Shinobi Legends Forum
Game Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Darkshinobi on July 17, 2014, 12:10:30 AM
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Shinobi Legends is a wonderful website; the forests are fun for awhile, and hanging in the garden is a great pastime.
However, the majority of activity comes from the role-play.
Most of us with a public voice are or have been "mainstream" role-players in the past; it's what most of us who remain here are here for.
However, there's almost no organization, no mediation. Nobody's in charge.
We, the community have taken matters into our own hands for a long time; when a serious problem arises, the community discusses it and tries to come to the best possible solution.
And, overall, that's how it should be. A community of writers should work together to build the world they're in.
But occasionally mediation is needed. We need Game Masters to help when solutions simply can't be found, to help stimulate role-play where it's lacking -- to serve the community, not simply control it.
At the moment, there are several "mainstream" plots going on: Konohagakure just beat back an attempted coup; Kirigakure is locked in mortal combat with the Akatsuki, who have taken over Iwagakure as their base of operations. The Tsuchikage and his few loyal forces bide their time in an attempt to wait for the appropriate moment to reclaim their village, but in the meantime Iwa's functionally dead. Kumogakure waits in silence, holding their considerable force at bay and staying out of any fray that doesn't come to them. Sunagakure and Otogakure have both been attacked heavily in the past; the current Kazekage is heavily wounded and being healed by a previous one.
There are also other villages, organizations, and solo shinobi with their own private agendas, carving their own paths throughout the world.
No, we don't need Game Masters to rule with an iron fist -- but we do need them to step in on occasion.
At last count, I believe there were either twenty-two or twenty-four people involved in the Kirigakure/Akatsuki conflict; it's become a fiasco that can't simply come to a proper resolution due to conflicting sides. It's at a time like this that a mediating Game Master could be helpful.
And as mentioned, Iwagakure is functionally dead unless something changes. Active Game Masters could change that, help write plots that the community at large enjoys.
We currently have two semi-active or active Game Masters in role-play: Kamui and Nathan. Kyu is around and I'm sure he's willing to help if called on, but I haven't seen him involved much of late.
So this is my request: allow the community at large to choose a Game Master(s). We overall know each-other and can determine those best to help us.
And to the community, I request that you acknowledge the Game Masters we have; they're here to help us, and from what I know of each of them they're more than willing. Kamui said it best:
As for everything else, I can really agree that perhaps some collaboration amongst users will improve some activity on the site.
This community can do amazing things when they work together; we just need organization.
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All I can really say on this is,
'One Ring Ruled Them All'
We need a GM who doesn't care if people like them.
*cough*
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All I can really say on this is,
'One Ring Ruled Them All'
We need a GM who doesn't care if people like them.
*cough*
I vote me, people already don't like me.
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Well now. Comes in Shadow. Over the course of what seems shorter than what it really has been....
I have been talking to Neji over several weeks about various aspects of the game that I thought needed to be fixed. SST/CS, minor typos, ect. At this point I'm surprised I didn't annoy the hell out of the poor guy...or I did and he tolerates me. xD
Anywho game master(s) has came up more than a few times. So has (recently) how mods are picked.
Neji's basic response (Neji correct me where my memory fails if you do see this); He doesn't want more game masters. That being, Kyu and Zenaku who are the two 'official' ones. I told them about their inactiveness overall and how I really don't seem them upholding their title as that. yadayada. He doesn't want to appoint people as GM. One of the few reasons is that he didn't want them to become bombarded with rp situations. As more than giving their time to help, it would become more like a job. Another point was the zones and the newly added feature of the /game command to help set up situations and other things of rp manner. Directed us to use those if we wanted to set up a complex scenario where someone had to emote the weather or what have you. (Eliminating the need for GM's in the zones as everyone is now) Still outside of zones and that kind of situation I didn't go further into as talk of adding the /game command in other places was touched on and he has a job outside of sl....so I stopped after that and am currently waiting a few weeks to see how it progresses overall.
As for how mods are picked. This came up when Nathan suddenly appeared as a mod without much talk outside of the staff group and while others may think this info should be private; it shouldn't. Nathan was seemingly picked out of two players...himself and some other person that I have no idea who was. I heard from others and Nathan himself that he basically asked for mod and got it from Neji. Of course this isn't what really happened. But that is what caused me to go around asking more. I didn't want moderator status to be given upon asking. I was a little oblivious when asking if that was the truth cause Neji and staff are far more intelligent than to give permissions to someone just for asking. He was picked and decided upon like 3-4 staff members and Neji.
Those are the things that I was told. After the Nathan incident I kinda went around and sent a mass message to everyone asking which mods have helped and which ones were bad, ect. Except to the mods and players who I didn't think would know or care. For the most part; Kamui, Rinoa, and Tracey were regarded positive the most. And those are the currently most active mods. Besides the now assigned Nathan. I poked at Neji to upgrade the inactive list to add more of the staff to there as people like Xaos and others have been highly inactive and weren't really known by the community nowadays as helping. (Maybe in the past, but not longer) Like said he has a job outside of sl and take that into consideration when you ask of things.
I could go on a bunch more over other things I talked with him about, but for this post...
