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[Suishou Koji]

I wasn't going to make this post on the forum, but I feel as though now everyone should know about this, leaning towards those who specialize in sealing like Koji.

Shinko has created a technique that allows him to remove any seal he comes in contact with without knowing the formula. Hiraishin seals: gone, Suppression seals: gone, etc. If this technique is considered to be legit, then that means that anyone using seals against Shinko would be useless.   

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Sukeruton%C2%B7_K%C4%AB

[Bocchiere]

To be fair, if you hit him with something in a fight that would instantly knock him out or seal his chakra he wouldn't be able to work his magic on it.

That is pretty much the only point I can give in his favor though. Personally I also think it is a silly thing to claim, it has just never effected me because I haven't bothered to rp with him on that character.

From what Koji told me Shinko had a seal that could suppress his chakra on him, that I don't believe he knew was there, and then just the day before going to talk with Koji when he knew OOC they'd likely be fighting he just happened to Skeleton Key his whole body.

Since it has become a problem that someone felt the need to bring up I'd give it a thumbs down.

[Angra Mainyu]

[AkiraTheLegendaryANBU]

Yeah, it's not simply an unrealistic technique but a completely unnecessary one at that. I mean, if you're a master of seals then you should be able to identify their mechanics primarily via examination and/or experimentation. It just kinda seems like a way to say "your seals will, for the most part, never effect me". Cause complete or near complete immunity to a particular skill type just kind of ruins another specialist's day. It's the same problem with how genjutsu is dealt with, which has caused a substantial drop in genjutsu practitioners. Luckily it's slowly making a comeback but that's not the point here. I get that Shinko probably had some kind of epiphany that inspired this technique to get ahead of other seal users, but it just kind of ruins the usability of other seal users.

And based on what Bocc said about Koji placing a seal on Shinko that suppressed his chakra and then was promptly removed before a fight, it sounds like it does more then just stop Fuinjutsu, but Juinjutsu as well. Cause they're not the same thing. Fuinjutsu are seals that can have a variety of different effects, one of which being that they can store equipment and be conduits for space-time ninjutsu in the case of hiraishin. Juinjutsu on the other hand are seals with the purpose of taking control of the branded individual and influencing them in some manner. And I get that it's a sketchy line cause they're easily mixable, but the point still stands that seals in general are primarily useless.

Not only that but it just seems like an illogical and cheap way to deal with seals. It even says in the description that it pretty much auto-negates any bad effects trying to tamper with the seal in question would mean, BEFORE the jutsu even lets you analyze the seal in question. It just kind of hits the pause button on seals, let's you read what they do, and then wipes them clean. I mean what if someone analyzed his skeleton key technique and made a Juinjutsu seal that specifically activated when and if Shinko would try to use the skeleton key? Would the seal activate and blow his legs off or would the seal be wiped away like any other?

It just seems problematic and like an easy way out. And it seems more like a counter-seal move then one that would prove one's mastery of seals. If anything I'd expect some kind of really ornate and beautifully constructed/complicated seal to help prove one's mastery. Ya know, something that has a lot going on that works in conjunction and harmony to achieve particular results. Something like this for instance. Besides the fact that most seals are removable so long as  it doesn't stop you from doing so or you have a friend nearby. Even a ninja animal who specializes in seals could do the trick if they know what they're doing.

[The Chameleon Sage]

Agreed. This is a cheap way out of any Fuinjutsu whatsoever and it's OP. The two combined usually result in a void. Like Akira said, Shinko has basically made a jutsu that allows him to auto escape and completely negate an entire jutsu skill. Also like Akira said, its unrealistic. The Skeleton Key pauses the effect of the seal long enough to read its mechanics and then cast the seal off of your body? Yeah that's a definite void right there. On top of that, I doubt Shinko has the knowledge or study of Fuinjutsu to actually use this. This requires spending your whole life studying seals or something close and even then, it's not enough.

It's completely OP. Thumbs Down

[Hazama]

Whew, talk about seeing weird things... Such as being reamed a new one while you were asleep.

Well, alright, I guess it's time for me to make a counter argument... And how do I plan to do that? Well, I'm totally going to show you things that are a bit more ridiculous that being able to simply remove a seal. I mean, c'mon, you make it seem like I've attempted to resurrect Beelzebub himself.

