Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Bijuu Arena => Topic started by: Eric on September 03, 2015, 02:09:51 AM
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... So many hosts (and even challengers) either pick and choose what rules to follow, apply interpretations that are all over the place, or just don't follow the rules at all. And it defeats the purpose of having rules and punishing people over them...
Since I got started, I just have to know. Is there anyone serious out there about just getting rid of the tailed beast rules altogether? Put it all back to a free-for-all? Because as said above, if the rules aren't going to be followed or are going to be interpreted to oblivion, why even bother having them at all?
Food for thought.
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I've always been for banning Bijuu's in the first place... It honestly comes down to the people and how they act about it. Take Athos... I just asked him and bam instant fight.. though that's for different reasons.
I say make it a Free For ALL!!!!
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Doesn't care.
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Doesn't care.
If you haven't got anything nice to say, or that will contribute to the topic, shush up.
Honestly. With people already abusing and bending the rules to their liking, I've said a million times in the past few months, that major changes and amendments to the rules must be made to not only protect the hosts, but the challengers rights.
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Honestly, a free for all is what I want >_>
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Does that mean everything is IC? or everything is OOC? Idk, but I like fighting stuff so leggo on that free for all status.
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Sounds fun.
(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/nothing-is-true-everything-is-permitted-17.png)
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Does that mean everything is IC? or everything is OOC? Idk, but I like fighting stuff so leggo on that free for all status.
It means all IC, basically. A free for all. Like that time you and those other two attacked Uzushio. Then I got back-up and we had a that six man fight that was badass xD
FREE FOR ALL!!!
If we get all the Jincks to agree, it'll actually be a thing <<
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Doesn't care.
If you haven't got anything nice to say, or that will contribute to the topic, shush up.
Honestly. With people already abusing and bending the rules to their liking, I've said a million times in the past few months, that major changes and amendments to the rules must be made to not only protect the hosts, but the challengers rights.
That actually is a contribution, as it states her stance on the topic. No need to tell her to hush up. I was looking for where people were at regarding the rules, and so far, I've got "free-for-all return", "amend", and "I don't care".
Free-for-all will make challenge lists, biju rules completely null, meaning competing RP standards will be the "guide" on how biju fights are fought out. I should have clarified that in my first post so that we're all on the same page on what that really means.
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At this point none of them are worth keeping except discussing strips on forum if someone goes inactive, because lets be honest. Nobody gives a damn of the things, they're just a headache, and the only time anyone tries to enforce them said person always only tries to loophole it and or bend them to suit only their own purposes.
Simpler said, get rid of em except for inactivity strips.
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Is it even worth keeping the strip rules? If somebody goes inactive, we can have a bunch of people claim the beast as theirs, then fight over who really has it. If nobody gets it resolved, we have multiple jinchs and move on with our lives, accepting whoever and whatever we want to accept like we do with most other RP.
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or we just get rid of the bijuu in the first place..
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or we just get rid of the bijuu in the first place..
I was actually thinking about this.
I know it's been brought up a number of times and shot down.
But really, what if we just stop keeping a list of who has the ten of them?
Let anyone who wants to claim a beast, claim a beast. (Maybe just not the ten-tails).
Why is letting anyone who wants to have kyūbi and all subsequent powers any different than letting anyone who wants to have rinnegan have it?
We let anyone have the beasts like we let anyone have rinnegan, and we say no to the ten-tails the way we say no to rinne sharingan.
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Do away with all of it then, challenges, strips, whatever.
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YES!!! *Jumps up and down and proceeds to do the snoopy dance* Good bye Bijuu
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I wouldn't do away with the beasts themselves because they're one of the core pieces of canon lore remaining, but the rules have GOT to go.
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or we just get rid of the bijuu in the first place..
I was actually thinking about this.
I know it's been brought up a number of times and shot down.
But really, what if we just stop keeping a list of who has the ten of them?
Let anyone who wants to claim a beast, claim a beast. (Maybe just not the ten-tails).
Why is letting anyone who wants to have kyūbi and all subsequent powers any different than letting anyone who wants to have rinnegan have it?
We let anyone have the beasts like we let anyone have rinnegan, and we say no to the ten-tails the way we say no to rinne sharingan.
Both ideas sound good actually. >.>
For nine tails, don't include kurama mode and w/e, and it might work. -shrug-
Who knows? Maybe not a lot of people would even claim to have a bijuu. >.>
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*continues to snoopy dance* I mean honestly it's really just gonna be like drugs... legalize it and no one wants it. >.> so kick them to the curve
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(http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/3702766.jpg)
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We could just give them all to Yujo.
I'd actually want them on my Rusaku account.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
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Quite so. Its been amply proven the rules basically don't exist anymore, never really did, outside of a select few who keep trying to use them to force things to go their way to the point some people get physically sick over the level of harassing they have to deal with.
There's effectively zero real merit to keeping them anymore.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Either get rid of the bijuus or follow the rules. There's no in-betweens. >.>
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Quite so. Its been amply proven the rules basically don't exist anymore, never really did, outside of a select few who keep trying to use them to force things to go their way to the point some people get physically sick over the level of harassing they have to deal with.
There's effectively zero real merit to keeping them anymore.
So then all matches would have to be IC, which means hosts will hide in their villages, never to be fought for or changed hands, and if anyone, and I mean anyone brings up the fact, that you can go attack a village, I BEG of you to go and attack Kiri. Please tell me how that works for ya. ;P
Unless we go back to the old ways, Bijuu challenges. All challenges must be accepted, regardless, fought on 'equal' grounds with an agreed upon judge.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Either get rid of the bijuus or follow the rules. There's no in-betweens. >.>
I'd say get rid of them. Blam! One less headache and pain in the ass we don't have to deal with. All this bickering about it is mainly pointless.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Either get rid of the bijuus or follow the rules. There's no in-betweens. >.>
I'd say get rid of them. Blam! One less headache and pain in the ass we don't have to deal with. All this bickering about it is mainly pointless.
Mainly pointless to those who do not care about the bijuu, and the fun they bring to RP when you aren't dealing with the bitching.
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I don't know about you, but I'm not throwing rules away just for them to be replaced with ones just as bad if not worse, I'm done with rules -_-' like I legit don't don't give a flying frack anymore, I'm so done with people trying to feed me completely illogical BS about what I'm allowed to do and what not that I could throw up. I'm going to keep doing what I have so far, and if judging from lack of basically anything but positive comments outside of eric and the debacle with athos I won't go into, I've been doing a pretty goddamn banging job at it too.
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Either get rid of the bijuus or follow the rules. There's no in-betweens. >.>
I'd say get rid of them. Blam! One less headache and pain in the ass we don't have to deal with. All this bickering about it is mainly pointless.
Mainly pointless to those who do not care about the bijuu, and the fun they bring to RP when you aren't dealing with the bitching.
Like me >.> I have gone out of my way time and time again to point out what the Six Tails means to me and my IC character. Plus, it makes little to no sense, either way.
What pisses me off is people take a Bijuu, knowing full well that someone is going to want to fight them for it, at least ONE person and then they go out their way to try not to defend it. One of the WHOLE points to having a Bijuu is defending it. It literally comes in the job description.
As much as I want everything to be IC, because like Rusaku, I like a good fight. And because it'd actually prompt RP, we have already been given several situations where the IC rule is being abused :/
And yet, people go ahead and ignore the rules, anyway. So even when someone is IC, which is suppose to be fun and not making people jump trough hoops, it is made into hell.
Is there even a happy way to go about this?
