Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Masane on May 18, 2016, 05:06:50 AM
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https://www.quora.com/How-would-fire-behave-as-gravity-increases
Having read this would you say that fire could be crushed by gravity?
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https://www.quora.com/How-would-fire-behave-as-gravity-increases
Having read this would you say that fire could be crushed by gravity?
For future reference, combine your questions into a single thread rather than making a new one.
And it's contextual as to what exactly happens in a SL setting.
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<未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias Not surprisingly at this point, the woman whisked herself away using her precious spacetime technique. Although he did notice the sudden shift of the chemical composition of the descending rain, he didn't think anything of it until it coincided with a slow decline in his chakra, stunted by --
> (1h37m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias the armor that shielded him. Tobias reacted accordingly by absorbing the chakra that fueled this pesky rain into his armor, eventually restoring what he had lost performing the two Doton techniques earlier. This would continue so long as the rain fell. --
> (1h37m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias His next course of action was to lift his left hand in the woman's direction. Tiny joints displaced trapped gases with an audible "crack" as he curled his slender digits just slightly. This subtle motion manipulated seized the very fabric of spacetime around them, molding the boundless entity -
> (1h37m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias into a blanket that would wrap around the metaphorical pig before him. This of course, would manifest itself as an imperceptible "force" pressing against her in all directions, seizing her in a telekinetic grip of sorts. He made sure to apply a staggering amount of force against every inch of -
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias the woman's body, a force so strong in fact that he wasn't sure if he could produce it with his physical body even with his inimitable speed and strength. This of course would eliminate the possibility of her tossing or even dropping her damned kunai since the gravitational field was applied --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias to everything on her person, including her little phoenix. Assuming he was successful in this (which he should have been considering it was instant), he would close his hand into a fist, causing the forces applied to the woman's body to increase exponentially. This would culminate in --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias everything within the field collapsing in on a single point, creating a perfectly spherical collection of flesh, bone, and everything else so unfortunate as to be caught within it.
Without a moments hesitation the girl used the stored nature energy in her right bracelet entering Sage mode at the same time his Preta did it's job. Simultaneously she formed the rib cage and four arms of her Susano'o. Two arms held and drew back a bow. The entire form of the ( c )
> (1h25m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane Susano'o was formed with her Bakuton chakra. Enter her Bakuton Susie as she called it. By the time his hands moved she had launched the arrow at speeds rivaling that of a bullet shot from a 50 caliber rifle. Forced from Senjutsu, it would not be wise fro him to absorb this, ( c )
> (1h20m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane lest he be be reduced to ash as those who absorb too much nature energy from her particular Sage transformation. Moving to avoid the explosive arrow would mean being vulnerable to the poison and ultimately risking perminate damage to his chakra system. As for her clay snake, it would have ( c )
> (1h15m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane by now taken her form as intended and remained underground suppressing its chakra signature with the use of the Mujin Meisai. As for her sudden crushing predicament. Without the ability to toss her tool she was left with few options. Her Koton was her first insinct but it would only ( c )
> (1h9m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane her situation worse by adding to her weight making it harder for her to move and free herself from the crushing force. Her only survivable option was her Incineration technique. With the use of this jutsu she would be free of the force of the gravity but it presented a new ( c )
> (1h7m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane problem. In intense gravity, fire burns hotter and harder due to the gravity forcing more oxygen into the flames. In this case the fire was literally now her body. With her body now an open fire, she would need to focus her chakra flow in order to contain and control the blaze. ( c)
> (1h2m) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane As such remaining in the gravitational force would be more than exhausting. Her kunai fell to the ground completely destroyed as she no longer had a mouth to hold it with. She moved out of the crushing force and returned to her normal state. She hated the fact that she was forced to use ( c )
> (58m39s) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane this so soon seeing as her now wet frame would prevent the activation any further. It was of no consequence. She darted away from the area moving to circle him again as her small bird was crushed beneath the massive force generated. That was a problem for her but it would have be a loss now. ( c
> (54m16s) Uchiha 爆弾 Masane As she moved she focused on him and aimed a Senjutsu enhanced Amatarasu at his head once again.
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There are a few errors in my wording but nothing fatal. Im sure you get the jist of my actions.
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Why are you bringing this to the forum despite it being over now? Without providing relevant information in the conversation no less. Lol
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You can't deposit (deposition is the physical transition of a gas directly to a solid) fire because fire is a chemical process of oxidation in a combustion reaction, but you can theoretically deposit flames because flames are gaseous parts of fire. A gas has mass. Gases can be deposited. That is an observable physical process.
A gas can be deposited in one of two ways: 1)Removing energy from the system to decrease the movement of gaseous molecules or 2)compressing the gas, which means pack more gas molecules into a smaller region of space Masane. That means you are decreasing the volume.