TL;DR
No more GM's due to /game being added | And people would bug them too much | I didn't ask more from Neji to give him a break
GM's and Mods are picked by Neji and Staff. Current community players don't really seem to be considered when picking someone. Even if the community wants them?
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So did Neji ask all the inactive mods then? I know Taraka and Rinoa said they weren't told about it and they are actually active, and that's about 80% of the active mods.
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So did Neji ask all the inactive mods then? I know Taraka and Rinoa said they weren't told about it and they are actually active, and that's about 80% of the active mods.
I don't really know...apparently you were lied to by them? If I remember correctly Rinoa WAS part of the small group that decided. I may be wrong, but...let me check to see if I still have the pms.
"""If you get stuff out of context, only parts are seen.
I asked around the mods of suitable new people to hire, two were mentioned and agreed by most.
We had no official "we're hiring" up at this time. When picking one guy, I like it usually faster than skimming through all kinds of applications.
He had the impression he just asked ;) because that's what I wanted him to think. After we already made the decision, he wrote a "make me mod!" mail, and I just wrote "ok".
Now all is in turmoil, and I snicker from time to time about that :P
I don't regularly monitor activity of mods - giving them a bit more freedom than other sites.
Rather a few more and some inactive, than a few who have a tight schedule and a lot on their shoulders."""
Out of my personal messages cause I feel the community who fund and continue this site should know how things are handled. That was with Neji I had one of two others telling me...
Kamui, Taraka, Rinoa, and Zimzamboo were all in the group that I can recall. May be faulty info, but I doubt it.
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So did Neji ask all the inactive mods then? I know Taraka and Rinoa said they weren't told about it and they are actually active, and that's about 80% of the active mods.
Kamui, Taraka, Rinoa, and Zimzamboo were all in the group that I can recall. May be faulty info, but I doubt it.
I speak to all four of these people on a (at least somewhat) regular basis, and they, for the most part, relayed it the way you were told by Nathan; he was given his status because he asked for it. I haven't heard anything about a vote for Nathan whatsoever.
As far as the original post goes..
We have game masters who are able to do this. Zimzamboo, Kamui, Rinoa, Nathan... They all CAN do their job. A few bigger problem I am seeing is, when two opposing sides have a serious question, either a) one of the sides doesn't like/respect the moderator called, and therefore doesn't accept their opinion b) the game master's own personal RP impedes the process of unbiased decision making.
Further, the place where most of our RP information is contained (the narutoprofile wiki) is maintained by Yumei, who isn't a mod himself. He pays his $8 a month (estimation) to host all this information. That doesn't seem like a huge problem at first, but as things evolve, things are missed and/or exploited.
Now, solutions to these problems are a bit hairy. To solve the first issue, we'd have to 'elect' game masters who can either enforce their opinion (which isn't something anybody wants), or elect game masters who are proven to be able to remain unbiased, or elect a huge number of moderators and hope and pray that none of them dislike each other enough to go head-to-head and produce a huge headache. What ought to happen, in my honest opinion, is a mixture of these three options. Have a group of game masters, preferably active and odd in number, who are known to be knowledgeable in SL RP, unbiased, and unyielding.
Whether or not a player likes/dislikes a game master is irrelevant. It is their job to settle disputes. With RP having become such a huge part of the game, their opinion needs to be respected and their ability to give unbiased responses needs to be keen. So far, Nathan and Kamui both know what's going on; Rinoa and Zimzamboo, the other two active masters we are talking about, are still trying to catch up from their previous inactivity.
As for the other problem with the wiki, I spoke to Zimzamboo, who said he'd like to create a SL wiki (essentially the same thing) that is moderated by the game masters and plays host to the site's information. I endorse this idea; he was saying it was $8 a month. If that means I have to put up some money every month to help him out in that endeavor, I'd be okay with that. My point is, the current way of hosting information isn't yielding to the game being moderated by the game masters; it yields to the game being moderated by those who are REALLY familiar with it, which is difficult.
If, say, two or three more ACTIVE game masters were to be chosen, they along with who the site already has ought to be able to moderate fights that need it. They should be the go-to, and they should be familiar with the site that hosts the RP information. If the set of game masters are familiar with the information they contain on general RP, and each character is familiar with their OWN set, game masters are able to check their info in problems, validate or deny with ease, and move on. Right now, the info in the wiki is being manipulated each and every way because it is SO inconsistent.
Further, if more game masters are chosen, it is probably best they don't have a history of getting banned for ERP, misconduct, abusive language, etc. Just throwing that out there.
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I don't like the idea of a Wiki that is controlled by moderators and not the players themselves. Seems 'prying' (for lack of better wording) to me.
I like game masters and the idea of them, but I don't agree to give them power over ever rp aspect which your posts seems to be pushing towards.
As for GM - Mod those are two separate jobs. Aj/Kamui is not a GM nor is Rinoa nor is even Zim to my knowing. Nathan isn't.
The GM's are Zenaku and Kyu. Both non mods. Kamui and Nathan have been called to act as GMs, Kamui countless times. Nathan not so much, but I've seen where he's been called. Zim/Levi has been inactive up until recently and even before then I didn't notice him being into rp that much. At this current time I wouldn't pose him as a fit GM due to his | lack of | inactiveness. Rinoa is the same. I know she does some rp, but I don't see her fit to be a GM. Taraka although not mentioned by you also was called as a judge in the Kiri fight as you know a few weeks back.
