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[Bocchiere]

Considering the effect of Onoki having a meteor dropped on him was,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buHv1EvUHj0&feature=kp

compared to what actually should have happened. Like I've said Hazama's post is fine. Just need to get some Kiri people in here so they can agree and go post.

[Isaribi]

Y'all are dense.
You keep bringing it back to something completely irrelevant; a concussion.
I'm not talking about a CONCUSSION, I'm talking about concussive damage.

As for the KOH issue, we need to hear from Dart. How that'll go, I don't know. I don't know anythin' about chemicals and what not beyond what Wikipedia can tell me.

We need a judge. That much is certain. We need to figure out several things;

a) Should Haz be able to summon the Mazo at all?
b) Should Haz be able to ignore damage to the extent that he did?
c) Should Haz be able to recover (recover as in, not healing, but gathering himself and assessing his situation, essentially) from being blown about as he was in such a way as to be able to then summon the Mazo, fly around for a bit, and fire some chakra lightning blasts?

I'm sure I'm missing other issues, but a judge is required for these things. I still stand by my argument that the armor he is wearing would make CONCUSSIVE DAMAGE TO HIS BODY worse than if he weren't wearing it, and that even as a Jashin, there should be a time frame which he should have to heal from this wound.

With how many Jashin there are running around, rules that aren't a load of manure really should be written for you all. That should be the next thing SL forum should take care of after finding a judge for this fight in Kiri.

[Trev]

Y'all are dense.
You keep bringing it back to something completely irrelevant; a concussion.
I'm not talking about a CONCUSSION, I'm talking about concussive damage.

As for the KOH issue, we need to hear from Dart. How that'll go, I don't know. I don't know anythin' about chemicals and what not beyond what Wikipedia can tell me.

We need a judge. That much is certain. We need to figure out several things;

a) Should Haz be able to summon the Mazo at all?
b) Should Haz be able to ignore damage to the extent that he did?
c) Should Haz be able to recover (recover as in, not healing, but gathering himself and assessing his situation, essentially) from being blown about as he was in such a way as to be able to then summon the Mazo, fly around for a bit, and fire some chakra lightning blasts?

I'm sure I'm missing other issues, but a judge is required for these things. I still stand by my argument that the armor he is wearing would make CONCUSSIVE DAMAGE TO HIS BODY worse than if he weren't wearing it, and that even as a Jashin, there should be a time frame which he should have to heal from this wound.

With how many Jashin there are running around, rules that aren't a load of manure really should be written for you all. That should be the next thing SL forum should take care of after finding a judge for this fight in Kiri.

Please refrain from using that word, it isn't flattering and is being used in an insulting manner. So I politely ask you to refrain from it.

I'm aware of what you're talking about, but I think Shadow covered that well with his numerous examples (Not all head shots). In my opinion it's unreasonable, though I do agree he should at least be stunned, if not dazzled and not make a one second recovery.

As for the second bold, I agree. That's how these things should be handled. Forum and ooc posts very rarely solve anything and just further the dislike between players. Judges eliminate such things from occurring.

[Bocchiere]

Concussive damage to his head was the only argument you had since concussive damage to the rest of his organs wouldn't affect anything. He's fine with a hole in his heart but not a bruised one?

[Shadowfire]

I honestly think this entire situation is getting out of hand...

I do agree with Isa, though. There really do need to be rules for jashinism, just like the Edo Tensei... Everybody is picking up this jashinism thing as a major cop out so they do't have to think beyond the realm of "oh I got hit? Oh well i'll just keep swinging..." I mean, I've battled those who claim that genjutsu doesn't affect a jashinist merely because one can simply eliminate the need for the brain in a fight and have the body focus on instinct... It's pure BS. Role-play is supposed to be a challenge when facing superior opponents. With the Edo Tensei, and Jashinism in respect one could be utterly invincible if they say that just because they are a jashinist the time for there ability to heal with the Edo Tensei Rules is negated, do you know what I mean?

