Shinobi Legends Forum

Casual => Spam => Topic started by: Duelist on October 30, 2008, 01:17:03 pm

Title: Naruto 423
Post by: Duelist on October 30, 2008, 01:17:03 pm
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/8/naruto/chapter.69749/

Its not one manga, but the chapters up there.


Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Kisame on October 30, 2008, 05:32:11 pm
wow it came out a day early
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: sushigewd2.0 on October 30, 2008, 09:02:02 pm
poor kakashi...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on October 30, 2008, 09:18:08 pm
that was an okay chapter.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: klaymank on October 30, 2008, 09:30:49 pm
XD There's a Typo Thrings and Centre
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 30, 2008, 11:39:02 pm
Kakashi dead... highly doubt it...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Abysss on October 30, 2008, 11:47:21 pm
No way Kakashi died from just a small nail...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on October 31, 2008, 12:02:09 am
I bet in the next chapter there is some twist that some random thingy took the hit instead of kakashi
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 31, 2008, 12:03:21 am
That was Kakashi using some MS jutsu, and the blood is from his eye bleeding due to the strain ^^
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on October 31, 2008, 12:12:10 am
and are they sure that M knight shamalon isn't writing this? >>
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: SuperSeal on October 31, 2008, 01:30:23 am
and are they sure that M knight shamalon isn't writing this? >>
He writes horror doesn't he?

*edit*
Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on October 31, 2008, 02:00:49 am
and are they sure that M knight shamalon isn't writing this? >>

why him?

I bet in the next chapter there is some twist that some random thingy took the hit instead of kakashi

he might of caught it with his mouth and it destroyed the mask so we get to see his face? >.>
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 31, 2008, 02:01:54 am
I bet in the next chapter there is some twist that some random thingy took the hit instead of kakashi

he might of caught it with his mouth and it destroyed the mask so we get to see his face? >.>
I was praying that would happen
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Omega Purple on October 31, 2008, 08:20:37 am
Kakashi can't be dead.... T-T
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 31, 2008, 08:25:20 am
Kakashi can't be dead.... T-T
Like I said, doubt he is
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Omega Purple on October 31, 2008, 08:38:00 am
Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, so many cool characters have been killed off, so I wouldn't put it past him to kill off Kakashi in such a lame way...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 31, 2008, 08:39:16 am
Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, so many cool characters have been killed off, so I wouldn't put it past him to kill off Kakashi in such a lame way...
Well if he dies a bet he'll take Pein with him.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: klaymank on October 31, 2008, 11:06:30 am
I like how it's destroying itself.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on October 31, 2008, 11:32:50 am
Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
Well, they did skip a lot of scenes in between.
Notice one page, they are all "we can do it!" and Pien has a chidori inches away from him. and then the next, they are all on their backs in pain, with Kakashi stuck under a building?

There was a time difference in there where they all got their asses kicked.
By the way, who else besides me wanted to see some Ino-Shika-Cho Sr. action here?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: SuperSeal on October 31, 2008, 12:22:25 pm
Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
By the way, who else besides me wanted to see some Ino-Shika-Cho Sr. action here?
I believe everyone did.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on October 31, 2008, 12:23:22 pm
Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
By the way, who else besides me wanted to see some Ino-Shika-Cho Sr. action here?
I believe everyone did.
I didn't
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Demon Bandit Taumaster on October 31, 2008, 03:29:07 pm
They always skip the good parts.><
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on October 31, 2008, 09:22:03 pm
Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, so many cool characters have been killed off, so I wouldn't put it past him to kill off Kakashi in such a lame way...

*cough* Col. Hughes *cough.

I like how it's destroying itself.

the series?

Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
Well, they did skip a lot of scenes in between.
Notice one page, they are all "we can do it!" and Pien has a chidori inches away from him. and then the next, they are all on their backs in pain, with Kakashi stuck under a building?

