique and what you believe the values should be so we may work off of that.
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We can't group all of it into one as a whole.
"Tailed beast enhancements. (Applies to Strength, Speed, and Chakra based abilities)"
x10 in cloak mode
So they get their bijuu chakra + their chakra and then x10 on top of that? .-.
I mean currently people are claiming limitless chakra, but if that gets passed they could then do it without restraint.
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We can't group all of it into one as a whole.
"Tailed beast enhancements. (Applies to Strength, Speed, and Chakra based abilities)"
x10 in cloak mode
So they get their bijuu chakra + their chakra and then x10 on top of that? .-.
I mean currently people are claiming limitless chakra, but if that gets passed they could then do it without restraint.
Uhh, no?
The 10x is how much their strength and speed are enhanced, as well as their techniques potency. Though as I added in the Edit, we need to create different numbers for the technique enhancement for obvious reasons.
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If I were to think of enhancements based on bijuu, I would be more inclined to use stages rather than tail number. I still do not agree that more tails means more power. I feel the bijuu were created from equal division of the ten tails.
So...more along the lines of what these transformation give, rather than tail emergence.
Initial Jinchūriki Form
Version 1 Cloak
partial transformations
Version 2 Cloak
Tailed Beast Mode
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If I were to think of enhancements based on bijuu, I would be more inclined to use stages rather than tail number. I still do not agree that more tails means more power. I feel the bijuu were created from equal division of the ten tails.
So...more along the lines of what these transformation give, rather than tail emergence.
Initial Jinchūriki Form
Version 1 Cloak
partial transformations
Version 2 Cloak
Tailed Beast Mode
Well that's not true to be blunt. Kurama with half his chakra was obviously the most powerful beast by far, so an even split 10 ways is not possible.
Though the version 2 transformation should be taken into account, yes.
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While kurama obviously has more chakra than the rest. (It's a fact. There's no sense in arguing it) Should we not 'nerf' him in a sense so that all bijuu give equal amount of 'boost'
Initial Jinchūriki Form
Version 1 Cloak
partial transformations
Version 2 Cloak
Tailed Beast Mode
^ That does make it much simpler than tail by tail.
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While kurama obviously has more chakra than the rest. (It's a fact. There's no sense in arguing it) Should we not 'nerf' him in a sense so that all bijuu give equal amount of 'boost'
Initial Jinchūriki Form
Version 1 Cloak
partial transformations
Version 2 Cloak
Tailed Beast Mode
^ That does make it much simpler than tail by tail.
Well sure it would make it a hell of a lot simpler, but what would be the point of ever using tailed transformations if they add nothing to your overall ability? That would also kinda defeat the point of training to master tails. Albeit most people just wait the few weeks then claim mastery over the beast as a whole.
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They add more. But since kurama has more tails that person gets more powerups? Not fair. The way Kayenta did it makes it so that every bijuu holder gets the same powerups.
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They add more. But since kurama has more tails that person gets more powerups? Not fair. The way Kayenta did it makes it so that every bijuu holder gets the same powerups.
True it's not fair, but it makes sense. Kurama is the most powerful beast by a large margin while also the most sought after. It's like the heavyweight title belt compared to the intercontinental belt. They are both prestigious, but one is obviously better than the other.
Though, I should inquire a bit more on this first. Are we suggesting we Nerf Kurama? Or are we just limiting the number of transformations he has?
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Well if this is to be put into play, this number system, I think he needs a nerf. Maybe keep him stronger, but not as strong as you suggest he should be.
Maybe add some power over the others, but all of this will require a lot of....unseen complications. Which is why I think making them all the same would be the best move here.
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Well if this is to be put into play, this number system, I think he needs a nerf. Maybe keep him stronger, but not as strong as you suggest he should be.
Maybe add some power over the others, but all of this will require a lot of....unseen complications. Which is why I think making them all the same would be the best move here.