Mods and GM's are different things. Mods are acting like GMs cause the players want them to due to none being assigned as official GM's. That does not mean, however, that each mod is fit to act as a GM as stated.
Nathan, Kamui, and Taraka are the only ones I'd personally accept. Until I see more from Zimzamboo and Rinoa as far as mainstream rp goes they would not be my pick. I'd pick nonmods like Darkshinobi (A great choice), Trev, and a few others to be GM before those two. I am NOT trying to put those two down in any way. They very well could be GMs and be the best at doing that. Currently I don't see any info to back up they would be fit. I don't see them on ANY of these forums. How are they supposed to be a GM if they don't even try to interact with the ongoing rp situations?
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I only mentioned those four because those were the four who were mentioned to have voted on Nathan.
As I also said, Rinoa and Zim both need caught up from their inactivity. They are both old though, and both RPed heavily way back when. I remember it; I've been around a time or two.
I think it is premature to talk about who would make suitable GMs. Now should be the time where we talk about whether or not we need more, how the jobs are defined and what they can do, and how the realm should proceed. Then, we can talk about who. Right now, what and how are more important.
Zenaku and Kyu, plain as day, don't do their job. Nothing against either of them, but they simply aren't active enough period, much less active enough in the ongoing RP. I get asked all the time to look at RP stuff and settle things; so do many others, I'm sure. But we aren't all fit to be mods.
We need to first decide what it is we are doing; then, draw the lines. Then we can color it in.
So, let's talk about it. I am of the opinion that the game needs at least five active Game Masters to be called upon to moderate RP. And that's it; existing moderators, who answer petitions and solve other issues, shouldn't be recycled. It is already a big job to handle this site's RP, and people are busy. If existing mod's jobs get moved around, fine. But we need at least five.
Further, I still support the wiki. I don't think it should be "controlled" by moderators, but I do think the game masters should be familiar with it, and they should be the ones through which new information that is pertinent to everyone is added. It would provide much needed organization. "Control", I'm finding, is a word people don't like; moderated is the one I think we should be using. There is a difference, it is just kinda fine.
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Layout incoming...
5 Game Masters
1 for each village
All known in rp and well vetted, unbiased.
Active and helpful.
Basically that? ^
As for the wiki idea you brought up I wouldn't mind having it be a bit more regulated. That'd be nice.
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Layout incoming...
5 Game Masters
1 for each village
All known in rp and well vetted, unbiased.
Active and helpful.
Basically that? ^
As for the wiki idea you brought up I wouldn't mind having it be a bit more regulated. That'd be nice.
One for each village? Not my words, but not an entirely bad idea, assuming each village can put up an equally competent person.
And not necessarily from that village; essentially, someone who is familiar with that village and can moderate for them. For example, someone from another village might have to be appointed for Iwa. Other than those snags, yeah, basically.
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Between me and Kay I think we have Iwa under control.
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Between me and Kay I think we have Iwa under control.
That is laughable. Also, I point to my above statement , stating, "Further, if more game masters are chosen, it is probably best they don't have a history of getting banned for ERP, misconduct, abusive language, etc. Just throwing that out there."
It is clear why I'd say something like that; to prevent jerks from being game masters.
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Well damn, there goes my chance. Cussing. Really isn't that much of a big deal to me. I can see your point though.
Well no, doesn't have to be from each village, but it'd be nice since the 5 major ones have rp active. Minus Kumo is dead. Oto would replace them maybe. Kusa? I dunno.
5 competent people.
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Well damn, there goes my chance. Cussing. Really isn't that much of a big deal to me. I can see your point though.
Well no, doesn't have to be from each village, but it'd be nice since the 5 major ones have rp active. Minus Kumo is dead. Oto would replace them maybe. Kusa? I dunno.
5 competent people.
Cussing is different from being abusive.
Thank you. 5 competent people, preferably each familiar with some different section of the major RPs going on.
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I'm glad we have Isa here to judge who should or shouldn't be one, considering I've had to report him every time he directs a forum post at me. He clearly knows what abuse is all about.
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So for the most part Dark fits all descriptions. Not much to fill out at this point.
Thank you Bocc for once again trying to start something. No. DO NOT do this or I will report you both. Bocc you mostly. Don't start shit. Isa you if you respond ignore him. Moving on.
Dark, I made a topic about him being mod. Thoughts go there. For the most part my 'layout' is fine then?
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So for the most part Dark fits all descriptions. Not much to fill out at this point.
Thank you Bocc for once again trying to start something. No. DO NOT do this or I will report you both. Bocc you mostly. Don't start shit. Isa you if you respond ignore him. Moving on.
Dark, I made a topic about him being mod. Thoughts go there. For the most part my 'layout' is fine then?
I'm not doing anything. No one besides me or Kayenta is remotely active and knows anything about Iwa so Isaribi insults me for no reason.
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You retorted. Thus starting something instead of ignoring it. I'm asking you both to ignore each other and no longer insult one another honestly. Back on topic of GM layout. Go to sl in pms for further stuff if you must. Not on here.
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So for the most part Dark fits all descriptions. Not much to fill out at this point.