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Because I really want to know if Im wrong. If science is wrong. It wont over with until he acted how I use to.
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Okay. The Incineration Tech literally turns the user into fire...not flames. So what happens to me in my fiery state? And I 'Crushed' or would the fire...me burn harder due to the rapid feeding of oxygen caused by the gravity?
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....Again, fire is a chemical process. The physical thing that you are turned into are FLAMES. Fire is the chemical process that creates FLAMES.
The science isn't wrong, you just misinterpreted the science because you have a poor understanding of physics and chemistry lol. This is Tobias, by the way. So you're wrong, but the science is not.
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Ok I knew this....and Gravity would not destroy the flames they would be more tear drop in shape. The more intense the gravity the more forceful the heated air rises creating higher plumes on the tear shaped flames.
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https://m.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3fmgx2/how_does_gravity_affect_fire_theoretically_if_we/
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No man. Why don't you understand this. Flames only have a tear drop shape on earth because gravity is pulling the surrounding air towards the earth's center of mass, which is directly below.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9zdD7lfB0Fs/maxresdefault.jpg)
The one on the right is fire in space. Do you know why it looks like that? There's no gravity acting upon the flame in any particular direction, so it makes a spherical shape. It's the same reason why planet's form spherical shapes, as does water and pretty much everything else that's a gas or a liquid.
Now apply the opposite effect, where gravity acts upon an object from every direction. It's going to be compressed into a sphere as well, but it will become more and more dense as the object's mass is compressed into a smaller area. The same thing happens to the flames making up your body and your susano'o. The heated air can't rise anywhere because it's being compressed from all directions just like everything else caught within the attack.
Literally all you're doing is strawmanning me. I never said anything about gravity destroying the flames, so all you've done is lied about what I said in an attempt to give yourself greater rhetorical flexibility.
In addition to this, bringing up how gravity affects the shape of flames on earth is a red herring because earth's gravitational field pulls the flame and surrounding air in on direction: downward; whereas my technique is compressing it from every direction. Meaning the GAS that makes up the FLAMES that make up YOUR body, are compressed in the same manner as your human body, your susano'o and the molecules surrounding you that are caught in this gravitational field. You died. It's no big deal.
Also I recommend that you take some rudimentary physics and chemistry courses, because this is like, middle school level stuff.
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All you did was make the fire smaller. Fire can change shape and my body is fire thus can do the same. If your gravity did not destroy the fire...how am I dead? You never extinguished the flames. You made them smaller by compressing them. In my fiery state, I have no organs or bones to crush. I am literally fire. As stated > http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Incineration_Technique < in this link.
(Not the bones or organ things but being fire and manipulating said fire.)
I have not lied about jack. You said I died by being crushed. You mentioned bones and such...that ar no longer bones BUT FIRE. Sooooo. if you did not destroy the flames.....Im not dead.
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Why do people have to argue so much about physics in a game that's based off a world where people can lift massive boulders, leap many meters in a single bound, and shoot lightning from their hands? :(
But in this instance, if Masane is made of flames, wouldn't you just compress her into a superheated/condensed ball of fire? She would be a gas (kind of), so that's compressible. So basically, she'd be smushed into a tiny ball of fire.
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yes. Until I exited the gravity field. Whether or not I could move out is irrelevant because my arrow would have caused the applied gravity to stop by killing him or forming him to break the Preta and get poisoned.
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Why do zone fights have to be so derrogatory nowadays? Call it characteization or whatever but there is really no need to talk down an opponent in the middle of a post.
Why do people have to argue so much about physics in a game that's based off a world where people can lift massive boulders, leap many meters in a single bound, and shoot lightning from their hands? :(
In short, because the only difference in the world's physical mechanics is how the living creatures of the world are able to utilize energy to manipulate the world around them. The difference is not so great that physics doesn't apply period. Normal lightning still moves near the speed of light, Raiton is just slower because the cause (chakra) is slower than real life cause of electron movement.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2636010/How-fire-EXPLOSION-Scientists-test-method-wildfires-stopped-tracks-explosives.html
A conventional fire can be put out with explosions, snuffing it with a cap or glass, etc.
A Narutoverse flame can be put out with close to the same thing.
Now, here's the jist of what is described here:
the gravitational field was applied --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias to everything on her person, including her little phoenix. Assuming he was successful in this (which he should have been considering it was instant), he would close his hand into a fist, causing the forces applied to the woman's body to increase exponentially. This would culminate in --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias everything within the field collapsing in on a single point, creating a perfectly spherical collection of flesh, bone, and everything else so unfortunate as to be caught within it.
Gravity is used to compress a space around Masane. Masane converts herself into fire in order to prevent being crushed, which is fine in an instantaneous moment of time because all three parts of a fire: oxygen, heat, and fuel (chakra) are all in one place still.
