Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Ѕhadow on May 31, 2015, 02:40:46 AM
-
It was brought to attention that Amegakure has a lot of sentient susanoo OP clones as a defense. Personally I think it's over the line and needs to be nerfed.
The link in which it was debated a little is here:
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8441.msg221103.html#new
READ IT BEFORE POSTING HERE PLEASE.
Anywho this will further debate on what to do. Is it allowed, etc. Like I said, my personal opinion, is no. Please; don't digress.
Also, reading material: (From Eric)
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Amegakure#Village_Defenses
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Susanoo_Sage_Mode
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art:_Susanoo_Clone
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art%3A_Inorganic_Reincarnation?_ga=1.148278839.1406565761.1419795001
-
I have already stated my opinion on the matter. But, if Kage is still going to use it, I really think there should be some handicap to it. I think a good work-around to it would be basically the Susanoos could all be there, but be basically in standby mode. When/If he wants to use them, he'd have to enter something like the Metagross that Nagato used to hang around in and basically become a vegetable in order to control all of these things at the same time.
-
As it stands, looking over all of the available information on what these defenses include, I would say void. As I previously stated, the idea is very cool, but honestly it's just too much. xD 25 sage mode, damn near sentient, Susanoo? Nahhhhhh
-
It was brought to attention that Amegakure has a lot of sentient susanoo OP clones as a defense. Personally I think it's over the line and needs to be nerfed.
The link in which it was debated a little is here:
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8441.msg221103.html#new
READ IT BEFORE POSTING HERE PLEASE.
Anywho this will further debate on what to do. Is it allowed, etc. Like I said, my personal opinion, is no. Please; don't digress.
Wouldn't it be better to start with first the bio descriptions that may be relevent, and then go on to the divergence in the other thread?
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Amegakure#Village_Defenses
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Susanoo_Sage_Mode
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art:_Susanoo_Clone
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art%3A_Inorganic_Reincarnation?_ga=1.148278839.1406565761.1419795001
I'm still trying to fit it all together, as it has been awhile since I've poured over Ame's village defenses and such. However, the above resources will likely be very helpful for others trying to form an opinion on the matter.
-
It shouldn't be voided because of its extremes. I kinda get it, he chose the path of pretty much 'perfecting' the susanoo by going through Susanoo Sage Mode and what not, cool concept. I like custom techniques over the regular ones if anything! Just the way Susanoo was setup to be in the series I normally thought a person had a single susanoo and that Madara was only able to do such given he was an edo and then going god mode on everyone afterwards. I'm not saying multiple susanoo would technically be impossible but would need incredible focus and chakra control in order to operate and maintain. Must be painful to operate more than one, no doubt but surely a ninja could utilize their energies to support such a tactic as shown how Nagato powered Ame's defense.
Thats about all I gots to say with it. In a similar fashion of how Nagato had to be forced with being immobile and crippled in order to maintain his Paths running throughout Ame and protecting it; these susanoo could be something similar! Free roaming and on their own susanoo is quite the force, could take over the world pretty much! The susanoo clones easily defeated the 5 great nation's kages in the series. >>; Gotta be some price to pay for such a tremendous defense but with those alone Ame definitely has a good defense system as should every village by now. Unless you are welcoming attackers to just constantly invade and destroy!
-
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Takama_no_Hara
That alone makes these susano'o somewhat OP in my opinion. According to the wikia, there are 24 of these janks ready to fight at will. Reducing that number to 4 would probably be more reasonable considering the raw strength and durability of each susano'o.
Their sentience, and added defenses on top of senjutsu enhancements are also rather top tier. I'm not going to nitpick though, the number of them and their individual strength is just a tad much imho.
-
Just to add onto the whole issue with the Takama no Hara thing. Basically, it gives the Susanoo an immunity to anything that's not 'Naruto'. But, it's a technique that isn't from 'Naruto' in the first place. Would it cause some kind of paradox where it grants an immunity to itself thus nullifying the benefit from the takama no hara?
That's a joke, in case people can't grasp it. I know jokes are hard to get through a textual medium. But basically, it's "I'm going to create an original technique that makes this thing immune to 'original' techniques."
-
Like I said before in the other thread, nobody has had a problem with this until recently, when people are trying to hunt down a Tailed Beast in my village. Keito and even Shadow himself have entered my village without a hitch from them. But attacking and fleeing became a different story.
Now let me expand on the sentience part. The fact that they're an advanced clone jutsu means that there are some liberties one can take, as well as using Inorganic Reincarnation on them. Being a clone jutsu, they have knowledge and some of my will in them already. Having the second jutsu applied to them, means that they are a further extension of my will and can act independently.
