Shinobi Legends Forum

Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Council => Topic started by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 05, 2015, 11:29:14 PM

Title: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 05, 2015, 11:29:14 PM
I think that if we are having preference lists, then they should be reasonable. Is this something that the council should approve for each host?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Bocchiere on December 05, 2015, 11:32:10 PM
That seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Hitler-Chan on December 06, 2015, 12:23:22 AM
Sounds fair to me. Keep hosts from banning out all of the KG that they don't use. :O
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 06, 2015, 01:35:10 AM
I feel that it would also keep both hosts and challengers from employing questionable techs.

To list a set of voids assumes one will not be using them as a host either.

Preferences would not just be for void lists.

They could also include having techs that are claimed be substantiated by some RP sense.

Just as Bocc proposed in the beast proficiency clause, proving in RP that number of tails was earned, so too could jutsu claimed be requested to be justified.

I say I am a fuuijutsu master.

Really? well...when did that happen? where did it occur? Or did you just suddenly make a character who was built that way?

I don't want to derail the topic with those issues, but to merely suggest that as hosts who make preference lists...we do have the chance to stear RP in general toward a more legitimized trend where claims make sense for everyone...just by example of the standard an elite warrior follows.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 06, 2015, 04:01:39 AM
I think that if we are having preference lists, then they should be reasonable. Is this something that the council should approve for each host?

IF we are going to have preference lists that are truly preferences and not stipulations, then there is no need for Council approval.

If preference list are going to be stipulations, then not only would I oppose having them at all, I also think that the Council should be able to demand that the lists be changed/redone if it is clear that they too heavily bias for the host when put into actual practice.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Warren on December 06, 2015, 05:06:41 AM
A somewhat related question.

Should one be forced to have a preference or whatever-list, if it ends up being something people can't just throw out the window and have to adhere to?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Court on December 06, 2015, 05:49:22 AM
Seems fine to me, but it might depend on the nature of the fight preference (OOC/IC) - OOC seems like it could have a variety of options, as opposed to IC where you fight with everything your character has, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Mortiferous on December 06, 2015, 06:06:25 AM
I have a question as well: what if the host prefers to keep things simple vs an all out battle, should they be a rather 'simple' character and not one with many KG?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: UettoSenju on December 06, 2015, 06:14:24 AM
Yes. But like Court said when it comes to IC things you must accept what the general public would I believe. The main reason being it is IC rp and their character shouldn't be limited when it comes to their official rp.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: UettoSenju on December 06, 2015, 06:20:38 AM
I'd like to note you are only to post a vote in these vote topic and short description Ace stated. I presume this will be deleted after all other non-vote post have been.

Anything to be discussed should be done in discussion topics.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 06, 2015, 06:37:15 AM
I would like to note as per the title, this is  a discussion thread.

*pats Kirk on the head and gives him a cookie*
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Suishou Koji on December 06, 2015, 07:27:51 AM
I really like the idea of preference lists. I feel things would run smoothly if other knew how the host got this certain technique, nature, kg, etc. 
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: UettoSenju on December 06, 2015, 08:52:27 AM
I would like to note as per the title, this is  a discussion thread.

*pats Kirk on the head and gives him a cookie*

Did that thing get edited? I swear it read vote when I read it. I feel so stupid lol.

Sorry to get off topic I am just speechless really as to what I was reading. Damn, dyslexia making me do that guess reading bs again lol. You know I don't fully read stuff at times but rather my mind guesses at what it says however in my mind I read it fully.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 06, 2015, 06:22:19 PM
I really like the idea of preference lists. I feel things would run smoothly if other knew how the host got this certain technique, nature, kg, etc.

Are you talking about preference lists or some kind of justification for abilities list? Because preference lists traditionally have not provided backings for the host's powers.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 06, 2015, 06:52:00 PM
Overall, I am looking at the thread which a host keeps, as being a catch all of information.
They could provide a short bio, which would provide a resume of sorts for skills and abilities.
They would contain a preference list, with the understanding that these do not negate the official bijuu rules: is - Well I prefer to take 6 weeks for a grace period...uhm, no.
They would contain a challenge list for OOC matches, current hunters for IC hunts, and an activity log to prove the activity clause is being met. They would contain notifications of challenge by prospective contestants, notifications of who is up next on the roster. That acknowledgement that notification has been received that you mentioned elsewhere in the discussion. They could contain number of tails mastered and notifications of intended absences. They could also contain notification of training sessions...

ex: between matches...I am taking 3 days off to heal and commune with my beast.

anyway, the preference list is just one post of information contained in the host thread. some bits would be required, others would be optional. Shoot, they could contain recipes for their host's favorite ramen.

