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[Solo Iori]

*Personal Note: Rares, this topic is not an attempt at attacking you, nor an attempt to get back Hiraishin, though it will require your involvement. I mean, what can you expect? You informed me yourself that you talk to those whom you deem need talking to RP wise. I do not dislike you, and I don't know if I can call you a friend, but I'm sure you remember our first few encounters. Namely the Bijuu Match between Zenaku and I. And Bocchiere, I know you will more than likely post, so if you can't keep this as a civilized and respectable discussion, i.e. not insulting people, or taking cheap shots, then please refrain from posting. Now to the main reason for this topic.

I have been seeing many discussions spawning about RP as of late. One thing would be the conditions of Bijuu Matches. There are those that believe that the Matches need to be as closely related to the Anime as possible. For example, Rares. And there are those that yearn for the old ways of Bijuu matches, e.g. Zenaku. At least, that's what it appeared to me as. A second example would be canon jutsu claiming.

I could easily go about saying how I wish the old ways still existed, but that is not going to solve or achieve anything. And for the alternative opinions about the old ways, you have every right as players of the game to want a Role-Playing site that is as canon as it can possibly become. But what I want to know is; where do the boundaries end? When do we stop chastising every person we don't agree with? When do we stop killing off people that don't share the same views as us? This whole RP situation is becoming increasingly chaotic and I fear the site could become a virtual LOB. What do you all think? When do we Stop?

(If I'm not entirely clear, please for give me. I am not accustomed to writing coherent paragraphs)

[Angra Mainyu]

Unfortunately, not everybody can be like-minded. Everybody has their own opinion(s) on just about every aspect to do with roleplaying, with some lenient to flexibility, others lenient towards the imposition of restrictions. Unfortunately neither of the two communities can coexist 100% of the time, and will often debate with one another (i.e. Kayenta and Rares) with neither side gaining the advantage over the other.

While although many considerably-serious roleplayers would prefer the latter aforementioned scenario, it is inevitable that there will be players unhappy with them, and will ultimately refute them. They can't be forced to abide by the rules, whether they be claiming something that's been claimed  by another (i.e. Hiraishin) or making a vaguely-described entrance into a heavily-fortified village (Tan-I-Forgot-Her-Name-*Facepalms*), being that, as this site wasn't originally designed for people to roleplay on (via input in the commentary area), an official roleplay-moderating body cannot be formed under Neji's authority. People can be ignored, or have their actions 'voided' by a majority of players involved, and that is a tradition that will most likely last up until Shinobi Legends is of no more.

In conclusion, there is practically nothing we can do to ascertain ourselves that the chaos escalating on-site will ever subside, however we can do everything possible to at least delay the inevitable, if by only a couple of months (in with Kishimoto will probably introduce another overpowered technique several players will be squabbling over possession of). We are mostly (if not all) individualists with our own roleplay-formalities and mannerisms - that is what makes us (metaphorically) human. And that is unlikely to change.

[Solo Iori]

I fear that you are right. The two sides will clash, and the users of voiding will be overly abundant. Am I to sit back and contemplate the days of old like many others? Is the joy this site once offered nothing but a fleeting memory? I might sound a bit to caring for a simple game, but it is difficult when that game has offered many previous years of entertainment. I suppose, judging on how things have been going, that the best case scenario is that the two factions split and simply interact among themselves, unlikely though it seems.

[Angra Mainyu]

There are three scenarios:

• Conform to the roleplay rules both created and followed (most of the time) by the majority of today's serial roleplayers (many of which are inactive for God-knows-why (probably because the village system-reformation still hasn't taken place).
• Create your own roleplay faction (like Sunagakure (majority-wise anyway)) and participate in instances involving only your own folk, unless of course your own freedom is intruded upon by some bored, stereotypical warmonger, in which your ideals and theirs will indefinitely clash.
• Leave and find either another site promoting a roleplaying system more suited to your tastes, or just give up on it and find a new hobby, like watching paint dry! Okay maybe not, I personally suggest you stick to #1 or #2.

But of course, there could be more.

[Uchiha, Rares]

Well just as stated, I can't force rp upon anyone, literally anyone could go out and claim w/e me being able to do anything about it. I simply go around elaborating my opinion to others.

