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Well, I see no harm in letting Athos carried out his Bijuu redistribution plan. We all just want to make RP better. The 3 limit rule spur Athos into taking whatever he is doing more seriously, and pushes to have it realized as soon as possible instead of dragging his feet for months after months with excuses after excuses. That's good enough for me.
The IC rules should be the focus of the moment since Athos stated that his plans wouldn't work properly without it.
I've no intention of pushing your idea aside either, Terumi. The idea just doesn't feel solid enough at the moment, and the discussion is hard to follow due to the bickering that occurs again & again. If you have time, do consider my suggestion of updating the 1st post to include any ideas/solutions that you have considered adding to it. If the 3 limit rule and Athos's plan both fail to improve Bijuu RP, then at least we'll have something to fall back on.
Personally, I would first set a trial run with one of the tailed beasts after the whole Distribution Event. I can already tell you that Miyuu doesn't desire to be part of the whole tailed beast System nor does Koji. They might be open to Terumi's idea, & attempt to Roleplay it out for their villages. I would base my judgement of this idea after watching them test it out for a bit. As for how much time an experimental test run would need to show results or not, I do not know. This test run could serve as a compromise between those who support Terumi's idea, & those do not for the time being. If it yields favorable results, we could try expanding it further and so on.
Sooo basically scrap the system we've all worked towards making better over the last year, even as this topic goes on people are aiming to make improvements... And then force everyone to make a new set of council rules, Bijuu rules, and so on just because you think this might work and that this might be slightly better than what we have going on?
I just... really can't with this topic.
I'm saying that we should give it a shot. Seems like you're irrationally clinging on to a system that has shown itself to still perpetuate the same problems despite efforts to improve on it.
No one is saying that this is guaranteed to be a better system than what we currently have, but we'll never know if we don't try it out.
Also, that isn't an argument as to why this system wouldn't potentially be better than the one we have. You're just citing how it may or may not inconvenience people, which isn't a sound argument. It's an argumentum ad consequentiam: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_consequences
Im on my phone and it scrapped my orecious post, so thisll be real brief:
1) The Council should not be both GMing the beasts and enforcing the rules, esoecially if every Council Member is garunteed to gm at least one.
2) No direct biju involvement in combatative RP, period. Kind of defeats the purpose if you ask me.
3) What other than chakra balancing will be implemented to keep certain beasts from dramatically being more valuable to chat with than others?
4) any things if certain major nations are inactive?
You mean the rules like how we are limiting the number of Bijuu a person can have, how we limited the number of challenges a person can place? Everything you are saying that we can't do, we already have started. I am going off the assumption you've been watching all of the forum activity, so I figured you were watching the progress being made.So....basically, you're now suddenly wanting to do the eerie similar idea that I gave as a new path for us to walk on......yet still want to retain the whole jinchūriki aspect and thus continue to allow the negative dogma surrounding bijū to exist? How exactly would that "fix" anything?
And what use would you need for the Statue if you can't even utilize it?
Eerily similar how? >_> My whole point is the Jinchuuriki aspect when yours is trying to remove it. I'm trying to fix the problem instead of just removing it entirely and ignoring it. If you aren't going to be open minded enough to give it a try, that's alright, I can't force you to do anything. But clinging onto the fact that bad stuff has happened, won't get you, or us as a community, anywhere.
I can use it but I don't really see what that has to do with anything at all.
Seriously? ....you're giving them to the leaders of main villages, high-tier officers of main villages, or just the main village itself. <<
You can't fix the problem by continuing to walk along the same path.
By continuing to allow jinchūriki to exist, there will always be someone who will spring up and have the desire to gather all the bijū again. Someone will fill the void of being the "big bad". And there isn't anything that can be done, rules or guidelines, to stop that from occurring....:
Unless you completely get rid of the jinchūriki aspect.
To quote you so elegantly, "If you aren't going to be open-minded enough to give it a try, that's alright, I can't force you to do anything."