First, I don't know what Koji told all of you, but this RP where I did the seal removal was over a MONTH ago in Zone Five. It happened so long ago, the RP isn't even there anymore. I told Koji when I went rogue that I was RPing in Zone Five, it's not exactly my fault that he waited over a month to finally bring this to the forums because it JUST started to affect him. Even if you all come against me on this and I delete the attack(Which Yumei's mature self already did), I've done countless RP since then. And, what, because Koji didn't read the RP then I'm SOL 'cause his slip up? Sorry, I don't exactly think that's fair.

Alrighty, here;
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Double_Suppression_Seal

This is Koji's seal, the one currently that he's talking about being removed. Now, this seal clearly states that it's basically like the Gentle Fist but in seal form, and that's just cool with everyone else? And besides the fact that the seal is never stated to be passive or needs to be activated, because if it's the former over the latter, it's a bit hard NOT to notice there is a seal on my body.

I'll also take this time to point out how I removed the seal. Seeing as I can't quote my own wikia page thanks to Yumei, you're gonna have to deal with the half-assed quotations here. Now, upon 'unlocking' a seal, the technique recognizes any other foreign seals upon the body and unlocks them. There was a Bijuu seal on my stomach, one that Koji placed there, so it's not hard to target that seal and then have it spread around to unlock the other seals. And if you want to get technical, there were three seals on my body; Two of which I can create and use myself, so it's insane to say I can undo those? As for the third, well, that's the seal mentioned above.

Oh, and as for not having the beast go crazy and kill me or by free when I released the Jutsu, who would've thought there was more than one type of Seal for those things?!
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Armour_Seal

This is almost as insane as being able to create Fuinjutsu upon objects without touching them or using handseals!
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_Creator
Oh Kayenta.... 

Or what about an C-Rank technique that can absorb jutsu of the same affinity even if it's S-Rank?!
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Absorption

And just because;
http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Sagi_Uchimasu:_Heron_Strike
Have you met the instantly draining sword of Jesus?

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Raionroa:_Lion%27s_Roar
Or what about Samehada 2.0?

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Tesla_Coil_Spear
Or what about Magnet Release in a staff?

(Sorry if it seems like I'm putting Kayenta on blast, don't worry, others are next.)

I won't even waste everyone's time by going and Quoting the techniques Yumei uses, but all that's cool yet... A technique that lets me undo seals is too much?

Cheap? Sure, call it what you want... But all it takes is to slap my hands away from where I'm preforming the technique, hell, all it takes is for you to make me take a single step and I can't use it. It also takes chakra to use the technique!  Because I'm not a magician whom can just use techniques without chakra. So... Slap a seal on me that seals my chakra, or simply smack me around a bit, and I can't remove a seal.

It's obviously not meant for battle, if that wasn't obvious. It's not exactly all that broken if you actually look at it, it's easier to stop than 90% of the canon crud out there... Like Invisible ghosts...

[Eric]

Whew, talk about seeing weird things... Such as being reamed a new one while you were asleep.

Well, alright, I guess it's time for me to make a counter argument... And how do I plan to do that? Well, I'm totally going to show you things that are a bit more ridiculous that being able to simply remove a seal. I mean, c'mon, you make it seem like I've attempted to resurrect Beelzebub himself...

...It's obviously not meant for battle, if that wasn't obvious. It's not exactly all that broken if you actually look at it, it's easier to stop than 90% of the canon crud out there... Like Invisible ghosts...

Since, as you said, the narutoprofile wikia page with your technique was deleted because it was "silly" (quoting the deleted page page), I can't exactly read the original technique description, so I'll just have to go off of what I can read about it here.

Being able to remove any and all seals, without knowing the seal formula, at first glance does seem a bit overpowered. As Koji and company have stated in their own way, that pretty much negates the usage of fuinjutsu against you, unless they were to seal off your chakra or knock you the heck out, which a fuinjutsu dependent character would have quite the trouble doing.