We make more rules, more rules get ignored and more arguments and bitch-fits are soon to follow.
We will all have to be lawyers by the end of all this, having to remember all the rules and citations to protect and defend ourselves.
@Warren
Still the only person to really fight you >> And if you never fight someone again, I get to take that to my grave. One hellova title xDD
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I don't know about you, but I'm not throwing rules away just for them to be replaced with ones just as bad if not worse, I'm done with rules -_-' like I legit don't don't give a flying frack anymore, I'm so done with people trying to feed me completely illogical BS about what I'm allowed to do and what not that I could throw up. I'm going to keep doing what I have so far, and if judging from lack of basically anything but positive comments outside of eric and the debacle with athos I won't go into, I've been doing a pretty goddamn banging job at it too.
-Hears the distinct tune of blowing one's own horn-
But you chose to accept the bijuu, nobody forced it into you like a cookie at grandma's house. And with that came a set of rules and obligations that simply because they are tying you down, aren't applicable anymore?
I do agree with what Athos says here, and it basically summed up my post, "What pisses me off is people take a Bijuu, knowing full well that someone is going to want to fight them for it, at least ONE person and then they go out their way to try not to defend it. One of the WHOLE points to having a Bijuu is defending it. It literally comes in the job description."
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so RP for it.
And in the far off land of Amegakure, a lone Kaguya rises from her mausoleum calling out one name...
No, because people and villages will make it impossible to even get past the front gates, and we all know that to be a fact, at this point if you refute that, you are a completely dumb.
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Just ban the damn things. I mean t this pint they seem to cause nothing but trouble among the community cause people see themadthis huge power up and think they have to act like kindergartens to get them.
I mean if the community could be civil about the issue the there wouldn't be this topic to start with.
Or just make them strictly IC things. No rules needed. You want one todo ding the host and taking it. Simple really. To scared to face a village? Oh well then.
That brings them closer to cannon anyways. A village in the manga I don't think would just give up a tailed beast without a fight.
As long as there are rules people will protest them, loophole, break, blablabla blabla bla
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so RP for it.
And in the far off land of Amegakure, a lone Kaguya rises from her mausoleum calling out one name...
No, because people and villages will make it impossible to even get past the front gates, and we all know that to be a fact, at this point if you refute that, you are a completely dumb.
There is not a village on this site I can not infiltrate. To think there is is just means you doubt yourself to much. Plus it does make it more of a challenge and more fun
To be honest if we go to all strict IC with no rules ill probably go hunting. We might even see war again at SL. Big war.
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so RP for it.
And in the far off land of Amegakure, a lone Kaguya rises from her mausoleum calling out one name...
No, because people and villages will make it impossible to even get past the front gates, and we all know that to be a fact, at this point if you refute that, you are a completely dumb.
There is not a village on this site I can not infiltrate. To think there is is just means you doubt yourself to much. Plus it does make it more of a challenge and more fun
To be honest if we go to all strict IC with no rules ill probably go hunting. We might even see war again at SL. Big war.
I dare ya. I double dare ya...No no. I triple Dog Dare ya to go and attack a village right now. Go bro, dared ya.
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During Shukaku time anyway, athos. Before I got stripped of Gyuki for equally BS reasons I had to put down a friggin endless list of people.
As for you yujo, rusaku, who even are you anymore? I guess this is how people complaining of people changing names feel like.
Either way, your point is kinda moot because as has been proven many many times over by now, the rules don't work. They're already followed so little if at all, falsely when they are, that they might as well not exist at all.
And for once I kinda agree with kirk too, as impossibly rare as that is. Like seriously, I do not recall a single time in the past where any problem whatsoever ever got to even the scale of the most minor disputes that have happened since the making of the current rules. Not a single one.
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All someone has to do is come to the gates of a village and ask for me >> And if the village complies, I'll go fight them.
I proved this back when we only did IC hunts and I had the Seven Tails on Shinko. People came up to my village, three of them to be exact, and challenged me. Either fight them or bring my village into it.
So, I grabbed two people and we had a six man battle. That was actually really fun and had a lot of twists and turns.
>__> I didn't drag my whole village into a fight with a bunch of hunter's because that is irresponsible. I mean, I was also Kage and not just a ninja, but still xD
@Warren
Pretty sure that you've had Shukaku for years now xD being the only person to have been able to force you into a fight, I like to think it was quite the feat.
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During Shukaku time anyway, athos. Before I got stripped of Gyuki for equally BS reasons I had to put down a friggin endless list of people.
As for you yujo, rusaku, who even are you anymore? I guess this is how people complaining of people changing names feel like.
Either way, your point is kinda moot because as has been proven many many times over by now, the rules don't work. They're already followed so little if at all, falsely when they are, that they might as well not exist at all.
And for once I kinda agree with kirk too, as impossibly rare as that is. Like seriously, I do not recall a single time in the past where any problem whatsoever ever got to even the scale of the most minor disputes that have happened since the making of the current rules. Not a single one.
Oh I agree that the rules suck, and people abuse em, but to make all of the RP needed to nab a bijuu IC would just plain be unfair to everyone but the 9 that have them.
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Implying any sort of fairness has for real existed in a long time now since they were made.
Or do I have to remind you of that certain conversation we had of Kage?
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During Shukaku time anyway, athos. Before I got stripped of Gyuki for equally BS reasons I had to put down a friggin endless list of people.
As for you yujo, rusaku, who even are you anymore? I guess this is how people complaining of people changing names feel like.
Either way, your point is kinda moot because as has been proven many many times over by now, the rules don't work. They're already followed so little if at all, falsely when they are, that they might as well not exist at all.
And for once I kinda agree with kirk too, as impossibly rare as that is. Like seriously, I do not recall a single time in the past where any problem whatsoever ever got to even the scale of the most minor disputes that have happened since the making of the current rules. Not a single one.
Oh I agree that the rules suck, and people abuse em, but to make all of the RP needed to nab a bijuu IC would just plain be unfair to everyone but the 9 that have them.
I hardly see how it is unfair. We are ninja. Our jobs are to sneak and all that madness.
It amuses me at how uncertain you are of being able to pull it off.
So you might have to plan harder, work harder, think harder, fighter harder... That makes it more rewarding. That makes it more fun. That makes you a better rper.
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The issue doesn't seem to be the rules. They don't suck. It's the community that sucks.
The community is what decides the rules in the first place. And it even goes beyond that, in which it is the community that chooses to follow these rules. If someone is breaking a rule or making it impossible to go after a host, then just bring it up and we'll have a talk about whether or not it's true.
I do think that some rules should be amended. But let's have separate topics for each rule that is to be added, changed or removed.
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It seems like the ic hunt part is what causes the most issues. I mean any fight you want to win and/or not lost you're going to argue killing blows and such but the issue seems to be even getting there.
Was it all ooc before? Did that not work? It seems like just having a challenger list like we do and you have to fight anyone who challenges you in an occ fight is pretty much as simple as it gets.
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Screw the rules. They are pointless. People break them.
Make simple rules that can't be broken:
Rule 1- all biju matters are handled IC
Rule 2- there can be one the nine standard tails beast
Rule 3- have fun
And if it please everyone. Lets ban village barriers and defenses.
Villages are allowed to have simple defenses like simple traps, the environment that protects them, NPC, it's Shinobi, and like kunia luanchers. Walls as well.
And we imply the old rule No one can space-time into a village without being ignored.
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It seems like the ic hunt part is what causes the most issues. I mean any fight you want to win and/or not lost you're going to argue killing blows and such but the issue seems to be even getting there.