Thank you Bocc for once again trying to start something. No. DO NOT do this or I will report you both. Bocc you mostly. Don't start shit. Isa you if you respond ignore him. Moving on.
Dark, I made a topic about him being mod. Thoughts go there. For the most part my 'layout' is fine then?
Thank you Shadow for playing the role of a forum moderator but I would however like to point out that Bocchiere was actually not trying to start something. If for once people would stop looking at others and judging them on their past actions and moreso on their personal feelings against each other, maybe this game would run a little more smoothly?
My point? If you have nothing nice to say, all of you, don't say it at all.
By all means, I'm not done. Wait for my next post now. There's a lot I'm going to address but I needed this out first. It seems we need someone who isn't bias aka a moderator (because that's what we do). Ahem.
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So did Neji ask all the inactive mods then? I know Taraka and Rinoa said they weren't told about it and they are actually active, and that's about 80% of the active mods.
I don't really know...apparently you were lied to by them? If I remember correctly Rinoa WAS part of the small group that decided. I may be wrong, but...let me check to see if I still have the pms.
"""If you get stuff out of context, only parts are seen.
I asked around the mods of suitable new people to hire, two were mentioned and agreed by most.
We had no official "we're hiring" up at this time. When picking one guy, I like it usually faster than skimming through all kinds of applications.
He had the impression he just asked ;) because that's what I wanted him to think. After we already made the decision, he wrote a "make me mod!" mail, and I just wrote "ok".
Now all is in turmoil, and I snicker from time to time about that :P
I don't regularly monitor activity of mods - giving them a bit more freedom than other sites.
Rather a few more and some inactive, than a few who have a tight schedule and a lot on their shoulders."""
Out of my personal messages cause I feel the community who fund and continue this site should know how things are handled. That was with Neji I had one of two others telling me...
Kamui, Taraka, Rinoa, and Zimzamboo were all in the group that I can recall. May be faulty info, but I doubt it.
You fail to realize your error in reading Neji's reply to you, as well as my reply to you and any other moderator's reply to you. We all told you (and it is clear as day in Neji's response) that Nathan was not chosen by the Staff but rather by Neji himself because Nathan asked for it. Yes he mentioned two were agreed upon however neither candidates were Nathan. I am not saying I am displeased with the decision however. I love having Nathan as a fellow staff member. He was though an untraditional choice in the manner he was given his promotion.
Now I can go on and on and quote every single error in all of these lengthy forum posts but I'm not going to do that. I'll just do my very best to address what I wish.
Please recall, players, that Shinobi Legends is a free roleplaying game. The word free does not apply to only the price, but also to how a player can roleplay. This means that we do not limit the creativity or the skills a player wishes to bring to the community. I would only hope that one day our players can function together as a well respected community and understand simple things, however, words on a screen all irk us IRL and that's why we moderators are put in place.
Game masters appointed by the mass of players in my personal opinion seems like a bad idea solely due to the fact that the mass will have a bias and then unfair treatment will be given without control. It will look like "the boy who cried wolf" because the mass will deny that any wrongdoings have occurred. Please note I am giving a negative scenario, not accusing the mass of our community of doing such a thing.
To prevent the bias from occurring, we have moderators and game masters appointed by the owner himself. He at the end of the day makes the decisions.
Now to be in favor of this movement, I would also like to state that I personally believe that this was the Kage's responsibility. In the sense that basically if you want to run a damn village, you best be prepared to interact with all of your villagers and give them stuff to do. Promote activity. It's your village; why let it die? With that being said, if this makes any sense to anyone reading this, why do we need to appoint game masters? It is widely accepted by each individual village as to who the current and/or next kage is; let's leave it at that.
To end on a positive note: I would like to stroke my ego a little and thank you all for saying that I am a good moderator/game master. I personally think I suck because I always try to remain neutral in all regards. I may be friends with like 90% of the community but that doesn't mean I will take sides. But again, thank you.
If there is something I've mentioned but you have questions on, please feel free to directly contact me as all of you have ways of doing so in the immediate sense.
That is all.
Also: I will lock this thread if I see any more issues. Please be courteous to other players. This is a warning.
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Rinoa's reply made me smile. I have to say she makes a lot of sense.
We have very many people...WE ARE IN CONTROL...elite positions out there: Kage, Elite Swordsmen, Primary Village Medic, Arch Villians, ANBU Captains, Jinchuuriki and the like.
These people should be doing their jobs. Stimulating RP and creating activities for people to do.
However, things would go a whole lot smoother if indeed when you have nothing nice to say you just don't say anything at all. WE ALL ARE GUILTY OF THIS. The biggest issue around here that I see is failure to moderate your own behavior.
Someone mentioned it earlier: when a person has been called upon by the community to look into a dispute, if the ruling is not to one's liking it is ignored and the little troll in each and everyone of us comes out to show his behind. Having more people to stand in for this position is not going to make people respect or listen or fail to fit throw when a ruling does not come down in their personal favor.
Self moderation WILL fix this problem though. Review sportsmanlike behavior, I know we all were trained during Kindergarten on how to treat each other.
Personally I believe we CAN work together without someone making a head to rule over us. We have done it in the past on numerous occassions and I still have not lost hope that WE can do this again in the future.