Usage

All of this led to the creation of 'The Skeleton Key', a technique that allows the user to user to 'unlock' any Fuinjutsu that it comes to understand without any repercussions, even if usually tampering with the seal would cause instant death to those with the seal upon them. The way that this technique works is that by taking the users index fingers and thumbs and making an 'invisible' rectangle around the targeted seal which creates an invisible grid. This grid allows the caster to read and completely analyse the making of the seal, the mechanics, and how to undo the seal without activating whatever the effect of it may be.

How long it takes to undo the seal and break it's 'code' depends on how complex the seal is, though not a lot would prove a challenge to this seal, and those that do all fall within time, no matter how hard the code may be. After understand the way that the seal works, black liquid slips from the caster's fingertips. This liquid is made to mimic the 'ink' that each and every Fuinjutsu is made of, allowing it to 'fill' other seals as though they were some type of mold. Once this process is complete, the 'ink' that comes from the fingertips of the user can identify any other seals in the area that have been created by the same person, as though able to sense them due to the chakra.

From there it can then create 'grids' around each of the seals that the ink spreads to, allowing the process to continue. Whether there are more than one seal or not, the next step is the same. From this, the caster undoes the seal within a split moment, if that. As the Fuinjutsu is broken, it turns into a real liquid and slips off of the surface it was on and smearing as though it was also real ink. This 'unlocks' the Fuinjutsu for the first time, the technique able to instantly break the seal upon contact, understand the mold and mechanics as though a key and a keyhole.

But then, I read the quote placed regarding the Skeleton Key technique, which I presume is what we are talking about here, and I find it to be more reasonable than originally proposed.

To put it as an equation, it works similarly to Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Demonic_Illusion:_Mirror_Heaven_and_Earth_Change

without the capability of reversing the fuinjutsu on the original caster instantly. It may, by subtext, grant the Skelteon Key user the ability to perform the fuinjutsu, but that is not explicitly stated, and most of the issue is over him being able to remove the seal rather than actually copy it.

Additionally, the time that it takes to remove the seal depends on the complexity of the seal; it does not become instant removal until after the technique is understood, the black liquid seeps out, etc. Attempts at re-applying said fuinjutsu would be pointless once unlocked the first time.

The only thing that is not specified is how long decryption could take; with my attempt at an example on comparable level of negating an entire class of jutsu, a skilled genjutsu Uchiha with the sharingan three tomoe can decrypt and reverse almost instantly. Unlike what so many folks would claim, it does take a genuine skill in genjutsu to use this technique. The sharingan does not instantly grant the ability to read through genjutsu, though like any good tool it is highly effective in allowing the user to see through it. It is not infallible though if the Uchiha is not very skilled in genjutsu, and is much more ninjutsu focused.

So the way I see it is, the technique itself is not all that OP; specifying the time it takes to decrypt would be very helpful. The potentially short time it takes to decrypt is the only thing that could make this completely OP by SL standards.

 And honestly, The Preta Path negates fuinjutsu usage in almost the same right, being able to absorb the chakra from the seal, though I am not sure if one can use that method on oneself.

[AkiraTheLegendaryANBU]

1st off: Haz, just cause everyone is walking around with stupid jutsu does not mean you should do the same. I'd expect you hold yourself to a higher standard so as to not do that because you wouldn't need to. Point being that just cause everyone punches babies does not mean you should join in and punch babies too. >_>; If we want to critique other people's moves, I'm down for that. This thread is primarily aimed at 1 move in particular tho so Id like to stay on topic, get this settled, and then move on to other jutsu that have problems. (Lookin at you Rinnegan. >_>; )

2nd: I do not in any way shape or form condone Yumei's response to this thread. Perhaps I've forgotten the rules of the NP wiki but last I checked it was just supposed to be a site where you post your characters and information about them. Not to have them edited or deleted by others on said website. But perhaps cause it's Yumei he's just allowed to do that. >_>;

3rd: I'm not sure why, but for some reason it seems that my post was just read as a "Too OP QQ please ban" post. So here I'd like to properly articulate my thoughts on the technique and my problem with it and how I came to said conclusion. Haz your technique is not OP when YOU are using it, and here's why. All your technique does is what any other seal practitioner can do on their own or with a friend... even faster then your technique as it was described above in earlier posts. That is unless it is actually as fast as unlocking a door as described in the last sentence, but the rest of the description describes an intricate process of analysis and ink filling beforehand. Now if your character is a master of seals, then he should already be able to tell what a seal does JUST by examining it's formula. Or am I getting this wrong and I can suddenly start drawing seals that look like smiley faces on people and they can do whatever the hell I say they do? Cause I feel like the ONLY non-sensical seal formula are specifically the Curse Mark juinjutsus. Mostly just cause they're supposed to look neat and be distinguishable from one another, kind of like how Susanoo come in different flavors colors..