Was it all ooc before? Did that not work? It seems like just having a challenger list like we do and you have to fight anyone who challenges you in an occ fight is pretty much as simple as it gets.
It was a good enough system, I don't even argue it. It had it's flaws, which is true, but it also erased a lot of the problems we are having as of right now.
@Kirk
Preach brotha! PREACH!!!
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I believe we need more rules. Every action taken by a bijuu hunter or holder must be notarized and co-signed.
But I don't think it's too bad if the rules get abolished. I think it would make things much easier. Even if I meet a whole bunch of people who have bijuu. But I think if we go with that rule of getting rid of the rules, then we have to abide by the honor system. Also, if anyone can have any bijuu, then we should at least have the rule that people can't have more than one.
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I believe it's these all-sensing, all-seeing, selectively-blocking barriers that pretty much have no flaw to them that ruins the IC-hunt portion. Granted, by village has giant guards that can roll you up like a blunt and fire you off into the distance on their giant crossbows. But that's only if you do something really destructive to alert them. And I have a rain-sensing system too, but I don't really abuse it at all. The gate policy is pretty much open for anyone to pass through, so long as they don't blatantly try to draw attention to themselves.
It's when you make people go through tons of hoops is when it can get irritating. If you doubt your abilities to go sneak your way into a village with sensible defenses, then maybe hunting a Tailed Beast isn't for you. It's not a bad thing. It just means that you'll have to learn to work with what you have.
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I believe it's these all-sensing, all-seeing, selectively-blocking barriers that pretty much have no flaw to them that ruins the IC-hunt portion. Granted, by village has giant guards that can roll you up like a blunt and fire you off into the distance on their giant crossbows. But that's only if you do something really destructive to alert them. And I have a rain-sensing system too, but I don't really abuse it at all. The gate policy is pretty much open for anyone to pass through, so long as they don't blatantly try to draw attention to themselves.
It's when you make people go through tons of hoops is when it can get irritating. If you doubt your abilities to go sneak your way into a village with sensible defenses, then maybe hunting a Tailed Beast isn't for you. It's not a bad thing. It just means that you'll have to learn to work with what you have.
It's this part that gives me pause about the whole damn thing. But who's to say, that not every single person is gonna fair and civil, and not meta-game at all! >_> Logic does, and by virtue of the history of peoples actions we have definitive proof that this method will simply be abused as well.
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I believe it's these all-sensing, all-seeing, selectively-blocking barriers that pretty much have no flaw to them that ruins the IC-hunt portion. Granted, by village has giant guards that can roll you up like a blunt and fire you off into the distance on their giant crossbows. But that's only if you do something really destructive to alert them. And I have a rain-sensing system too, but I don't really abuse it at all. The gate policy is pretty much open for anyone to pass through, so long as they don't blatantly try to draw attention to themselves.
It's when you make people go through tons of hoops is when it can get irritating. If you doubt your abilities to go sneak your way into a village with sensible defenses, then maybe hunting a Tailed Beast isn't for you. It's not a bad thing. It just means that you'll have to learn to work with what you have.
Yeah, if all the villages didn't have a defense against everything, that'd be awesome x.x You look at Kumo that has barriers that, like, affect foreign chakra(or did, back when zenaku did it) from space time stuff to Otogakure. Where their only barrier is a space time one and besides that all they have is a really tall wall and lots of Kunai launchers >.>;
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Or keep em, do away with the rules, and go back to our lives with one less headache to deal with.
This is actually a thing people want to do? So that every current host can give everyone else the middle finger, and throw them deuces? Wut.
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Either get rid of the bijuus or follow the rules. There's no in-betweens. >.>
I'd say get rid of them. Blam! One less headache and pain in the ass we don't have to deal with. All this bickering about it is mainly pointless.
Mainly pointless to those who do not care about the bijuu, and the fun they bring to RP when you aren't dealing with the bitching.
If history suggests anything, if the hunts are IC, there will be issues eventually. While I will not outright say the community sucks (because then there is not really any hope here) the rules themselves, when followed and combined with some sense on both sides, did not cause a great hubbub. Trev, Dato, Kamui, myself, and others have had good fights under these rules (granted, I did not have IC hunt as a requirement, an exception among the lots cast for the most part).
Abolishing the rules alone will almost certainly accomplish only so much, where only a few bother with going after tailed beasts and the rest live on with their lives. And if any topics are brought here, it'll be about the village battles that likely result (so and so did this and that, which aint legit, but no bro, you did that and this, which aint legit).
An OOC only challenge system I would support as well as abolishing the rules. However, the vast majority of my support goes to banning the tailed beasts altogether, as others have already said.
From what I have seen personally, the "lots of RP with the biju" thing is the exception rather than the norm for jinchurikii. But that's only from what I've seen, especially as of late.
*totallly for not even caring who has a beast as well
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Let me explain something to you all. It is a very simple understand I have reached over my years here at SL and at forums.
You can not enforce rules and laws of rp at a site that was not made for rp in the first place. SL was not crafted to have any set style of rp. It is a free lance place of madness and it works people. Look at our golden days if you don't believe me.
SL is like the outworld or rp. It is cauos, madness, crazy mess, a place logic behind a post isn't needed so long as the posteris enjoying it. Forums are like the inworld they are crafted on set rules, guidelines, set up, ect from the very start. You have no choice but to follow them. They are the law.
How do forums do this? Simple if you don't follow the rp law you get kicked off the site. Now you tell m is anyone gonna get kicked of SL for not following a rp rule? No. I can rp being a midget turtle power ranger with ten tails and there isn't squat anyone will do as far as punishment goes.
Try try and try as hard as you want but your rules and your community will always fail. I promise you that. Because SL does not support such an idea. It is a place of freedom. You wanna see something awesome happen? Do away with all rp rules...ALL. Do away with your villages and logic behind everything. Make it to where you can to anywhere you want in any fashion you want. People will go back to having fun once again. What is goin on now isn't fun. It's a shit show
Go ahead try to enforce more rules upon rules and you'll kill this site because it want be what it originally was. Prime example Uzumaki Online ( forgive me Neji if I shouldn't mention that name). I do think tat site is dead. Their strict rp killed them.
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Or just let the site die cause you all suck.
Get rid of the tailed best, people will fight over items, village land, IC titles, etc. And cause the same arguments.
You guys claim nobody follows the rules, so strip them. Site has been long headed towards a split of people that follow certain rules while other people follow a different set. Stop trying to get along, and let the community split and anarchy reign and there be no standard rp, community, or continuity.
There will be multiple people that claim to be the sage of six paths, multiple people with the same tailed beast, etc. You all wanted freedom from rules that nobody follows, well here it is. Let's not pretend SL rp is legit and just let it go.
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Yeah, if all the villages didn't have a defense against everything, that'd be awesome x.x You look at Kumo that has barriers that, like, affect foreign chakra(or did, back when zenaku did it) from space time stuff to Otogakure. Where their only barrier is a space time one and besides that all they have is a really tall wall and lots of Kunai launchers >.>;
We actually don't have the wall anymore. Just a fence to make sure the sheep and cattle don't break loose lol
And I think that getting rid of the rules would cause some strife and segregation from this site. But I'm also curious to what will end up happening in the end. I always hear about how 'good' this place was back in the day before there were rules. Perhaps this will cause people to either go back to those ways or maybe some people will just want things to go back to what they are now.
We also have to remember that not all of the RPers on this site come to the forum, so they might not even care what conclusion everyone here comes to. They'll just keep doing what they do and hopefully be happy with it. And that's okay.