Just like how there is nothing stopping anyone from claiming hirashin, edo tensei, earth grudge, all the kg in existence, regardless of how much it may bother others. But given that my opinion i often relied on when party A thinks party B is claiming something they should not have in a zone, I simply tend to go around in order to reduce future issues. Simply giving a warning such as:

"I can't stop you, anyone can claim whatever they want, however, I won't acknowledge X technique in rp that involves me or Konoha and I'd side with the opposite party if I was called to judge a zone in which the enemy questioned it." As stated, my intervention and value is worthless for those that don't respect unofficial rp rules, don't care to integrate, etc. But for those that do respect them, i.e. try not to god mode, respect the in game-kg, respect the claimed, my word tends to be fairly heavy. If one is not the latter, they might as well go wild and god mode their butts off given that they will fall in "illegitimate" category in the view of quite a few. On the other hand, I always elaborate as well as I can, my view that is, and don't just go "lol, no you don't" and as such, I find myself to be reasonable.

Don't fret, my rudeness in the Zenaku incident was due to various circumstances, I'm not that bad a person. I don't recall becoming rude in our latest debate either.

As for the prior joy of the site, a lot of valuable people actually left cause there were too many god modes.
I heard some suggesting that rp should not be so serious, shouldn't have enforced laws, etc.
just-for-fun rp community: W/o laws, etc, it's a place where those that wish to rp properly are at a great disadvantage, battles stop being a "who has more rp skill" and start being "who can god mode more". I personally doubt any serious role player would want that kind of thing. It was easier in the past even though the % of god modes was 10 times the current one. Mainly because we were more clan centered and it was easier to just ignore others but it's harder to silently ignore someone attacking or defending a village. Hell, they could even call you out on not acknowledging their attack and claim an auto hit. xD

I personally find hirashin an iffy thing, something that should be restricted to a few and that would be chaotic if not and if in the hands of poor users, it's not easy to not god mode with it. Even before it was claimed I would advise friends that would come to me asking my opinion on them claiming it in the future that they should not do it in my view, and when it became claimed I strongly supported that for those very reason, it has nothing to do with me recently learning it, that was just a result of me taking the Kumo war WAY to seriously.

*goes to watch the grass grow*

[Uchiha, Rares]

Some if not many view that "creativity" as illegitimate. Legitimate and illegitimate are EXTREMELY variable. I simply present my view to others, view which many choose to respect due to me making a great deal of sense or at least due to it coming to bite them back in the posterior otherwise given my influence in the retrospect that upon me making an opinion public many will follow suit.

Hell, if we go by what really isn't legit? Non-shinobi chars cause many disapprove of them? Nay, they might as well exist, hell we don't know if the Juubi wasn't just some pet of a super demon. Claiming kg you didn't get in-game? Nope, why should in game stuff, on a site that was not even intended for rp and has NO regulations on such have any effect and/or influence? Claiming sound based jutsu that by far surpass device ones w/o the use of device? Just cause nothing close to such was in the series won't mean it's impossible? Reincarnation? Oro said jutsu possibilities are nigh infinite. What I'm trying to get at with all this is the fact that as a community we rule ourselves in the absence of laws. The closest you will ever get to an official moderators are simple players like Zenaku, Rai, myself, Kay(though she is a GM so she might be offended by being tossed in the simple player jar) that are well renown and reputed and people have the tendency to follow suit whenever they proclaim some rule of sorts.

Hell, have the 4 of us start an elaboration on why raiton is modish and spread the word that it is to be voided and the next day you have half of SL dropping it and ridiculing those that do not. Of course, this was an exaggeration, but you get the point.

[Raifudo Oppa]

Before I read any of this from my phone, and kill my battery, I just wanna say one thing based off of the initial post:

Paradox of the heap.

You're attempting to draw a line where it cannot be drawn. Vagueness does not mean invalidity. There are certain points (even in the show itself!) where things can contradict themselves or bolster some sort exponentially powerful jutsu that isn't forbidden, etc.

Likewise, summoning's are a case to say what one's summon can do and cannot do simply because we can say "we haven't seen an example", etc. where the person can rebuttal "well, we haven't seen the ability to not do so."