However, given a certain amount of time, that held in place space is going to run out of oxygen (heat will increase because a decrease in volume and dramatic increase in pressure and her fuel, chakra, remains intact even if drained) presuming that the gravity is keeping oxygen away from the flames.
But is the gravitational field keeping oxygen from the flames though? Probably not: if the area of affect of the gravity is spherical and it collapses inward with increasing strength (but not enough to create a black hole) then the surrounding gas would merely fill in the space. It is unlikely then that the flames will be completely cut off from oxygen, and so the fire would continue burning in some capacity.
The only thing that is important here is that the fire still has oxygen, still has a fuel source, and is still hot, all three of which are true. The fire would only go out completely if it were separated from the surrounding air. If the incineration technique literally turns one's body into fire, then Masane's fire body would be compressed and maybe burn more brightly, but it would not be extinguished. If you compressed a member of the Hozuki clan into a small jar, presuming you could fit the entire liquid into the container, you would not kill them from the compression alone. Similar concept here.
In addition to this, bringing up how gravity affects the shape of flames on earth is a red herring because earth's gravitational field pulls the flame and surrounding air in on direction: downward; whereas my technique is compressing it from every direction. Meaning the GAS that makes up the FLAMES that make up YOUR body, are compressed in the same manner as your human body, your susano'o and the molecules surrounding you that are caught in this gravitational field. You died. It's no big deal.
The human body is misshapen and fails to function entirely when crushed. Gas does not have that fatality to it and can expand back out again without permanent deformation. No, Masane should not be dead, and your own understanding of the science is overwhelming your sense of why the incineration and similar techniques were created in the first place: to avoid physical injury to the body, which this gravitational compress technique most certainly is the way it is written.
The only way to kill her like this would be to keep her in that ball until she runs out of chakra. If she leaves the transformation, then she is dead.
She darted away from the area moving to circle him again as her small bird was crushed beneath the massive force generated.
This though is not going to happen. Masane, you can't leave the gravitational field all willy nilly. That's like walking out of a chubaku tensei that you happen to be the epicenter of. As earlier stated, gravity would keep you in place even if it wouldn't immediately kill you. You would need to use space-time ninjutsu to escape the ball of gravity, not just phase through it.
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Why do zone fights have to be so derrogatory nowadays? Call it characteization or whatever but there is really no need to talk down an opponent in the middle of a post.
Why do people have to argue so much about physics in a game that's based off a world where people can lift massive boulders, leap many meters in a single bound, and shoot lightning from their hands? :(
In short, because the only difference in the world's physical mechanics is how the living creatures of the world are able to utilize energy to manipulate the world around them. The difference is not so great that physics doesn't apply period. Normal lightning still moves near the speed of light, Raiton is just slower because the cause (chakra) is slower than real life cause of electron movement.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2636010/How-fire-EXPLOSION-Scientists-test-method-wildfires-stopped-tracks-explosives.html
A conventional fire can be put out with explosions, snuffing it with a cap or glass, etc.
A Narutoverse flame can be put out with close to the same thing.
Now, here's the jist of what is described here:
the gravitational field was applied --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias to everything on her person, including her little phoenix. Assuming he was successful in this (which he should have been considering it was instant), he would close his hand into a fist, causing the forces applied to the woman's body to increase exponentially. This would culminate in --
> (1h36m) <未来> Prosvetlen ❖ Tobias everything within the field collapsing in on a single point, creating a perfectly spherical collection of flesh, bone, and everything else so unfortunate as to be caught within it.
Gravity is used to compress a space around Masane. Masane converts herself into fire in order to prevent being crushed, which is fine in an instantaneous moment of time because all three parts of a fire: oxygen, heat, and fuel (chakra) are all in one place still.
However, given a certain amount of time, that held in place space is going to run out of oxygen (heat will increase because a decrease in volume and dramatic increase in pressure and her fuel, chakra, remains intact even if drained) presuming that the gravity is keeping oxygen away from the flames.
But is the gravitational field keeping oxygen from the flames though? Probably not: if the area of affect of the gravity is spherical and it collapses inward with increasing strength (but not enough to create a black hole) then the surrounding gas would merely fill in the space. It is unlikely then that the flames will be completely cut off from oxygen, and so the fire would continue burning in some capacity.
The only thing that is important here is that the fire still has oxygen, still has a fuel source, and is still hot, all three of which are true. The fire would only go out completely if it were separated from the surrounding air. If the incineration technique literally turns one's body into fire, then Masane's fire body would be compressed and maybe burn more brightly, but it would not be extinguished. If you compressed a member of the Hozuki clan into a small jar, presuming you could fit the entire liquid into the container, you would not kill them from the compression alone. Similar concept here.
In addition to this, bringing up how gravity affects the shape of flames on earth is a red herring because earth's gravitational field pulls the flame and surrounding air in on direction: downward; whereas my technique is compressing it from every direction. Meaning the GAS that makes up the FLAMES that make up YOUR body, are compressed in the same manner as your human body, your susano'o and the molecules surrounding you that are caught in this gravitational field. You died. It's no big deal.