And I heard that there was some sort of attempt on separating the 'normal' RPers from the 'serious' RPers years ago with some sort of separate site. I'm guessing that eventually evolved to the RP that goes on the forum today. But I also heard that also caused a great exodus from this place.
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Yeah, if all the villages didn't have a defense against everything, that'd be awesome x.x You look at Kumo that has barriers that, like, affect foreign chakra(or did, back when zenaku did it) from space time stuff to Otogakure. Where their only barrier is a space time one and besides that all they have is a really tall wall and lots of Kunai launchers >.>;
We actually don't have the wall anymore. Just a fence to make sure the sheep and cattle don't break loose lol
And I think that getting rid of the rules would cause some strife and segregation from this site. But I'm also curious to what will end up happening in the end. I always hear about how 'good' this place was back in the day before there were rules. Perhaps this will cause people to either go back to those ways or maybe some people will just want things to go back to what they are now.
We also have to remember that not all of the RPers on this site come to the forum, so they might not even care what conclusion everyone here comes to. They'll just keep doing what they do and hopefully be happy with it. And that's okay.
And I heard that there was some sort of attempt on separating the 'normal' RPers from the 'serious' RPers years ago with some sort of separate site. I'm guessing that eventually evolved to the RP that goes on the forum today. But I also heard that also caused a great exodus from this place.
I was waiting for a SLS reference to pop up. Lol.
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Or just let the site die cause you all suck.
Get rid of the tailed best, people will fight over items, village land, IC titles, etc. And cause the same arguments...
Yeah no, none of those items have had the explosive potency of the tailed beasts, because none of those are required to be accessible to everyone on SL. The tailed beasts have been however, and it's because of that necessity that so much work had been put into trying to make rules and regulations for them so that differing RP groups might can come together and compete for them.
That social experiment, naturally, fell flat on its face when faced with the reality that there are always going to be lawbreakers, and without adequate punishment they are going to carry on doing what they are doing.
But, this is a game, a naruto rpg at that. We can strip all day, but considering what has to be done to get a strip executed and acknowledged (and the beast relocated), it might as well be the American justice system minus the exorbitant literal fees. School has started back up, and this has been going on for years, cannibalizing itself as exceptions and bad choices compound with belligerent attitudes and uncompromisable positions. Is it worth the dang trouble to make this work?
I am finally of the opinion that no, it really isn't. The beasts aren't worth it (replace it with a custom beast of the same name and disposition if you want a voice inside your head) and neither is the biju RP, at least not to me.
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I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.
If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:
1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.
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Keep the biju, drop the rules save for activity and allowing people to find you.
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Keep the biju, drop the rules save for activity and allowing people to find you.
I'd agree with that guy ^
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Keep the biju, drop the rules save for activity and allowing people to find you.
I'd agree with that guy ^
Triple this ^
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Seal them all away. :P
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Seal them all away. :P
This is the best idea so far! Too bad it'll never happen.
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I'm gonna edit my rules then. See how this plays out.
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I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.
If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:
1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.
So I'm late to this topic and wont lie I didn't read most of this topic. I read the first few posts and then a few on the last page, but I came across Dart's post and I actually agree with it. That all seems pretty fair. I don't want to ban the Biju, and the way I see it is simple rule breaks should equal stripping or at least some type of more efficient warning system? The 3 denials system doesn't seem to work very well, I don't know.
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I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.
If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:
1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.
I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.
1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.
Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.
The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.
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Pff lol, people can still do ooc if they so choose so Dart's thing is just fine. But ignoring the IC/OOC thing of 3 those aren't even technically rules, they should be obvious common sense >_>
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I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.
If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:
1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.
I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.
1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.
Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.
The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.
Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.
Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.
4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.
Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.
But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.
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I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.
If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:
1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.
I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.
1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.
Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.
The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.
Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.
Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.
4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.
Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.
But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.
I agree with most of what you say, except for the last bit where you said, "It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with."
This tid bit right here would open up 10 thousand doors of BS just waiting to be explored. The Hosts should only have at most 50% power when dealing with how the bijuu should be dealt with. These bijuu are privileges that come with obligations, and when either is taken advantage of, consequences and rules that govern how situations like those will be dealt with are necessary, or we'll have hosts pulling all sorts of nonsense out of their asses.
This mindset spawned from that, "Preferences" list being misconstrued and twisted into, "This is my bijuu, and the rules that govern it, list", a fine example of giving someone an inch, and them taking a mile and 3/4's. >_>
Now I won't explain what the word Preferences means, but I will say that it should only be that. And in the case that the Host/Hunter cannot agree on a solution, then a set of rules should be written to govern that contingency.
It's really a simple solution when you wipe away the bullshit, and consider that fairness for both the Hunter, and Hunted.
Tl;Dr: Make fair challenges/hunts for host/hunted.
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Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.
Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.
4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.
Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.
But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.
Don't give me that "wow Eric, you really need an explanation" bit right there. Out of all of my biju fights, things went fine under the old rules. Even when there were IC hunts, I personally had been fairly fine and helped as much a reasonably possible to smooth things over according to what information I had.
Even when I had to go through some less than welcome (at least on my end) RP that did not involve a tailed beast, I still ultimately went with it and even now help continue to make that entire affair not a waste of everyone's time and energies.
You can go through the threads youreslf, there are definitely people who need a computer's algorithm for this stuff; non-ambigious. As far as I have been concerned, I have only been a dick regarding RP once since I returned to RPing, but there are likely to be those who disagree. Ambiguity is a law's greatest friend and foe, because it allows for multiple interpretations. In the real world, there are people who settle on what interpretation is the "right" interpretation for the time period.
Here, we have no such people. "I"m not being a dick" "Yes you are" is not such a strange phenomenon around here. A judge to settle matters is absolutely necessary when the participants do not see things the same way or do not get along at all.
That "malfunction" that you speak of regarding IC hunts was not a malfunction. It was in the rules itself that such a thing (while RPwise illogical to just up and ask for it at the gates) was ultimately what was supposed to happen according to the rules of biju fighting. I am not going to go back through that thread and quote every instance where I try to hammer this home to people, but to put it shortly, those who went up to the gates and said "gimme your biju fight" were, while within the grounds of the rules to demand such, stoking the tempers of hosts who clearly did not see the IC hunt portion the same way.
The rules were the rules though, change 'em, abolish 'em, or get out of their jurisdiction, but to outright ignore them because they "don't make sense" to you (I'll come out, fight you, right here in front of the village gates, prove my worth as jinch, and the moment we're done, I'll show your body to all my cheering peeps and homedogs at the ramparts. Come on, is something even remotely close to that that really that out of character for some of these hosts?) is not fair to everyone who does abide by the rules, nor is it a legal option.
If you cannot handle such a simple task as following the biju rules as they are written, or starting a motion to adjust them, then why at any time be under the rules by having a tailed beast? If hosts were stripped for their bs IC hunt requirements, then as was put it earlier by someone else, the question of whether we should even bother with the accursed things (the rules, the beasts, etc.) would not be so pressing.
The question really is for me at this point (since "follow the damn rules as written" has certainly been an argument defeated not by its point but by the refusal to do so), what are the tailed beasts of SL? Are they a public commodity that has to (not could, not should, but has to) be shared with the community as far as opportunity goes? Or are they just like claimed items (to put it shortly) in that you do not have to be given a fair opportunity to take them, and recognizing them is completely optional?
If it is the former, then I stand by all of my arguments so far regarding the rules management, the clear sleight by truants who do not want to play by the terms and agreements they signed, and all that stuff. If the tailed beasts are like claimed items, with the option to personally void and refuse to acknowledge them (just like claimed items), then I throw up my hands and say do what you wish with the tailed beast as long as you leave it at home if you decide to engage anyone who does not acknowledge them in RP.
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Well Eric, I got about half-way through that and was pretty tired of hearing you toot your own horn. But give me an A for effort for getting that far. NO prior rules are broken when a host insists that legit RP occurs to hunt them down and then fight, however that fight is provoked, as a melee free for all of those dragged into the RP or a 1v1. I don't need you to tell me what words mean, and it is insulting for you to twist them into something they simply were never intended to be. 10,000 word posts to a thread are not going to change that.
People who wan to RP their bijuu should get to do it. And not have to put up with a bunch for stupidity, as Dart said.
People who want to cut through all the creativity and thinking involved with RP and just do OOC matches, should get to do that.
However, once you have earned the right to have a bijuu, you should get the chance to play it out the way you like. That is not something that is unfair, Yujo, it is something that has been earned.
Those who earn a bijuu are supposedly the cream of the crop that SL has to offer. I for one do not want to be robbed out of the chance to see them use the beast and show off what they can do. Either through an OOC match or through an actual RP.
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Well Eric, I got about half-way through that and was pretty tired of hearing you toot your own horn...
Then let me cut to the chase and sum it all up in fewer words.
The rules promise that the challenger will get their fight with the host. Most preferences insist that the fight is 1v1, hence, they cannot bring any allies of their own and neither can the host. Therefore, that "fight" mentioned will be 1v1, not a free for all. Challenges are pointless if the entire village gets to gangbang a single individual, regular IC fight hunts where both sides can bring as many as they want to the party would be more efficient (and less wordy) IF it were intended for such fights to be considered for the IC hunt.
But they aren't.
If biju are supposed to be available for everyone to fairly attain them, then 1 versus an entire village (in the case of 1v1 fight demands with an IC hunt where the host can have a legion having their backs) or an IC hunt that is so arduous that a host might as well not waste their time is bullshit. If the biju are not supposed to be available for everyone to fairly attain them, then that is a perfectly reasonable demand for hosts, since they might as well be claimed "items" at that stage.
If that is still too long for you to get through, let me really cut it down to size:
If tailed beasts are supposed to be available for the general public, then the fights and hunts must be fair, and rules must be followed to ensure that. Otherwise, then the fights and hunts can be as hard as the host so desires, but at the same time, the beasts might as well be "claimed items" and thus voidable on an individual basis if the host is deemed to have too much crazy to be reckoned with.
You really wanna see what the hosts can do with their tailed beasts? Tell them to stop hiding between overdone IC hunts with 1v1 fight stipulations so that you can actually see them fight to defend their bijuu. Otherwise, give it up, some beasts will never be fought for ever again (outside of an activity strip) from this point with the way things are going.
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You really want to see what hosts can do with their beasts? Stop trying to shove it down everyone's throats that fights are all they're good for, and you might actually see something creative start happening. At this point its only you beating a dead horse anymore.
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You really want to see what hosts can do with their beasts? Stop trying to shove it down everyone's throats that fights are all they're good for, and you might actually see something creative start happening. At this point its only you beating a dead horse anymore.
The current rules largely govern biju fights, not what hosts do with their beasts in their spare time (other than be active in some way, preferably public). The topic is on whether the rules should be greatly amended or abolished altogether.
Therefore, what else besides the fighting aspect of tailed beasts are you expecting me to beat to death? If the beasts are not meant to change hands very often, especially not into the hands of an average interested player, then the rules should be abolished in order to keep it that way, and should be treated more like claimed items than how they are treated now.
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You don't need a rule to get that. Poor rper's won't beat the host.
plain and simple.
And apparently what the host does in his spare time isn't good enough to count for activity, hence the hoo ha that precipitated this glorious 'Why isn't Warren active but instead insisting on RP' festival.
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Shh, don't tell them. Means more fun for us.
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You don't need a rule to get that. Poor rper's won't beat the host.
plain and simple.
And apparently what the host does in his spare time isn't good enough to count for activity, hence the hoo ha that precipitated this glorious 'Why isn't Warren active but instead insisting on RP' festival.
I don't recall arguing that Warren isn't active. I don't recall ever calling a festival for such. Athos did accuse Warren of being inactive and apologized, we (or some of us at least) have long moved on from that.
Warren's conditions for an IC hunt, however, have come into question by me several times now. If that is what you meant, then say what you mean instead of trying to make me figure out what you are intending to communicate with words.
In any case, then I will have to assume the latter case (everyone gets a chance vs only certain people like claimed items and the Mist ninja swords), because who is a "poor RPer" is pretty subjective from where I am sitting, especially since the presumed opposites, " rich/great RPers", suggest that only the elite or above average really should be having even a fair shot at the tailed beasts in general.
In which case, the rules ought to be abolished and things simply return to a "anything goes" state regarding tailed beast fights, that they are thrown into the "just like other RP items" pile.
Was that really so hard to just come out and say you guys? Unless of course I misunderstand your messages to me, in which case I will have to ask for clarification before I go rogue and ignore the tailed beasts' existence in all but required interactions.
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talks real-ly slow
The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.
So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.
now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.
You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.
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talks real-ly slow
The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.
So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.
now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.
You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.
Does the poor roleplayer lose the match because they are worse at RP, or because the odds were stacked from the beginning?
If poor roleplayers are determined by the hosts, then the hosts practically choose their successor, and "allow" whoever they want to actually have the biju (since they determine what is poor and not poor roleplay).
Now pay attention, is your priority JUST for the host to have fun in make-believe stories? Because no hunter is going to have fun if they have to completely bend over backwards to please the host before they can even get a shot at the beast.
Now, not much faster now or you might lose me, have I got it about right? And if not, maybe a different approach will get the point across better.
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So here's the point that you're currently contesting:
A challenger finally discovers the identity and location of a Jinchūriki. Said challenger then goes to location. Finds out that a village is in the way. One of two options presents itself: (logically and ICcly) Is the challenger strong enough to wipe out further completion and then fight the jinch? If not, then (s)he seeks entrance into the village like a *gasp!* ninja and seek out the Jinchūriki.
From there, and only there, would a fight 1v1 be *forced* despite the parameters of being in the village. At that point, I would say the Jinchūriki would recognize that the threat the challenger poses to his/her beloved village and takes the fight elsewhere. (S)He also demands the village to NOT interfere in the fight until a victor has emerged, one way or the other. If it is the Jinchūriki, then yes, parade around with the corpse and revel in your victory. If it's the challenger, well, you better learn how to get the hell of dodge if you're still trapped in the village.
That is how the situation pans out. Just like how it does for Itachi and Kisame canonically. They couldn't overpower the Leaf Jōnin and got the hell out while they still could. *Gasp!* Then they came back for another shot that was opportunistic to them!
Seriously...
I'm not trying to be an asshole; definitely very sarcastic, but none of that is impossible to comprehend.
That's the ideology that I'm proposing. Simple as that.
You cannot fight a village for a Jinchūriki, then don't incite the village to attack. By all means, you think you're all powerful and want to take on the entire village AND fight for the beastie afterwards, then go for it.
If not, then you infiltrate the location. Make friendlies if you can. Pinpoint, corner, threaten the Jinchūriki. That's when it's on the jinch to accept the match without involving anyone else as per their preferences.
Done and done.
OOC fights are even simpler. Just duke it out and continue on your merry way.
By the way, Riku, I meant that it is entirely up to the host whether the situation be IC or OOC.
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So here's the point that you're currently contesting:
A challenger finally discovers the identity and location of a Jinchūriki. Said challenger then goes to location. Finds out that a village is in the way. One of two options presents itself: (logically and ICcly) Is the challenger strong enough to wipe out further completion and then fight the jinch? If not, then (s)he seeks entrance into the village like a *gasp!* ninja and seek out the Jinchūriki.
From there, and only there, would a fight 1v1 be *forced* despite the parameters of being in the village. At that point, I would say the Jinchūriki would recognize that the threat the challenger poses to his/her beloved village and takes the fight elsewhere. (S)He also demands the village to NOT interfere in the fight until a victor has emerged, one way or the other. If it is the Jinchūriki, then yes, parade around with the corpse and revel in your victory. If it's the challenger, well, you better learn how to get the hell of dodge if you're still trapped in the village.
That is how the situation pans out. Just like how it does for Itachi and Kisame canonically. They couldn't overpower the Leaf Jōnin and got the hell out while they still could. *Gasp!* Then they came back for another shot that was opportunistic to them!
Seriously...
I'm not trying to be an asshole; definitely very sarcastic, but none of that is impossible to comprehend.
That's the ideology that I'm proposing. Simple as that.
You cannot fight a village for a Jinchūriki, then don't incite the village to attack. By all means, you think you're all powerful and want to take on the entire village AND fight for the beastie afterwards, then go for it.
If not, then you infiltrate the location. Make friendlies if you can. Pinpoint, corner, threaten the Jinchūriki. That's when it's on the jinch to accept the match without involving anyone else as per their preferences.
Done and done.
OOC fights are even simpler. Just duke it out and continue on your merry way.
By the way, Riku, I meant that it is entirely up to the host whether the situation be IC or OOC.
I personally like the points you are making but it comes down to something sounding good on paper, but in practice is going to cause more controversy than the second amendment of the constitution.
If those kinds of IC hunts aren't regulated, then who is to say a village isn't going to have a bias against someone who has the intention to search out one of their bijuu, even if IC they have no knowledge of it. I mean, I completely understand that a village will defend their villagers no matter what, but to accomplish that, I wouldn't doubt they aren't prepared to meta-game without any remorse.
Other than that, I have little issue with what you are dishing out.
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Treat others as you wish them to treat you; if the hunters a meta-gaming prick themselves too, its just karma if they get treated similarly harshly. If they're the actually nice, behaving sort, then they might actually get in through the door instead.
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Treat others as you wish them to treat you; if the hunters a meta-gaming prick themselves too, its just karma if they get treated similarly harshly. If they're the actually nice, behaving sort, then they might actually get in through the door instead.
That again is assuming that the host and their village will honor that. I refuse to believe people are capable of doing anything honorable, which is why we have rules.
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So here's the point that you're currently contesting:
A challenger finally discovers the identity and location of a Jinchūriki. Said challenger then goes to location. Finds out that a village is in the way. One of two options presents itself: (logically and ICcly) Is the challenger strong enough to wipe out further completion and then fight the jinch? If not, then (s)he seeks entrance into the village like a *gasp!* ninja and seek out the Jinchūriki.
From there, and only there, would a fight 1v1 be *forced* despite the parameters of being in the village. At that point, I would say the Jinchūriki would recognize that the threat the challenger poses to his/her beloved village and takes the fight elsewhere. (S)He also demands the village to NOT interfere in the fight until a victor has emerged, one way or the other. If it is the Jinchūriki, then yes, parade around with the corpse and revel in your victory. If it's the challenger, well, you better learn how to get the hell of dodge if you're still trapped in the village.
That is how the situation pans out. Just like how it does for Itachi and Kisame canonically. They couldn't overpower the Leaf Jōnin and got the hell out while they still could. *Gasp!* Then they came back for another shot that was opportunistic to them...
Technically Jiraiya (legendary sannin, no mere jounin) sent the two scurrying, but other than that yeah, I guess it is not too much to ask that the challengers at least try to be sneaky about it.
Be that as it may, this:
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge. This means that if an IC Challenge is chosen, the challenger has to RP learning the host’s identity and location and maneuvers him into a Match. This does not mean that the RP is used as a means for the Host to forever avoid having to face his challenger. The host must make it possible for the challenger to complete the terms of the RP event. This is not the battle part. You are going to face off with each other. You are just being creative about it.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place.
Can probably be changed to something more along these lines:
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge.
The host is required to accept the challenge, presuming the judge has found neither party having run afoul. Whether the battle takes place in the area or not is determined by the challenger's and host's RP initially.
If the host offers to take the battle outside of a village and/or area populated with other human players and the challenger refuses (or does not give the host the opportunity by surprise attacking them) then the host may call upon any other players on the RP board to come to their aide if necessary. In all other cases, only the previously agreed upon number of participants (whether it 1v1 or 4v4) may participate in the ensuing battle. The agreed upon judge and the rules of biju matches have final say on all matters of disagreement between challenger and challenged.
If there are no restrictions on the number of participants, then the challenger must, as before, have knowledge of who the host of the beast is and enter the village and/or area that the host is in. However, they are not required to directly challenge the host in person, and may be subject to a village battle (if that is the setting) or other such actions from the host's village if they decide to engage recklessly. Since there are no restrictions on the number of participants, then both challenger and host can call in as much assistance as required once the fighting begins. What consists of "the fight" and "the hunt" is up to the judge if there is a discrepancy, but in general, "the hunt" is finding and challenging the host while "the fight" is the battle between challenger and host to determine the fate of the tailed beast.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place. There is ABSOLUTELY NO RP involved with an OOC challenge.
Additionally, taking a look at this:
1] ºHow to Challenge a Jinchurikiº
In order to challenge a Jinchuriki & obtain a Biju, one must extend an invitation to its host; this places you on the list of challengers that each host must update in a publicly accessibly spot. [Either as a post in this thread or on the wikia as a discussion topic on the tailed beasts page. Here] The two will make all arrangements for when the match will begin and where. Should the Jinchuriki ignore or refuse the invitation(s)-with no reason given- 3 times consecutively, you may report it to other Jinchuriki. Subject for such an event's invitation, for proof & reference of a challenge, must be titled: (Number of tails) - (Name of Jinchuriki); the body of the message may be as you please (though manners & politeness would of course make things much smoother).
We should clarify (in accordance with the new proposal):
1] ºHow to Challenge a Jinchurikiº
If the fight is OOC (Out of Character), then a challenger must extend a formal invitiation (PM's, posts, whatever, make sure there is a record of it). The host then adds the challenger to the list, and the two begin working on details for the match.
If the fight is IC (In Character) then the challenger and/or party must make an attempt to enter into the host village, learn the host's identity, and issue the challenge directly to the jinchurikii in person. This is to be done with the intent to fight/provoke only the host (and agreed upon support if necessary. The jinchurikii must be directly approached and challenged in person, face-to-face. All actions pertaining to the challenge, except for the selection of a judge, must be done in character.
No demanding to fight the jinch outside of the jinch's presence or otherwise giving the village a reason to attack the challenging party in a challenge with participant restrictions.
Violations either by host (metagaming or otherwise encouraging the challenger's party attacked without seeming provocation, intentionally hiding to prevent the challenger from directly encountering them for an extended period of time (week IC time), etc.) or challenger (belligerently demanding to see the jinchurikii for the sake of fighting them or provoking the townspeople otherwise) will result in the appointed judge making a call on whether either or both have run afoul of the conditions of the match.