[Solo Iori]

But Rares, you admit yourself that people follow what you say. You say that you simply inform people of thier illegitimatecy, and can't force them to listen to you, but you do just that. People, as you put, follow suit and start rediculing others for not following your rulings. I know you understand this. You show much concern for the population of the 'Hardcore'  RPers, but what about the players that believe the old days were much funner? How is it fair for those that do RP as Demons and the like to have these 'unofficial' RP rules shoved down thier throats until they either conform, quit RP, or quit SL in general? The 'Hardcore' population is not the only group with rights to create and RP as they like

[Angra Mainyu]

As for players roleplaying as demons and whatnot, I personally believe that it isn't entirely disagreeable, although I am more lenient towards people transitioning into demons, and simply not being born as one (I'm not saying that I disagree with the latter scenario, simply that I prefer the former one, because it allows for a greater flow of creativity). Characters such as Orochimaru, Kisame and Zetsu are demons in their own right, the first having transitioned himself into one, the other two well, practically born as them. And we all know which of the three has more fanboys/girls (Orochimaru, for those who weren't already aware (he has more fanart)). But now I'm trailing off-topic. If people explained how and why they became demon-esque beings, and applied as much Narutoverse-derived logic to their creation (i.e. vampiric-powers (thoroughly explained and obviously not overpowered (such as Hiraishin-esque teleportation) belong to a Kekkei Genkai, people become were-beings via entering Stage 2 of the Cursed Seal transformation-thing'o (which I strongly suggest they possess in-game before claiming)), then what is to say that they cannot exist in our alternative universe to the canonverse?

[Raifudo Oppa]

But Rares, you admit yourself that people follow what you say. You say that you simply inform people of thier illegitimatecy, and can't force them to listen to you, but you do just that. People, as you put, follow suit and start rediculing others for not following your rulings. I know you understand this. You show much concern for the population of the 'Hardcore'  RPers, but what about the players that believe the old days were much funner? How is it fair for those that do RP as Demons and the like to have these 'unofficial' RP rules shoved down thier throats until they either conform, quit RP, or quit SL in general? The 'Hardcore' population is not the only group with rights to create and RP as they like

1) If people become influenced enough to adopt said reasoning's: so be it.
- If they choose to try and influence others to role-play how they (now!) feel is proper: so be it.
- - Domino effect.
2) "...players that believe the old days were much funner?"
- People can voice how they felt about the generations that have come and gone; you can't please everyone, y'know?
- - Mind you, just because something is as reputable as "the old days" does not mean it was better. It was far from it, actually. The fact that people could RP as "free" (as many people propose it as) as they want, it would give lenience to god-mod as much as they want.
- - - Such examples exist in Taumaster's nullifying of Nin/Tai/Gen-jutsu by use of some sort of plague style; likewise, it would eat all sorts of chakra. With it, he would also claim auto-hypnotism with sharingan -- that is to say he stated you made eye-contact with him.
- - - - Varu is another example: She made claim of a certain chakra called "Kaosu" chakra that existed as a complete sphere around the user. It was impenetrable and you were allowed to cast jutsu outside of it. Let alone the fact she claimed to be part demon that gave her leeway of claiming things such as Hachimon-based speeds and strengths; to top it all off, she claimed a Mangekyou sharingan with (from what I saw) zero-evidence of any sort of RP for it. Because she was the Hachibi-jinchuuriki, she was entitled to continuous perks that she saw fit.
3) If they truly want to role-play as they want: demons, werewolves, vampires, this and that, then they can do so; just, they need to understand the differences between the two "communities" (as they are recently established as) of those who seek out to role-play as closely to the manga as they can (not saying they're strictly-bound to all senses and contradictions of the manga itself) and those who want to role-play primal beasts and such with the abilities to render anything null as well as mimic any sort of jutsu they please as long as they add the term "demon" or "demonic" before it.

Edit: Fixed some sentences.