There was a time difference in there where they all got their asses kicked.
By the way, who else besides me wanted to see some Ino-Shika-Cho Sr. action here?

something tells me that they are going to do that even with the final climactic fight that will end the series.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Kisame on October 31, 2008, 10:39:22 pm
lol i dont think kakashi is dead, but imagine if he was naruto would really be hurt what with jiraiya already being dead
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 01, 2008, 02:33:09 am
Aaaawwww come on, you mean to tell me Pein is so strong he can kill Kakashi with a simple nail? This is bs, who's writing this stuff now?
By the way, who else besides me wanted to see some Ino-Shika-Cho Sr. action here?
THAT'S JUST WRONG MIHA!

why would you want to see that?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 01, 2008, 02:34:49 am
no idea.

lol i dont think kakashi is dead, but imagine if he was naruto would really be hurt what with jiraiya already being dead

i would laugh. >.>
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 01, 2008, 02:35:42 am
no idea.

lol i dont think kakashi is dead, but imagine if he was naruto would really be hurt what with jiraiya already being dead

i would laugh. >.>
I not sure what I'd do
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: PyroPrinny on November 01, 2008, 05:12:17 am
I hope Kakashi dies. >_> It would help strengthen Naruto's character...Though, I'm pretty sure he's not going to be dead because Kishimoto still needs to explain how Kakashi got his MS. I wonder if this is the big event that Kishi said was going to happen to Kakashi. I'm thinking he's going to either die or lose his sharingan eye.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Omega Purple on November 01, 2008, 11:54:56 am
Eh, well the last bit did say that Kakashi left something behind. So he msut have figured out Pein's secret.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 02, 2008, 12:55:55 am
i thought he just figured out god realms powers
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: sushigewd2.0 on November 02, 2008, 02:44:59 pm
does anyone understand Pein's motivation?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 02, 2008, 11:52:12 pm
does anyone understand Pein's motivation?
He wants the 9 bijuu to create an awesomely powerful weapon, which could destroy a whole country in one blast.
Using this, he would start another great shinobi war, would sell there strength to one country, and completely destroy one country.
After this display of power, he hopes after the people see this power, they will be to scared to ever start another war.
That will lead to his one goal, peace.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 03, 2008, 12:43:58 am
no i thought he was going to use the weapon to rule the world.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 03, 2008, 12:45:09 am
We kind of, his goal is world peace.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: hiro on November 03, 2008, 01:04:31 am
PROOF NOW! >_>
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 03, 2008, 01:05:13 am
Too lazy to find it!
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Kisame on November 03, 2008, 05:09:30 pm
wasnt his goal to use the bijju's to create a monopoly of war around the war, and then akatsuki would become mercenaries and be paid to totally annihilate and win the war for the country that paid the highest price to use them?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 03, 2008, 11:14:54 pm
wasnt his goal to use the bijju's to create a monopoly of war around the war, and then akatsuki would become mercenaries and be paid to totally annihilate and win the war for the country that paid the highest price to use them?
Yes, and after they won the war with that awesonely powerful weapon that would scare the other countries into never starting another war.
Remember when Pein was young he group in war and just wanted it to stop... so this is his way of doing that lol
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 04, 2008, 12:15:15 am
Icebooger is correct. If you want proof, go search for yourself...

 :smt110
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 12:16:09 am
Icebooger is correct. If you want proof, go search for yourself...

 :smt110
I'm Icebooger now am I ^^
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 04, 2008, 12:20:33 am
..does it look like I have a face that tells false tales?!
 :twisted:
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 12:21:26 am
*Cowers*
No Sir...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 04, 2008, 12:23:17 am
*twiddles his thumbs*

... I just wonder if the copy ninja ever finished pervy sage's final book...that would be a major tragedy...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 12:25:34 am
*twiddles his thumbs*

... I just wonder if the copy ninja ever finished pervy sage's final book...that would be a major tragedy...

I wanna read it... I wonder if they'll actually write them and release them lol
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 04, 2008, 12:35:40 am
...it would outsell the bible, no doubt...
 :roll:
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 12:40:18 am
...it would outsell the bible, no doubt...
 :roll:
I'd buy about 5 copies  :oops:
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 04, 2008, 03:55:43 am
Yes, and after they won the war with that awesonely powerful weapon that would scare the other countries into never starting another war.
Remember when Pein was young he group in war and just wanted it to stop... so this is his way of doing that lol

I disagree.  I do not think Pein's motives were altruistic.

He, first and foremost, wanted power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/329/10/

Read from that page until the end.  "World Domination" is Akatsuki's final goal.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 04:00:06 am
Yes, and after they won the war with that awesonely powerful weapon that would scare the other countries into never starting another war.
Remember when Pein was young he group in war and just wanted it to stop... so this is his way of doing that lol

I disagree.  I do not think Pein's motives were altruistic.

