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[Bocchiere]

There is the normal Izanagi, which lasts an instant, and the Izanagi enhanced by Senju cells that Danzo uses where each eye gives him 60 seconds of invincibility. You can die multiple times during that 60 seconds, the eye does not close immediately. I did state to use a Senju enhanced one.

Like I said before, I could just pull a tactic out of your book and say...

But you didn't. If you had posted that of course my Izanagi would be over by the time you did your Curse then there would be no argument. But you didn't.

Why is the current standing that I am guilty until proven innocent? We've agreed that it working is viable, and Rusaku did not post anything to the contrary. So why is he allowed to character control me because we kinda don't like the argument about time?

Remove Izanagi from the argument for a minute and pretend it is something else. Fighters A and B are having an argument and go to a judge. A is arguing that something B is doing is not possible, while B is of course arguing the opposite. However, for some reason, it is B's post. Since it is something that cannot definitively be proven one way or the other, but is agreed to at least be possible the judge decides...

#1: That B can perform his action. It is his post and nothing has been posted previously that makes his action impossible. Thus he would not be in the wrong to post what he wants.

or

#2: Because the answer of whether it can work could swing either way obviously A gets to character control B's next post and he cannot post the action he wants.

How is number two the correct choice? It could go either way so obviously me getting character controlled is the default solution? No, it isn't, that's ridiculous.

If you guys don't like the idea of Senju enhanced Izanagi actually being used to last 60 seconds IC then make a topic about making rules for it. I don't see the need for it because I don't care if someone uses Izanagi on me.

I stated to use an Izanagi that would last 60 seconds, no one made a post that it had been more than 60 seconds, it has been agreed that my Izanagi being active is possible, and there are no concrete Izanagi rules that I am contradicting. Literally everything is in my favor here and it's being ignored because "Well we don't like arguing about the passage of time." Ok good, don't, we've already agreed that I am correct. Not a single person has argued that it is not even remotely possible that my Izanagi is still active, so why am I then being character controlled into that situation which no one has claimed is legitimate? That is quite literally the opposite of what makes sense.

@Dark

many of your fights have won technicalities due to things not being stated -- such as with that Genjutsu against Trev. I believe that's the argument Alek's trying to give: if it was that way for you before, why should it not be now?

Yeah except he did not post taking advantage of something not being stated. You're agreeing that he should be able to gain an advantage granted by performing an action without actually performing that action. As I already said, if he had posted about my Izanagi being done then he'd be right, but he did not. I did not argue that Trev had not used a Genjutsu on me, I argued against extra effects that were in no way implied by his post and I believed to be unfair to impose upon me.

If the consensus was that yes it is clearly impossible that my Izanagi could still be active then this decision would make sense. But again, the consensus is the exact opposite of that.

I did state to use the 60 second version of Izanagi, at no point have I stated that the jutsu has ceased, it has been agreed that yes, it is possible for my Izanagi to still be active in this situation yet the decision is, "Ok you want to use Izanagi, it is possible that you could still be doing it, and we can't prove that you aren't sooooooooo yeah you can't use it." That is not a legitimate decision people.

There are no SL rules for Izanagi but clearly there need to be as my impression that people could handle me actually rping being under it's effects for 60 seconds IC was just expecting way too much.

"You could definitely be right, and we cannot prove that you are wrong, so you're wrong."

My vote for decision of the year, 2014. ^

[Trev]

Like I said, you could for all in tense of purposes be right. However, I'm saying that as there is no possible way to tell. Neither of you gave timing in your post. It will literally be impossible for someone to say who is right if we use time.

I'm saying Izanagi is not viable, because you didn't post how long it would last or how much time has passed. You expect Eikan to say that you don't have it up any longer, now that is character control. Why on Earth would he post that? There is nothing in your post that implies Izanagi is still up, and even if there was there is no time indication in your post. Just dialogues and actions. If you really planned on utilizing Izangi to trick Hazama, you should know that you'd have to leave heavy hints, like genjutsu, else the post will be invalid.