Also Eric, I forget where the question was asked, but I referred to something as idle time. And you questioned what was the point of that? When I said idle time, I meant--the time in which a host is not actively defending his beast. And there will be times this occurs. not all beasts even have people on their challenge lists. But during that time, when they are not engaged in combat for the beast, they are idle from their commitment, so to speak...and must still maintain activity with an rp post every 14 days minimum.

I also had a typo somewhere and spelled stripped as striped? It might actually be fun to stripe a host for offences. Like with a whip? But that might be stretching things...
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 07, 2015, 02:54:53 AM
... Like with a whip? But that might be stretching things...

That's what she said.  :twisted:

Quote
They would contain a preference list, with the understanding that these do not negate the official bijuu rules

So what power, if any, does the preference list actually have?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 07, 2015, 07:59:50 AM
To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: UettoSenju on December 07, 2015, 08:48:36 AM
To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

this
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 07, 2015, 03:48:19 PM
To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

Do the challengers get to state what they are not putting up with either? Cause unless the challengers have their own preference list this "i'm not putting up with this and this and this" attitude steers us dangerously close to the hosts dictating what the challengers can and can't do. And I am not okay with that, for historical reasons.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Hades on December 07, 2015, 06:58:57 PM
To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

Do the challengers get to state what they are not putting up with either? Cause unless the challengers have their own preference list this "i'm not putting up with this and this and this" attitude steers us dangerously close to the hosts dictating what the challengers can and can't do. And I am not okay with that, for historical reasons.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 07, 2015, 07:42:45 PM
I was thinking that challengers would not have to announce their preferences for the general public to peruse...no one if checking them out to see if they wish to approach them and challenge them for a bijuu.

To have that listed for the hosts makes sense with regards to that issue though. People who are shopping, as it were, for a bijuu can check the hosts out and see which ones look like the best set up for their own preferences, of which a challenger is very much aware.

During the pre-fight terms, the challenger will be discussing his preferences with the host. So it is not going to be a secret.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 07, 2015, 11:22:28 PM
I was thinking that challengers would not have to announce their preferences for the general public to peruse...no one if checking them out to see if they wish to approach them and challenge them for a bijuu.

To have that listed for the hosts makes sense with regards to that issue though. People who are shopping, as it were, for a bijuu can check the hosts out and see which ones look like the best set up for their own preferences, of which a challenger is very much aware.

During the pre-fight terms, the challenger will be discussing his preferences with the host. So it is not going to be a secret.

But what kind of power do these preferences have? Let's say hypothetically that I rejoin The Akatsuki and try to help get the tailed beasts back. Perusing through the lists, I see someone who seems like someone I can take on (preferably someone who is not already famaliar with my battle style, because as my last biju match demonstrates that is a flaw of being a true specialist in something) but they have a bajillion (relatively) things that they prefer not to RP with. For example, custom space-time ninjutsu.

Eric is hampered by not being able to use shadow migration, shadow hell, shadow hell seal, etc.. Are you saying that I should pick another host because if the target refuses to negotiate that away (looking at my past fights and determining that keeping that is pivotal to their success)? Because if so, that preferences list is practically a list of demands.

I would rather there be actual rules on how to fight or hunt for a tailed beast battle and everyone follows "those" preferences. If the preferences list can just be shat on (pardon the language) by a challenger who doesn't wanna play ball, what is the point in having it in the first place?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Bocchiere on December 07, 2015, 11:42:28 PM
I think the point of the preference list should be like Eric mentioned. It lets you window shop. If I see a Jinchuriki who has an immense rule set up in his challenge list about how he wants the entire fight to be a game of Texas Hold Em I'm probably going to save that nut for later.

Neither the host nor the challenger should be able to dictate anything for certain, it all has to be decided between the two of them.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 08, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
As to the point of the question, "What power do preference lists have"

I believe that they have NO power...but they show a PREFERENCE the host has when it come to setting terms of the match...they serve as a means to provide information to potential challengers who are shopping for a host to challenge.

If the need to define 'preferences' exists, then I feel it should be added to the rule section pertaining to making a forum account (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8699.0.html) inserted in the part that talks about posting a list of preferences.

We may wish to move toward making at least one of these vote topics concluded in order to not have to rehash each aspect over and over. Currently we have no rules that have been adopted. As seen here in this proposed rule on how to make a challenge (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8703.0.html), failure to come to terms on the particulars of a match will require the council to step in.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Eric on December 08, 2015, 01:13:50 AM

...I believe that they have NO power...but they show a PREFERENCE the host has when it come to setting terms of the match...they serve as a means to provide information to potential challengers who are shopping for a host to challenge...


So, a shopper can just change the price and go to the checkout counter anyways? What's the point of the price tag then? Can't it just be negotiated at the register?