The human body is misshapen and fails to function entirely when crushed. Gas does not have that fatality to it and can expand back out again without permanent deformation. No, Masane should not be dead, and your own understanding of the science is overwhelming your sense of why the incineration and similar techniques were created in the first place: to avoid physical injury to the body, which this gravitational compress technique most certainly is the way it is written.
The only way to kill her like this would be to keep her in that ball until she runs out of chakra. If she leaves the transformation, then she is dead.
She darted away from the area moving to circle him again as her small bird was crushed beneath the massive force generated.
This though is not going to happen. Masane, you can't leave the gravitational field all willy nilly. That's like walking out of a chubaku tensei that you happen to be the epicenter of. As earlier stated, gravity would keep you in place even if it wouldn't immediately kill you. You would need to use space-time ninjutsu to escape the ball of gravity, not just phase through it.
Like I said, me being able to move is irrelevant because my attack would either hit and destroy him or force him to focus on not dying ceasing the application of the gravity. Either way my point is that Im not the dead one here. This is ridiculous. If you can counter, just do it and stop bitching about how you were going to lose. You claim you could dodge 'easy peasy' but all you did was complain. This was not even an important fight so I faill to understand why one would fight soooooo hard to say they won when they are clearly wrong. Why can no one accept defeat here?
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Why can't you get upset and not go on a tirade?
How he absorbed the chakra based attack that last came at him is unclear, whether he used preta or not. Additionally, considering the range of the oreta, he could dodge your attack (or absorb it) and then try attacking you with the same thing and we be right back to this conundrum.
The point of bringing a topic like this to the forum is to get some level of input on the post. Well, now you have gotten some, there is no need to get ranty.
Anyways, make ya points and carry on with discussion. I will lock thus read if either of you decide to throw more punches than necessary.
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I just did a simple skim and will read up more on this in a bit, but let's sit down and remember an additional law of physics and reality that is present in SL: NINJA MAGIC
Even NINJA MAGIC has it's own predefined set of rules. But we have to take a bit more than a grain of salt in realizing that it can be used to manipulate nature and even the laws of physics (though certain things like time is out of the question). For example: Fire and flames are seen as the same thing when attempting to absorb or seal them within a certain medium.
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Eric, I really just wanted to know how I was dead when I have shown proof that you cant destroy a fire with that amount of gravity.
He clearly used the Preta to absorb the rain...and the Arrow was Senjutsu enhanced so absorbing it was out of the question. You can say Im going on a tirade all you want but I just wanted to know how in this situation...did I die. For me to see how Im wrong, I need to see what everyone else thinks. I failed to see how he could say I was dead so I brought it here where you proved my point.
Im sick of getting in these situations and being blamed for starting crap when Im just asking a question. He should have offered some evidence to his claims but he didnt. Same thing with the clay clone ordeal. I did not know that there was some unwritten rule about stuff not being possible if it was not shown in the manga. I brought it here so that it could be talked about and so one side could be proven right and again, Eric you have done that so I really have nothing else to say. Sorry I was 'Ranty' or 'Starting drama'. It was not my intent.
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Eric, I really just wanted to know how I was dead when I have shown proof that you cant destroy a fire with that amount of gravity.
He clearly used the Preta to absorb the rain...and the Arrow was Senjutsu enhanced so absorbing it was out of the question. You can say Im going on a tirade all you want but I just wanted to know how in this situation...did I die. For me to see how Im wrong, I need to see what everyone else thinks. I failed to see how he could say I was dead so I brought it here where you proved my point.
Im sick of getting in these situations and being blamed for starting crap when Im just asking a question. He should have offered some evidence to his claims but he didnt. Same thing with the clay clone ordeal. I did not know that there was some unwritten rule about stuff not being possible if it was not shown in the manga. I brought it here so that it could be talked about and so one side could be proven right and again, Eric you have done that so I really have nothing else to say. Sorry I was 'Ranty' or 'Starting drama'. It was not my intent.
It's the same as usual, the way you present your case and less that you're presenting it at all. Mostly near the end of your posts you have been picking at a fight:
If you can counter, just do it and stop bitching about how you were going to lose. You claim you could dodge 'easy peasy' but all you did was complain. This was not even an important fight so I faill to understand why one would fight soooooo hard to say they won when they are clearly wrong. Why can no one accept defeat here?
Anyways:
Tobias reacted accordingly by absorbing the chakra that fueled this pesky rain into his armor, eventually restoring what he had lost performing the two Doton techniques earlier.
This is where, to me, it gets ambiguous on whether or not he used Preta Path or not. There may have been earlier usage where he specified using Preta path, but that much was not posted up on here and thus I have no clue.