After reading the replies in this thread, I can see what people are really the most concerned about. Whether or not they'll actually get their battle. Well so long as you don't screw up by attacking the village in general and angering the guards within them before going about with your search and hunt, then sure you will. To expand upon my opening statement though, Shadow had no problem with them at all in his time within the village. But he left via Hiraishin for some reason or another. And Keito only had a problem with them after he did a hit-and-run on the village. Heck, during that time, TWO Jinchuriki were coming straight for them. That's like, their battles for the Tailed Beasts coming right to them. But nah, both of them went off somewhere else.
To make things short, you are getting your battles, so long as you don't screw up and get the entire village's attention. Hunters are supposed to be sneaky when trying to infiltrate a village. Even Itachi and Kisame were pretty sneaky while they were in Konoha.
Though you also have to remember that by entering the village, you are accepting the things occurring within it. Please look a bit more into all the details of acceptance and voiding in RP before declaring "void" immediately. But to make people feel better, I'll tone the clones down to twelve instead of twenty-four. Though I made these while keeping in mind that more people with village-destroying powers are popping up. And even more-so with resets becoming a less-credible way of people having their character's advancements being held back behind a certain speed limit in RP. The easiest way for someone to hunt down a Tailed Beast is to completely level a village, wait a week for the beast to respawn, and then level anything else in the way. It sounds ridiculous, but it's effective and some would have their way with it if they wanted to.
-
Like I said before in the other thread, nobody has had a problem with this until recently, when people are trying to hunt down a Tailed Beast in my village. Keito and even Shadow himself have entered my village without a hitch from them. But attacking and fleeing became a different story.
Now let me expand on the sentience part. The fact that they're an advanced clone jutsu means that there are some liberties one can take, as well as using Inorganic Reincarnation on them. Being a clone jutsu, they have knowledge and some of my will in them already. Having the second jutsu applied to them, means that they are a further extension of my will and can act independently.
After reading the replies in this thread, I can see what people are really the most concerned about. Whether or not they'll actually get their battle. Well so long as you don't screw up by attacking the village in general and angering the guards within them before going about with your search and hunt, then sure you will. To expand upon my opening statement though, Shadow had no problem with them at all in his time within the village. But he left via Hiraishin for some reason or another. And Keito only had a problem with them after he did a hit-and-run on the village. Heck, during that time, TWO Jinchuriki were coming straight for them. That's like, their battles for the Tailed Beasts coming right to them. But nah, both of them went off somewhere else.
To make things short, you are getting your battles, so long as you don't screw up and get the entire village's attention. Hunters are supposed to be sneaky when trying to infiltrate a village. Even Itachi and Kisame were pretty sneaky while they were in Konoha.
Though you also have to remember that by entering the village, you are accepting the things occurring within it. Please look a bit more into all the details of acceptance and voiding in RP before declaring "void" immediately. But to make people feel better, I'll tone the clones down to twelve instead of twenty-four. Though I made these while keeping in mind that more people with village-destroying powers are popping up. And even more-so with resets becoming a less-credible way of people having their character's advancements being held back behind a certain speed limit in RP. The easiest way for someone to hunt down a Tailed Beast is to completely level a village, wait a week for the beast to respawn, and then level anything else in the way. It sounds ridiculous, but it's effective and some would have their way with it if they wanted to.
At that time I didn't know you had 24 much less that they were so op'ed. 4 normal susanoo clones eating off your own chakra? Sure I'm down with that. Like I said, I didn't know the extent of their OP until recently.
I left cause Keito stirred things up too much and I was spreading myself too thin in rp.
The thing I also have a problem with is the jutsu you're claiming to use on them. Inorganic reincarnation. It doesn't say anywhere that it can be used on chakra. Since it doesn't say what it can't do. We can only go on what it can do. And what it can do is move the ground. You cannot add something more than that unless others agree to it. From the looks of it, I'm the only who does?
But others agree to tone it down more. And cutting it down to 12 is fine, but I doubt anyone will be satisfied until you add some drawbacks.
-
I only left because Machina claimed to be faster and closer to me than the susanoo were, in which they were the first on scene to chase me. As well as with her logic that she could still catch up to me after the x amount of times I wasted around while fleeing the scene and only the susanoo took advantage of such. I did tell Kage I wouldn't have minded his defenses and would rather deal with just them and Ichirou given I didn't have to wait around for everyone in the posting order to make whatever post they felt necessary as well as having to deal with a god mod ninja atop of the susanoo clones. I simply wanted to test out just exactly what village defense Ame had while also attracting the attention of the Yonbi, maybe under other circumstances we would have seen just how it all would have panned out; although I do not have much patience to wait that long and be stuck IC RP. >>;
honestly though I still don't see how they can be operated on their own if you even mentioned they are a variation of clone technique and your own will manifested from your own chakras. Thats gotta tax something on your body, heavily if anything. Of course once they are active and not roaming. Besides You'd already have to be in Sage Mode to use the inorganic reincarnation technique to begin with if I am understanding it correctly.
