Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Eric on February 21, 2017, 02:46:07 PM
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A long time ago, fuinjutsu was introduced into the naruto universe, and a little time after that introduction, it was stated that even seals unbalance odd seals and vice versa if layered on top of each other. As the series went on, however, this "system" seemed to just be thrown entirely out the window, leading to the question of whether this is still even relevent or not.
In SL, fuinjutsu users regularly encounter challenges when it comes to application, restraint, and even absorption of their fuinjutsu. However, surely the fuinjutsu circles have had to deal with fuinjutsu vs fuinjutsu before at some point or another.
So how does fuinjutsu vs fuinjutsu work at this stage in the series and SL realm, where countering counters is literally half the battle?
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If you get hit with a Fuinjutsu you lose so don't. That's the only counterplay as far as bijuu fights go.
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Being someone who prefers a balance, I always treat fuinjutsu usage delicately. No matter the situation. It is very easy to abuse and underutilize so gaining that goldilocks tempo is a necessary tactic when applying them. But at the same time, they can't be related to any other form of battle since in my own theory they are a 'trap card' if you will. And in this day and age of 'zone fights' if they're even that anymore, only proper setup and execution can really ensure a seal to work. But even that isn't too hard with most people trying to get all science-y and technical.
And yes, there have been times where someone tried to seal someone trying to seal them. It's very situational but usually like Athos mentioned, once you get caught its quite literally 'over' depending on what was applied. Meaning the whole point in 'countering' is not getting caught. Otherwise there are indeed some countermeasures in unsealing one's self maybe through another party involved or through one own's attempt. But its not like every technique has some simple unseal, which is quite hardly the case. Specific techniques have a seal, unseal type of relationships but there are more complex codes and sealing formula that would require extensive measures to reverse the effects.
In the case that two 'experts' utilize the same sealing tech or a variant of the same status, if no other method of defense or evasion was made then I'd claim they both sealed each other. Because once a sealing process begins, like a trap it doesn't end until it completed its task in 'trapping' or whatever the seal was effective for. In broader terms, the seal has one end goal and will complete it once triggered.
In some cases, both sides could in theory create a new seal when combating the formulas straight on and trigger some warp hole or glitch to mess up both their seals and possibly backfire. Which is why the unseal of a technique has to be specific to said seal, due to the common abuse of just being able to unseal every seal. Meaning if two seals don't correlate, there can be a misled outcome.
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A long time ago, fuinjutsu was introduced into the naruto universe, and a little time after that introduction, it was stated that even seals unbalance odd seals and vice versa if layered on top of each other. As the series went on, however, this "system" seemed to just be thrown entirely out the window, leading to the question of whether this is still even relevent or not.
In SL, fuinjutsu users regularly encounter challenges when it comes to application, restraint, and even absorption of their fuinjutsu. However, surely the fuinjutsu circles have had to deal with fuinjutsu vs fuinjutsu before at some point or another.
So how does fuinjutsu vs fuinjutsu work at this stage in the series and SL realm, where countering counters is literally half the battle?
Depends, it's very situational. Depends on the fuinjutsu used, and the counter used. Say in our example, Orochimaru used the five elements seal on Jiraiya. That's not an instakill tech, thus Jiraiya could use the unsealing tech.
If it's a seal that kills or is something instant, that is different. If it is instant, one could argue it should be void as it's unavoidable or must be used in a way via trickery, like putting said seal under a carpet or something. If they have even like a second to escape, they could maybe employ a seal to counter act it, but they would have to have IC info of said seal before the fight and know what it does and how to counter. Even then their success would depend on what seal they used.
So I don't think this is really a yes or no answer, it's very situational just like anything else.
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Don't worry, Otogakure is making seals great again
lol Jokes aside, seals can be a bit annoying. They have practically unlimited uses with 0 downsides, which means they're easily abused. All someone has to do is say they have some seals on them that absorb every kind of jutsu and a seal on them that constantly absorbs natural chakra or something and they're pretty much invincible.