Furthermore, can Haz still be a jashinist? I believe he said he morphed into another body, or something along those rides. Without sending that body through the same procedures, (which I assume he did not and if he did, can anyone second it?) how can he claim this new body has the powers of his original jashinism host? Etc, etc.

[Bocchiere]

Here is the list of "everybody".
Bocchiere
Hazama
KumaAburame

I claimed Jashinistic immortality and haven't given it to anyone else. Those are the only people that still rp here, so feel free to void anyone else claiming it.

Yeah I don't know why we'd go out on a limb and say Haz used the jutsu in the same way it is described to be used canonically.

"After taking over another body, Orochimaru modifies it to suit his theme of snakes, in order to increase his survival capabilities, such as stretching and bending his body, reconnecting any severed parts, and shedding his skin to heal injuries. This ensures that if Orochimaru cannot transfer body within the three years' time, he can allow it to greatly heal and evade attacks, rendering him virtually immortal; Sasuke refers this as the "Power of the White Snake" (白蛇の力, Shirohebi no Chikara).[2] Orochimaru also alters the face of his host body to look like his original form."

If Haz is claiming to have changed his new body then he did, there would be nothing stopping him from doing so. I'm sick of this hypocritical behavior from Kiri nin. Isa freakin wanted to see comment lines from Saejima taking Tomi's heart and training with Fuuton and that happened 3 YEARS AGO.

No guys, we did not save these rp's because there is no reason to. I wouldn't care if when I asked you guys anything I didn't get completely stonewalled. We need a freakin 3 year resume of everything we've ever rp'd doing but you, Shadow, go, "Oh yeah I'm an Edo Tensei zombie, by the way. Oh, who revived me? I'm not telling you anything. Did we even sacrifice another player? Guess who has two middle fingers and isn't telling you jack."

So that is done. If you want to ask if something is god mod fine. But I am done fielding the, "Where were you rping on the night of February 8th, 2010?" line of questioning. It is pointless to question the content of solo rp's. You don't HAVE to rp every single thing that is done when you are alone. You know what? When Saejima was made something like 5 years ago, he was never rp'd being given Jiongu, he just already had it, wanna void my character because of that?

Yeah I think from now on every post should be accompanied by the saved comment lines of you learning of and practicing all the actions you're taking in them. Including things like being taught to talk and walk like a baby.

[Ѕhadow]

I claim on Shadow and still do to this day; (Camel anybody who says I don't) ALL techs that Orochimaru has. I've used them all, I know how they work. I helped Hazama when he was going down that road. He has the body legit. M'kay. If you have anymore questions concerning his transfer to a new body message me. Mkay, good.

Bocc has jashin so continue with him.

[Eric]

...Yeah I think from now on every post should be accompanied by the saved comment lines of you learning of and practicing all the actions you're taking in them. Including things like being taught to talk and walk like a baby.

I honestly think this entire situation is getting out of hand...

I do agree with Isa, though. There really do need to be rules for jashinism, just like the Edo Tensei... Everybody is picking up this jashinism thing as a major cop out so they do't have to think beyond the realm of "oh I got hit? Oh well i'll just keep swinging..."

I mean, I've battled those who claim that genjutsu doesn't affect a jashinist merely because one can simply eliminate the need for the brain in a fight and have the body focus on instinct... It's pure BS. Role-play is supposed to be a challenge when facing superior opponents. With the Edo Tensei, and Jashinism in respect one could be utterly invincible if they say that just because they are a jashinist the time for there ability to heal with the Edo Tensei Rules is negated, do you know what I mean?

Furthermore, can Haz still be a jashinist? I believe he said he morphed into another body, or something along those rides. Without sending that body through the same procedures, (which I assume he did not and if he did, can anyone second it?) how can he claim this new body has the powers of his original jashinism host? Etc, etc.

I understand the interest in limiting the ability to combine jashinist immortality with other regenerative perks (which is limited since jashinist immortality is kind of the trump as far as avoiding fatalities). But no, jashinists are not immune to genjutsu, not as long as they function.