Unless you're hints are really good and I missed them, but I guess we should wait for more opinions, before deciding anything.

[Bocchiere]

I posted it was a Senju enhanced Izanagi and that lasts 60 seconds. That is one if two possible options. One instant, or 60 seconds.

I wouldn't have had to do anything more than I did if Eikan had not battering-rammed himself into my rp with no warning. Hazama and I are good friends and I know he would have been fine with the attempted Izanagi.

I should not have to suffer because someone else is being rude. If Alek had told me what he was going to do I could have made him wait a turn for me to post so I could provide all of the relevant details before he made his post. Hopefully one that didn't involve him killing someone upon his entrance to the rp, why do you think I posted watching the fight between Haz and Kamui before jumping in to kill him? Because you aren't supposed to take any action upon other participants upon entering an rp.

I stated the use of a Senju enhanced Izanagi and then never stated it ceased and moved immediately into combat. It cannot be proved one way or another who is right or wrong but it has been admitted that it could go either way. So there are no grounds on which to character control me into being unable to use my Izanagi.

Izanagi is SUPPOSED to be hidden. There is no real way to detect when it is being used. Stating that it was activated and then just not mentioning it at all over the next posts should have been more than enough to suggest something was going on. 

I'm sure I'm at fault for that too though, I forgot to write down somewhere that all training wheels are to be removed before entering rp with me, my mistake.

[Rusaku]

So, I am gonna work off something trev said earlier, then we can get to the Izanagi situation. We should wait until bocc posts a 'defense' against this attack, because if we prove something wrong now, such as the Izanagi or the Flame hozuki, he could just say "Ok well instead of that I will use this then. Seeing as I have not posted yet." And now we have yet another argument on our hands.

We need to wait and then analyze his defensive post.

[Sabumaru]

So, I am gonna work off something trev said earlier, then we can get to the Izanagi situation. We should wait until bocc posts a 'defense' against this attack, because if we prove something wrong now, such as the Izanagi or the Flame hozuki, he could just say "Ok well instead of that I will use this then. Seeing as I have not posted yet." And now we have yet another argument on our hands.

We need to wait and then analyze his defensive post.

In the future, I would highly recommend actually talking RP like this out with whoever it is you're RPing with before you jump in and do a bunch of things all in one post. It's really poor form and it's half the reason issues like this happen. And really this should be more contained, and not such an insanely messy problem.

This is not to far from the old blood problem Bocchy and Kamui had. There was no evidence that Hidan could or could not use Jashin symbols on the ground more than once (though I think his stepping back into it was evidence enough that he could). In this case, there's no way to state if Bocc's Izanagi is still up or not because we didn't see this coming (see: first half of my post and some of Bocchy's earlier words).


I think that on those grounds, y'all should have to try again. Go from before Eikan's post, and then WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT EIKAN WILL BE ENTERING THE RP, he can make a post that will specifically cover anything Eikan might have missed.
Bocchy won't metagame because if he does we're all watching like craphawks at an amusement park food court and there will be an uproarious crapstorm, which we went through already.

Or...

Bocchy's use of Izanagi is accepted (because he's right) and he takes no damage and this was a massive waste of time, energy and emotions, as usual.
Danzō's repeated use of Izanagi to catch Sasuke by surprise is more than enough proof that Bocchiere is alright, and okay to use Izanagi as he did.. And I will math out all the time spent to prove that he's still within his minute if need be.

[Bocchiere]

It's not my post, it's Hazama's turn, we've been waiting for all this garbage to be resolved before continuing our rp.

If that's what you want to do then fine they can post and then I'll respond, I'll let it be known my Izanagi ended last post and that I activate a second, fresh Izanagi, to bluff Hazama as I planned to, since the community is under agreement that I should be character controlled into not being able to use the first for no reason. It'll be activated around the time you're drawing your blood circle. Since I planned to kill Hazama I could just take his eyes and replace the two I used, so why not use the second Izanagi?