And as far as being tricky about things, it's kind of hard to do so when you have to detail everything that you're trying to do. For example, if I throw something that I know is explosive at someone but do not mention that it will explode in my post, then they might strike it or just barely dodge it. But, if I then mention in my response post that it explodes, then they'll claim retroposting. But if I mention it in my previous post, then they'll obviously write their response to completely avoid any possible explosion and thus be metagaming. Same thing happens if you are trying to be sneaky with seals...Only difference is that every seal seems to just be a OHKO tactic, so avoiding them is a must.
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But what about a universal seal that prevents sealing period? Or a universal seal that absorbs chakra (IE, fuinjutsu vs a preta path-ish seal), or a barrier that prevents seals from activating? Or a seal that can release a seal from the inside? Or a seal that can create another seal-space so that the original sealer would have to unseal the victim's seal in order to do anything beyond carry them around?
Lots of what ifs I know, but even genjutsu mechanisms have more canon play by play that is easily translated to most SL genjutsu.
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But what about a universal seal that prevents sealing period? Or a universal seal that absorbs chakra (IE, fuinjutsu vs a preta path-ish seal), or a barrier that prevents seals from activating? Or a seal that can release a seal from the inside? Or a seal that can create another seal-space so that the original sealer would have to unseal the victim's seal in order to do anything beyond carry them around?
Lots of what ifs I know, but even genjutsu mechanisms have more canon play by play that is easily translated to most SL genjutsu.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSo6wJLeZYhdy3DoPGAWq-oAgYH51CN_lqV3ElxR5-FG8fFaembZpGfTpuYkA)
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The point of Fuinjutsu isn't to make it some god mod one hit ko. But if you try to abuse a system, like most 'zoners' do then yes it can be abused. But I like to nerf myself to a point where I do allow some sort of retaliation or countermeasure especially with seals. It would be unfair to just tap the ground and field control some grand seal. First of all I believe seals of great proportions i.e. Soul sealing, chakra sealing, body sealing require an extensive amount of chakra and chakra control to even pull off, let alone to spam them is something that isn't allowed in my 'book'
Being someone who grandfathered the Uzu rise here on SL I can say I've had my fair share of time in the fuinjutsu realm and trying to incorporate it regularly into my fighting style. I mean hell, when I first started this zoning roleplay scene as Kimimaro, I kept canon but skewed it so that he knew fuinjutsu just to keep up around here. Nowadays I can't survive just off taijutsu because everyone bathes in poison sauce and spiked nails.
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Nowadays I can't survive just off taijutsu because everyone bathes in poison sauce and spiked nails.
What? That's ridiculous I don't thin-
"The wind itself would be of no harm to Kaze, but it would cause the huge Dokuton cloud from the bottom to travel into their current location in a matter of seconds, and it would obviously not doing anything to Trev himself."
I'm still salty about that one.
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Back on topic.
Fūinjutsu is a double-edge sword these days, since no one in their right mind would allow themselves to be cornered into close-combat quarters with a Fūinjutsu-user. Then again no one in their right mind will allow themselves to be touched by the said Fūinjutsu-user, so in the end of all of it it becomes one big game of tag with that Fūinjutsu-user being IT.
I believe that every Fūinjutsu has a weakness, but the tricky part of it all is figuring it out and usually you have to do that by deliberately taking that Fūinjutsu. Which itself is tricky, because you can't claim that you can break out of it when you don't know the full-extent of what that particular seal does.
Like Keito pointed out, the concept behind Fūinjutsu isn't supposed to be a "Instant Hell Murder" (Street Fighter reference.), but their will be people out there that will abuse the power behind the said seals. Honestly I have no problem with Fūinjutsu-users, since I usually witness those players taking a turn to set up a specific seal and wait until next turn to activate it; which gives you one turn to figure some sort of contingency. ;)
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Being a person who utilizes concise, practical fuinjutsu (Eric knows this personally)
I have to agree with the peanut gallery and state it is indeed situational. Also, vote Tomi as your top Fuinjutsu user for free pizza! Overthrow Athos' claim of top fuinjutsu user!!!!