So with that in mind you shouldn't need the Skeleton Key to decrypt what seals do, you should just be able to do it by examining it yourself and figuring out hows the parts of the seal naturally come together to create certain effects. So already the analysis part is pointless. Now last I checked seals could be modified or removed entirely based upon how Orochimaru & Jiraiya messed with Naruto's seal and by virtue of the fact that Naruto pretty much undid his own seal and remade it with Kurama. So then why do you need the Skeleton Key to erase seals if you can just do that yourself too so long as you know what you're doing, which you should seeing as you're a seal master. As for preventing the seal from effecting you, that could probably be done by isolating it's influence or getting a friend or ninja animal to remove it for you.

So then when we take all that into account the Skeleton Key just kind of looks silly and pointless, like it's only purpose is to look and sound cool. So now you're probably asking me why this technique is so OP if it's completely redundant right? Well it's by virtue of the move's inherit nature. It's a jutsu that's made to just do it all for you. There's no real point in analyzing the seal if all it needs to do is freeze it before making it melt off you. The problem I have with the technique is not that it removes seals, which any seal user should know how to do in the first place, but the fact that the jutsu just does all the work for you. Imagine if this technique was taught to an academy student or genin rank ninja, they wouldn't have to ever learn or study seals and could just use the Skeleton Key whenever they have a problem with seals. It does almost everything a seal user can do, just on auto-pilot. And that's not just a problem because it's redundant for you to have/use but the fact that your character being a seal master would most likely not even want to use the Skeleton Key Technique to begin with. Reason being that if you're a seal specialist, chances are good you just love messing around with seals. Whether it be making them, modifying them, experimenting with them, reading up on them, etc. you'll probably have some inkling of obsession for the craft in question. So then why would your character EVER want to remove seals on easy mode. It would completely ruin any prospect of challenge or fun your character would have trying to work it out themselves. It's not a move for seal users, it's a move for non-seal users to beat seal users. That's the problem I have with it. I just don't understand why you would even bother making a move like this for your character, beyond the fact that it sounds cool both in name and practice. If anything I'd expect you break the Skeleton Key into 2 separate moves. 1 that prevents it's activation and another to remove the seal via katon nature to make the ink liquefy and drip off you. But then we run into the problem with the latter jutsu where it's one technique removes all seals issue, but I digress. The Skeleton Key is just an all-in-one seal remover. So when I say the technique is OP it's because it just seems completely redundant to me and just offers ANYONE the chance to remove seals like a pro without having done as much studying or hardwork as an actual seal user. But that's assuming anyone else can learn this technique or steals it via Sharingan, Human Path, etc. It just seems like a really bad can of worms to open that could have disastrous effects if not properly contained, and you already being a seal master and having this move just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. So it sounds like it's a redundant skill for masters, and an amazing countermeasure for those who don't study seals.

So I'd really like to know what the purpose of this technique was? Cause I realize I'm probably off on some points since I'm not a "seal master" like the rest of you, but I at least have a passing knowledge of the topic. So feel free to correct me on any of them. Cause I'd really like to know what this technique actually offers your character and what the point was.

[Suishou Koji]

If any of you want to know what the Skeleton key does, read Kayenta's post. She copied the information from the page before it was deleted. Just making that side note.

Very well said, Akira.

[Eric]

I cannot speak for why Haz would benefit solely from his character's standpoint, but I can imagine the less than redundant nature of the technique from what I've been given.

...So it sounds like it's a redundant skill for masters, and an amazing countermeasure for those who don't study seals.

Notice that Orochimaru and Jiraiya both tampered with Naruto's seal; they did not completely remove it. The basic rules of fuinjutsu allow you to layer fuinjutsu, and have the ability to create an imbalance and interrupt the function of certain layers by adding odd atop of even and vice versa.