So can we close these incredibly stupid topics now that I've said I'm going to negate the damage regardless?

Or is there perhaps some bright soul who wants to argue that Curse Blood does Super Damage and Izanagi only negates regular damage? There is nothing that could be said that would surprise me at this point. Perhaps the damage to my chakra system trumps temporary control of reality. No wait, the Curse Blood jutsu actually goes back in time and kills your father before he can conceive you and thus you cease to exist, which would trump Izanagi. This is proved by the fact that the word "the" is used 21 times on the wiki page for Curse Blood Jutsu, and I'm 21 years old.

Also there are three words in the phrase Curse Blood Jutsu, Half Life 3 confirmed.

[Sabumaru]

Also there are three words in the phrase Curse Blood Jutsu, Half Life 3 confirmed.

!!!!!

[Bocchiere]

Also there are three words in the phrase Curse Blood Jutsu, Half Life 3 confirmed.

!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P5qbcRAXVk

[Rusaku]

Tl;dr
From a judge's perspective, I'd say no to Izangi, and incineration technique. The attack would hit you and severely wound, if not kill you. However, I would question the legitimacy of the blood.

You used Izanagi? That is a self jutsu that turns reality into illusion and illusion into reality. Meaning that your incineration technique (as well as damage taken) would be an illusion. So if izanagi may be active for more than one turn, then from what I know of this topic, you are just a big troll for using incineration technique in the first place considering that it won't actually affect your body.

If Izanagi can only be active for a single turn, and you started the activation in  a previous turn, then the damage is based off of the incineration technique.

Izanagi's usage over turns is more SL time sensible than trying to get a stopwatch and all.

I personally believe that Izanagi shouldn't last longer than one post, and many of your fights have won technicalities due to things not being stated -- such as with that Genjutsu against Trev. I believe that's the argument Alek's trying to give: if it was that way for you before, why should it not be now?
Regardless of whether or not Izanagi needs be stated, my opinion is that it shouldn't be active for longer than one turn; it's the most powerful genjutsu in the world, period.

To that end,  I vote that the damage be inferred based on Bocchiere's incineration technique, not on Izanagi itself.

From a judge's standpoint, I feel that using the same Izanagi twice in succession to avoid the harsh realities of death is god-mod, considering you can only use it once per injury/death; the eye that it was cast from becomes useless and blind, after you change the reality to benefit your situation.

Bocchiere in his version of his RP, used Izanagi to get out of the harsh death of molecular deconstruction that was reflected upon Kamui.
Now because of this current scenario that was accepted by Bocchiere, this would actually count as one use of Izanagi but this doesn't mean that Izanagi can't be casted again; you would just need to sacrifice one of your remaining eyes in order to avoid the damage counter and somehow form the handseals within the allotted time-frame.

Three people who are the most popularly used judges in all of zone fighting RP, and Eric who has a pretty firm grasp on common sense from what I have gathered, all think your Izanagi would either be over, or invalid for repeated use. I will be taking their word on it over basically everyone else. 

[Eric]

(7d13h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere would reform from the aether, the effect of Izanagi negating all the damage from the Dust Release blast.

"Jinton: Genkai Hakuri no Jutsu." Saejima then extends one hand and pushes the cube -
(9d) <暁> Taiga Saejima forward, towards Bocchiere. The cube would expand until it was large enough to completely surround the Akatsuki leader's body, which it would do. A bright flash of light would follow, the sphere inside the cube detonating, which -
(9d) <暁> Taiga Saejima Bocchiere was allowing to pulverize his entire body. Bocchiere's body would be disintegrated on the molecular level, breaking it down into constituent elements. Due to the Curse Blood Jutsu affecting the Jashinist's body at the time of -
(9d) <暁> Taiga Saejima - detonation means that the same damage would be reflected on Kamui.