Most of it's speculation at best, hence fuinjutsu created needs a clear purpose 'Ie, It prevents a person from forming chakra'
Q. How does it do it?
A. 'It disrupts the balancing of the ratio between spiritual and physical energy'
Q. How is it applied?
A. 'A tag with the seal on it is placed on the victim'
Q. How is it broken conventionally?
A. 'The Victim takes the tag off their body
It's an oversimplified example, but with this system you get the idea. The steps of the fuinjutsu should be clearly put out so people can work with it in their role-play either being the caster or the target of such. If you're the target, try to be reasonable and not use claims of 'I know enough about seals so I broke out of it instantly' If you're the caster, please don't be so anal as to say 'You don't know anything so you can't break out of it'. Work with your 'victim', and help direct the flow of their attempt to break it, whether it be successful or not/be reasonable with it.
If the victim has already made a post about having a specific counter seal for a type of fuinjutsu, say in their bio, has actively been seen using it without appearing moddish, that can work. Ie, Tomi was afflicted by a Juinjutsu by Eric on his shadow. Eric's juinjutsu works via Yin based chakras, Tomi is in possession of a Yin Sealing Method style Fuinjutsu. Tomi is able to suppress Eric's juinjutsu by this mechanic, yada yada. Eric accepts that his juinjutsu isn't effectively working against Tomi, but still technically has it on Tomi's person as Tomi hasn't spent the time to study up on shadow based curse seals/doesn't have the knowledge to unless he were to go to a knowledgable Nara, yada yada. Eric removes the Juinjutsu in return for knowledge of the Yin Sealing Method.
There you have a seal of sorts countered by another seal which both players were able to agree upon and so forth.
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Be me and have like 5 fuinjutsus you never use. :D
Problem solved.
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The point of Fuinjutsu isn't to make it some god mod one hit ko...
And yet, particularly among the Uzushio sort, there are Fuinjutsu that function as a sort of 1-hit KO if successfully applied. Sealing a victim who cannot break out of the fuinjutsu, for a variety of reasons under the rainbow, into a fuinjutsu, is the prime example that I am using for this statement. Even if fuinjutsu is not designed to be 1-hit KO, what determine's a seal's strength? The chakra cost? The formula's convolution? The type of chakra used to make it? If two fuinjutsu designed to remove fuinjutsu are used on each other, what determines which one wins out? Earlier it was suggested that they both cancel out, but it would seem weird for a Branked fuinjutsu expert to best a S-ranked one with the same seal.
Back on topic.
Fūinjutsu is a double-edge sword these days, since no one in their right mind would allow themselves to be cornered into close-combat quarters with a Fūinjutsu-user...
What about techniques like the Uzumaki chakra chains? The game of tag gets real complicated real quick when there are lots of "its" (IE, Infected game mode in CoD) with varying degrees of movement and flexibility. Say hypothetically that I taught Athos how to use shadow curse and he combined it with his chakra chains. Would the two techniques stack like an equal sum or have a factor by which the two combined compares to the original?
Being a person who utilizes concise, practical fuinjutsu (Eric knows this personally)
I have to agree with the peanut gallery and state it is indeed situational...
Unlike standard ninjutsu, which fits into neat elemental categories alongside their ranks and effects, fuinjutsu seems to be all over the place in that regard. What is "stronger" with seals? "Stronger" with genjutsu is being able to use and counter it more effectively, but outside of stat systems that can be difficult to judge.
So many questions, and such a wide pool of people to give answers. I thank you all for continuing to bear with me here. :)
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It's ... heavily speculated. Kishimoto never opened the flood gates on the exact specifications of sealing techniques/what rules they must follow.
We can go back and forth, but ultimately must decide for ourselves as roleplayers and as a community if a person's sealing technique is fair/doable without restricting creativity unnecessary.