-
Of course once they are active and not roaming. Besides You'd already have to be in Sage Mode to use the inorganic reincarnation technique to begin with if I am understanding it correctly.
Great point. Does the technique last while out of sage mode?
-
Wouldn't his chakra be perma cut because of these being clones?
Like, he would need to focus and sustain these constructs, as well as suffer the immense damage the Susanoo actually causes the body. Let's not forget how much damage the Susanoo actually does. Sasuke being quoted to saying that it feels like every cell in your body is being stressed immensely with just first form. You have 24 of them at all times, that would surly shorten your life span...At least I think so. Maybe I'm just high.
If anything, I could handle if he had the 8 I originally thought, 4 would make more sense. I wouldn't even consider accepting anything over 8 though. At a certain point it's just ludicrous to think something like that is realistic for one single person to sustain at all times of the day.
-
Well Kage if you want something else to address than the susanoo, you could try explain yourself about the takama no hara thing. As I mentioned in previous thread, and both Teostra and Eric in this one, it doesn't really matter where you say its power comes from, its basically an original thing that makes you immune to original things.
If you dislike non-canon things so much then why don't you just avoid or void them upright instead of, y'know, using the very same thing you're trying to void?
Its pretty much the same as saying 'nice thing you've created, too bad its a worthless waste of time' right up their face, which one might consider quite insulting since despite the effective voiding you're still acknowledging their stuff exists by dealing with them, and in the end you're still doing the exact same as they are. In fact if memory serves a good few of your own things are original, most prominent of them all your sage mode.
And no, I'm not bringing this up just cause I'm looking to fight you or anything.
-
... Now let me expand on the sentience part. The fact that they're an advanced clone jutsu means that there are some liberties one can take, as well as using Inorganic Reincarnation on them. Being a clone jutsu, they have knowledge and some of my will in them already. Having the second jutsu applied to them, means that they are a further extension of my will and can act independently...
Inorganic Reincarnation does allow you manipulate non-living things (I can see chakra being included in that) by imbuing some of your life force within said things; however, it does not generally grant sentience (the canon technique surely does not cause sentience) to these things. It does not make them alive in the sense that they can gather their own natural energy.
In the other thread, the big deal was that people got their fight. In this thread, the main deal is that you have a rather powerful village defense that is nigh invulnerable without a blatant drawback. Naturally this would come up when people decide to visit your village more aggressively (such as tailed beast hunting) because prior few cared enough to even look up the defenses of your village.
I digress somewhat though. Why not just Yin-Yang release instead of Inorganic Reincarnation? It seems like a much more flexible device for the creation of living, breathing constructs of chakra.
-
Well Kage if you want something else to address than the susanoo, you could try explain yourself about the takama no hara thing. As I mentioned in previous thread, and both Teostra and Eric in this one, it doesn't really matter where you say its power comes from, its basically an original thing that makes you immune to original things.
If you dislike non-canon things so much then why don't you just avoid or void them upright instead of, y'know, using the very same thing you're trying to void?
Its pretty much the same as saying 'nice thing you've created, too bad its a worthless waste of time' right up their face, which one might consider quite insulting since despite the effective voiding you're still acknowledging their stuff exists by dealing with them, and in the end you're still doing the exact same as they are. In fact if memory serves a good few of your own things are original, most prominent of them all your sage mode.
And no, I'm not bringing this up just cause I'm looking to fight you or anything.
That's the beauty of it though. They get to roleplay what they want. I would rather give them a chance of having fun with others, than just totally ignoring them in any RP associated with them. Instead of marking them "undesirables", I would rather help them in becoming integrated with the community. You need people if you want to roleplay. Otherwise you're just blogging your own fanfiction. Though I'm willing to drop the three times defense thing, since that was a bit extra.
Inorganic Reincarnation does allow you manipulate non-living things (I can see chakra being included in that) by imbuing some of your life force within said things; however, it does not generally grant sentience (the canon technique surely does not cause sentience) to these things. It does not make them alive in the sense that they can gather their own natural energy.
In the other thread, the big deal was that people got their fight. In this thread, the main deal is that you have a rather powerful village defense that is nigh invulnerable without a blatant drawback. Naturally this would come up when people decide to visit your village more aggressively (such as tailed beast hunting) because prior few cared enough to even look up the defenses of your village.
I digress somewhat though. Why not just Yin-Yang release instead of Inorganic Reincarnation? It seems like a much more flexible device for the creation of living, breathing constructs of chakra.
I could very well just do that. Yang Release alone would be sufficient enough. Though I would have thought that people would be able to put two and two together in realizing that Inorganic Reincarnation is a Yang Release technique of a much higher caliber. You have to remember, that techniques that are not classified as an element is either a Yin or Yang Release. The Naras fame themselves on their use of Yin Release all the time.
And in regards to people saying they'll never get their fight, I'll quote myself my most recent reply in the other thread, not out of self-gratification, but as addressing their concern.