I can agree that there will be complications, but that's why I wanted to work things out before we put anything into play.
If there is no other option, I could see nerfing Kurama. He literally breaks the game when it comes to the rest of the player base. Though we should probably hear from other people as well before we go down that route.
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All the things bijuu are being handled in our secret new rules cabal. So don't worry about needing any of the bijuu or things like that it is all being discussed.
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*rejected to join the club invite from Ace cause it was too mainstream*
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If the Biju portion can be handled over there, then we can focus on gates and Chakra armors here? They still beend to be agreed upon as well.
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The only problem I have with this proposed set-up is that chakra-nature based modes are treated with x5 multiplier which I think is outrageous, considering the math one the usage of Seventh Gate is a 4.5 multiplier. The numbers themselves could use a bit of tweaking and it would help to list every possible chakra nature mode; that way we can correlate the difference in power amongst them. (This way we can get a approximate number for each chakra mode.)
Other then that just appreciate that someone went out of their day to propose come sort of 'numbers chart' for these power-ups. :D
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To be blunt the system is a fail.
There is no way to apply such a system in SL logic.
In order to do so youd have to look at everybody being on equal terms as far as attributes go. People will argue well my natural speed is faster than yours so blah blah blah. Well I trained ex amount so blah blah blah.
A multiply system only works when you have something to multiply.
Say Bocc and Uetto where fighting. Bocc uses lightening release which grant a x3, for example. Uetto uses a gate which grants x1.5. I could argue that that due to Uetto's natural and highly trained speed abilities that my x1.5 enhance makes me faster than his x3 enhance. And this could be true if Uetto actually is a lot faster than him regularly.
Let's say we used attribute points here at SL then the system would work because we would have something to do the math with.
Normal Speeds=
Uetto- 19/20
Bocc-10/20
Enhanced Speeds=
Uetto-
19+(19x1.5)
47.5
Bocc-
10+(10x3)
40.0
Speed Winner= Uetto
Without these numbers to figure in the system just falls apart by the opinion of who is naturally faster. Its the same argument as now just asked in a different way. Thus nothing has been resolved.
Now in terms of jutsu this x(whatever) system kinda works. Because we have a thing called jutsu ranks. Its commonly known how strong the jutsu being used is most of the time.
For example. We know that is I use a d rank fireball jutsu to counter another fireball jutsu at c rank I'm probably gonna have a bad day. However I use a x3 drank jutsu to counter with it would probably rise in rank strength to brank or so. Thus making it a successful counter.
Of course all jutsu work different and this must be taken into consideration when analising the two jutsu but I think the 'jiff' of it is easy to understand.
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Also the a+(ab) math equation is the proper one to use here not a(n) a•b one.
For the simple reason of the system calling for x.5 or x1 it does not cause a decrease or stall.
Regardless if you decided to just use >1.
Because it is just better math. We must always assume there could be a ≤1.
Using a x.5 as example with 5 attribute points:
a+(a•b)= 5+(5•.5)=7.5 {a rise in attribute}
a•b=5•.5=2.5 {a decline in attribute}
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To be blunt the system is a fail.
There is no way to apply such a system in SL logic.
In order to do so youd have to look at everybody being on equal terms as far as attributes go. People will argue well my natural speed is faster than yours so blah blah blah. Well I trained ex amount so blah blah blah.
A multiply system only works when you have something to multiply.
Say Bocc and Uetto where fighting. Bocc uses lightening release which grant a x3, for example. Uetto uses a gate which grants x1.5. I could argue that that due to Uetto's natural and highly trained speed abilities that my x1.5 enhance makes me faster than his x3 enhance. And this could be true if Uetto actually is a lot faster than him regularly.
Let's say we used attribute points here at SL then the system would work because we would have something to do the math with.
Normal Speeds=
Uetto- 19/20
Bocc-10/20
Enhanced Speeds=
Uetto-
19+(19x1.5)
47.5
Bocc-
10+(10x3)
40.0
Speed Winner= Uetto
Without these numbers to figure in the system just falls apart by the opinion of who is naturally faster. Its the same argument as now just asked in a different way. Thus nothing has been resolved.
Now in terms of jutsu this x(whatever) system kinda works. Because we have a thing called jutsu ranks. Its commonly known how strong the jutsu being used is most of the time.
For example. We know that is I use a d rank fireball jutsu to counter another fireball jutsu at c rank I'm probably gonna have a bad day. However I use a x3 drank jutsu to counter with it would probably rise in rank strength to brank or so. Thus making it a successful counter.
Of course all jutsu work different and this must be taken into consideration when analyzing the two jutsu but I think the 'jiff' of it is easy to understand.
Ok you say it's a fail and could never work without giving numbers to each player for every stat, yet Sage mode seems to work swimmingly? I have yet to see any arguments based around how that multiplier works, but here it's just impossible to apply. Lel, ight homie. Wanna provide some kind of alternative then? Obviously gates and chakra armor have no effect on techniques whatsoever, only tailed beast chakra and sage mode does, and apparently tails beast stuff is handled elsewhere. So what? We just kinda guess who is faster when people start building stacks? Who's faster if I use Raiton chakra mode, Sage mode and Tailed beast mode compared to 7th gate and Raiton chakra mode?
Truth be told, I 100% consider everyone to be the same when entering into a zone fight. Unless you can prove to me through some form of eye witness account or tangible Rp's that you have trained something to the point of being considered a cut above even the gods that walk among us, then we are the same. The only time I take into consideration a person's talent is with techniques, because everyone has a niche. Uzumaki have sealing, Bocc has fire, Kirk had Mokuton and other stuffs. Those are things we just understand. Stats on the other hand are very...disingenuous. SL is not a perfect system, and never will be. All we can do is try to make it better.
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All the things bijuu are being handled in our secret new rules cabal. So don't worry about needing any of the bijuu or things like that it is all being discussed.
I do not think how much power the beast gives you (especially in a numerical sense) is being discusssed at all at the moment.
Personally, as Uetto said, if you're going to have multipliers, you need to multiply them by something else in order for the whole shabang to work. If individual number stats is too forumy for most people and the math more work than people want to put in, I don't see the logic in trying to quantify the power-ups while the discussion of quantifying player characters is not up for debate at the same time.
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Yes, guessing/going with the flow is in fact how it goes, and how it should go. Like wtf man, you try pull something like this then you effectively kill the point of fighting, the person with more stacks will just win no matter what anyway so there's no point to even try, all they have to do is "I win because numbers".
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Now this is something worth talking about. A proper analysis needs both, Quantitative and Qualitative data. And for us to be keeping track of such during out turns, would prevent from any *coughs* ahem, excuse my cussing, "ass-pulls".
I didn't quite read everyone's response but the initial opening so I'll have to get back on my own whacky ideas. Otherwise, its a good point to be made since most of what we've been following is just hearsay from the most credible source. Add levels and modifiers to chakra capacity to be able to tell just how much someone can dish out before they need to call it a day. As well as how taxing specific techniques may be under the different circumstances. We of course all zone differently, yet the 'calculations' would help keep the varying styles on track in the sense of legitimacy.
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If simply always rped it as it increases your stuff rather simple really.
Is it really that hard to compromise on such things with each other?
You want a suggestion? Here you go... Don't stack shit to the moon and back and don't accept rp from those who do. Either use one or the other.
Its all pretty simple. Just get back to rping and having fun instead of fussing and concentrating on petty stuff.
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Yes, guessing/going with the flow is in fact how it goes, and how it should go. Like wtf man, you try pull something like this then you effectively kill the point of fighting, the person with more stacks will just win no matter what anyway so there's no point to even try, all they have to do is "I win because numbers".
Exactly. Rp talent and skill will be lost because my status stack better than yours do. No more strategy or having to plan ten jutsu ahead for a trap outcome. Zoning and fighting would become pointless.
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Yes, guessing/going with the flow is in fact how it goes, and how it should go. Like wtf man, you try pull something like this then you effectively kill the point of fighting, the person with more stacks will just win no matter what anyway so there's no point to even try, all they have to do is "I win because numbers".
Exactly. Rp talent and skill will be lost because my status stack better than yours do. No more strategy or having to plan ten jutsu ahead for a trap outcome. Zoning and fighting would become pointless.
Before long we will see auto-hits as legit things cause someone stack equal up to high to be logic to be able to dodge so it is unable to be avoided. The very definition of auto-hit.
Here goes one for you stacking should be considered god-mod.
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I still have to say that the manga is broke.
and by the tail logic, shukaku is not even gate worthy. and that is just not so.
If Kyuubi is so powerful, and i know that he is, then how does anyone ever beat his host?
It is an interesting notion. I do like numbers, but as Warren says, they are not permitting the flexibility which comes with skill and creativity of strategy. Not every situation can a player just bull their way through.
I would like to see it worked on, just for the sake of curiosity. I do not think it is a total waste of time doomed to failure and is worth exploring.
ah there goes the snow plow down the road again. so noisy.
Something to keep in mind, once you start quantifying things, then everything will have to be. All jutsu, armor, weapons, tools...and an expense account kept.
Ex: I get to use 27 chakra points, and once they are gone I fall into a stupor or if I go beyond that die due to chakra depletion. SO my S rank jutsu cost 10, my A cost 8, the B are 6, C 4, D2, E1. any combo adds up to 27, I am done. Pretend I have to have 4 to sustain life...my total pool is 31.
And that is just usage of chakra.
Then you have damage, damage reduction items and jutsu to account for and all manner of....well just go see a DnD manual. Its quite convoluted when you start assigning number values to RP.
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While kurama obviously has more chakra than the rest. (It's a fact. There's no sense in arguing it) Should we not 'nerf' him in a sense so that all bijuu give equal amount of 'boost'
Initial Jinchūriki Form
Version 1 Cloak
partial transformations
Version 2 Cloak
Tailed Beast Mode
^ That does make it much simpler than tail by tail.
I agree with this. It's simple and fair. Not everything we do on SL even reflects properly from Naruto anyway.
Gates: (Speed/Strength only)
- First: x2
- Second: No boost, limited healing qualities
- Third: x2.5
- Fourth: x3
- Fifth: x3.5
- Sixth: x4
- 7th: x4.5
- 8th: x100+
Tailed beast enhancements. (Applies to Strength, Speed, and Chakra based abilities)
- Initial form: x.5
- First tail: x2
- Second tail: x2.5
- Third tail: x3.5
- 4th tail: x5
- 5th tail: x6
- Sixth tail: x6.5
- Seventh tail: x7
- Eighth tail: x7.5
- Ninth tail (I.e Tailed beast cloak): x10
Nature based Chakra Modes:
- 5x enhancement. (Varies between chakra natures)
Plus, it doesn't make sense how Tails 4 to 8 gets a bigger boost than Gate 7. >.>
Same with the Nature-based Chakra Mode.
Also, I thought we were in agreement that tailed beast chakra does not enhance your ninjutsu. http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8809.15.html
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Is this not why the SL Forums exists? Clearly RP exists of some kind on these boards as those who do test out whatever methods they might. Such is an example for the Hunters Guild, such can be an example for what is being proposed here. At least, it is being proposed instead of just implemented in-game which would receive far worse reactions from the same people. If it ain't your cup of tea I guess just move one. But the entire concept can be adjusted and fixed to a standard liking that we could follow. I'm not advocating a lol-numbers to prove something, more so the numbers to keep track of things. As explained by Kay,
Something to keep in mind, once you start quantifying things, then everything will have to be. All jutsu, armor, weapons, tools...and an expense account kept.