If the judge finds the jinchurikii guilty, a strip order may be placed,or the offending action rectified. if the judge finds the challenger guilty, revocation of challenger privileges (no immunity from being attacked in a match with limited participants for example) or the offending action voided and the attempt restarted. These are at the judge's discretion as to reduce bickering.
Other adjustments too can be made, but the main one I think iss making the judge decider not just in the fight itself, but in the hunts as well, in order to nip arguments more swiftly in the bud.
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@Riku
Wasn't trying to deny the possibility. My point was that before would-be-challengers always automatically go antagonizing the hosts and their allies/village, they should sometimes consider that perhaps its actually their own behavior that's to blame for the problems, not the others'.
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talks real-ly slow
The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.
So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.
now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.
You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.
Does the poor roleplayer lose the match because they are worse at RP, or because the odds were stacked from the beginning?
If poor roleplayers are determined by the hosts, then the hosts practically choose their successor, and "allow" whoever they want to actually have the biju (since they determine what is poor and not poor roleplay).
Now pay attention, is your priority JUST for the host to have fun in make-believe stories? Because no hunter is going to have fun if they have to completely bend over backwards to please the host before they can even get a shot at the beast.
Now, not much faster now or you might lose me, have I got it about right? And if not, maybe a different approach will get the point across better.
You are the one who needs to pay attention.
It's not about the host denying anyone anything. You find them in rp, you meet in battle, the better RPer wins. plain and simple. You are trying to say that something is amiss with that. The host doesn't determine who the better RPer is, only giving certain people chances to do the rp. Those are misinterpretations you are doggegly sticking to in order to hear yourself talk some more.
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talks real-ly slow
The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.
So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.
now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.
You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.
Does the poor roleplayer lose the match because they are worse at RP, or because the odds were stacked from the beginning?
If poor roleplayers are determined by the hosts, then the hosts practically choose their successor, and "allow" whoever they want to actually have the biju (since they determine what is poor and not poor roleplay).
Now pay attention, is your priority JUST for the host to have fun in make-believe stories? Because no hunter is going to have fun if they have to completely bend over backwards to please the host before they can even get a shot at the beast.
Now, not much faster now or you might lose me, have I got it about right? And if not, maybe a different approach will get the point across better.
You are the one who needs to pay attention.
It's not about the host denying anyone anything. You find them in rp, you meet in battle, the better RPer wins. plain and simple. You are trying to say that something is amiss with that. The host doesn't determine who the better RPer is, only giving certain people chances to do the rp. Those are misinterpretations you are doggegly sticking to in order to hear yourself talk some more.
That's funny, I coulda sworn this whole hullaboo started with the challenger not getting to the fight portion period.
...NO prior rules are broken when a host insists that legit RP occurs to hunt them down and then fight...
...The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter...
...People who wan to RP their bijuu should get to do it. And not have to put up with a bunch for stupidity, as Dart said...
"better RPer" is subjective from the very beginning, because the host determines what is "legit" RP and not. You've been here, you've seen enough of the madness these past few weeks (months even) to know that I am not making this up just to hear myself type/talk (I take that as an insult btw).
Cut the crap, are you going to seriously try to convince me that some hosts have not abused their power to make the IC hunt as unreasonably difficult as possible just so that they can avoid dealing with what they see as the bottom denominator? That is akin to me trying to convince me that some challengers haven't made things difficult for themselves (which is false, there have been some wretched challenger situations as well as hosts).
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I see you making thing more complicated than they need be. I don't like your IC rules at all.
If this and this and this ....its complicating things to death. No deals and trying to map out every possible situation in the world. That will never end.
You enter an RP and go where it leads you. Plain and simple.
The host does nto determine what legit RP is. that has been established on SL by the community for ages.
The problem comes when those five base rules are violated.
DO I really have to list them again?
1] No god modding
2] No metagaming
3] No auto hitting
4] No character control
5] No retro-posting.
How is insisting on these basic parameters giving the advantage to the host? How is the host picking and choosing who to fight and who not to fight when they are bound by these same rules as anyone else is?
Are you seriously going to tell me that you don't know what RP is?
The only time a judge should be required is when those 5 basic rules are abused.
Its BS to say...oh now...I decided only 3 people can RP this with me, when 12 people saw it happen. You pull out a bijuu in front of me and I am gonna add that event to my rp. If a host is hanging in the area of the village and chakra starts raging, most of the village warriors are going to RP investigating that.
So...we have to break our characters to fit your need to write more rules?
brilliant. I'd rather keep the old ones.
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Fuck that, they're just as bad. Better just go each to their own or none at all.
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...
1] No god modding
2] No metagaming
3] No auto hitting
4] No character control
5] No retro-posting.
...
A thought something was god-modding, B disagrees. Fuss ensues (we have personally been there). Without a judge (or a compromise like we came to) how do you expect something like that to be settled?
And so on and so forth with the exception of auto-hitting. I've noticed people do not tend to disagree over what auto-hitting is in biju battles.
I made the additions "complicated" because I tried to wittle down on ambiguity. I did not really add much of anything new if you read: with the exception of a few points, most of that hosts have been doing in practice since day 100. It reads to me more like an extension of the current rules.
Leave too much to ambiguity and everybody argues this definition or that is the right one. Make everything concrete and it looks like alot more than it really is. If nothing else at least have an appointed judge preside over both the fight and the RP hunt, able to settle the matter before it gets volcanic (if it does).
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So here's the point that you're currently contesting:
A challenger finally discovers the identity and location of a Jinchūriki. Said challenger then goes to location. Finds out that a village is in the way. One of two options presents itself: (logically and ICcly) Is the challenger strong enough to wipe out further completion and then fight the jinch? If not, then (s)he seeks entrance into the village like a *gasp!* ninja and seek out the Jinchūriki.
From there, and only there, would a fight 1v1 be *forced* despite the parameters of being in the village. At that point, I would say the Jinchūriki would recognize that the threat the challenger poses to his/her beloved village and takes the fight elsewhere. (S)He also demands the village to NOT interfere in the fight until a victor has emerged, one way or the other. If it is the Jinchūriki, then yes, parade around with the corpse and revel in your victory. If it's the challenger, well, you better learn how to get the hell of dodge if you're still trapped in the village.
That is how the situation pans out. Just like how it does for Itachi and Kisame canonically. They couldn't overpower the Leaf Jōnin and got the hell out while they still could. *Gasp!* Then they came back for another shot that was opportunistic to them...
Technically Jiraiya (legendary sannin, no mere jounin) sent the two scurrying, but other than that yeah, I guess it is not too much to ask that the challengers at least try to be sneaky about it.
Be that as it may, this:
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge. This means that if an IC Challenge is chosen, the challenger has to RP learning the host’s identity and location and maneuvers him into a Match. This does not mean that the RP is used as a means for the Host to forever avoid having to face his challenger. The host must make it possible for the challenger to complete the terms of the RP event. This is not the battle part. You are going to face off with each other. You are just being creative about it.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place.
Can probably be changed to something more along these lines:
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge.
The host is required to accept the challenge, presuming the judge has found neither party having run afoul. Whether the battle takes place in the area or not is determined by the challenger's and host's RP initially.
If the host offers to take the battle outside of a village and/or area populated with other human players and the challenger refuses (or does not give the host the opportunity by surprise attacking them) then the host may call upon any other players on the RP board to come to their aide if necessary. In all other cases, only the previously agreed upon number of participants (whether it 1v1 or 4v4) may participate in the ensuing battle. The agreed upon judge and the rules of biju matches have final say on all matters of disagreement between challenger and challenged.