The IC rules would only be able to facilitate that goal of hoarding the bijū by allowing a "Neutral" to sit idle, watch the fight, then step up and take the beast from the winner.
Let me ask you this....what does a doctor do when a cancerous tumor (one that is operable) is found within the body? Do they remove it? Or just continue to bombard it with medication and treatments, hoping it'll cure it?
And again, about the IC rules just letting a neutral party watch the fight; I AGAIN have been assuming that before you're talking smack on what people have been trying to do, you're actually reading everything first. Because in the first IC discussions, cooldowns were mentioned and were just mentioned against in the second discussion, a discussion YOU encouraged to happen because you didn't think 'the rules were talked about enough'. There literally would be no way for a Neutral party to have a chance to steal a beast right afterwards, hell, another group of hunters couldn't even jump right in after a fight >_> Let alone a neutral party.
You are comparing this situation to a cancer, let's pretend we are a community, where we all live. Now the bad kids have been drawing on the playground, taking it over, and making it so the little kids can't play. So what do we, as a community do? Remove the whole playground before a specific type of person can't control themselves, behave, or share? So therefore, every child that currently exists, or will exist in the future, now has no park because... A bunch of bad seeds ruined it? .-. No, the community, us again, would change the rules, changes the regulations, get the authorities involved. Not know what the problem is and then just remove it.So since this is my honestly thread, let's just address the fact that you are talking about me or Bocch when you are talking about people letting it get to their heads and so on ._. Because who else could you be talking about, any of the other people who haven't been able to hold onto beasts in the last few years? No, again, you are letting your experiences with two people forever taint what was once a good experience.Bijuu don't need fixing. The players I.E. us, are the ones that need to be fixed. The bijuu were never broken. We became broken because we all have this thought about some intense fight scenes after watching or reading too much action manga/anime/movie/novel and thus you have what we have now.
You're right, the bijū don't need fixing as they are a fictional trophy. The bijū system is what is broken and needs a complete overhaul. A fresh start.
And the bijū scene didn't become broken because of the combat, it became broken because people allowed personal slights to surface, grew ungodly personal attachment to a fictional aspect in a RP game, allow ignorant and wrongful behavior to persist in arguments, and outright express hateful and evil things all because one cannot get over their own damnable pride.
Literally has nothing to do with other anime/manga fights or thoughts of fights, it all boils down to ego and pride and inexplicable personal attachment.
We get rid of those acts by getting rid of the jinchūriki aspect, thus preventing an individual from gaining attachment of that life and succumbing to pride and egocentric behavior.
Hell, even if(by some forbidden magic) you managed to say you aren't talking about me or anyone else, there is no one else that logically fits that description. And yet here I am, possibly the root of the problem, not only taking the steps to try and FIX the problem but also taking the steps to remove those godly limits that you mention. No one has ever become OP BECAUSE of a Bijuu, they've become OP on their way to get a beast, or just because they hang around people. Hell, no one's 'personal attachment' to a Bijuu has ever lead to them suddenly learning all their OP Shit. That usually comes before the Bijuu, for the hunt >>
But that's why I keep saying 'As a community, as a community!' because what, we are gonna keep talking in circles, instead? >>
My original proposal was 1, but I'm willing to support any number that is 3 or under.
QuoteYou can't refute Dart's argument because you tried something similar (at least something that you claim to have been similar) and it didn't work out. You make the implicit assumption that it didn't work out because the idea itself was bad, and therefore Dart's idea wouldn't work out because it's also bad. To place that in a logical form:Wasn't my point. Point was this idea isn't how Bijuu are portrayed in Naruto. The Kage of each village sealed their Bijuu into a host, making a weapon known as Jinchuuriki. This idea removed that and instead turn Bijuu into something similar to the White Snake Sage or the Great Toad Sage, something they are not.
A: I had an idea that fell through because it was bad.
B: Dart's idea is similar to my idea.
C: Therefore, Dart's idea will fail.