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I need to spend a couple weeks just reading on the different branches of techniques again. I've basically stop reading the manga and anime after the whole Path one-eyed Madara arc I'm just completely behind on everything. What does this have to do with Fuinjutsu? Nothing, I'm sorry.
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I need to spend a couple weeks just reading on the different branches of techniques again. I've basically stop reading the manga and anime after the whole Path one-eyed Madara arc I'm just completely behind on everything. What does this have to do with Fuinjutsu? Nothing, I'm sorry.
As far as technique branch relationships go, senjutsu beating truth seeking ball stuff and the canon ability to synchronize space-time ninjutsu is about all you missed if you were fluent up to that point. Fuinjutsu and most other SL-applicable technique types did not change at all from there to the end of the main series.
Oh, well, the Tensaigan happened in Naruto the Last. I think that's about it though.
It's ... heavily speculated. Kishimoto never opened the flood gates on the exact specifications of sealing techniques/what rules they must follow.
We can go back and forth, but ultimately must decide for ourselves as roleplayers and as a community if a person's sealing technique is fair/doable without restricting creativity unnecessary.
My questions have been aimed at finding out what is the general consensus on all of this stuff here on SL. The canon is fairly unhelpful otherwise in determining the end of the original premise of fuinjutsu cancelling fuinjutsu cancelling fuinjutsu into infinity.
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What about techniques like the Uzumaki chakra chains? The game of tag gets real complicated real quick when there are lots of "its" (IE, Infected game mode in CoD) with varying degrees of movement and flexibility. Say hypothetically that I taught Athos how to use shadow curse and he combined it with his chakra chains. Would the two techniques stack like an equal sum or have a factor by which the two combined compares to the original?
Depends on how the technique is stacked. I believe that there would be some factors that would come along with the combination of Uzumaki chakra chains, but like I said. it'll depend on how the technique is stacked, you could have the shadows engulf the entirety of the chakra chains or use the shadows that the chains create as a medium for the shadow curse. Is one different from the other? I really don't know until I see someone test their theory out by performing both variations and come to a reasonable hypothesis that one is more powerful than the other.
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What about techniques like the Uzumaki chakra chains? The game of tag gets real complicated real quick when there are lots of "its" (IE, Infected game mode in CoD) with varying degrees of movement and flexibility. Say hypothetically that I taught Athos how to use shadow curse and he combined it with his chakra chains. Would the two techniques stack like an equal sum or have a factor by which the two combined compares to the original?
Depends on how the technique is stacked. I believe that there would be some factors that would come along with the combination of Uzumaki chakra chains, but like I said. it'll depend on how the technique is stacked, you could have the shadows engulf the entirety of the chakra chains or use the shadows that the chains create as a medium for the shadow curse. Is one different from the other? I really don't know until I see someone test their theory out by performing both variations and come to a reasonable hypothesis that one is more powerful than the other.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS24ntikVKfwsiu7woyzPSz5zgqI6OyzvALpu7ZS8MY1YxEtIzu9Q)
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What about techniques like the Uzumaki chakra chains? The game of tag gets real complicated real quick when there are lots of "its" (IE, Infected game mode in CoD) with varying degrees of movement and flexibility. Say hypothetically that I taught Athos how to use shadow curse and he combined it with his chakra chains. Would the two techniques stack like an equal sum or have a factor by which the two combined compares to the original?
Depends on how the technique is stacked. I believe that there would be some factors that would come along with the combination of Uzumaki chakra chains, but like I said. it'll depend on how the technique is stacked, you could have the shadows engulf the entirety of the chakra chains or use the shadows that the chains create as a medium for the shadow curse. Is one different from the other? I really don't know until I see someone test their theory out by performing both variations and come to a reasonable hypothesis that one is more powerful than the other.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS24ntikVKfwsiu7woyzPSz5zgqI6OyzvALpu7ZS8MY1YxEtIzu9Q)
I guess you're going to go test out both hypothesis and see what sort of conclusion that you come up with? I don't speak "meme" so I don't know much about your input on this subject. :oops: