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[UettoSenju]

Would just like to point out that that Kamui and I made our own rules for our fight.... we have the right to make our own rules in our fight.

I told Kamui he could use any thing he wanted to in our fight. This si off topic of the subject at hand but Rakudo has no right to go telling others what they should or should not do when he lacks the knowledge to know what my Biju fights pertain to.

[sploofmoof]

I think it makes more sense to alter the rule a bit to "Between you and the Zombie only one of you can attack per turn."

So you can both attack, but you can't both be throwing out attacks in the same post.

[Tsuyo]

Well, I don't really see it as a problem, as you get a fair amount of wiggle room with your defensive actions. Say somebody charges at you, and bypasses your zombies, you could in theory still do things like shinra tensei, and such to drive them back, while still causing damage.

Is that not 'defending into the motion of an attack', Trev? Well, that example is a flat-out attack if you think about it. All the enemy is doing is running at you. Maybe he wants a hug lol. But on a serious note, you should see what I mean.

Well, the point of nerfing it was to take away a large part of its strategic value; it is one thing to have summons in battle (that now I have to start counting, as apparently they do have a bit of a time limit, though it seems long) but another to have another shinobi on the battlefield. Hardly anyone wanted to have to deal with two shinobi vs one (except maybe people like Kirk and Zenaku, who would take it as a challenge).

It's one thing to nerf a technique, and it's a whole 'nother ball game when you're killing a technique which is what this rule does. Technically, with summons being able to perform various assortments of jutsu like transformation, and use the advantages of said transformation, what's stopping them from being another shinobi, as transformation is a really cheap jutsu as we all know. There's virtually no difference in it. (And yeah, fighting 2 on one would be friggin awesome!)

As for the 20 percent loss, it would make sense to be a bit winded considering the sudden drop in permanent chakra. That's not like splitting it up with kage bunshin or anything because that chakra is completely gone, ya know? That's just how I see it. We all know how few people actually deal with chakra exhaustion, but that's beside the point. It's still a nice chunk of chakra gone.

The no attack method is also rather bad for everyone else because this rule encourages the user to summon more zombies out because there's almost nothing else that the user can do while using the zombies. Think about it like this, what would you rather fight? 1 human + 1 zombie (unless the user is dumb enough to waste all of their chakra on three zombies, leaving them fairly useless. I don't care how much chakra one has, you are NOT fighting as well at less than 50% chakra) or 3 zombies while someone lies away with attack prevention or kamui, being completely invincible from life since they can't do anything else with their precious chakra.

[Camel]

I like to clarify something about the permanent chakra lost, you don't actually lose twenty percentage of your chakras permanently unless that Edo Tensei Zombie manages to break free from your control.

- Starting now (July 2, 2013), Edo Tensei users who summon a zombie then release or lose it will still have a constant 20% chakra drain until that freed ET Zombie is sealed away.

Further more, you will actually gain back what was lost on the battlefield as soon as that particular zombie is either sealed or unsummoned.

- 20% of chakra is used for each individual zombie summon and permanently lost for the duration that the zombie is active.  Summoning the maximum of 3 zombies equals a permanent 60% loss of the summoner's total chakra pool.  Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 20% for that summon.

I just thought this may have been overlooked.
I could be wrong but heck, I wanted to give a little input about these rules. 

[Akasaka Rakudo]

Would just like to point out that that Kamui and I made our own rules for our fight.... we have the right to make our own rules in our fight.

I told Kamui he could use any thing he wanted to in our fight. This si off topic of the subject at hand but Rakudo has no right to go telling others what they should or should not do when he lacks the knowledge to know what my Biju fights pertain to.

@Kirk You told me that you are letting him, I did know this, which is why I said I hope he is going to follow the rules (which he is) after your fight, you are letting him do it but he is still breaking the rules.

@ Kamui You don't get the chakra back from what I am reading. If you summoned one zombie it would take 20% of your chakra to do it and then lock that amount. So you could never have more than 80% of your total chakra while it is out. When it is sealed that lock is removed and you could begin to restore your chakra to full levels again.

I do see what Tsuyo is saying and think that the rule at least needs to be more specific. Someone could try and punch you and if you make an earth wall and they claim it hurts their fist that is an attack.

[Trev]

The chakra rule basically means you can't recover the chakra while the zombie is out (Even through means like preta path, etc) Once the zombie is sealed or you unsummon it, you can get it back.

I suppose the rule has to be more specific, but like I've been saying, you has SOME wiggle room with defense moves. In my opinion the offensive rule should only really prohibit combination attacks with your zombies, to prevent too much of an assault.

[Camel]

Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 20% for that summon.

This applies to combat rules, however in a non-combat situation...I can have hundreds of zombies out for the sole purpose of protecting a village (guards) but once they become engaged in combat then that rule applies and I'll have to accommodate to it.

I did the math accordingly to the ratio rule on here and the most a user will ever lose is forty-percentage of their chakras with sixty percentage to spare. (This excludes Jinchuuriki fights were the ratio is 1:1)

Considering the chakra levels of most shinobi/kunoichi on this site, I don't see why it's a problem.
If you have enough chakras you could even make the weakest jutsus look slightly OP.

