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[Bocchiere]

So Kamui's enlightening topic made me realize the set of rules on the forum seem contradictory.

ºShould the Biju be Host-lessº
Should the Biju be sealed within something not a Jinchuriki, whomsoever is in possession of the tailed beast (for a prolonged period of one week or more) is entitled to assume duties of fighting for possession of the Biju. As such: Biju are not to be set free to roam; they must be sealed and delivered to the kage of their last Jinchuriki.

ºTime Limitationsº
Tailed beasts must be sealed within a jinchuriki within a week of capture.

Am I reading something wrong or is that contradictory? What is the rule in regard to bijuu used as summons to be?

[Bocchiere]

I don't understand the obsession with restricting offensive actions but that is just me, I'm half surprised you're allowed to make attacks when you have Shadow Clones out the way this community makes rules. Who likes combination jutsu? Apparently only me!

Anyway, I think it should be more specific and say you can control the beast with Sharingan Genjutsu or the Rinnegan like Obito did and that is all. Not any old bloke can control a bijuu with a simple Genjutsu or they'd be no threat.

[Eric]

I don't understand the obsession with restricting offensive actions but that is just me, I'm half surprised you're allowed to make attacks when you have Shadow Clones out the way this community makes rules. Who likes combination jutsu? Apparently only me!

Anyway, I think it should be more specific and say you can control the beast with Sharingan Genjutsu or the Rinnegan like Obito did and that is all. Not any old bloke can control a bijuu with a simple Genjutsu or they'd be no threat.

I would rather just state a powerful genjutsu. Limiting it to just sharingan and Rinnegan seems like a class limiter as to who can have the tailed beast as a summon.

And regarding that, I like combination attacks too (I do them with my summon all the time) but limitations tend to be put on things of that sort because the partner is a tailed beast or Edo zombie. Shadow clones can be rather easily dispelled in comparison. Really, you can still do defensive combination techniques.

I think everyone lost interest in the rules update before we got to deal with the summons issue. Last time I spot checked myself I was against doing the summons thing. *shrugs* But then I don't host...But Trev was wondering how this would be handled as you can see back here on September 7th.

I haven't been reading too carefully, so forgive me if this has been addressed, but are we throwing out the tailed beast as summons concept? I know most players don't take that route, but it was an option.

But it looks like the discussion went on concerning what to do about challenges for a summons.

This is from the set of rules concerning RP fights. But it was never fully approved.

◾ (Pending Approval) Or, a tailed beast may be treated as a summon of the user. However, control of the beast must be maintained via genjutsu, and the user is only capable of defensive moves while the beast is active. In order to lose possession of the tailed beast, the user must have their contract nullified, control lost of the tailed beast, and/or have the beast sealed by someone else.

I had been under the impression that using the tailed beasts as summons was not an option under the jinch challenge rules. The rules, in that light, are not at all contradictory unless you refer to the contradiction between "Must be in jinchurikii" and "If not sealed within a jinch", which could be interpreted as giving leeway on the "must" in case there is a challenge list that needs fulfillment.

I suppose looking at it now, the rules are a little confusing in that regard, but I don't see any implication that using the beasts as summons was still permitted by the die-down of the discussion.

[Bocchiere]

I don't see why you couldn't use it as a summon if we are back to old bijuu challenges.  Though yes it is supposed to be a limiter that is how that works.

You get challenged for the beast that is your summon and then you defend it, what is the confusion?

[Kage]

I think the confusion here comes from people reading it like this.

ºShould the Biju be Host-lessº
Should the Biju be sealed within something not a Jinchuriki, whomsoever is in possession of the tailed beast (for a prolonged period of one week or more) is entitled to assume duties of fighting for possession of the Biju. As such: Biju are not to be set free to roam; they must be sealed and delivered to the kage of their last Jinchuriki.

AND

ºTime Limitationsº
Tailed beasts must be sealed within a jinchuriki within a week of capture.

When it's really.

ºShould the Biju be Host-lessº
Should the Biju be sealed within something not a Jinchuriki, whomsoever is in possession of the tailed beast (for a prolonged period of one week or more) is entitled to assume duties of fighting for possession of the Biju. As such: Biju are not to be set free to roam; they must be sealed and delivered to the kage of their last Jinchuriki.

OR

ºTime Limitationsº
Tailed beasts must be sealed within a jinchuriki within a week of capture.

And for the rules to make more sense, these two rules should be ordered like so.

ºTime Limitationsº
Tailed beasts must be sealed within a jinchuriki within a week of capture.

OR

ºShould the Biju be Host-lessº
Should the Biju be sealed within something not a Jinchuriki, whomsoever is in possession of the tailed beast (for a prolonged period of one week or more) is entitled to assume duties of fighting for possession of the Biju. As such: Biju are not to be set free to roam; they must be sealed and delivered to the kage of their last Jinchuriki.