Ex: I get to use 27 chakra points, and once they are gone I fall into a stupor or if I go beyond that die due to chakra depletion. SO my S rank jutsu cost 10, my A cost 8, the B are 6, C 4, D2, E1. any combo adds up to 27, I am done. Pretend I have to have 4 to sustain life...my total pool is 31.
minor calculations like such would be nice to see during zones so people don't go beyond the extraordinary dishing out S ranked moves one after the other without a sweat. Resiliency is nice to see as well, followed with a balancing of skills. Say one has a high chakra pool but trade's off overall stamina or something along those lines. This way it could prevent one from just having 999,999,999 in any category. Otherwise I don't think chakra pools around the 30's would suffice with the norms of SL these days. Besides everyone wants to claim Uzumaki or even Senju blood just to be able to lol-claim lots of chakra supply. >>; I mean seriously you mutts.
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Attempting to quantify into numbers the power of enhancement of the Tailed Beasts is only asking for various other things to be quantified as well.
Like Perfect Susanoo, that simply chops through two mountains just by drawing it's sword.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-589-page-8.html
Some might even take Madara's words as fact in saying that the power of the Tailed Beasts pales in comparison to it.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-589-page-10.html
And then there's the fact that Madara combines his Susanoo with Kurama
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-622-page-4.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-622-page-6.html
Naruto and Sasuke do this too, and completely wipe through Sage of Six Paths Obito with it
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-652-page-18.html
There's also the fact that Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands was able to ward-off multiple Tailed Beast Balls fired-off by Susanoo-enhanced Kurama
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-627-page-6.html
Those with the Six Paths Chakra and Six Paths Sage Chakra will also want the quantification treatment
So what's my overall power multiplier like with my stats?
Six Paths Sage Chakra + Perfect Susanoo Sage Mode = x50?
Takehaya Susanoo (Six Paths Sage Chakra + Perfect Susanoo + Six Paths Sage Chakra-enhanced Wood Release: Wood Human Technique) = x100?
I think we should accept that Sage Mode > normal mode, since it's stated to be a different dimension of power. This is an even stronger point when it comes to the fact that only those that perform Senjutsu could actually hurt Sage of Six Paths Obito and Madara. (Six Paths Chakra in Sasuke's case allowed him to hurt Madara too.)
Just keep using a bit of intuition and logic to say what is stronger than something else, because some of us are good at slapping things together to make an even bigger multiplier for ourselves. Otherwise literally kicking someone to the moon is within the realm of possibility.
(http://puu.sh/n3KZr/8d0859d881.gif)
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Well, I went through and read this topic and wanted to say my mind on the subject.
The hardest thing about 'boosters' in this game is that you're trying to quantify some qualitative data. It's like you're saying that your character is blue, but when you add a power-up, he becomes 10 time more blue. It doesn't really make much sense. This has been discussed earlier by a few people, and has been discussed in previous topics as well.
If we were to actually add stats to the game, it would cause a great strive between people who would advocate for numbers and those who wouldn't. Kind of like there was when the whole tailed beast OOC/IC thing happened. As Warren explained, it would be extremely insane to actually apply numbers to every little thing. Not only that, but there'd also be the lot of people complaining that they should have all the max level stuff because reasons.
In the end, I believe this should all fall into the hands of the player to decide what each boost does. I'll use my character Becquerel as an example. I know that he's rather fast normally, able to maintain sprinting speeds indefinitely. But if I were to use his boosters, he'd basically become faster than the eye can see (which can be bad, because even his eyes can't see what he's boosting towards at these speeds) which puts him at kind of a "flash-step"/"Soru"/InsertFastAnimeMoveHere level. He is also extremely strong, able to leap great bounds and lift many tons with ease, but this too can be helped through the use of the boosters to basically make any strike that lands lethal.
The reason why I say this is because even though Becquerel on paper is an extremely powerful being, I make sure to keep him in check and not abuse that ability. I know it's not fun if people are always going against an unbeatable foe, and personally, it's not fun to always win. I almost never go for lethal attacks even though, in theory, Becquerel could 'GG no re' a lot of people very easily. There's no fun in that.
So, I know I kind of went off tangent there...But for the people that want to use numbers, by all means go ahead and use them. But, at the same time, you shouldn't expect people to conform to your number rules if they don't want to. It's a nice thing to have if you and your fellow ninja decide to go with numbers, that way you can kind of make sense of stuff.
And I agree with Kayenta and Kage on the fact that the manga was pretty crazy when it came to power. When the manga started, it was impressive for Zabuza to be swinging around that giant sword. Then towards the end, Naruto was busting through meteors like there was no issue. So it's okay if you make your character powerful, but they should still be touchable.
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yes, touching is good.
As for numbers. I think another thing to consider is the issue of percentile drainage of one's chakra pool.
say we all agree that summoning a bijuu uses 20% of my chakra. And for an opponent to potentially dispel my controlling genjutsu over it, it costs them 20% of their chakra.
sounds fair? cost the same to use as to cancel it, right?
Well, 20% of my chakra pool could be a larger amount than 20% of your chakra pool, yes? So in the end, it does not cost the same to start or dispel the same technique.
Let's put some BS numbers based on nothing into the mix as an example:
Kay's pool = 100 points
Your pool = 80 points.
Kay's summons cost: 20% of 100 = 20 points.
Your dispelling cost: 20% of 80 = 16 points.
Well wow. I have more chakra than you but it costs me more points to do the same tech?
hrm...
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I'm just confused on how giving Sage mode a multiplier was a perfectly acceptable notion, that everyone agreed on and has yet to cause problem, but when I suggest putting numbers on techniques that are spammed just as often, it's a fail system that would never work, once again despite the fact that it's ALREADY working with sage mode. It makes no sense. Yes, I see where issues can arise, but for some reason they have not with sage mode, so why would they arise here?
If you guys are absolutely dead set on denying this for...some reason(?) then cool go ahead. I asked right from the start for community feedback, and apparently this is what the community has to say xD
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People barely enjoy fights, RP, and the such on SL how things are as of now >>
Adding numbers and math is only going to increase the number of people who don't like public RP/fights, and make people who already don't like it hate it more D:
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>> But at the same time, I mean, I see what Rusaku is wanting to do. Like, Sage Mode is 3x(?) your normal stats. I can understand wanting to do the same when it comes to everything else, so people can't claim too much with power ups but... Like... >> It's easy to remember Sage Mode = 3xEverything. If you add a whole list, people will be forced to come here and look every time they are fighting or using a buff e.e;
Which would only make fights longer, and do they really need to be longer? XD
But really. It's not a bad idea... But I dun think it's a good idea right now, given SL's fragile state.
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In other words sage mode itself is a perfect example of why this won't work. No offense to sages but almost every single one of them already does the whole 'senjutsu so I win' shtick, often regardless of what you do. This would just multiply the problem exponentially.
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The Sage Mode 3x multiplier applies to how much stronger normal jutsu would be under the influence of being fueled by Senjutsu Chakra, as opposed to normal Chakra. This is actually a lower multiplier than the original 5x that was proposed.
But yeah, Senjutsu is stated to be another dimension of power, exceeding that of regular chakra. So it's really no surprise if Senjutsu beats out Ninjutsu at all. That's just another part of the lore that people have to deal with. Just like how if you're born into one of five special clans that descended from aliens, you've got a one-up in various different forms. And it's even more-so if you're a hybrid or have gone through blood transfusions to gain some of their passive perks.
Just because it's unfair that a regular shinobi has to go toe-to-toe against a more experienced one who sports the Sharingan, doesn't mean that the latter has to make things fair and close their eyes while tying a hand behind their back.