But...if some users on here feel that x/y rule isn't specific enough then I may consider a slight edit to re-word it correctly, however it just won't be an edit that will be in anyone's favor.

[Eric]

Well, I don't really see it as a problem, as you get a fair amount of wiggle room with your defensive actions. Say somebody charges at you, and bypasses your zombies, you could in theory still do things like shinra tensei, and such to drive them back, while still causing damage.

Well, the point of nerfing it was to take away a large part of its strategic value; it is one thing to have summons in battle (that now I have to start counting, as apparently they do have a bit of a time limit, though it seems long) but another to have another shinobi on the battlefield. Hardly anyone wanted to have to deal with two shinobi vs one (except maybe people like Kirk and Zenaku, who would take it as a challenge).

It's one thing to nerf a technique, and it's a whole 'nother ball game when you're killing a technique which is what this rule does. Technically, with summons being able to perform various assortments of jutsu like transformation, and use the advantages of said transformation, what's stopping them from being another shinobi, as transformation is a really cheap jutsu as we all know. There's virtually no difference in it. (And yeah, fighting 2 on one would be friggin awesome!)

As for the 20 percent loss, it would make sense to be a bit winded considering the sudden drop in permanent chakra. That's not like splitting it up with kage bunshin or anything because that chakra is completely gone, ya know? That's just how I see it. We all know how few people actually deal with chakra exhaustion, but that's beside the point. It's still a nice chunk of chakra gone.

The no attack method is also rather bad for everyone else because this rule encourages the user to summon more zombies out because there's almost nothing else that the user can do while using the zombies. Think about it like this, what would you rather fight? 1 human + 1 zombie (unless the user is dumb enough to waste all of their chakra on three zombies, leaving them fairly useless. I don't care how much chakra one has, you are NOT fighting as well at less than 50% chakra) or 3 zombies while someone lies away with attack prevention or kamui, being completely invincible from life since they can't do anything else with their precious chakra.

There is a more than just virtual difference. Using my own summons as an example, let's say I summon Rita to the battlefield. Just like me, she can be killed, seriously wounded (without regeneration) and has a limit to her own chakra supply (though usually I haven't had to worry about that). The same concept with Pyro.

On the other hand, I perform Edo Tensei and have Rita out now. She has limitless chakra and, even with the damage rules, will never have to worry about being injured beyond repair unless she is either sealed or her soul is removed. The only catch is, now I can't perform our collaboration techniques, and I highly doubt that anyone is going to let her 'charge' in order to perform her finisher moves.

Then again, if she can use half my techniques without the risk of losing chakra or strength, then that would be something that I would be willing to sacrifice.

*Fricken hate using the quote system.

[Chika]

Well, I don't really see it as a problem, as you get a fair amount of wiggle room with your defensive actions. Say somebody charges at you, and bypasses your zombies, you could in theory still do things like shinra tensei, and such to drive them back, while still causing damage.

 I've been dragged out of my hiding hole for reasons I left this site.

I don't see a problem with the Summoner performing a defensive action if attacked, but this should remain a defensive action meaning 'evasive' and not an action that delivers a counter along with it. I have not taken the time yet to read the updated rules of Edo Tensei but I don't believe in the Summoner being able to attack with Edo Tensei Summon(s) out.  Perhaps a ruling can be made to allow a Summoner to execute an offensive action with only 1 Edo Tensei out if it is really a problem or hasn't been allowed yet...

[Trev]

Well I think that is a major nerf if by "defending" they only mean evade. That's like asking to get hit and killed.

If somebody has god awful lightning armor, or eight gates, I don't think evasive techniques are going to cover it. I mean, if someone used a small scale shinra tensei, or wrapped themselves in like a psuedo armor of blaze release and the opponent happened to run into it, I don't really consider that offense.

I take the no offensive rule more as, don't have zombie A jinton blast, while I stay in the background shooting fireballs, or use Kamui or something.

Just my take on this rule.

[Akasaka Rakudo]

You also can't do supplementary things while the zombies are out? Like I can't summon a zombie and do Kirigakure no Jutsu?

[Trev]

Hmmm, interesting point. The rules don't specifically ban supplementary moves, but I think they state only defensive moves. Though I can one could do supplementary moves, else you couldn't even activate a dojutsu while the zombie is attacking.

[UettoSenju]

I like the whole user of Edo not being able to attack idea but it should be made very loss as to where they can defend... if they turn their defense into an attack as well. Well hey, good counter skills buddy!

Really the rule should be flexible in my opinion.

[Akasaka Rakudo]

I like the whole user of Edo not being able to attack idea but it should be made very loss as to where they can defend... if they turn their defense into an attack as well. Well hey, good counter skills buddy!

Really the rule should be flexible in my opinion.

That would certainly be nice.

[UettoSenju]

I like the whole user of Edo not being able to attack idea but it should be made very loss as to where they can defend... if they turn their defense into an attack as well. Well hey, good counter skills buddy!

Really the rule should be flexible in my opinion.

That would certainly be nice.

I'm not saying to allow it to be to loss though. All jutsu that are attack based should not be allowed... but like creating a Doton wall to prevent someone from rushing into you is find... if you just so happen to make this wall smack them in the face while defending than nothing wrong in my mind. Just an example.