Look man, I'm just saying that if a challenger screws up and draws attention to themselves, then of course they're going to have a village down their back. Do you realistically expect the entire village to clear the streets and bow to someone who states their intentions clearly and/or cause village destruction? Isn't the point of being a hunter AND ninja to be sneaky and track down your target to a location for the fight to commence? Once the fight commences, there will be onlookers and bystanders in the area. Though once it ends (death/incapacitation/yield/etc.) then it ends, and the whole force of a village is going to come down upon them.
Wouldn't his chakra be perma cut because of these being clones?
Like, he would need to focus and sustain these constructs, as well as suffer the immense damage the Susanoo actually causes the body. Let's not forget how much damage the Susanoo actually does. Sasuke being quoted to saying that it feels like every cell in your body is being stressed immensely with just first form. You have 24 of them at all times, that would surly shorten your life span...At least I think so. Maybe I'm just high.
If anything, I could handle if he had the 8 I originally thought, 4 would make more sense. I wouldn't even consider accepting anything over 8 though. At a certain point it's just ludicrous to think something like that is realistic for one single person to sustain at all times of the day.
If they're independent beings with the ability to replenish themselves, then there's not really much of a tax on my own chakra if I've cut myself off from them. Just be glad that their knowledge, memories, experiences and chakra don't rush back to me and let me know what hooligan is making a mess in my village. And I'm really sure that Kishi pretty much retconned Susanoo actually hurting and killing the user. The most prominent user in the series, Madara, was able to live until very old age. But if anything, it would cause more pain to those without an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, since that were the only times when we saw any indication of actual pain occurring to a user. Perhaps it is one of the hidden perks of having it. Heck, just look at Sasuke, the second-most prominent user/abuser of it. He seems just fine too.
Though with myself being a Uchiha and a Senju, along with Susanoo being one of the techniques I've delved into over the years, ought to prove my own proficiency with the technique and the techniques I've spawned from it.
-
Well Kage if you want something else to address than the susanoo, you could try explain yourself about the takama no hara thing. As I mentioned in previous thread, and both Teostra and Eric in this one, it doesn't really matter where you say its power comes from, its basically an original thing that makes you immune to original things.
If you dislike non-canon things so much then why don't you just avoid or void them upright instead of, y'know, using the very same thing you're trying to void?
Its pretty much the same as saying 'nice thing you've created, too bad its a worthless waste of time' right up their face, which one might consider quite insulting since despite the effective voiding you're still acknowledging their stuff exists by dealing with them, and in the end you're still doing the exact same as they are. In fact if memory serves a good few of your own things are original, most prominent of them all your sage mode.
And no, I'm not bringing this up just cause I'm looking to fight you or anything.
That's the beauty of it though. They get to roleplay what they want. I would rather give them a chance of having fun with others, than just totally ignoring them in any RP associated with them. Instead of marking them "undesirables", I would rather help them in becoming integrated with the community. You need people if you want to roleplay. Otherwise you're just blogging your own fanfiction. Though I'm willing to drop the three times defense thing, since that was a bit extra.
Inorganic Reincarnation does allow you manipulate non-living things (I can see chakra being included in that) by imbuing some of your life force within said things; however, it does not generally grant sentience (the canon technique surely does not cause sentience) to these things. It does not make them alive in the sense that they can gather their own natural energy.
In the other thread, the big deal was that people got their fight. In this thread, the main deal is that you have a rather powerful village defense that is nigh invulnerable without a blatant drawback. Naturally this would come up when people decide to visit your village more aggressively (such as tailed beast hunting) because prior few cared enough to even look up the defenses of your village.
I digress somewhat though. Why not just Yin-Yang release instead of Inorganic Reincarnation? It seems like a much more flexible device for the creation of living, breathing constructs of chakra.
I could very well just do that. Yang Release alone would be sufficient enough. Though I would have thought that people would be able to put two and two together in realizing that Inorganic Reincarnation is a Yang Release technique of a much higher caliber. You have to remember, that techniques that are not classified as an element is either a Yin or Yang Release. The Naras fame themselves on their use of Yin Release all the time.
And in regards to people saying they'll never get their fight, I'll quote myself my most recent reply in the other thread, not out of self-gratification, but as addressing their concern.
Look man, I'm just saying that if a challenger screws up and draws attention to themselves, then of course they're going to have a village down their back. Do you realistically expect the entire village to clear the streets and bow to someone who states their intentions clearly and/or cause village destruction? Isn't the point of being a hunter AND ninja to be sneaky and track down your target to a location for the fight to commence? Once the fight commences, there will be onlookers and bystanders in the area. Though once it ends (death/incapacitation/yield/etc.) then it ends, and the whole force of a village is going to come down upon them.
Wouldn't his chakra be perma cut because of these being clones?
