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[Uchiha, Rares]

Surprise! Surprise! Just the thought of being cheap and not working for it like a respectable role-player would is not quite enough to stop people from abusing a loophole resulted from an error on Kishi's behalf.

Now I've heard quite a bit of complaints about this matter from both average and elite role-players. Some lacking the sharingan resets, some going about EMS the right way, some having not managed to get an EMS the right way but refuse to go the cheap way. So are the latter just idiots when so many just trade eyes and get it?

Alas, here is my detailed list of arguments:

the fact that anyone with the mangekyou could obtain EMS in such a way would be more than enough to void such crap, hell, I have more respect for those that just go and claim it, they don't go abusing pretend loop holes.

For starters, merely because Kishi messed up via ambiguity or bad wording, does not mean it's something to go ahead and abuse. There are even cannon stuff that got voided for being a god mode.

Most importantly, there is proof that robbing the eyes of an Uchiha sibling is the way to go about it. There is zero proof to merely trading eyes being possible. Just cause it isn't in the manga doesn't mean it's not possible is not a valid argument. There is proof to it clearly not being something meant to be obtainable via trade.

The weird statue representing the EMS has 4 sharingans this further suggesting that one is indeed left w/o such. And that it requires all 4 eyes in some way.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j361/Rares_Dragota/chapter-3861.jpg

In the same link he mentions the many sacrifices taking place in the history of the Uchiha clans in the attempts to obtain EMS, that more than strongly suggests that merely trading eyes, was NOT an option.

Lastly, we have the most known means of obtaining the mangekyou to begin with, the EMS is bound to be similar, given that the mangekyou is known for it's sacrificial requirements.

To sum it up.
Pro voiding the cheap method: Goes against Uchiha clan history and means, the only known series examples did not include merely trading eyes. The statue thingy, that further provides us with the fact that two can bear the EMS from the same 4 eyes, by appearing after being presented when the EMS was mentioned, behind Itachi and with just two sharingans and two empty sockets.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j361/Rares_Dragota/chapter-386.jpg

Against, pretty much the famous "Just cause it isn't in the series does not mean it's not possible" something often used by those that are commonly accused of passing the creativity/god mode line.
However even that falls apart, if not for contradicting Uchiha history, and not for the 4 eyed and 2 eyes 2 empty sockets statues, Itachi states it himself. "To obtain the mangekyou one must kill their best friend, and for EMS, one must kill their kinsman" in the second link I've provided.

I think I'll start to attempt and empower the voiding of this obviously wrong trend, everyone is welcome to follow suit.

Well this is all I have, I'll probably lack future input.


Though just like in the mangekyou case killing may not be a must given that Madara didn't kill Izuna, it is stated that for an Uchiha to give up his eyes is like suicide, further goes to show the sacrifice that takes place regardless. The eyes find new light in the new body so hell, if exchanging was a viable way. Izuna could have juts incorporated the blind eyes of Madara. The point of this was not the need to kill to begin with, merely the fact that two mangekyou pairs will NOT result in two EMS ones. Oh well, I believe my point was made.

It's well known that the only manga examples we have are MS users that got well advanced in the doujutsu before obtaining the EMS, hell, we don't even know if going blind is not a prerequisite. As such, gradnmaster Uchiha, would be a prerequisite to obtaining it by stealing the eyes of your kinsman.

Note: the 4 resets requirements goes to stop two resets from claiming what would only be acceptable for 3, 4.
Note2: For the sake of saving time, I am updating this as the conversation advances.

[cmage]

We can just void EMS and let everyone go blind

Or limit EMS to Uchiha only

[Angra Mainyu]

Or limit EMS to Uchiha only

That.

[Raifudo Oppa]

Then we have people claiming to be Uchiha or half or quarter of an Uchiha. We have people saying their parents were Uchiha and they moved to another country and they had them there.

And some other shenanigans.

[cmage]

Fine...... full 4 resets in Sharingan as a prerequisite? And simply state that all pirated EMS(one attained without proper resets) to revert back to normal MS. Sure players won't like it, but it's a better way to moderate it and give those who DID get the resets a bonus of sorts.

Also even though nobody will be keeping track, is there an approximation on the number of uses of MS jutsu one can use before going blind.

[Angra Mainyu]

Fine...... full 4 resets in Sharingan as a prerequisite? And simply state that all pirated EMS(one attained without proper resets) to revert back to normal MS. Sure players won't like it, but it's a better way to moderate it and give those who DID get the resets a bonus of sorts.

Sounds like a plan.

Also even though nobody will be keeping track, is there an approximation on the number of uses of MS jutsu one can use before going blind.

As I recall, Sasuke only used MS-derived techniques about 14-18 times before he lost most of his sight (when Tobi whisked him away).
As for Itachi, who really knows, probably even more (considering he was using MS-derived techniques since Part 1, and most likely in more instances before he confronted Kakashi and Jiraiya).

I say it would depend on the number of resets the character possesses; perhaps 10 for two resets, 15 for three resets, and 20 for four resets? Sure, they sound like a lot, but whenever somebody uses an Enton-derived technique or a partial Susanoo-transformation, they'll be expending one of their vision-counts.

[Raifudo Oppa]

Good luck regulating everyone for that and keeping count of their uses.

[Uchiha, Rares]

Just having 4 resets shouldn't be enough. It's something that should have an rp demand. It's bad enough that everyone magically claims mangekyou sharingan at the second reset. One should require to incorporate the eyes of a player while voiding his old ones or what not.
4 resets =/= EMS. They should work for it beyond resets, and when I say work, I don't mean back flip at 4 resets and magically have it. This way seems like the best, in the sense there will be one less MS user in order for one to gain EMS, needless to say many of the 2 resets that go for it fail pretty badly, badly enough that that cheap and illegitimate stuffs was their only chance. Well, if anything, the two should fuse.

Given the manga examples, only cases in which the users had advanced well in to the mangekyou were given. So requiring to be a 4 resets for it to even work is not that far fetched. Personally, I just allow that but don't allow them to claim stuff I wouldn't allow a regular honored. That way, it's not that relevant.

I find basing it on resets only to be a horrible idea. It's not like it's something you can gain just by being a powerful Uchiha that did not steal the eyes of his kinsman.

To sum it up: Be a grand master AND do it the right way rp-wise.

[cmage]

Do you not know what the word "prerequisite" means? >___> Or many I just wasn't clear, I did mean with the inclusion of RP, but with having the 4 full resets into Sharingan first then doing the whole pirating of another person(with MS and atleast three resets into sharingan?) in order to obtain EMS.

Your reasoning for everything can be found right here: http://orochimaru09.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/9.jpg

[Uchiha, Rares]

My reasoning for everything can be seen in my sig gif. >>
Jokes left aside, I'm for it to an extent but not entirely. In the sense that it is possible but shouldn't go to cheat resets. IN the sense, that w/o being a Grand master, it would only give you eternal light. Cause yeah, no one want to see honoreds with enton and full susano'os.

I'm going by logic on this one, in the sense that one may very well use up his mangekyou while only having 2 resets and go for the only option that may return his vision.