Quantified stats in the form of numbers may seem like a good idea, but not for SL. I can guarantee that you'll only make the strong even stronger, and the weak even weaker.
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first of all, I was not aware that Sage mode had been quantified. So...
Secondly, I am not saying it won't work. I am saying it is a ton of work. You might want to check out a Naruto D20 system, instead of reinventing the wheel. I am not really happy with that system as it stands either because it is quite limiting when it comes to creativity.
Certainly in that system though there are many many buffs that simply do not stack upon each other. You can only take a buff to certain things at certain times, not have them running all together for a great bit 50x multiplier.
If you are going to figure this thing out, then start posting more ideas about how it might work. let's see the math. Let's see how it might work. then balances and checks to see what makes sense.
Oh wow...this buff actually makes you better than being a host. well that makes no sense.
then correct it.
It is very frustrating to be put into a situation where all the argument a person has is:
Well I had my force shield up. oh yeah? well I had my force field piercing sword in play. oh yeah? well I had my force field piercing proof long johns on under my force shield. Really? well I charged my force field piercing sword with energy that defeats your force field piercing proof long johns. Oh yeah? Well i bathed with my special anti- sword energy infused force field pericing proof long johns soap that cannot be beat!
Well you never said you put that soap on so i don't believe you. Well, duh. I thought the whole point of being a ninja was to do things in secret. >.>
While I love being creative and not being pinned down to a joy killing strict sense of fighting. While I certainly don't want to walk into the zones, see a list of someones buffs, and just feel likesaying, "Oh I walked into the zones and died. Why? well cause you can't look upon the face of God and live."
I sure would like to be able to point to something and say, "Well...I am stronger than you so at the very least if I slap you it ought to hurt!" and we all have faced people who will deny you have even that much ability over them and their actions. Kay is no weak creature, and yet...everyone around is so much stronger?
yeah...
TripleBlitz one day, when i asked him to tell me what was wrong with my zoning and why I never won, he said, "it's the people you play with."
hard truths. Cause you are the people I play with. But here it is. and how do we change that? I hear you laughing now. I don't see change going in the positive direction, but I still hope and long for it.
I want you to try one more time. I want you to to write this up and explain it to me. I want to be in on the alpha testing and see if it will work.
oh please...at least then we could point to it later and say, "Ok...it don't work"
but until we have really tried...its just opinion with no facts behind it.
I would wish for a system that relies on creativity first, then could fall back on stats if required.
--> and Kage, all chakra users are descended from the aliens. That is why we can use it.
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Realistically, it's too late.
These ideas are good for a board that's starting out, where rules or more accurately habits have not already been formed.
I think that trying to make this a numbers game is only going to make everyone more inclined to try and stack, and I'm pretty sure it was Kirk and a few others saying that would take all point out of clever fighting, tricks, and unique ideas.
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While I love being creative and not being pinned down to a joy killing strict sense of fighting. While I certainly don't want to walk into the zones, see a list of someones buffs, and just feel likesaying, "Oh I walked into the zones and died. Why? well cause you can't look upon the face of God and live."
The most baffling thing about this statement is that you all continue to look.
I haven't really read every post in this thread, but I've spoken to the OP about it in the past. While I would love for us to quantify how insignificant a majority of this community is, I'd much prefer relying on the ignorance of my opponents to these techniques and continue...
(http://www.stupidedia.org/images/3/3c/Roflcopter2.gif)
(In case you think I'm actually being serious about most of this, refer to the picture above)
In all seriousness, I think this system has it's potential benefits. A lot of people don't understand just quickly some of these techniques speed up the user. Your name could be J.K Rowling and still you couldn't write a post well enough to explain that it simply isn't possible to keep up with what your less informed opponent designated to be a suitable defense to whatever buff you've activated.
In the most basic form, this is a way to end all stupid arguments that arise when people think their C-Rank custom will indefinitely keep up with my "Legendary Technique".
(again refer to picture above)