Like, he would need to focus and sustain these constructs, as well as suffer the immense damage the Susanoo actually causes the body. Let's not forget how much damage the Susanoo actually does. Sasuke being quoted to saying that it feels like every cell in your body is being stressed immensely with just first form. You have 24 of them at all times, that would surly shorten your life span...At least I think so. Maybe I'm just high.
If anything, I could handle if he had the 8 I originally thought, 4 would make more sense. I wouldn't even consider accepting anything over 8 though. At a certain point it's just ludicrous to think something like that is realistic for one single person to sustain at all times of the day.
If they're independent beings with the ability to replenish themselves, then there's not really much of a tax on my own chakra if I've cut myself off from them. Just be glad that their knowledge, memories, experiences and chakra don't rush back to me and let me know what hooligan is making a mess in my village. And I'm really sure that Kishi pretty much retconned Susanoo actually hurting and killing the user. The most prominent user in the series, Madara, was able to live until very old age. But if anything, it would cause more pain to those without an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, since that were the only times when we saw any indication of actual pain occurring to a user. Perhaps it is one of the hidden perks of having it. Heck, just look at Sasuke, the second-most prominent user/abuser of it. He seems just fine too.
Though with myself being a Uchiha and a Senju, along with Susanoo being one of the techniques I've delved into over the years, ought to prove my own proficiency with the technique and the techniques I've spawned from it.
No, they don't get to roleplay what they want. Effectively you're stopping them from doing that in your village. If Shadowfire went to your village your takama would automatically void him. Even though he intertwines both of Naruto and his own creation into Naruto. Has been here for years, etc. He has an other-worldly effect on his own body. Saying you can rp what you want and then automatically canceling what they want to rp is like Hitler telling people he likes everyone.
"If they're independent beings with the ability to replenish themselves, then there's not really much of a tax on my own chakra if I've cut myself off from them. Just be glad that their knowledge, memories, experiences and chakra don't rush back to me and let me know what hooligan is making a mess in my village. And I'm really sure that Kishi pretty much retconned Susanoo actually hurting and killing the user. The most prominent user in the series, Madara, was able to live until very old age. But if anything, it would cause more pain to those without an Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, since that were the only times when we saw any indication of actual pain occurring to a user. Perhaps it is one of the hidden perks of having it. Heck, just look at Sasuke, the second-most prominent user/abuser of it. He seems just fine too.
Though with myself being a Uchiha and a Senju, along with Susanoo being one of the techniques I've delved into over the years, ought to prove my own proficiency with the technique and the techniques I've spawned from it."
Kage you do not have Will Materialization. You have inorganic reincarnation. They move to your will and susuanoo clones ARE attached to your person. You have to be in sage mode to use it. I'm note totally sure, but after you exit sage mode don't all sage techniques quit? And we don't have to be glad that it doesn't transfer memories or anything else. That'd be voided 100% so no, we don't have to be glad. Thanks.
I'm still brewing over how you 'cut' them off from yourself and still how they gather senjutsu chakra. Doesn't chakra run out after awhile? Effectively making them disperse? Every movement something alive makes takes chakra. And they are made of your chakra. Drawing in senjutsu chakra MIXES chakra. So every time they draw in natural energy don't they have to mix it with their own chakra? But they don't have a chakra reserve since they're made of chakra. How does that work?
-
Correct. Nature energy on its own isn't chakra, its just a component of senjutsu chakra, so even if senjutsu type might appear more voluminous due to its potency than normal, you're still not actually gaining any power as you do it, only losing. Only way to gain is to copy Naruto, have a clone gathering and molding, then send it through dispersal, but that's not being done here.
Another thing to note is that since if I'm understanding correctly the susanoo are just susanoo, not with a clone inside them as normal, then even if you had some way to remotely animate them then it shouldn't actually be possible to mold normal chakra to try replenish that which is lost. Drawing in senjutsu to mix with the chakra they consist of is debatable, since that doesn't take much more than just standing still, but chakra on its own can't grow, it can't be produced out of itself much less nothing. With the sole exception of edo tensei, you need a living flesh and blood body, organs etc for that, to produce the physical and spiritual parts, then mold them.
-
Well of course Natural Energy alone doesn't sustain them. That's why they were given life and chakra. And with their knowledge, they're able to sustain themselves by molding Natural Energy with their chakra to keep themselves composed of Senjutsu Chakra. You guys do know that transfering chakra for other living beings without it to use and then develop as their own is the whole point of Ninshu, right?
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Ninsh%C5%AB
Last I checked, that wasn't taken on the claimed list before starting this discussion up.
But let's be honest here. Even if I am able to reason and defend myself on how these things work and debuff them a little, people are still going to whine that they're not strong or smart enough to take them on, and would rather call for a void.
If this is about the Yonbi, then I'll keep on telling you that you're welcome to come after it so long as your're ninja about it.
If this is about village defense reform as a whole, then mention other villages, because I can see how some of their defenses are much stronger than mine. Which I am totally cool with.
