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[KayentaMoenkopi]

Taken from Rares locked Non-shinobi thread in the discussions area. And since this is a discussion about things RP and not game mechanics, I have placed it here.

Then you fail to see my view on a disturbing level. I'm not against custom techniques and what not as long as they don't cross the creativity/god modish thin line. When I brought up Zenaku, I meant his golems.
I see you to be ill intended in bringing this up to begin with and you are the last person I want to be discussing my "legitimacy with", or any topic for that matter, but just so that people don't get the idea I was left speechless:

Meh, Kabuto just stated he shed the skin of a snake and turned in to a dragon. I didn't even get why he opted for that choice of words. It mostly went to point out that unlike the regular sage mode, in which mutation is an imperfection, Kabuto's version is indeed a perfected form or even the improved version of such. Going with the "cooler" naming rather than sage mode lvl 2 or something like that.

It's not like my upgrade enables me to use natural energy, sage chakra, and/or senjutsu, which are pretty much the relevant things about sage mode in my view.

Or were you ACTUALLY suggesting that the snake summoner would have the right to dragons? If by chance it was what you meant... if it were meant as such, Manda and Manda 2 wouldn't be the strongest snake summons. As you said, dragons do not exist in Naruto, which makes that extension even more far fetched. Needless to say, that no matter how similar two species, we never seen the summoning extend to more than one. If Kakashi's sage mode would be him turning in to a werewolf of sorts we wouldn't go saying the dog summoning scroll extends to wolves, not does the cat summoning scroll extend to lions and tigers.

Over and out. This has gone off topic. I asked to refrain from arguments to begin with, yet you went and attacked my summons, when I already pointed at custom summons and techs being only reasonable and done by most top zoners.

I'm locking this in order to avoid yet another huge conflict.

Well for starter Rares, I am not attacking or trying to pick a fight with you. I am discussing an alternate point of view on a subject that you opened for discussion. I didn't realize that once the discussing fell out of agreement with your point of view that I would be seen as attacking you and it would need to be immediately locked to keep thing from escalating. I didn't realize we were fighting. I thought we were having a discussion. Sorry.

You make to Nayeli's legitimacy yet apparently it is hands off if I voice questions about your own. You may see this as a personal attack, but it is not. You are just the only person that I have seen claim this so far and I wanted to point out the inconsistencies of your argument and the discrimination it commits. I brought it up because I thought it was a good way to show how something not shown in the manga but used by you is apparently fine but something not explicitly shown in the manga is wrong for me and others to employ...that is is a double standard.

I for one believe there ARE dragons in Naruto and demons too. Because of the hints, the naming of things as demon or dragon related and the basis of Naruto upon Japanese Lore. I am not opposed to having a penguin summon which is not shown in the manga. Penguins exist in the world and why can't someone claim that as their personal summons? I actually applaud originality, if you will recall.

Anyway, my remarks concerning canon characters and jutsu was about the views held in the older days of SL when I arrived. At that time people were laughed at for being unoriginal. It had nothing to do with not using the jutsu properly or making outlandish claims. It was all creativity based. Or anti-plagiarism, if you will. Those who were distinguished in the zones crafted their own jutsu and claimed their own type of summons and were far from immortal.

I disagree with your posted view here as well:

We have a whole bunch of custom techniques, summons and the alike that do not exist in Naruto, the thing would  that we do have what to relate them to such as other summons and other technique, whereas for demons, we just have the bijuu which in my view should clearly stay just that.

 I believe that Naruto has many examples of demons in them, animal summons, Tayuya's demon summon, and other instances. But it is not the presence or absence of demons in Naruto that I feel is the issue here.

You state time and time again that most non-shinobi fail to RP properly. That they have moddish powers and abuse them. Well you don't have to pin point non-shinobi to find that as though canon characters are somehow exempt from godmodding. I think you make an issue of those who are not shinobi when the real issue is just plain old god modding. It is wrong to target a whole segment of people based on the bad behavior of some of their number. Site the behavior and not the race. Racism is wrong in all its forms. Even make believe.

But I Think this is an interesting topic and wish to discuss it further with very many people. I don't know why you are feeling that this is some personal attack on you just because I have used you as the example in question. You did the same thing when you used Kaizer and Nayeli for your example and I didn't feel attacked this time. We are notable demons and very recognized. Of course we are the example you used.