He, first and foremost, wanted power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/329/10/

Read from that page until the end.  "World Domination" is Akatsuki's final goal.
Who said Pein's Final goal is Akatsuki's final goal?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 04, 2008, 04:56:21 am
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 04:58:13 am
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
But as we have seen, is Pein actually the head of Akataski?
No.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: PyroPrinny on November 04, 2008, 05:00:04 am
...it would outsell the bible, no doubt...
 :roll:

It might not outsell the bible. After all, The Bible's one of the oldest fictional tales out there. I think The Oddesy is older, so that might have a higher sell amount than The Bible. But this story would probably be up there in sales.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 04, 2008, 05:02:20 am
...it would outsell the bible, no doubt...
 :roll:

It might not outsell the bible. After all, The Bible's one of the oldest fictional tales out there. I think The Oddesy is older, so that might have a higher sell amount than The Bible. But this story would probably be up there in sales.
psh... gilgamesh is older
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
But as we have seen, is Pein actually the head of Akataski?
No.
then who is?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 04, 2008, 05:02:40 am
Who said Pein's Final goal is Akatsuki's final goal?

Fair enough.  Show me where Pein said otherwise.

Pein was the one making those statements.  At that time, he was acting head of Akatsuki.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 05:04:10 am
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
But as we have seen, is Pein actually the head of Akataski?
No.
then who is?
If you bother to read the Manga you should know

Who said Pein's Final goal is Akatsuki's final goal?

Fair enough.  Show me where Pein said otherwise.

Pein was the one making those statements.  At that time, he was acting head of Akatsuki.
I too lazy to find the proof, don't wanna search through chapters of the Manga
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 04, 2008, 05:05:23 am
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
But as we have seen, is Pein actually the head of Akataski?
No.
then who is?
If you bother to read the Manga you should know
and I didn't bother to memorize it, so who is?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 05:06:55 am
generally when a person makes a group, and that group's goal is world domination, the person wants world domination
But as we have seen, is Pein actually the head of Akataski?
No.
then who is?
If you bother to read the Manga you should know
and I didn't bother to memorize it, so who is?
Madara, it shows him giving orders to Pein.
Also lately he has been giving the Orders, telling Sasuke and Co. what to do while Sending Pein to Konoha
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 04, 2008, 06:39:23 am
Yes, and after they won the war with that awesonely powerful weapon that would scare the other countries into never starting another war.
Remember when Pein was young he group in war and just wanted it to stop... so this is his way of doing that lol

I disagree.  I do not think Pein's motives were altruistic.

He, first and foremost, wanted power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/329/10/

Read from that page until the end.  "World Domination" is Akatsuki's final goal.

thank you for helping to prove the point i stated.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 04, 2008, 08:10:10 am
Madara, it shows him giving orders to Pein.
Also lately he has been giving the Orders, telling Sasuke and Co. what to do while Sending Pein to Konoha

Yes, Madara is Pein's superior.  But as with most organizations, Pein was acting leader and the public face of Akatsuki as long as it served Madara's purposes.

Are you actually saying that somewhere in the Manga, Pein reveals an altruistic purpose explicitly?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 08:11:29 am
Madara, it shows him giving orders to Pein.
Also lately he has been giving the Orders, telling Sasuke and Co. what to do while Sending Pein to Konoha

Yes, Madara is Pein's superior.  But as with most organizations, Pein was acting leader and the public face of Akatsuki as long as it served Madara's purposes.

Are you actually saying that somewhere in the Manga, Pein reveals an altruistic purpose explicitly?
I can't remember if he actually says it, or it has just been draw from things he says etc...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on November 04, 2008, 12:27:03 pm
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/

Over the span of a few pages, he says that he will make an extremly powerful weapon, and use it to end war.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 12:42:45 pm
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/

Over the span of a few pages, he says that he will make an extremly powerful weapon, and use it to end war.
Thank Miha, I knew it was somewhere like that, but I couldn't be bothered looking.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 04, 2008, 02:34:07 pm
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/

Over the span of a few pages, he says that he will make an extremly powerful weapon, and use it to end war.

Well, your source is a step in the right direction - however, I still do not see anything other than an emo power trip.

(Because of pain & suffering . . . ) Pein says, "I've grown from a person into a God."

Pein says, "As a God, what I say & think becomes the Law of a God."

Jiraiya asks, "What are you trying to accomplish?"

Pein talks about using the power of the tailed beasts to "put an end to this pathetic world and its endless wars".  He then says, "It will be an Act of God."

In short, Pein is delusional.  He goes on to justify the murder of "hundreds of millions of people".

He will prosecute the most deadly war imaginable in an attempt to "eradicate war"?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: SuperSeal on November 04, 2008, 04:06:42 pm
I thought pein's objectives where to eliminate all the different ninja countries and form one big country of ninja mercenaries.
in a shorter lighter description of course.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: AkatsukiUchihaStrife on November 04, 2008, 06:48:19 pm
I dislike how everyone was really whining over what I believe to really be Kakashi's death >>
REALLY DISLIKE.

I don't even think I'll go into detail.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 04, 2008, 07:20:26 pm
Kakashi's death will be tragic, no matter when it occurs.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 04, 2008, 09:38:09 pm
Just when I started liking Kakashi again....
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on November 05, 2008, 02:30:33 am
Atom, it is a concept used in the Cold War.
The concept of mutual destruction.

If doing something bad would result in your entire country being destroyed, would you do it?
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 06:42:27 am
Atom, it is a concept used in the Cold War.
The concept of mutual destruction.

If doing something bad would result in your entire country being destroyed, would you do it?

I understand fully the Cold War concept of MAD.

But Pein is proposing the actual destruction of hundreds of millions in order to stamp out war.

It is less of the Cold War concept of MAD and more of the "loose nuke" theory.

Pein says, "I will give my ultimate weapon (the combined biju) to the warring nations - people who have such a weapon will inevitably use it."

He is delusional, not altruistic.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 06:47:14 am
Atom, it is a concept used in the Cold War.
The concept of mutual destruction.

If doing something bad would result in your entire country being destroyed, would you do it?

I understand fully the Cold War concept of MAD.

But Pein is proposing the actual destruction of hundreds of millions in order to stamp out war.

It is less of the Cold War concept of MAD and more of the "loose nuke" theory.

Pein says, "I will give my ultimate weapon (the combined biju) to the warring nations - people who have such a weapon will inevitably use it."

He is delusional, not altruistic.
Yeah, but this will still get his Goal, Peace!

and Kakashi will kill Pein using a Pain Killer ^^
(Thanks Albedo)
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 05, 2008, 07:33:41 am
Atom, it is a concept used in the Cold War.
The concept of mutual destruction.

If doing something bad would result in your entire country being destroyed, would you do it?

I understand fully the Cold War concept of MAD.

But Pein is proposing the actual destruction of hundreds of millions in order to stamp out war.

It is less of the Cold War concept of MAD and more of the "loose nuke" theory.

Pein says, "I will give my ultimate weapon (the combined biju) to the warring nations - people who have such a weapon will inevitably use it."

He is delusional, not altruistic.
Yeah, but this will still get his Goal, Peace!

and Kakashi will kill Pein using a Pain Killer ^^
(Thanks Albedo)

Alright now friend, is he really delusional- or just fulfilling his "dream"?!

We have seen to a degree what the nine-tailed fox is capable of, if the 4th Hokage didn't use a forbidden sealing technique- there possibly would not be any Konoha as we know it today.

Naruto declares he will become hokage. Is this considered a dream/delusional?! Better yet, how about with or without the power of the nine-tailed within him, still a dream/delusional?!

As far as his statements of a God, it has been explained how Pein is able to use the senses of all the bodies, such a power makes one omnipresent and/or omnificent to a degree. Along with the creation of a new forbidden jutsu, capable of wiping out a total country in mere seconds...it can easily be seen why he calls himself a "god"...
 ;)

As to PyrobOOger- you called the bible fictional?! That is quite interesting...especially since I am still waiting for some type of valid evidence that prove it is not accurate. Please feel free to PM the info...
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 01:15:02 pm

Alright now friend, is he really delusional- or just fulfilling his "dream"?!

We have seen to a degree what the nine-tailed fox is capable of, if the 4th Hokage didn't use a forbidden sealing technique- there possibly would not be any Konoha as we know it today.

Naruto declares he will become hokage. Is this considered a dream/delusional?! Better yet, how about with or without the power of the nine-tailed within him, still a dream/delusional?!

As far as his statements of a God, it has been explained how Pein is able to use the senses of all the bodies, such a power makes one omnipresent and/or omnificent to a degree. Along with the creation of a new forbidden jutsu, capable of wiping out a total country in mere seconds...it can easily be seen why he calls himself a "god"...
 ;)

I fail to see Naruto's ambition to be Hokage as a similar dream/delusion to Pein's destruction of "hundreds of millions".

Pein is not omnipresent because of six different fields of vision.  He desires to create a jutsu and lists "Power" as the motivating factor more often than "saving the world from itself".

He also is caught up with forcing them (the rest of the world) to "feel pain" in order to "grow up".


As to PyrobOOger- you called the bible fictional?! That is quite interesting...especially since I am still waiting for some type of valid evidence that prove it is not accurate. Please feel free to PM the info...

In very few situations is one required to prove a negative.

You say "x" does exist.
I say it does not, and ask for your proof.

I am not required to prove that "x" does not exist.

Just as an example.  I am not arguing your (or anyone else's religion) in this reply.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: kboogi on November 05, 2008, 02:34:49 pm
*shakes his head*

...so depending on the size and magnitude of one's dream determines if it is illusionary or not?  Well, one biju was more than enough to take out Konoha.

Also, Naurto's drive comes from wanting to be respected by his village after being shunned while growing up as a child. Pein actually witnessed the destruction of his country first hand as a child. His motivation/drive/ambition does make sense to what his goals are. In times of war, rarely everyone is affected directly. When the loss is felt higher up a social/political food chain ladder, do believe the results will lead to whatever it takes to end such a war & restore "peace".

The chakra receivers allows more than just six fields of vision. As I have stated, Pein is omnipresent to a degree- on where the bodies are located at. (Now it seems there may be a seventh slave- Kakashi!!! X_x)


Usually the accuser must prove their case. For one to call something imaginary that has been been recognized by millions as non-fiction...well, according to your statement- this can easily be one of the "very few situations"...


Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 04:06:59 pm
*shakes his head*
Shakes head?  Come on now, let us not belittle each other's position like that.

...so depending on the size and magnitude of one's dream determines if it is illusionary or not?

I am not saying that.  Not at all. 

Naruto aspires to a leadership position because he has something to prove.  There has been no indication that he would then use that position to inflict punishment on those that shunned him.

In times of war, rarely everyone is affected directly. When the loss is felt higher up a social/political food chain ladder, do believe the results will lead to whatever it takes to end such a war & restore "peace".

I am not certain I understand your point here, however, starting a war with the stated intent of killing "hundreds of millions of people" in an attempt to end war permanently is delusional - to me.  That is at the extreme end of even a Hobbesian worldview - and since I am much more of a follower of Locke & Rousseau's worldview, it is inconceivable that that position (killing so many to allegedly stop people from being killed) makes sense to anyone.

The chakra receivers allows more than just six fields of vision. As I have stated, Pein is omnipresent to a degree- on where the bodies are located at. (Now it seems there may be a seventh slave- Kakashi!!! X_x)

If Kakashi is a new slave, it would be because the one Pein used to protect him was destroyed.

Usually the accuser must prove their case. For one to call something imaginary that has been been recognized by millions as non-fiction...well, according to your statement- this can easily be one of the "very few situations"...

The majority at one point thought that the Gods ruled from Mount Olympus.
The majority at one point thought that the Earth was flat.
The majority at one point thought that the Earth was the center of the Universe and that every other celestial body revolved around it.

At one point or another, challenging any of the above was viewed as challenging something "that has been recognized by millions as non-fiction".

In other words, a dominant worldview does not equal undisputed fact.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Kisame on November 05, 2008, 07:18:24 pm
Kakashi's death will be tragic, no matter when it occurs.

yeah he's such a badass and cool character as well, and a smooth talker ^^
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on November 05, 2008, 09:36:08 pm
Usually the accuser must prove their case. For one to call something imaginary that has been been recognized by millions as non-fiction...well, according to your statement- this can easily be one of the "very few situations"...

The majority at one point thought that the Gods ruled from Mount Olympus.
The majority at one point thought that the Earth was flat.
The majority at one point thought that the Earth was the center of the Universe and that every other celestial body revolved around it.

At one point or another, challenging any of the above was viewed as challenging something "that has been recognized by millions as non-fiction".

In other words, a dominant worldview does not equal undisputed fact.
But they didn't prove that the previous thing was wrong.
They proved that something else was right.
It is a philosophical concept.
You can prove something is right.
You can't prove something is wrong without at the same time saying that something else is true.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 10:16:51 pm
You can't prove something is wrong without at the same time saying that something else is true.

I disagree. Negative proof, in nearly all circumstances, remains a logical fallacy.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 10:35:15 pm
You can't prove something is wrong without at the same time saying that something else is true.

I disagree. Negative proof, in nearly all circumstances, remains a logical fallacy.
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 11:00:34 pm
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 11:01:38 pm
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
I think someone is a grumpy bum...  ;)
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 11:05:54 pm
Nah, not grumpy - I just abhor faulty logic.   :P
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 11:06:58 pm
Nah, not grumpy - I just abhor faulty logic.   :P
Not so much faulty Logic, I agree with them, but I see where your coming from.
You just need to stop over thinking everything.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on November 05, 2008, 11:37:49 pm
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 11:43:09 pm
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.
How do we know the world truly is round? It is just how we see things, but Humans do not see the world/Universe how it truly is...
So many things are to much for our minds to handle, like a multidimentional world, ie. 5+ Dimentions
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 05, 2008, 11:47:10 pm
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 05, 2008, 11:49:35 pm
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 06, 2008, 12:26:02 am
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 06, 2008, 12:28:13 am
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen

There is proof certain events in the bible did happen, so you can't say it never happened.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: doomstar on November 06, 2008, 12:29:07 am
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen

There is proof certain events in the bible did happen, so you can't say it never happened.
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.

and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 06, 2008, 12:34:38 am
Quote
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.
Doesn't make it false either

Quote
and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
There is reference to someone that sounds a lot like Moses in Egyptian History, along with other events around that time.
Some people have claimed to found Noah's Ark, though the Government there will not let anyone in that area.
There is records of a person called Jesus.
We can all see the Church/s that have spawned from back then.
There is a Jewish people.

More but I too lazy to go any deeper, these are just basics.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: Mihamaru on November 06, 2008, 12:36:57 am
Quote
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.
Doesn't make it false either

Quote
and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
There is reference to someone that sounds a lot like Moses in Egyptian History, along with other events around that time.
Some people have claimed to found Noah's Ark, though the Government there will not let anyone in that area.
There is records of a person called Jesus.
We can all see the Church/s that have spawned from back then.
There is a Jewish people.

More but I too lazy to go any deeper, these are just basics.

The jews and muslims both say he existed, but say he wasn't the son.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 06, 2008, 12:38:17 am
Quote
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.
Doesn't make it false either

Quote
and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
There is reference to someone that sounds a lot like Moses in Egyptian History, along with other events around that time.
Some people have claimed to found Noah's Ark, though the Government there will not let anyone in that area.
There is records of a person called Jesus.
We can all see the Church/s that have spawned from back then.
There is a Jewish people.

More but I too lazy to go any deeper, these are just basics.

The jews and muslims both say he existed, but say he wasn't the son.
Yes they do say that, there is no solid proof about any religion, as if there was that would defeat its purpose.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 06, 2008, 01:10:47 am
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.

Double standard?  What double standard?  If anything, I indulged you and provided counter points to your original argument.

You made the statement that Pein's motivations were altruistic.

I said they were not.  All positive statements made by me (my counter claims) were sourced (meaning I offered proof for my stance) and accepted any and all rebuttals.

You then took the position that Pein's goal and Akatsuki's goals were different.  A position for which I asked your proof.  (Another point on this, both the position stated as the acting head of Akatsuki and the position stated to Jiraiya appear incredibly similar).

And for the record, I am not arguing whether or not the Christian Bible, in total, is false or not.  I am only concerned with the logic behind a particular statement made, in which the Bible just happened to be the subject.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 06, 2008, 01:12:41 am
Yeah, I see your point.
Lets all agree to disagree and try to get but on topic.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: PyroPrinny on November 06, 2008, 02:47:17 am
Sakurai: *laughs*

But, nonetheless Kakashi didn't die from the nail. Choji's dad did. Kakashi's probably going to die from chakra strain due to using his MS to get rid of Demon Realm Pain's missile that was launched at Choji.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 06, 2008, 03:17:12 am
in relation to peins strategy to end war there is a graphic novel that is somewhat similiar to that. its called the watchmen.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: atomkai on November 06, 2008, 03:35:52 am
in relation to peins strategy to end war there is a graphic novel that is somewhat similiar to that. its called the watchmen.

Yep, I've read it and am somewhat interested in the movie adaptation of it.
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: IceSlayer on November 06, 2008, 06:46:03 am
in relation to peins strategy to end war there is a graphic novel that is somewhat similiar to that. its called the watchmen.

Yep, I've read it and am somewhat interested in the movie adaptation of it.
And I'm working on the real life version ;)
Title: Re: Naruto 423
Post by: thecrazyanbu on November 08, 2008, 12:53:07 am
in relation to peins strategy to end war there is a graphic novel that is somewhat similiar to that. its called the watchmen.

Yep, I've read it and am somewhat interested in the movie adaptation of it.

the movie looks awsome and i cant wait to see Rorscharch kill some people. :D