In order for us to deduce C, both A and B need to be true. Well premise A can be false if you failed to consider confounding variables that led to your idea failing. And premise B can be false if your idea wasn't really similar to Dart's at all. Moving on.Quote"1) You will also be forcing villages that doesn't want to have anything to do with Bijuu take in one, by taking it away from players who actually want one. "My bad, I can't remember everything that was discussed, and the 1st post was not updated to keep track of the discussion.
No one ever said that we would be making villages that don't want a biju take one. It was explicitly stated that villages like Kirigakure (who ban bijuu entirely) would be left out of this, so one can conclude that we would be distributing the bijuu to villages that would be interested.Quote"2) What are your plans for Bijuu that doesn't have a village?"
This has already been partially addressed. See previous comments.
Re-read the whole thread, couldn't find it. Would be a big help if the 1st post is updated to keep track of things.Quote"3) It's not about the power level. Achieving the power level of a Jinchuuriki by using Sage Mode other stuff is not the same mastering your Bijuu."To solve that problem, we give the Bijuu to the most powerful Ninja of each village, and allow anyone who go to each location that these Bijuu are at, to gain their traits, V1 cloak, and ability to summon them like toads and snakes by signing a contract. Bypassing the 1 Bijuu per host, and the soon to be 3 Bijuu limit when capturing Bijuu.
It's not the same thing, but it reduces owning a bijuu if you already have the power level of a jinchuriki to a redundancy. That was the point.
Powerful player hoarding Bijuu will soon be a thing of the past. This idea basically forces everyone to forget about roleplaying as a Jinchuuriki, allow everyone to go around collection all 9 or 10 Bijuu powers/summons, remove all the previous Bijuu rules that were put into place, and make new rules based on this new, untested, alien concept. If you can't see any problem with that, then I shall put my argument to rest. Continuing on this back & forth argument will not result in anything positive, and only reinforces its flaws instead of fixing them.
If there is no trial or anything and people just up and talk to the tailed beast, how is that more special than an in-game GM creating a random character and having it do the same thing? Are they not RP authorities enough to be able to do that and have the interaction recognized?
In my opinion, if Dart's idea were to become the new norm, that would mean that pretty much anyone would be able to dip into a beast's powers depending on the village they're part of. For fairness sake, it might have to change that people hold onto 'passives' when they master a beast because they'd only be able to master the one that is part of the village they're aligned to. This could also generate more intravillage RP because it'd be more difficult for a 'rogue' ninja to exist if they don't have any bijuu buff on their side, meaning more people might make alignments towards villages.
And as for RPing with the beast, I don't see why it can't be a kind of mount myoboku within the village that takes you there. Maybe like some sort of special space/time doorway that leads you to the bijuu?So it'd be easy for villagers to access it but more difficult for an attacking village to get to it. They'd have to go after someone high-ranking or well versed in order to find out where the doorway is hidden or how to unlock it.
I'm liking this. Of course it should be no easy task to reach the bijuu, and it should be harder still to convince the bijuu that you're worthy of being it's "student." Otherwise you'd have every one running around with gifts from the bijuu without having actually worked for it.
I don't know if I think people from the village should have it easier interacting with the bijuu. Finding it, maybe, but actually interacting it with it should probably be determined based on the temperament of the bijuu itself.
So Terumi, what your idea does is;
1) Remove the need for Bijuu rules.
2) Take down the list of official Bijuu hosts/holders.
3) Disband the Bijuu council.
4) Render the 3 Bijuu limit discussion a waste of time.
5) Tell Athos that we have no need for his Bijuu plan.
6) Tell people that they are not allowed to RP as Jinchuuriki, at least not officially.
7) End all on-going RP/challenges that involves Bijuu.Take the Bijuu away from everyone, including those who earned their Bijuu and is role-playing pretty well with it, destroying the RP that they have built around their Bijuu.
What you are doing is basically the same as removing RP with the reason being that there will always been someone who claims a bunch of abilities and make themselves invincible to shit all over RP. If you go through with this, the next step in making RP better would be to banned EMS, Rinnegan, Jashin, Edo Tensei etc.