Dismantling and removing fuinjutsu completely (especially an inactive one) takes more effort, as even Obito had to wait until Kushina's seal had weakened before he could finish it off and release the Nine-tails in preparation for that attack.

Typically when fuinjutsu and juinjutsu are removed, they are either weakened and rendered useless, or they are "unlocked" and broken by a counter technique, usually the same name just with "release" at the end of it.

A fuinjutsu designed to be able to adapt to the nature of any fuinjutsu, without triggering it and without being exposed to potential counter-measures in place is something that would take a fuinjutsu expert, specialist, master, etc. in order to create in the first place.

Further usage of it would likely require a less advanced understanding of fuinjutsu, but a counter-fuinjutsu that is as malleable as this would still require a level of expertise in the field. This is because, as earlier discussed, most fuinjutsu in the canon (and even in SL) have a direct counterpart that unlocks that fuinjutsu and no others.

In perspective, a key to a door usually fits one lock. However, it would take a great amount of skill to create a key that, upon activation, can fit any lock and open it. Considering you are not talking about picking the lock, as that might trigger a defense mechanism, the usage of the key would be easier than trying to re-create it, even with basic instructions, due to the complexity of such a fuinjutsu. So, while the worry that less than expert fuinjutsu users can undo expert fuinjutsu users' fuinjutsu is valid, it is not reasonable that a novice or even casual practiioner would be able to perform this technique.

To bring things back onto point, a regular fuinjutsu master would most likley have to trigger the fuinjutsu or juinjutsu (or at least have it active) in order to dismantle it. With this technique, not only does the user not have to do that, but it also instantly breaks the fuin/juinjutsu subsequent times that it is encountered, far faster than manually repeating the process of breaking the seal yet again.

In short, it is a tool to make it easier to do something that normally would be done manaully. Like a computer doing pre-calculus.

[UettoSenju]

So let me see this guy having a jutsu that can bypass Fuinjutsu is to OP but Sharigan, Bayakugan, Tailed Beast, ect. being able to insta break Genjutsu is not?

Really, I see nothing wrong here. I didn't read this all but meh. I think that a tech of the sorts is okay. So long as he has to form a hand seal, focus chakra to the fuinjutsu, and place some effort to breaking it.

I could see how some may not like the idea of it just instantly breaking fuinjutsu on its own but I can very well see how this tech could be worked into a very legit jutsu.

[Sabumaru]

So let me see this guy having a jutsu that can bypass Fuinjutsu is to OP but Sharigan, Bayakugan, Tailed Beast, ect. being able to insta break Genjutsu is not?

Really, I see nothing wrong here. I didn't read this all but meh. I think that a tech of the sorts is okay. So long as he has to form a hand seal, focus chakra to the fuinjutsu, and place some effort to breaking it.

I could see how some may not like the idea of it just instantly breaking fuinjutsu on its own but I can very well see how this tech could be worked into a very legit jutsu.

Then can I have a sword technique that cuts all ninjutsu in half?

[Eric]

So let me see this guy having a jutsu that can bypass Fuinjutsu is to OP but Sharigan, Bayakugan, Tailed Beast, ect. being able to insta break Genjutsu is not?

Really, I see nothing wrong here. I didn't read this all but meh. I think that a tech of the sorts is okay. So long as he has to form a hand seal, focus chakra to the fuinjutsu, and place some effort to breaking it.

I could see how some may not like the idea of it just instantly breaking fuinjutsu on its own but I can very well see how this tech could be worked into a very legit jutsu.

Then can I have a sword technique that cuts all ninjutsu in half?

The Great Sword of the Mist already does that, though if you put some Preta seals on a sword you might could get away with it. 

All jokes aside, a custom sword that can cut ninjutsu in half with or without absorbing the chakra would probably be acceptable to a good many RPers.

[Hazama]

Is anyone against closing this thread? I mean, really, the majority seems to be fine with the technique so long as it takes time to use on seals that are much more complicated, which is does/did.

I've also yet to hear it's godmod except for one butthurt person and his partner on crime.

So, unless further points are made, I think I'm free to keep using my technique? And we can move on with our lives?

[Ѕhadow]

Going to have Kamui lock this since Kayenta is too baised to. AJ we need you! <3