Cmage and I were discussing the snake scroll path to dragon sage route just the other day. It brings up many interesting points and I think it is worth continuing the topic so that we can ALL talk about it. I have often wondered about the relationships between a ninja and his summons and if they all might lead to sage mode in the upper levels of experience.

Anyway since we were talking about dragons and you mention Zenaku of course I was referring to the dragons and not the golems.

I think that since Kabuto was talking to the head snake with regards to snake summons, that his transformation is very much tied to the snake summoning ability and thus the scroll. Why the writer called that dragon sage mode? Well I can hardly understand. But I can't just say...oh well it has no baring on anything cause snakes to dragons is stupid and so throw that little canon bit of information away. Either we agree right now that if it is canon it exists in its entirety or stop trying to make all things canon only because you can't have a thing that is canon and ignore parts of it. It is all or nothing with canon things.

I think that it needs to be clarified. I know my sister and I are greatly concerned over letting anyone sign the snake scroll since Kabuto's little sage mode transformation occurred. The last thing we want is people running around claiming that as a canon ability. And so we haven't allowed anyone new to sign the snake scroll. That will only stop those who respect such claims. Anyone else who just will claim what they want will continue to do so regardless of singing the scroll or no.

[Uchiha, Rares]

I locked it to avoid conflict and yet you go an remake it. Oh well. Personally, I wouldn't hold it against any summoner claiming a similar transmutation to Kabuto's regardless of the scroll he holds as long as they do have the in game reset for such, are they to be reptiles, they would most likely resemble Kabuto's more. I see this no different than the sage mode extending to other species than toads at a time at which such was not canonized. Some agreed some disagreed. Just like how some disagreed to sage mode not being toad only. Some may disagree with Kabuto's thing being strictly snakes related. Perhaps any reptile sage mode at the very least could reach that stage.

Again, I point out that a summoning scroll limits to one species alone. Period. <- My view, anyway.

As for DNA alterations/fusions, they are shown to be more than possible. Naturally, results may wary. And of course, it would be roughly similar to Kabuto's thing, depending on extents, given he turns in to a were-snake of sorts.


I simply wish to refrain from interacting with you as much as possible, mainly to avoid outbursts from either side and scandals. But oh well, since you want to make this a serious topic, I consent to such.

As for the demons, as I stated in hobby's thread, it's not a matter of existing or not, it's simply a matter of people thinking characters shouldn't be such. You do extend the demon thing by too much in my view, an alternate universe well swarms of demons exist, a demon king, portals to spawn demon armies, etc.
Alas, I don't see us ever reaching a consensus on this, pretty much the same as all of the extremists of these two parties.
I don't think you wouldn't at least dislike someone getting a customized jinchuriki level status of sorts by just putting "has demon X inside of him" in their bios.

On a side note, given the circumstance that you do know me, comparing something I do with supposed demon characters, is as big on an insult as one can get. I perceive what you do as attacks due to that. You simply hide them nicely.

It's not like I'm claiming to have access to natural energy, sage chakra, and sage jutsu, which is the real deal of sage mode in my view.

Furthermore, in regards to your complaints to my dragon like Orochimaru'ness, I could have as well claimed that to be snakes to a certain level while respecting the holder and signers rule. It's not like you need to be able to summon them to experiment on snakes and what not. It's a mere assumption(one I support) that one has a certain affinity and compatibility to the certain species by being a summoner, but that's as far as it goes.



I don't even see an issue here, and as such, I perceive all this as a mere waste of my time.
(sorry for the chaotic topic order)

[Uchiha, Rares]

It's such specifically because it's you, I said this before, I want to try to avoid discussing things with you simply because I dislike you(to put it nicely) due to recent events and what not. I will come out and say it, it's like this because you are the one that brought it up, in spite of me openly stating that I wish to avoid interacting with you to avoid conflict, think of it as an attempt to protect you and well, myself from me behaving in an improper manner, but you stop me from doing so by opening a discussion that is fairly well related to me. If this option had an option to hide your posts from me, I would certainly use it.