It is way past time to put the ill deeds of others out of our minds and start fresh from today and move forward. Not one of us can claim to have not crossed the line more than once in one way or another. But we CAN all claim a sense of love for SL and the community. Otherwise we would not be here. We CAN claim creativity and a willingness to explore and collaborate. We have done it in the past. We are doing it now. We can get better.
I think it was Genesis who nearly had a heart attack to see Bocchiere and myself RPing one day and getting along in Kirigakure. If we can bury the hatchet...and not in each other's skulls...I see no reason why everyone can not do the same.
We are in real danger of throwing away something unique here through our own stubbornness and childish behaviors that can never be replaced or duplicated. I for one would like to hold onto this make believe world a little longer if that is at all possible. I think you would too.
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Wow seems more like a rally of sorts now. I don't like it. No, back on topic and enough of this self epiphany check yourself ordeal.
I feel like I'm a kid asking his parents about something and neither are wanting me to know so they're both giving me bullshit excuses to keep me pleased.
So Nathan was picked cause he asked, awesome. GG Neji and staff, GG. Though I find that hard to believe. Neji isn't that careless. Is he?
SL isn't free. It's only free due to the players funding it. It's OUR site.
Game Masters appointed by the players is a bad idea? I do no get that. Neji doesn't give much of a care about rp and yet you endorse him appointing GMs instead of the players who are actually in the rp? What? I don't really care who he appoints as mods, just in Nathans case that seems like shit to me how he was promoted. Not saying he's a bad choice. GM's should be the communities choice. The reason is above. Neji doesn't do rp; the community does.
Rinoa you are broadly trying to patch everything in one go. That won't happen as it can't happen. Kage are there to control ranks and, yes do village activities. But when you're a kage you are usually for your own village. You don't see out President going for the Chinese leader. GM's are not what you seem to be describing. We are looking more for RP judges now. We can take care of setting up events ourselves.
Judges if a decision cannot be made by the players involved in the rp will make the decision for them. That's what we mostly want.
We cannot moderate ourselves if we find ourselves to be in the right. We want mods who people respect and listen to, if the majority of the community appoints them there's a better chance of them listening. For the most of what I've seen judges picked by the players ARE being listened to.
I'm done with this for a few moments.
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Does anyone else think this reply was very insulting or am I just being silly?
It does however exemplify the negative behavior I meant when you don't get the answer you wanted.
As I recall Dark started this to talk about GMs not Nathan getting a staff slot. He should have asked for arbitrators, because this seems to be what is meant. A GM stimulates rp...does not play referee. I think we hardly need more targets for people to be nasty to when they don't get their way.
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If you intended for judges then that itself should have been explicitly stated.
However this thread was made for the intent of promoting players within to become Game Masters to promote activity.
Thank you Kay for beating me to it ^^; you said everything I wanted.
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Does anyone else think this reply was very insulting or am I just being silly?
It does however exemplify the negative behavior I meant when you don't get the answer you wanted.
As I recall Dark started this to talk about GMs not Nathan getting a staff slot. He should have asked for arbitrators, because this seems to be what is meant. A GM stimulates rp...does not play referee. I think we hardly need more targets for people to be nasty to when they don't get their way.
You're being silly. I'm a bit irritated, I didn't insult you nor Rinoa in any way, you are both nice girls. I disagree with you on some things. Outside of rp stuff, I could talk to you both quite easily without issues. I don't hold stuff against people for disagreeing on some things. No one should.
Nathan is a bit off topic, yes. But people were trying to mix GM and Mod together. Not the same thing. Anywho, we're using GM cause that's the 'official' title for rp personal. I put GM/Judge cause I'm not sure which to put anymore in some cases.
Refer to my comment on the Darkshinobi as Judge topic.
Players who are arguing; AGREE ON THE SAME JUDGE. When that judge makes a choice about who is right and if a side disagrees then they are SOL. They both agreed on the judge. Just because they didn't get their choice doesn't mean they can go against everyone now.
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I would also like to state off hand and a bit off topic that the Gardens is in fact a legit roleplay section <_<
But carry on, everyone.
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I would also like to state off hand and a bit off topic that the Gardens is in fact a legit roleplay section <_<
But carry on, everyone.
Mainstream fighting isn't in the gardens.
That's for pleasure rp. No one has an issue with that kind.
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Pleasure? Oh baby.
Again, it was off topic and meant to lighten the situation a bit. All of this angst got me hot and heavy at such a late hour.
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Pleasure? Oh baby.
Again, it was off topic and meant to lighten the situation a bit. All of this angst got me hot and heavy at such a late hour.
Priya, please ~ <3
No, but seriously back on topic.
At this point I want judges, not sure about GM's.
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Pleasure? Oh baby.
Again, it was off topic and meant to lighten the situation a bit. All of this angst got me hot and heavy at such a late hour.
Priya, please ~ <3
No, but seriously back on topic.
At this point I want judges, not sure about GM's.
GASP. YOU REVEALED MY IDENTITY. HOW SHALL I EVER LIVE ON - jk.
I agree with a composed list of active role players or even veterans of roleplay (both mods and players alike) to be available as judges for roleplay. Granted, all must agree to it (those in the list). This is a good idea. Of course, when it gets out of hand, it goes up to a moderator that is either on or off the list. If not both. For unbiased conclusions.