If this is targeted to me alone, then let those intentions be made known. And judging by the title of the thread, this seems to be it.
Though really, you're already in my village Shadow. You've already accepted my rules, terms, conditions and on-goings of the village. That includes the "undesirables" and the Susanoo Clones. You didn't anger or set them off last time when you were on the hunt. I don't unreasonably send them to attack somebody due to OOC knowledge of someone's standing or intentions. This thread would have been more useful if it were posted before entering, instead of about 2-3 hours after you've already entered.
(18h19m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow sighed softly as he once again traveled to Amegakure. The last visit hadn't been too profitable due to an attacker upon the village stirring things up. Hopefully now he'd be able to roam around and actually get some business done. The bridge he saw was rebuilt and as he started to walk (~)
(18h17m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow it's long path he'd firmly put the hood over his head to avoid further rain. Shadow had no reason to hide his chakra as he walked even though he was fully aware of the technique being used on the rain. He was a former kage and that held weight not to mention he was here recently (~)
(18h16m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow and wasn't singled out despite anything. Upon reaching the check-in Shadow held up the pamphlet he had previously been given. Going on the assumption he'd be permitted in without issues. As said, last time there were none.
I'm not the unreasonable type of person to just kick someone out. I've really never had to, since people have always left the liberty of that to themselves. If I've ever had a problem with people's stuff, I would bring it up with them and try to talk things out. I don't have a problem with your stuff that was on display on your profile, even though it could use a bit of expanding on the techniques section. You're welcome to leave and then try and enter a third time, after this discussion is resolved.
-
Well of course Natural Energy alone doesn't sustain them. That's why they were given life and chakra. And with their knowledge, they're able to sustain themselves by molding Natural Energy with their chakra to keep themselves composed of Senjutsu Chakra. You guys do know that transfering chakra for other living beings without it to use and then develop as their own is the whole point of Ninshu, right?
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Ninsh%C5%AB
Last I checked, that wasn't taken on the claimed list before starting this discussion up.
But let's be honest here. Even if I am able to reason and defend myself on how these things work and debuff them a little, people are still going to whine that they're not strong or smart enough to take them on, and would rather call for a void.
If this is about the Yonbi, then I'll keep on telling you that you're welcome to come after it so long as your're ninja about it.
If this is about village defense reform as a whole, then mention other villages, because I can see how some of their defenses are much stronger than mine. Which I am totally cool with.
If this is targeted to me alone, then let those intentions be made known. And judging by the title of the thread, this seems to be it.
Though really, you're already in my village Shadow. You've already accepted my rules, terms, conditions and on-goings of the village. That includes the "undesirables" and the Susanoo Clones. You didn't anger or set them off last time when you were on the hunt. I don't unreasonably send them to attack somebody due to OOC knowledge of someone's standing or intentions. This thread would have been more useful if it were posted before entering, instead of about 2-3 hours after you've already entered.
(18h19m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow sighed softly as he once again traveled to Amegakure. The last visit hadn't been too profitable due to an attacker upon the village stirring things up. Hopefully now he'd be able to roam around and actually get some business done. The bridge he saw was rebuilt and as he started to walk (~)
(18h17m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow it's long path he'd firmly put the hood over his head to avoid further rain. Shadow had no reason to hide his chakra as he walked even though he was fully aware of the technique being used on the rain. He was a former kage and that held weight not to mention he was here recently (~)
(18h16m) <||||> Kaguya ●● Shadow and wasn't singled out despite anything. Upon reaching the check-in Shadow held up the pamphlet he had previously been given. Going on the assumption he'd be permitted in without issues. As said, last time there were none.
I'm not the unreasonable type of person to just kick someone out. I've really never had to, since people have always left the liberty of that to themselves. If I've ever had a problem with people's stuff, I would bring it up with them and try to talk things out. I don't have a problem with your stuff that was on display on your profile, even though it could use a bit of expanding on the techniques section. You're welcome to leave and then try and enter a third time, after this discussion is resolved.
No one can claim Ninshu. It's a teaching thing that all ninja have? You're still not explaining how they all of a sudden have brains to do anything. They have your will, but that doesn't mean they now learn anything you will them to learn. They can't learn.
This isn't about me like you seem to think. Yes I made the topic against you, because I think they need to be nerfed. Honestly I could take them on or scale a war on Ame. That's not the point here. I wasn't the only person who had an issue with this as clearly seen. Many people do. As for other village having stuff that needs to be nerfed, well I don't see any. No one else has 24 3x OP susanoo constantly in sage mode. Even Kiri with all their chakra draining crap is legit.
-
A little incorrect.
Ninshuu is mistakenly thought to be the predecessor of what is known as ninjutsu today. Rikudou Sennin himself however debunked this myth during his conversation with Naruto in the mindscape, it went something like this.
Ninshuu = Uses chakra to connect people, allowing a higher level of understanding akin to telepathy, sharing thoughts, memories, feelings, et cetera.
Ninjutsu = Uses chakra as it is, molded into a weapon.
So in theory its possible for two or more people linked in this way to make a kind of, for lack of a better word, unified chakra pool, all able to draw on it while linked. That certainly isn't ninshuu's point though, mutual understanding is. Also even if you did use it for a chakra transfer, I don't see how'd that help the susanoos' self sufficiency since the power would still have to come from somewhere such as you yourself?
As for claiming then yes, ninshuu itself is a teaching so even by the nonsensical claiming rules you can't claim it. Techniques that in turn apply it in their usage...I guess? I've yet to run into anyone who'd be enough a lamer to want to do that though.
So far to my knowledge only I (Warren) have researched and practiced it to any notable degree on SL, which was a fair pain in the ass considering basically no village had any real records whatsoever of it much less Hagoromo when I went around asking x_X trial and error all day everyday woo. I've also taught meager amounts of it to Melissa and JinchuuMimai, but nobody else yet, so if somebody else pops up claiming they're some master at it then take it with a grain of salt.
-
No one can claim Ninshu. It's a teaching thing that all ninja have? You're still not explaining how they all of a sudden have brains to do anything. They have your will, but that doesn't mean they now learn anything you will them to learn. They can't learn.
NINJA MAGIC. But seriously, if you're going to question how a clone produced from a clone technique, which was then given other additives such as life and senjutsu enchancements, is able to have knowledge from it's creator, then that's just the simple answer. I'm not going to break down how Clone Techniques are supposed to make scientific sense in the first place. Chakra isn't supposed to make much sense if you try to look at it scientifically. It's actually the merging of the physical and spiritual. But hey, that's why it's roleplay.
And let me scroll through the thread again to see exactly who else had a serious problem with this, other than Rusaku, for whom I've made the continual point in saying that he can come after the Yonbi too if he wants and can fulfill the challenging process if he can keep himself composed as a ninja. He's the one pushing himself away. Though he does have some competition, or companionship, whichever. I'm not sure if there is a rule or provision about challengers jumping in with or against other challengers. Maybe that's left up to the first one that gets there.
-
No one can claim Ninshu. It's a teaching thing that all ninja have? You're still not explaining how they all of a sudden have brains to do anything. They have your will, but that doesn't mean they now learn anything you will them to learn. They can't learn.
NINJA MAGIC. But seriously, if you're going to question how a clone produced from a clone technique, which was then given other additives such as life and senjutsu enchancements, is able to have knowledge from it's creator, then that's just the simple answer. I'm not going to break down how Clone Techniques are supposed to make scientific sense in the first place. Chakra isn't supposed to make much sense if you try to look at it scientifically. It's actually the merging of the physical and spiritual. But hey, that's why it's roleplay.
And let me scroll through the thread again to see exactly who else had a serious problem with this, other than Rusaku, for whom I've made the continual point in saying that he can come after the Yonbi too if he wants and can fulfill the challenging process if he can keep himself composed as a ninja. He's the one pushing himself away. Though he does have some competition, or companionship, whichever. I'm not sure if there is a rule or provision about challengers jumping in with or against other challengers. Maybe that's left up to the first one that gets there.
Susanoo clones are clones of susanoo. They cannot learn new things nor draw in natural energy. It doesn't make sense that they could. You have to propel the senjutsu onto them. They can't learn.
-
Well, to be fair, clones can gather chakra. But to do so, they have to be still just like how Naruto used to do. Did anyone else think my idea was pretty reasonable for this whole issue? The clones could be there in standby mode for who cares how long. But I feel that they shouldn't be given sentience just because of a jutsu cast on them (Kabuto's jutsu didn't make the cave 'alive', it just made it move to however he wished. Kind of like a fluid). Plus, the caves are just rocks while Susanoos are masses of chakra. I don't agree that casting this jutsu on a mass of chakra would bring it to life.
If it did, I'd cast that technique on a Rasengan and have a bouncing rasengan as a buddy palling around with me. I feel that if Kage wants to 'activate' these things, he should put himself into a defenseless kind of state like Nagato did with his Pain troops. Without getting into this cockpit to control them, they're just kind of there collecting bird poop.
Edit: I'd also like to make it known that I have no intention of visiting Ame (because I'm still in RP limbo :P) or going after any bijuu. I'm just posting to discuss this.
-
Thing is Teostra a normal solid clone like kage bunshin emulates a real body, organs and all, so they actually have something to mold chakra with. Susanoo is just a mass of chakra made to look like a freaky warrior on the outside, you can even clearly see there's nothing inside it.
Otherwise though I do find the Nagato-way far more logical like you do, yes.
-
Well, to be fair, clones can gather chakra. But to do so, they have to be still just like how Naruto used to do. Did anyone else think my idea was pretty reasonable for this whole issue? The clones could be there in standby mode for who cares how long. But I feel that they shouldn't be given sentience just because of a jutsu cast on them (Kabuto's jutsu didn't make the cave 'alive', it just made it move to however he wished. Kind of like a fluid). Plus, the caves are just rocks while Susanoos are masses of chakra. I don't agree that casting this jutsu on a mass of chakra would bring it to life.
If it did, I'd cast that technique on a Rasengan and have a bouncing rasengan as a buddy palling around with me. I feel that if Kage wants to 'activate' these things, he should put himself into a defenseless kind of state like Nagato did with his Pain troops. Without getting into this cockpit to control them, they're just kind of there collecting bird poop.
Edit: I'd also like to make it known that I have no intention of visiting Ame (because I'm still in RP limbo :P) or going after any bijuu. I'm just posting to discuss this.
I've always stated that they're always at the gates just standing there. Whenever they do move, outside of confrontation, it's for their change of shifts. They're at one with nature to the point that whenever people enter, they don't notice the giant flaming gold giants in the background of a constantly clouded and raining village.
But actually, that's the entire point behind the technique. To give life to things that aren't usually alive.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-582-page-3.html
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art%3A_Inorganic_Reincarnation
It's almost like Will Materialization, though it's actually classified as an actual technique. It doesn't have to make sense of how a bunch of rocks or whatever else you want to come alive actually comes alive. It just works.
-
So I'mma go in with mah eyes blazing and kamui those things back to death.
-
Wait?...Chakra is an object? What? :-?
-
I feel that if Kage wants to 'activate' these things, he should put himself into a defenseless kind of state like Nagato did with his Pain troops. Without getting into this cockpit to control them, they're just kind of there collecting bird poop.
That seems to be what is going on in a way. They are stationary and aren't doing much at a passive state. Although, once trouble stirs is once they activate. Again, I'm not trying to hop on the void wagon since this is someones purely imaginative creation and who are we to judge whats void and what isn't, really. Just that its power levels are a bit severe, given that most Shinobi(madara aside) were only known to summon 1 susanoo. I think the susanoo could still be an plausible defense, only given there are fair drawbacks. Meaning that 8 or 12 susanoo could roam the village, all while the manipulator; Kage has to maintain in a stationary position in order to control and operate these beasts. Otherwise said logic claims that I, as an Uzumaki can dump all my chakra into some sort of storage devise and the next day I'll have my reserves replenished and a whole other body worth's of chakra at my disposal if I needed it My argument is that they spawn from your chakra are using your chakra hence should be attached to your chakra expenditures in times of combat.
-
That's like saying that there should be a constant chakra tax on anything that's present while still having traces of your chakra, like seals. They're independent of you, but you still have some sort of connection/control over them. Like I said before, I used the technique to make the Susanoo have life and become independent of myself. And yes, chakra can be objects/be used to spawn objects. It's done all the time.
-
Except Kabuto's trick doesn't actually turn something truly alive, object or not, it just animates it temporarily. The second he stopped controlling it all it just froze again, same thing if its exposed to high heat.
Also black zetsu himself a long time ago busted the myth that Madara made him, he was goop from Kaguya all along. Only thing will materialization is good for really is a rinnegan user making the black rods.
-
..I could very well just do that. Yang Release alone would be sufficient enough. Though I would have thought that people would be able to put two and two together in realizing that Inorganic Reincarnation is a Yang Release technique of a much higher caliber. You have to remember, that techniques that are not classified as an element is either a Yin or Yang Release. The Naras fame themselves on their use of Yin Release all the time...
I disagree, Yang release would not be sufficient in my opinion:
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yin%E2%80%93Yang_Release
Creating the tailed beasts out of the chakra of the ten-tails is similar to what you are doing now; not the same, but similar. Yin release tends to create form out of nothing, but it does not generate life; Yang release tends to manipulate the body (I.E, turning carbs into chakra for Akimichi) or grant increased vitality to something already alive, but it does not tend to actually grant life to the point of sentience.
Even the Inorganic Reincarnation technique requires the user's will in order to manipulate the affect things, and the objects are not at all sentient on their own. Hence, the whole process of both creating and granting the clones life is more akin to the Creation of All Things technique moreso than the inorganic reincarnation, as far as I see it.
I used to think shadow imitation was yang release, but when the series brought that assumption to a crash, I had to redefine my concept of Yin release and Yang release. Alone, neither one can create an all new life form capable of self-sustenance. The mixture of yin and yang is the basis for all ninjutsu, so naturally then, lower caliber forms of Yin-Yang is what many techniques are actually composed of, likely including the shadow clone technique.
So I'mma go in with mah eyes blazing and kamui those things back to death.
It would arguably be more efficient to use Amateratsu in order to denature their sentience, since it is currently based of the Inorganic Reincarnation technique.
-
That's what I meant. xD Not kamui