(9d) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - at the crystal ball and saw the two heretics still babbling before tossing it off the platform and activating a Senju enhanced Izanagi via one of the Sharingan eyes in his back. He turns to Saejima, "Do it."

(5d12h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere 's eyes would spiral into their Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan form. He had no intention of bantering with Hazama. Upon seeing Hazama withdraw a kunai the Akatsuki leader would immediately utilize a Kamui to snap off Hazama's hand and the kunai he -
(5d12h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - was holding within in it, before he could drop it. Wasting no further time Bocchiere would dash forward toward the man, his speed along with everything else enhanced by his Nine Tails cloak. With a flurry of slashing motions he would send a -
(5d11h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - barrage of bone bullets out of his finger tips. They would instantly coat themselves with black Hoton chakra as they flew at Hazama and aimed to surround him with a storm of digital shrapnel. The crystal spikes, assuming that Takeo would aim -
(5d11h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - toward the moving Bocchiere, as he would have dashed toward Hazama before Takeo had planned to make them originally, would pass through his body harmlessly. When he saw them erupt in front of him he did not slow his pace and merely used his -
(5d11h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - Shokyaku no jutsu to convert his body to fire where ever the crystals threatened to stab him, moving out of their radius at high speed before they could enclose and trap him. He did notice that their chakra was not Hazama's which meant, -
(5d11h) <暁> 真 Bocchiere - as usual, interlopers.

Alright, although it may not be sufficient, we start with Bocc's reason for using Izanagi; to survive being hit with Dust Release. However, Bocc's actual body is not in any way damaged thanks to izanagi (so for my record, it would seem he also failed to kill Kamui with the intent of reducing his body to nothingness. As stated before, Izanagi turns reality into illusion, changing destiny so's to speak, so it was as if Bocc was never struck from the get-go. That is beyond the point of this thread though).

Now then, Bocc decides that he wants to proceed forward and deal with the former jashinist that betrayed him. He swiftly goes at him, presumably using izanagi for that first set of risen crystal spikes, and then decides to turn fiery for the second set, perhaps (in theory) as a feint of sorts towardss Hazama, though this is not really explictly stated.

Contrary to popular belief, Izanagi's time limit is far from defined: Tobi boasted the "full" Izanagi, and use it to survive Konan's ten minute attack. Tobi either used it for the entire 10 minutes, or used it after he used his intangibility for 5 minutes, meaning that with full mastery (and perhaps senjutsu enhancement) the technique has the potential to last for more than 1 minute.


So, it is in fact very likely that Bocchiere has enough time on Izanagi to dodge for some time more. The only problem is that he did not explictly state that it was still active, and considering the varied time in which it can be active, this is actually a tad important. Based on the "it was posted or it didn't happen" theory, then Bocc's Izanagi would be almost certainly over by the time of his last post.

Since even 5 minutes in SL time can be an extremely large number of posts in a fast-paced fight and how much time he intended on using is not specified either (though implied to be only to survive the dust release, unless you interpret the crystals going through him as proof that he had izanagi up even then, which would render a feint maneuver with fire rather pointless against someone with the sharingan, which could keep track of such a thing) as has been earlier stated almost to deafness, it would be hard to prove that Bocc simply ran out of time.

...Or is there perhaps some bright soul who wants to argue that Curse Blood does Super Damage and Izanagi only negates regular damage...

To kill Kamui as you attempted to do, is that not what you are implying?  Izanagi causes the dust release attack to not affect your body period, meaning Kamui, though linked, would also not be affected. If he is affected, then what you state above is apparently (and I sarcastically state this) the case.


Since there is no set rules on how Izanagi is correlated into turns, then we have to go by what is posted. And frankly, unless you had a reason to fear Hazama using Izanami on you (which would have deconstructed you and killed Kamui, and would have SOOO prevented this entire discussion in the first place) there would be no point in trying to fake him out that you were using Izanagi.

Tl;dr: The time for Izanagi to be active is too variable. What was posted has to be what is considered, and frankly, the only way Izanagi can be considered still active in Bocc's post is if you take the crystals phasing through him as evidence that Izanagi was still active.