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Pleasure? Oh baby.
Again, it was off topic and meant to lighten the situation a bit. All of this angst got me hot and heavy at such a late hour.
Priya, please ~ <3
No, but seriously back on topic.
At this point I want judges, not sure about GM's.
GASP. YOU REVEALED MY IDENTITY. HOW SHALL I EVER LIVE ON - jk.
I agree with a composed list of active role players or even veterans of roleplay (both mods and players alike) to be available as judges for roleplay. Granted, all must agree to it (those in the list). This is a good idea. Of course, when it gets out of hand, it goes up to a moderator that is either on or off the list. If not both. For unbiased conclusions.
I agree with the list. That last bit though....moderator. I think it should then go to a few judges not just one mod.
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Hence the if not both, for an unbiased conclusion.
It's a last resort kind of thing when things get out of hand. You'll have a moderator who is clued in about roleplay, and a moderator who isn't active with roleplay and will most likely have a different perspective on the scenario.
Again, that last bit is a last resort scenario. Or it could work as a council among the list, albeit that process of decision making and judging could take an extensive amount of time.
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I think that is a good idea. A varied perspective should keep things fair.
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Alright alright, so let me get this straight. What "we" want is a group of people to act as judges over RP, overall, is that what I am getting?
Don't we already appointed judges when we can't solve things between ourselves? Don't we already have issues appointing judges when two separate RP streams come together in that rare instance?
What new, novel idea is being proposed here? That a consistent, set group of judges be established rather than one to be called upon in the hour of need? How in the blue blazes is the community going to vote when almost half of it does not even bother coming to the forums?
Have a MoTD in-game style voting system? Blogs? Posts in the village boards?
My negative put onto the table, I do see another light to what is being suggested, and it might be what is actually be asked for. Judges to be voted on right at the start of a RP, rather than halfway in. And while I am less opposed to that, I have to ask why a topic would even be needed to bring that up, as already a judge is called upon when RP conflict emerge.
Whether said judge is agreed upon by everyone in the RP is up for a coin toss, as it goes situation by situation (and the size of the RP), but I missed the Wario bucket on this one. Not to mention I would prefer a judge not involved in the RP to be making decisions on it. And I mean, really, not involved at all. :roll:
...I think it was Genesis who nearly had a heart attack to see Bocchiere and myself RPing one day and getting along in Kirigakure. If we can bury the hatchet...and not in each other's skulls...I see no reason why everyone can not do the same...
I am willing to bet that it was not a RP fight that you two managed to get along in. While I agree with the idea that we need to bury the hatchet, the only time the hatchet even comes out is in a RP fight (or zone fight occasionally). Otherwise, either nothing is being done or folks are getting along (exceptions always exist).
When two groups start to zone, that's when things get tricky. Hence, the need for judges/referees. The issue is not how we RP in general, but in how we fight each other (IC and OOC too).
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I don't know why we need set judges. If you need to call upon a "set" judge, you're honestly being childish. I've had no problem with really any rp. If any problems arose, I or my opponent simply asked to get a judge. We would spit names back and forth and agree on one, and their decision was law and we'd move on.
I don't even bother to argue anymore, and it's very discouraging when I see them on public boards, just loads of ooc complaining. Just pick a judge and be done with. The only way this doesn't work is if someone refused to agree upon a judge, or didn't like their decision (which is tough luck for them and warrants an auto-victory if they're being that difficult).
I guess I wouldn't mind set judges to go to, but it just seems unnecessary. I'd rather mutually pick one with my opponent.
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I'm not moving towards a 'set'. I'm moving towards verified community picked judges that will get the job done if the job is needed to be done. Instead of the two picking someone they thought was competent and then finding out that he/she wasn't. These people are to be known and trusted by the community to effectively get stuff done. There doesn't have to be a number limit or anything and no one has to pick these people. However you should pick these people.
Darkshinobi is the only one I, or anyone put up as I guess they're waiting on me to make another topic for another candidate. Dark for the matter is by far being voted for instead of against as he fits all the things we listed as looked for when one becomes a 'judge'. One of the main reasons I've picked Dark before anyone else. He. Does. Not. Argue. With. Others. He's very logical and I'm about to start going on another fangirl rampage here, point is you all know how he is and that's why he was an obvious pick.
Also if you want someone to be voted, make a topic for em. :P
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He. Does. Not. Argue. With. Others.
This is a reason against Dark, in my opinion. Argument and debate are one thing; harassment is another. Argument and debate allow the topic at hands to be refined; harassment is filled with ad hominem, abuse, etc.
There is a fine line between argument and abuse. If someone doesn't argue, that is a bad thing; it means their statements must be coming out of nowhere and are completely unrefined.
People who can't handle argument due to their sensitivity are even worse because they get offended by someone trying to refine a topic with them, which then turns into abuse in retaliation against argument presumed abuse.
We are on a text-based game. We have to use our words carefully in order to be effective. That involves arguing, but doesn't involve abuse. As long as people begin to understand that argument about refining and answering questions is necessary and stop getting upset about it, we won't need judges at all.
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He. Does. Not. Argue. With. Others.