If there are no restrictions on the number of participants, then the challenger must, as before, have knowledge of who the host of the beast is and enter the village and/or area that the host is in. However, they are not required to directly challenge the host in person, and may be subject to a village battle (if that is the setting) or other such actions from the host's village if they decide to engage recklessly. Since there are no restrictions on the number of participants, then both challenger and host can call in as much assistance as required once the fighting begins. What consists of "the fight" and "the hunt" is up to the judge if there is a discrepancy, but in general, "the hunt" is finding and challenging the host while "the fight" is the battle between challenger and host to determine the fate of the tailed beast.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place. There is ABSOLUTELY NO RP involved with an OOC challenge.
Additionally, taking a look at this:
1] ºHow to Challenge a Jinchurikiº
In order to challenge a Jinchuriki & obtain a Biju, one must extend an invitation to its host; this places you on the list of challengers that each host must update in a publicly accessibly spot. [Either as a post in this thread or on the wikia as a discussion topic on the tailed beasts page. Here] The two will make all arrangements for when the match will begin and where. Should the Jinchuriki ignore or refuse the invitation(s)-with no reason given- 3 times consecutively, you may report it to other Jinchuriki. Subject for such an event's invitation, for proof & reference of a challenge, must be titled: (Number of tails) - (Name of Jinchuriki); the body of the message may be as you please (though manners & politeness would of course make things much smoother).
We should clarify (in accordance with the new proposal):
1] ºHow to Challenge a Jinchurikiº
If the fight is OOC (Out of Character), then a challenger must extend a formal invitiation (PM's, posts, whatever, make sure there is a record of it). The host then adds the challenger to the list, and the two begin working on details for the match.
If the fight is IC (In Character) then the challenger and/or party must make an attempt to enter into the host village, learn the host's identity, and issue the challenge directly to the jinchurikii in person. This is to be done with the intent to fight/provoke only the host (and agreed upon support if necessary. The jinchurikii must be directly approached and challenged in person, face-to-face. All actions pertaining to the challenge, except for the selection of a judge, must be done in character.
No demanding to fight the jinch outside of the jinch's presence or otherwise giving the village a reason to attack the challenging party in a challenge with participant restrictions.
Violations either by host (metagaming or otherwise encouraging the challenger's party attacked without seeming provocation, intentionally hiding to prevent the challenger from directly encountering them for an extended period of time (week IC time), etc.) or challenger (belligerently demanding to see the jinchurikii for the sake of fighting them or provoking the townspeople otherwise) will result in the appointed judge making a call on whether either or both have run afoul of the conditions of the match.
If the judge finds the jinchurikii guilty, a strip order may be placed,or the offending action rectified. if the judge finds the challenger guilty, revocation of challenger privileges (no immunity from being attacked in a match with limited participants for example) or the offending action voided and the attempt restarted. These are at the judge's discretion as to reduce bickering.
Other adjustments too can be made, but the main one I think iss making the judge decider not just in the fight itself, but in the hunts as well, in order to nip arguments more swiftly in the bud.
I like where this is going, actually.
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...
1] No god modding
2] No metagaming
3] No auto hitting
4] No character control
5] No retro-posting.
...
A thought something was god-modding, B disagrees. Fuss ensues (we have personally been there). Without a judge (or a compromise like we came to) how do you expect something like that to be settled?
Perhaps you should have copy pasted my whole post so you might have seen the part where I specifically mention that when these five rules are violates is the only time a judge should be brought in. What other reason might a person be getting volcanic over, exploiting their weaknesses? Denying they have any ability at all?
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Guys, let's stay on topic here. If we're suggesting to add, edit or remove additional rules, then it's suggested that topics for each add, edit or removal be made. Unless they happen to be really-closely related to each other.
Sudden rule changes in the middle of a different topic will hardly get noticed or supported at all. If you want it to be seen and directly talked about by more people, then don't be afraid to make a topic.
As for my additional two cents, I feel that we should keep the rules, but update them for current times and specifications. Leaving them too ambiguous can make leverage for anybody to do something that is easily abuse-able. For example, the "No changing of Tailed Beasts from canon forms" can be loop-holed to allow Kurama to be split in two, since it technically is entirely possible and is a canon form of him. If anything, it proves that Tailed Beasts can be split into Yin and Yang halves.
I don't support the above loop-hole, but it is one example of many that I can think of which needs to be updated.
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Oh they've been plenty noticed, largely abolished already, and people have been happy too.
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I'm not reading all this stupid back and forth stuff. Can we just get a ruling going off of what people said. Stick to the rules, change the rules, update, IC?, OOC?, void, ect. Which one was favored most. We need to have a striaght up vote on that then you all can start discussing what rules to imply or not to imply afterwards if even needed.
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I think a vote would be wise and an accurate reading of what people want to do regarding this issue.
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A vote would be good. A poll topic should be made, and each vote would have to follow with a post on their reasoning as to why they cast their vote for what reason.
But how many/what should be the options for the poll?
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I think it was
#1 Blow up the bijuu rules and enter total anarchy
#2 Everything is IC, some rules
#3 Everything is OOC some rules
#4 Make some wide sweeping changes to make the rules better
#5 Void the bijuu entirely and replace them with pretty pogo sticks with streamers on the handles.
If that wasn't it then it should be.
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1 for get rid of all rules except inactivity strip, 2 for IC/OOC free choice but minimal rules, and 3 for void beasts entirely.
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IC/OOC should be an option. not just all IC or all OOC.
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1) Amend the rules (broad, can be further discussed, but Dato and myself for example have brought up some potential alterations)
2) Abolish the rules (why bother with an inactivity strip again?)
3) Abolish the entire system and the beasts.
Pretty sure those were the three main options.
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But just in case that wasn't enough i vote for option 3
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Pretty sure I just suggested the option to let the matches be IC or OOC, not just one or the other.
Pretty sure other people made options as well,like warren saying to keep the inactivity clause, that you just summarily dismiss by stating what 3 you determined to be options.
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Pretty sure I just suggested the option to let the matches be IC or OOC, not just one or the other.
Pretty sure other people made options as well,like warren saying to keep the inactivity clause, that you just summarily dismiss by stating what 3 you determined to be options.
Pretty sure those fall under "amend the rules". And I used Dato and myself as examples, not as the onlys.
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1) Amend the rules (broad, can be further discussed, but Dato and myself for example have brought up some potential alterations)
2) Abolish the rules (why bother with an inactivity strip again?)
3) Abolish the entire system and the beasts.
Pretty sure those were the three main options.
1 for me. But until each and every current Jinck has voted, I would not say any ruling or amendment or abolishing of anything can be established, written or destroyed.
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I would think that such a thing would take a bigger consensus from the community than going by just what the majority among 9 people say.
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I would think that such a thing would take a bigger consensus from the community than going by just what the majority among 9 people say.
That as well ^
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I think it was just meant to say it is important to make sure all 9 know. That way no ones going to come in with "No one told me about blah blah blah so I don't have to blah blah blah." after rules have already been changed. I think we determined that all the hosts but Gitsune have a forum account though, right?
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I think it was just meant to say it is important to make sure all 9 know. That way no ones going to come in with "No one told me about blah blah blah so I don't have to blah blah blah." after rules have already been changed. I think we determined that all the hosts but Gitsune have a forum account though, right?
Correct.