You are not fixing RP, you are removing RP and the time that everyone has put into it.
The bijū would be free to all people of the realm to RP with as mentors of wisdom and encouragement. Even so far as gaining access to their passive traits and forming bonds as the RP with them progress. It would also foster more beneficial and healthy international relationships by allowing pilgrimages to the nations that hold the bijū to learn their abilities, of their wisdom, or take a more spiritual path such as Ninshu. It would create a beautiful, blossoming plateau where literally EVERYONE in the realm would have access to the bijū without being stored away or hidden inside a person or hoarded from the world.So....basically, you're now suddenly wanting to do the eerie similar idea that I gave as a new path for us to walk on......yet still want to retain the whole jinchūriki aspect and thus continue to allow the negative dogma surrounding bijū to exist? How exactly would that "fix" anything?
And what use would you need for the Statue if you can't even utilize it?
Eerily similar how? >_> My whole point is the Jinchuuriki aspect when yours is trying to remove it. I'm trying to fix the problem instead of just removing it entirely and ignoring it. If you aren't going to be open minded enough to give it a try, that's alright, I can't force you to do anything. But clinging onto the fact that bad stuff has happened, won't get you, or us as a community, anywhere.
I can use it but I don't really see what that has to do with anything at all.
So....basically, you're now suddenly wanting to do the eerie similar idea that I gave as a new path for us to walk on......yet still want to retain the whole jinchūriki aspect and thus continue to allow the negative dogma surrounding bijū to exist? How exactly would that "fix" anything?
And what use would you need for the Statue if you can't even utilize it?
Bijuu don't need fixing. The players I.E. us, are the ones that need to be fixed. The bijuu were never broken. We became broken because we all have this thought about some intense fight scenes after watching or reading too much action manga/anime/movie/novel and thus you have what we have now.
You all have already erased the point of jinchuriki when you fight each other for tailed beasts that while using characters so powerful that the power boost that you'd get from it is more than negligible...
If you mean canon-wise, the jinchs were village weapons that were to be used in times of war. Notice how Takigakure is the only non-major village to have a tailed beast in the canon (Amegakure/Akatsuki is not counted in this example). The point of true jinchurikii stopped translating well into SL when as weapons they paled in comparison to what the villages could muster otherwise.
Not to mention there has not been a major SL village vs village war in half a decade if not more, much less one that relied on its jinchurikii as major sources of power. It's not just the guys fighting for beasts that minimized their existence as weapons.
This idea to me, would be better served if we just scrap the tailed beasts and encourage the kages of the villages to continue doing their jobs, with great gusto. Teaching people jutsu, mentoring newcomers, fostering village cohesion, isn't that what the leaders of the realm are supposed to be doing (and in many cases are doing?)?
I know some time ago Kage was basically the main GM for Amegakure, and he looked out for Ame RPers. It sounds like you want to make the tailed beasts a few hairs short of that when that would better be suited for the actual realm leaders.
I'm saying that the tailed beasts can (and should) be used as an additional tool by the village leaders to build up their citizens. Doing things the way that Dart proposed would allow that. You're right that the bijuu kind of became worthless when the villages began to produce more powerful weapons, which is the point I was making. Particularly I was talking about the characters who themselves act as de facto weapons for the village.
I have a few questions thou;
1) Will the current hosts/summoners be forced to give up and "enshrine" their Bijuu at their village, or hand it to the village that was listed?
2) The Nibi doesn't have a village assigned, so does the current host/summoner gets to keep it?
3) What if a Kage of a non-canon village wants a Bijuu, and actually went around attacking other villages for their Bijuu? Do he get to keep it if he manages to overwhelm the entire village?
I actually really like this idea. It's a great way of fostering roleplay. I think we should allow the beasts to gift people chakra or teach them abilities. This just gives some of the newer roleplayers more of an incentive to interact with them, and allows us to do more with the biju themselves.
I also second Bec's suggestion that we should make all the tailed beasts the same level if we do do this.