This is a reason against Dark, in my opinion. Argument and debate are one thing; harassment is another. Argument and debate allow the topic at hands to be refined; harassment is filled with ad hominem, abuse, etc.
There is a fine line between argument and abuse. If someone doesn't argue, that is a bad thing; it means their statements must be coming out of nowhere and are completely unrefined.
People who can't handle argument due to their sensitivity are even worse because they get offended by someone trying to refine a topic with them, which then turns into abuse in retaliation against argument presumed abuse.
We are on a text-based game. We have to use our words carefully in order to be effective. That involves arguing, but doesn't involve abuse. As long as people begin to understand that argument about refining and answering questions is necessary and stop getting upset about it, we won't need judges at all.
Isa it isn't being meant that way. He doesn't argue. That's not against him, it's FOR him.
Simple arguing on here often escalates to levels where it becomes full circle 'he said; she said' We don't need a judge doing that. Dark negates arguing in that he won't even if the others want to initiate it against him, he won't budge. He's not sensitive or anything else. Take me for example I've been debating with everyone on every single topic, but I won't argue with you all. Debate; that's it.
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He. Does. Not. Argue. With. Others.
This is a reason against Dark, in my opinion. Argument and debate are one thing; harassment is another. Argument and debate allow the topic at hands to be refined; harassment is filled with ad hominem, abuse, etc.
There is a fine line between argument and abuse. If someone doesn't argue, that is a bad thing; it means their statements must be coming out of nowhere and are completely unrefined.
People who can't handle argument due to their sensitivity are even worse because they get offended by someone trying to refine a topic with them, which then turns into abuse in retaliation against argument presumed abuse.
We are on a text-based game. We have to use our words carefully in order to be effective. That involves arguing, but doesn't involve abuse. As long as people begin to understand that argument about refining and answering questions is necessary and stop getting upset about it, we won't need judges at all.
Isa it isn't being meant that way. He doesn't argue. That's not against him, it's FOR him.
Simple arguing on here often escalates to levels where it becomes full circle 'he said; she said' We don't need a judge doing that. Dark negates arguing in that he won't even if the others want to initiate it against him, he won't budge. He's not sensitive or anything else. Take me for example I've been debating with everyone on every single topic, but I won't argue with you all. Debate; that's it.
Should I get the princess and the frog quote and change it around?
Argue, debate it's all the same thing yes?
No! *whacks with stick and launches into song about whatcha need*
On a serious note, what I think ShadowX meant is that Dark does not go back and forth. He states his point and goes about his business.
Granted, it has been forever, if ever, since I have fought Dark, so I can't verify said claim that he does not at all argue with folks. However, I do know him well enough to say that he is not one to let a pickaxe dig a mine.
We debate things on the forum all the time. We argue too. Sometimes (more often than not if it's a fight we're going over) jabs are taken and all that stuff typical of people.
I'm not moving towards a 'set'. I'm moving towards verified community picked judges that will get the job done if the job is needed to be done. Instead of the two picking someone they thought was competent and then finding out that he/she wasn't...
You don't want a set group of folks to be called on for judging, but you do want a set group of folks to be called on for judging. Huh? While not "set" in stone (excuse my poor attempt at wordplay) verified community judges and "set" community judges are one in the same. In which see previous post for my opinion on that.
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He. Does. Not. Argue. With. Others.
This is a reason against Dark, in my opinion. Argument and debate are one thing; harassment is another. Argument and debate allow the topic at hands to be refined; harassment is filled with ad hominem, abuse, etc.
There is a fine line between argument and abuse. If someone doesn't argue, that is a bad thing; it means their statements must be coming out of nowhere and are completely unrefined.
People who can't handle argument due to their sensitivity are even worse because they get offended by someone trying to refine a topic with them, which then turns into abuse in retaliation against argument presumed abuse.
We are on a text-based game. We have to use our words carefully in order to be effective. That involves arguing, but doesn't involve abuse. As long as people begin to understand that argument about refining and answering questions is necessary and stop getting upset about it, we won't need judges at all.
Isa it isn't being meant that way. He doesn't argue. That's not against him, it's FOR him.
Simple arguing on here often escalates to levels where it becomes full circle 'he said; she said' We don't need a judge doing that. Dark negates arguing in that he won't even if the others want to initiate it against him, he won't budge. He's not sensitive or anything else. Take me for example I've been debating with everyone on every single topic, but I won't argue with you all. Debate; that's it.
Should I get the princess and the frog quote and change it around?
Argue, debate it's all the same thing yes?
No! *whacks with stick and launches into song about whatcha need*
On a serious note, what I think ShadowX meant is that Dark does not go back and forth. He states his point and goes about his business.
Granted, it has been forever, if ever, since I have fought Dark, so I can't verify said claim that he does not at all argue with folks. However, I do know him well enough to say that he is not one to let a pickaxe dig a mine.
We debate things on the forum all the time. We argue too. Sometimes (more often than not if it's a fight we're going over) jabs are taken and all that stuff typical of people.
I'm not moving towards a 'set'. I'm moving towards verified community picked judges that will get the job done if the job is needed to be done. Instead of the two picking someone they thought was competent and then finding out that he/she wasn't...