To sum up all the above for those that don't feel like reading all that much:

The fact that Kabuto named his advanced sage mode, dragon sage mode should not really mean that a sneak contract holder should have any access to dragons, access to two species is unheard of. In my view it will be like a cat summoner calling an advance sage mode of sorts lion sage mode would not mean they can summon lions also. Further more, even though I have not actual connection to sage mode, anyone well reset in sage mode should be able to claim and advanced mode similar to Kabuto, like becoming more frog like but being an advancement rather than a symbol for imperfection, those that have reptiles as summons, even more so.
I would disagree with the dragon association given that no strong features and/or abilities of dragons were given to Kabuto's advanced sage mode.
I regards to my dna alteration/fusion involving dragons and resulting in an increase in endurance an physical ability... yes it does resemble a small part of sage mode on a lesser lvl but dna alterations of sorts are possible, the results my vary, not to mention that sage mode is by far not the only thing with that effect, take cs2 for example. The real thing about sage mode would be the ability to gather natural energy, use sage chakra and sage jutsu, create more powerful nin/gen/taijutsu and the alike. Now those is what I say are special characteristics RESTRICTED to sage mode. Sorry if I left out anything.

[HiroToranaga]

Well Rares, you did bring it up in the discussions board. If you did not want to talk about it then you should not have brought it up. The only person who control you actions is you so don't go and blame Kay as an excuse to log on and act however you wish. This personal grudge of yours has gone on long enough. It is childish and does nothing to contribute to the forum. Speaking of which if your too lazy to read quit Sl and go do something else. This is a text based game and the forum does not need people who wont take the time and actually look at what other people have to say. If you do decide to shape up check your grammar and spelling before you reply. Your posts are atrocious.

Now for the rest of the people who are actually interested in this thread. I think that it is narrow minded to say that a person who has the dog contract can't summon a wolf. The Snake contract is not the "African black adder scroll" it covers all snakes. Snakes to dragons is far fetched but then again the writers named it such so take up with them. I still think Sasuke should have been killed by Orochimaru and not be God modded out because he's so cute. But back to the point. I personally disagree with hitting the forest for hours on end means you should be able to claim whatever you want but Rares is right to say that you should have at least a reset in sage mode if your going to take the easy way out. I think claiming a lesser extent of the  sage mode is just as wrong as someone claiming their custom demon gives them near Bijuu powers, although I have only seen one example of the former and no examples of the latter.

It is no great leap of logic to say that the issue people have with the unofficial content on Sl is that they grant powers they did not earn. If we are going to honestly work through the issue at hand we need to start on some universally agreed upon ground and work from there. As one of those Ancients everyone is so found of referencing to lend credence to their words I feel I have the felicity to get the ball rolling. These are not revolutionary concepts but I do not plan to enforce my personal views or get too ambitious.

No God modding: God modding is the claiming of powers you did not earn or could never possibly earn. As zone fighting is an Rp event these powers must be acquired with sufficient Rp(Not some pm with an alt or some random dude one time for the third tomoe of the Sharingan let alone the MS or EMS) This applies just as much for those non human races. Vampires die in sunlight, Werewolves are grievously hurt by silver and so on.

No OOC in the villages: This rule seems to have been forgotten by the younger crowd. If an issue comes up, Pm about it or go to the zones. The village is not a place to settle arguments but to RP.

No Character Control: You do not have the right to decide what another character is, does, or says. If a neko/dog/elf girl comes up to piss on you you can't decide they miss and hit an electric fence and die as a result. You can just step out of the way and ignore the auto hit.

No Auto Hitting: This really is just a specific form of character control that has come up so often we and to give it a name. You cannot desire the other character can't figure a way out of your attack.

[Uchiha, Rares]

The village is a place for whatever you want it to be.(in the limits of decency)

Edit:
As for universal agreement, that's just wishful thinking. There are multiple grounds on which people never came to terms on for years, and in turn, simply ignored those that were "illegitimate" in their own, personal views.

For example: some think that if you don't rp drinking liquids at least twice a week, you should die. That of course is an exaggeration but you get the general idea. Others think the otherwise, that rp means squat before in-game. The reasonable is somewhere mid-way.

The term god-moddish is overly extended on SL regardless.

[Asadi]

The village is a place for whatever you want it to be.(in the limits of decency)

Edit:
As for universal agreement, that's just wishful thinking. There are multiple grounds on which people never came to terms on for years, and in turn, simply ignored those that were "illegitimate" in their own, personal views.