Really, there has to be an extra line that states that the possessors have a week to decide between sealing the Biju into someone and making them a Jinchuriki, or imprisoning them and using genjutsu to control them as a summon. And when I say imprison, I mean creating a cage/barrier for it and placing seals on the cage/barrier to ensure that it has the means to be called forth, since last I checked Biju cannot be summoned if they are sealed in something. (See, Madara attempting to summon Kurama while being sealed in Naruto)
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-561-page-11.html

[Eric]

...And when I say imprison, I mean creating a cage/barrier for it and placing seals on the cage/barrier to ensure that it has the means to be called forth, since last I checked Biju cannot be summoned if they are sealed in something. (See, Madara attempting to summon Kurama while being sealed in Naruto)
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-561-page-11.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/659/6

Now, I am sure the Gedo Mazou totally doesn't count here, but it clearly was still sealed inside of Obito until Madara summoned it. While not completely retconned, the idea that you can't summon something sealed inside of someone else is not something has not been done before in the series.

[Camel]

...And when I say imprison, I mean creating a cage/barrier for it and placing seals on the cage/barrier to ensure that it has the means to be called forth, since last I checked Biju cannot be summoned if they are sealed in something. (See, Madara attempting to summon Kurama while being sealed in Naruto)
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-561-page-11.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/659/6

Now, I am sure the Gedo Mazou totally doesn't count here, but it clearly was still sealed inside of Obito until Madara summoned it. While not completely retconned, the idea that you can't summon something sealed inside of someone else is not something has not been done before in the series.

Not really a retcon per se.

The Gedo Mazo is but an empty husk of what would be the Juubi; it's nothing more then a container and a considerable tool that can extend your life force.
So it would make sense to be able to summon it from it's former jinchuuriki; once certain conditions are met.

Which in this case was that Madara needed to be brought back to life in order to regain his contract over the Mazo and summon it again.
The only thing that Kishimoto retconned here is why can Edo Tensei use summons that would otherwise need blood contracts, whilst the Gedo Mazo requires that a user be alive and kicking?

[Eric]

...And when I say imprison, I mean creating a cage/barrier for it and placing seals on the cage/barrier to ensure that it has the means to be called forth, since last I checked Biju cannot be summoned if they are sealed in something. (See, Madara attempting to summon Kurama while being sealed in Naruto)
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-561-page-11.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/659/6

Now, I am sure the Gedo Mazou totally doesn't count here, but it clearly was still sealed inside of Obito until Madara summoned it. While not completely retconned, the idea that you can't summon something sealed inside of someone else is not something has not been done before in the series.

Not really a retcon per se.

The Gedo Mazo is but an empty husk of what would be the Juubi; it's nothing more then a container and a considerable tool that can extend your life force.
So it would make sense to be able to summon it from it's former jinchuuriki; once certain conditions are met.

Which in this case was that Madara needed to be brought back to life in order to regain his contract over the Mazo and summon it again.
The only thing that Kishimoto retconned here is why can Edo Tensei use summons that would otherwise need blood contracts, whilst the Gedo Mazo requires that a user be alive and kicking?

Summoning a tool from a sealed container without breaking the seal is still rather considerable all things considered.

Edo's typically are not brought to the full power of these shinobilegends, so him being limited in summoning  could make sense in that light. When he was revived, then he had full power again. Of course, just a chapter or two before Madara used susano'o despite not having his sharingan, so at that point, Madara was just an "anything goes" kind of character.

[Bocchiere]

I thought it was because there was no Fuinjutsu on Obito that Madara could summon the Mazo out of him. I mean he just kinda absorbed the 10 tails.

[Eric]

I thought it was because there was no Fuinjutsu on Obito that Madara could summon the Mazo out of him. I mean he just kinda absorbed the 10 tails.

Sounds like a stretch, but with the way things have been in the series, I would not be surprised.

[Bocchiere]

I thought it was because there was no Fuinjutsu on Obito that Madara could summon the Mazo out of him. I mean he just kinda absorbed the 10 tails.

Sounds like a stretch, but with the way things have been in the series, I would not be surprised.

Well I mean he tried to do the exact same thing to Naruto and it did not work for summoning the 9 tails, so that is what my logic tells me.

[Eric]

I thought it was because there was no Fuinjutsu on Obito that Madara could summon the Mazo out of him. I mean he just kinda absorbed the 10 tails.

Sounds like a stretch, but with the way things have been in the series, I would not be surprised.

Well I mean he tried to do the exact same thing to Naruto and it did not work for summoning the 9 tails, so that is what my logic tells me.

The nine-tails was also split in half; I am thinking that he would have needed both halves freed before summoning it. Either that or, of course, like the hirashin handsign brevity, it happened just becuz.

[Kage]

From what I could tell, Kishi doesn't really care anymore. It's to the point that his author commentary is wildly off-topic and random stuff. But then again, so is Kubo's.

[Bocchiere]

Speaking of which we are doing the same thing.

So far it doesn't seem like anyone is against the bijuu being used as summons in this system, the only point of contention is that I think it should be strictly via Sharingan and Rinnegan and Eric things it should be more open then that.

[Bocchiere]

Ok, another thing though, what of the Jinchuriki that have not, or have chosen not, to take note of this?

I haven't talked to Isa and was ignored by Dart when I asked him which set of rules he was following.

Do we just let them stick to the rules on the wiki instead of using these? I suppose that isnt really an issue if that's what they want to do.