[Bocchiere]

My next post will be activating a second Izanagi before being cursed. Topic concluded. Pls lock.

How is Sabu the only one who can grasp the idea that if I could be right and no one can prove I'm wrong and since nothing has been stated to contradict what I am claiming then I'd be right and able to use my Izanagi. It's literally that simple.

That's ok, I guess can't expect everyone to have a grasp of basic zone fighting.

I will wait for Hazama and Takeo to make a post and then respond. All damage will be negated through a second Izanagi, and if Alek wants to commit suicide again I currently have no challengers for either of my bijuu.

[Ѕhadow]

My two cents about this:

http://goo.gl/1LKUtJ

[Eric]

How is Sabu the only one who can grasp the idea that if I could be right and no one can prove I'm wrong and since nothing has been stated to contradict what I am claiming then I'd be right and able to use my Izanagi. It's literally that simple...

You are proven wrong via the "if you didn't post it, then it didn't happen" principle. I explained that while by that theory you could still have Izanagi up in your last post (to dodge the first attack) I also pointed out that you clearly stated the the incineration technique would be used to dodge the second attack, not Izanagi. As I have also already stated, if Izanagi is not in effect when the technique would strike, then the Incineration technique would calculate the damage that you take. It would be too late to activate another Izanagi, especially if you are not given a reason to do so.

[Trev]

How are Eric, Eikan, Dark, and Kamui the only people that can grasps the idea that it was your responsibility to post how long Izanagi would last and the time that passed by between posts. You never said, but worse it's not even implied anywhere via hints. So why would Eikan post about it. You could be right in the sense that no one can actually quantify time in the posts given, making it unknown. You are wrong in the sense you're trying to use something you did like three posts ago to avoid death now, without even hinting at it and expect everyone to be swayed to your side.

I'm sorry you can't grasps what we're saying. And this may seem rude, especially coming from me. But for the love of god, stop with your little psudeo insults and sarcasm about how all of us don't know how to zone or basic logic. You're the one with majority against you, and screaming I'm right and everyone else is wrong. It just makes you look very silly.

Sorry if this offends you or seems rude, I'm just sick of the small insults, and I'm basically asking you to stop. You can disagree with us without being so abrasive.

On topic: Go for second Izanagi, depending on how you post it, may or may not be acceptable. 

[Bocchiere]

How is Sabu the only one who can grasp the idea that if I could be right and no one can prove I'm wrong and since nothing has been stated to contradict what I am claiming then I'd be right and able to use my Izanagi. It's literally that simple...

You are proven wrong via the "if you didn't post it, then it didn't happen" principle. I explained that while by that theory you could still have Izanagi up in your last post (to dodge the first attack) I also pointed out that you clearly stated the the incineration technique would be used to dodge the second attack, not Izanagi. As I have also already stated, if Izanagi is not in effect when the technique would strike, then the Incineration technique would calculate the damage that you take. It would be too late to activate another Izanagi, especially if you are not given a reason to do so.

How does me dodging something with my Incineration Technique prove Izanagi isn't active? That's baseless character control.

I did not post that the Izanagi ceased, there for that did not happen.

Maybe I'm just not a complete moron like Danzo who activated Izanagi and then decided to go, "Yeah I'm just going to let EVERY ATTACK hit me full force now. It is in no way beneficial to continue to dodge attacks, including shuriken being throw straight at me, when every time I die and respawn it bounces me away from Sasuke, forcing me to charge straight at him again and get hit with yet another attack." 

I already stated what my reason for using Izanagi was, to bluff Hazama, however that was before people battering-rammed into my rp and decided they get to character control me. So instead of using the Izanagi that is still active because I never said it ceased I would simply activate another Izanagi and charge in.

@Trev: Yeah somehow I fail to see myself at fault for not preparing my posts for the off chance that someone might god mod into my rp and attempt to insta-kill me on their entrance post.