For example: some think that if you don't rp drinking liquids at least twice a week, you should die. That of course is an exaggeration but you get the general idea. Others think the otherwise, that rp means squat before in-game. The reasonable is somewhere mid-way.

The term god-moddish is overly extended on SL regardless.

That's why I rp drinking everyday! Gonna get meh drink on, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over again. Hmm.... boy, why do I feel like I'm repeating myself?

[Asadi]

I have my means. What they are, I dare not say. 

[Quest]

This topic suddenly seem so funny to me. Legit and non-legit? Seriously? Because I've never seen any Naruto characters point at something and shout, "WTH! How can that be legit?! We'll stop filming until we sort this out with Masashi Kishimoto."

Here, put your RP skills to the test by putting yourself in Asuma or Shikamaru's role for a minute and go back to the scene where Hidan got his head cut off and was still talking. Did that seem real to you? Did anything you know about the world around you that make this scene possible or explainable? I would say no. What followed next? Fear? Hopelessness? Are you thinking to yourself, if we can't kill him then what is the next best move?

If you can perform the above, then why can't it be done in SL's RP? Instead of feeling what our characters should feel when they see something un-explainable or completely out of their world, we enter OOC Mode and begin a furious debate on the matter.

Are you "Naruto" or is "Naruto" merely your avatar on SL?

Note: Replace "Naruto" with your character's name.

[cmage]

This topic suddenly seem so funny to me. Legit and non-legit? Seriously? Because I've never seen any Naruto characters point at something and shout, "WTH! How can that be legit?! We'll stop filming until we sort this out with Masashi Kishimoto."

Here, put your RP skills to the test by putting yourself in Asuma or Shikamaru's role for a minute and go back to the scene where Hidan got his head cut off and was still talking. Did that seem real to you? Did anything you know about the world around you that make this scene possible or explainable? I would say no. What followed next? Fear? Hopelessness? Are you thinking to yourself, if we can't kill him then what is the next best move?

If you can perform the above, then why can't it be done in SL's RP? Instead of feeling what our characters should feel when they see something un-explainable or completely out of their world, we enter OOC Mode and begin a furious debate on the matter.

Are you "Naruto" or is "Naruto" merely your avatar on SL?

Note: Replace "Naruto" with your character's name.

That whole spiel pretty much amounted to, do whatever you want because everything doesn't have to be explainable. Which opens the floor to God-Modding for everyone.

[Quest]

Yes, it opens the floor to God Modding for everyone, so does that mean we have to take it?

Rules ain't gonna help you achieve the perfect RP that we wish for. Gather good roleplayers that make our RP experience unforgettable and have our RP written down, that sound like a way better idea to me.

[Raifudo Oppa]

But then you have to define what a "good role-player" is, and you can't do that without a basis.

If you wanna say "people who enjoy it and are very creative", well, you got every vampire/sexy-neko/demon-god out there.

[Quest]

I think we are experienced enough to separated the good from the bad by roleplaying with them. I'm not a good judge of myself, but I sure can tell if someone sucks at roleplaying after a brawl in the fighting zones.

[Raifudo Oppa]

How do they suck? 'Cause their grammar is bad? They don't describe things too much?

Well, what if the vampire-modders are well-versed in English and are very descriptive, does that make them good? Even though they are modding?

[Asadi]

How do they suck? 'Cause their grammar is bad? They don't describe things too much?

Well, what if the vampire-modders are well-versed in English and are very descriptive, does that make them good? Even though they are modding?

Proof?

Hell, as it stands, almost everyone claims great strength, speed, etc.

It all comes down to views and what-not. It's just rather sad that it's boiled down to this.

[Quest]

How do they suck? 'Cause their grammar is bad? They don't describe things too much?

Well, what if the vampire-modders are well-versed in English and are very descriptive, does that make them good? Even though they are modding?

Unfortunately, it is too complicated to put into words. You just kinda know from their actions. Like how they confront your attacks? Do they act accordingly when wounded? Do they forget about their surrounding half way through RP? Do they ignore impact? Are their every attack set up in a way that they actually state that you cannot do anything about it? Do they perform actions that are physically impossible for their character? I can go on and on for hours >_>