You don't want a set group of folks to be called on for judging, but you do want a set group of folks to be called on for judging. Huh? While not "set" in stone (excuse my poor attempt at wordplay) verified community judges and "set" community judges are one in the same. In which see previous post for my opinion on that.
All of what you said except by 'set' is I don't want people to think those are the only ones they can go to. Those are just the verified ones.
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So, what's so special about being verified then? :o
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So, what's so special about being verified then? :o
Players know you can be trusted more so than others.
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So, what's so special about being verified then? :o
Players know you can be trusted more so than others.
If we have to take a vote on that sort of thing, then I question the legitimacy of said verified chars. Among the judges both verified and not, there are certain views on how RP should be dictated; they may or may not adapt to the party in question in doing so.
What I am getting at is that people already know who they would pick as a judge; verifying seems both unnecessary and a sort of uncalled for propping for certain players. Some are more suitable for judging RP than others, but this "verification by community vote" feels like a way of discounting decent, unbaised judges in favor of the ones who are verified of sorts.
Which, again, is a bit unecessary imho.
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So, what's so special about being verified then? :o
Players know you can be trusted more so than others.
If we have to take a vote on that sort of thing, then I question the legitimacy of said verified chars. Among the judges both verified and not, there are certain views on how RP should be dictated; they may or may not adapt to the party in question in doing so.
What I am getting at is that people already know who they would pick as a judge; verifying seems both unnecessary and a sort of uncalled for propping for certain players. Some are more suitable for judging RP than others, but this "verification by community vote" feels like a way of discounting decent, unbaised judges in favor of the ones who are verified of sorts.
Which, again, is a bit unecessary imho.
Rp isn't so vastly different that it needs to be dictated differently. There are details that impact the decision, yes. They get to pick the judge as always.
What's the point of verifying anything then? In this case it's to let players who may not know who to trust, have people they can turn to. Sure people like you and I are well adapted in who to trust as a judge and who not to. However not everyone is us.
Verified = You can trust this player, known by the community, ect.
Once again not everyone knows. Some rando could pose and be like I'm so good at rp and can judge really great, yet they can't.
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So, what's so special about being verified then? :o
Players know you can be trusted more so than others.
If we have to take a vote on that sort of thing, then I question the legitimacy of said verified chars. Among the judges both verified and not, there are certain views on how RP should be dictated; they may or may not adapt to the party in question in doing so.
What I am getting at is that people already know who they would pick as a judge; verifying seems both unnecessary and a sort of uncalled for propping for certain players. Some are more suitable for judging RP than others, but this "verification by community vote" feels like a way of discounting decent, unbaised judges in favor of the ones who are verified of sorts.
Which, again, is a bit unecessary imho.
Rp isn't so vastly different that it needs to be dictated differently. There are details that impact the decision, yes. They get to pick the judge as always.
What's the point of verifying anything then? In this case it's to let players who may not know who to trust, have people they can turn to. Sure people like you and I are well adapted in who to trust as a judge and who not to. However not everyone is us.
Verified = You can trust this player, known by the community, ect.
Once again not everyone knows. Some rando could pose and be like I'm so good at rp and can judge really great, yet they can't.
So in essence, it is for the newer players to know who to turn to if they are scoodled on who can decide/judge a fight for them? At this point, all I have left is nitpick, so I suppose there is not much of an argument I can put up against that in particular. For the newbies ahoy I guess.
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8) I am too cool, and by cool, I mean busy, to be super RP active, though I am active in RP on a certain alt or two. Just night in the limelight main war scene.
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I am not against the idea of having community chosen people.
Why I am hesitant is relatively easy: it might incite a discussion about power - and of groups forming up for either the one or the other GM candidate.
Then we have the entire discussion on "how to RP" taken to the next level.
I really dislike to make RP being rule-bound. It is the participating parties that make good RP possible. /game is only a very minor command you can use. GMs can not do much more.
At best chosen GMs are not the ones who are the most active or the ones who people vote in (*hint* politicians *hint*) but those are the best fit.
The general /game ability should stick to only a few ones, possibly nominated by moderators.
Usually it worked really well these past years.
For special zones I am open to put suggestions in here.
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And if it's anything about FTG. You will be over-ruled.
xD
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Forgive me if this was mentioned as I only read some of the comments on the first page, but wouldn't be easier if the GMs that active people that are periodically chosen. This is what I mean....
Neji can release a list of top 20 (or top 30) most active people on SL in the past 6 months. We vote for 4 people from that list to be GMs for 3 or 4 months. Then at the end of their term, Neji releases another list of most active SL members and again, we choose 4 from that list.
Because in the end, you can choose whoever you want as GM but if you're not going to be active long, then you will just encounter the same problem over and over again. At least this way, you are guarantee a set of active GMs.
Now, is there a chance that top active people are not even RPers (you know, people who come to only chat and/or use turns)? Of course, but then we have a short RP guide that they can read (or someone can make RP guidelines that GMs will use to judge a post). But for now, let's assume the odds of that happening are nearly 0%. >.>
This idea assumes that Neji can find out who is the most active members on SL and release that information. And of course, this is a basic idea that needs more details but we can all talk about that later if the majority agrees to this idea. >.>
#ShinobiDemocracy