This "negotiate the terms of the RP", how does on actually go about it, at this point? I want this, Bocc wants that, neither of us wants to give up this nor that. What then?

I have an idea. Instead of a useless preference list, why not just have official rules on how to set up the matches. Because there is currently no reason (other than risk of some consequence, I'm not entirely sure I recall what the proposed penalty for neither side coming together on Hunt terms is) for a challenger and host who cannot agree on anything, to agree to anything!
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 08, 2015, 02:16:03 AM
I like people who cannot agree on anything, and even after an third party is brought in to help facilitate an agreement and they still refuse to agree to terms for the match, getting a 3 month ban from participation: stripping the beast and not being able to make challenges for both parties. This 3 month ban does not include serving as a council member.

This would serve as a deterrent for being stiff necked and failing to work toward compromise.

I am not a stickler on mandatory preference lists. People have been using them for a while, so I was making accommodations for that trend. But preferences, if they will exist on paper or just through verbal discussions at the time of pre-match arrangements, do not supersede bijuu rules.

This assumes that we successfully agree upon a set of rules, and then a clause is made that it is the understanding that by participating in all things bijuu, you as the host, challenger, judge, council member do agree to following these terms.

"I have read and agree to the terms of service."

Might a host have valid objections to meeting a challenger in battle due to some serious flaws in the RP of the challenger? Sure...happens all the time. But they can go through the RP anyway. Such a problem will reveal itself during the match and can be dealt with at that time without the host risking being stripped for failure to accept all challenges. And if not, then the host's objections did not exhibit themselves and it turned out fine in the end.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Raifudo Oppa on December 08, 2015, 04:13:50 AM
Hey everyone
Quite honestly, preferences are cool and all but at the end of the day it's a huge effort to maintain between challenger and host. Just yesterday I was all up for a preferences list as a host should be able to determine the clause for what they're defending, ultimately it's theirs already and should be able to advocate what they want in a match to make it as exciting or as enjoyable for them as they can (fairly) make it. However, now that I think about it-- a standardized template can be considered with possible changes to it. Such as a preset of things they can void, but they also don't want mystery posts where people are vague about what happens so that it can happen in the future to whatever suits the need.

What if we do a point system? Like, extremely rough draft (making it as I write) but the host has 3 points to allocate in things they don't want.

Now, it's a given that things such as Swift Release, Izanami, etc. are frowned upon by many in an IC perspective, so a preset void list can just be thrown out there without costing points. Now, the host HAS to negotiate with certain things. Such as:

Challenger likes to use explosion release, dust release, rinnegan with paths, and a sage mode boost.

Well, the host doesn't like that one bit, but can use points to say he doesn't want rinnegan at all in the fight. I guess challengers may have points too? I dunno, think of it like using money to barter for an item you want. The buyer wants less, the seller wants more. End of the day, middle grounds is only met by a give and take that both agree on.

I'll expand on this more later tonight as I'm at work right now and can't invest that much time atm.

Edit: Steel > *Izanami.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Bocchiere on December 08, 2015, 04:48:36 AM
That sounds interesting. Who has problems with Steel Release though?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Raifudo Oppa on December 08, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
That sounds interesting. Who has problems with Steel Release though?

Honestly, I don't remember why I said steel release. I didn't even mean that one.

Got home pretty late last night so I'll be working on a rough draft for the point system throughout the day.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 08, 2015, 09:39:50 PM
I like the notion that each person, the host and challenger, can have 3 voids that they may or may not wish to use. I mean especially when it comes to custom KG and such. How would you even know to void my mind control auto-hitting death ray lazer eyes KG in the first place?
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Bocchiere on December 09, 2015, 02:01:32 AM
I like the notion that each person, the host and challenger, can have 3 voids that they may or may not wish to use. I mean especially when it comes to custom KG and such. How would you even know to void my mind control auto-hitting death ray lazer eyes KG in the first place?

Maybe one point for a certain thing. Like on KG void, one void on custom techniques. Stuff like that. And it should be a void for something specific enough. Like you should not be able to ban Ninjutsu entirely or something like that.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 09, 2015, 03:25:33 AM
certainly not void it... but if both parties agree to a bare knuckles fist fight, then that is acceptable.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Bocchiere on December 09, 2015, 03:45:42 AM
certainly not void it... but if both parties agree to a bare knuckles fist fight, then that is acceptable.

Well I think anything they both agree to is fine. If they want to rp a game of chutes and ladders then be my guest.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: Warren on December 09, 2015, 07:02:49 AM
This is stretching on and general consensus seems to be there's no point having them approved, because they won't hold any adamant power.

So how about leaving this here and making a separate one for Raifudo's thing to see if it holds merit.
Title: Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
Post by: KayentaMoenkopi on December 09, 2015, 08:15:57 AM
I am cool with that.