[Quest]

The only thing that have changed is how people RP. You guys just tried too hard to have your RP acknowledged by others nowadays. Everyone have forgotten how to have fun. I just act out my character's storyline, read and get involved if you want to. Heck, if I got no one to play with me, I'll just play with myself by making alt(s). As long as I'm not overpowered to the point where it's practically God Mode, someone is bound to get involved with my RP =)

[Raifudo Oppa]

Everyone have forgotten how to have fun.

That's a rather somber claim. Could it be that, just how people changed their role-play, they're indulging themselves in something else that they see as "fun"? Certainly they'd avoid boring, annoying, etc. things if that were the case -- and by that I mean role-play who they are now.

Edit: Fixed quote.

[Quest]

Yup, they have changed, they have learned to enjoy holding onto power and having others bow before their almighty prowess. They are even taking that outside of RP and into the forums. Their words is law. Yes, they are having fun, but I wouldn't call that RP fun.

note: "They" in the post above does not apply to any specifically. I'm only saying "they" because it was used in Rai's post.

[Raifudo Oppa]

Everyone

I can poke at words too, y'know?

You want to say everyone forgot how to have fun? I don't see that; I used "they" to define the people I mean have changed their preferences in entertainment. Likewise, don't you think the people who remained in the past (for lack of a better phrase) don't propose the same onto them?

I mean, if you want to go ahead target simply people who have changed their role-play, why not dwell on the people who haven't? You want to talk about god-mode claims and yet feel like vampiric forces deserve leeway to claim portals, invincibility, flight, inability to age, etc. just because some people prefer a more strict role-play now? If that's their idea for fun, and you support it, why not support people's claims of manga-based techniques that involve reincarnation or reanimation of corpses? Or claiming/winning a prize of sorts? Ergo: Bijuu, etc. It's their version of fun whether you state it as such or not. Don't come stating they forgot simply because you don't see it.

The people, who you claim, to be these power-hungry folk claim reign over nothing. In case you haven't noticed, whatever we have "claimed" is a spot on the forum's discussion to discuss something that has to do with our part of role-play. I.E. Bijuu fights; and even then: we do it because our fellow members asked us to or because we care enough.

Also, please give me names of people "trying too hard to have their rp acknowledged" and how they're doing so.

[Solo Iori]

I mean, if you want to go ahead target simply people who have changed their role-play, why not dwell on the people who haven't? You want to talk about god-mode claims and yet feel like vampiric forces deserve leeway to claim portals, invincibility, flight, inability to age, etc. just because some people prefer a more strict role-play now? If that's their idea for fun, and you support it, why not support people's claims of manga-based techniques that involve reincarnation or reanimation of corpses? Or claiming/winning a prize of sorts? Ergo: Bijuu, etc. It's their version of fun whether you state it as such or not. Don't come stating they forgot simply because you don't see it.

Now when I used Demons, Vampires and the like, it was meant to be an example. I was not; at any point, trying to say anyone can do anything they want.

As for players roleplaying as demons and whatnot, I personally believe that it isn't entirely disagreeable, although I am more lenient towards people transitioning into demons, and simply not being born as one (I'm not saying that I disagree with the latter scenario, simply that I prefer the former one, because it allows for a greater flow of creativity). Characters such as Orochimaru, Kisame and Zetsu are demons in their own right, the first having transitioned himself into one, the other two well, practically born as them.

If people explained how and why they became demon-esque beings, and applied as much Narutoverse-derived logic to their creation (i.e. vampiric-powers (thoroughly explained and obviously not overpowered (such as Hiraishin-esque teleportation) belong to a Kekkei Genkai, people become were-beings via entering Stage 2 of the Cursed Seal transformation-thing'o (which I strongly suggest they possess in-game before claiming)), then what is to say that they cannot exist in our alternative universe to the canonverse?

I whole heartily agree with.... the above person. If they can come up with some acceptable RP background and powers etc. then they should be accepted.

You want to say everyone forgot how to have fun? I don't see that; I used "they" to define the people I mean have changed their preferences in entertainment.

But when the people that have changed their 'entertainment preferences' begin forcing it unto those 'stuck in the Past,' that is when it becomes to much. Now if the new way is what others enjoy, then good. They're having fun. If I prefer to preserve some of the old ways, then that is my fun. Imposing your opinion is what the problem is nowadays.