Since they cannot off their brains (it would do them no good to stab themselves in the head) then a jashinist (with no other perks like sharingan) would be incredibly vulnerable to continuous genjutsu. However, genjutsu is so rare, someone might actually have fooled some sucker (no offense in case you were that sucker) into thinking that jashinist immortality grants immunity to genjutsu.

That's more wrong than saying ssharingan provides immunity to genjutsu; it does not, and in fact, against another Uchiha, would actually be a very different kind of fight nowadays.

In regards to the Jashin experimentation, it is safe to assume that, like Orochimaru, after body hopping, Hazama would restore his previous body's capabilities (if possible) to the new one. After all, the Jashin religion's secret techniques are similar to shadow imitation; one does not forget them simply upon switching bodies/vessels, though they might lose proficiency or usage that can later be restored.

Without knowing the exact rituals and all canon-wise, it is impossible to use the canon to determine if the immortality trait is easily transferable. So, it would fall to the users and how they RP/design it, which will obviously bring us back to the original point that it was transferred upon body switching.

If anything, this discussion has come down to this: Neither side is willing to back down, and based on the fact that this discussion is still going, I am going to have to guess that a ruling was not made. So really, the most pertinent question is, who is the judge going to be? I believe Taraka's name came up, but I'm sure there are plenty of other options.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

 Alright, before this gets entirely out of hand I'm going to make it clear to everyone here that I was supposed to be brought in here as a final judge on this.  I am not involved in this Kiri fight and I do not intend to become involved so I am basing this as a neutral party as I do have friends fighting on both sides; however, before taking this all to heart let me make this first VERY clear. While I may be both a game master and moderator, we are not to dictate how RP is done on this site.  Everyone has their own style of it so I'm basing this judgement as a veteran to the site. This has nothing to do with the fact I'm listed as GM since everyone has their own style and I know it's argued often for a clear set of RP rules, but once again, we do not dictate that.

Given the OOC stuff in Kiri is getting out of hand, I'm going to go over the contested post and reasoning behind my opinion on it as I was asked to judge it from both Isa and Bocc alike.

------------------

We need a judge. That much is certain. We need to figure out several things;

a) Should Haz be able to summon the Mazo at all?
b) Should Haz be able to ignore damage to the extent that he did?
c) Should Haz be able to recover (recover as in, not healing, but gathering himself and assessing his situation, essentially) from being blown about as he was in such a way as to be able to then summon the Mazo, fly around for a bit, and fire some chakra lightning blasts?

First off to address if he should be able to summon Mazo:
 Hazama used Living Corpse Reincarnation from the body of The Demoℵ Wℌo ℑs ♕ηεεℒ. Given the body switch he used holds both the maxed out Uchiha and Senju abilities: Yes. Mazo would be viable as something he would be able to summon; however, I would say at a price. Given a deceased soul is bound to a living person, I think summoning Mazo would come at a larger toll on Hazama's host body. While a host body would rot over time just like it did to Orochimaru over the years, I think it would come down more harshly on a body of someone summoning something something much more  powerful like the Mazo. Therefore, his host body would probably rot at an accelerated rate if using such an ability as the Mazo because the way the actual TYPE of summon it would be and the amount of energy it would take to do so. Though, it is most certainly plausible he would be able too; however, Hazama if you do this your body is going to take a much more powerful toll since it is a hosted body. So I'd say rather then years you may be looking at months. I understand you have reincarnation so for sake of RP and fairness, if this is summoned it'll take a huge toll on your host body. I do find it a fair post in this essence.  Which, I know can be changed later by finding a new host. Just know if you do this now, it'll effect the body big time. I see this as a fair plausible solution to actually using Gedo Mazo 

B) Should Hazama ignore the damage to the extent that he did?
   With this, I can actually say I had no qualm about the way he handled his attack.  As we've seen from the Kaguya bloodline, the bone's will bolster alot of pressure from an attack. So even if he was hit, I feel he'd be able to take it. He did get launched into a building and acknowledge he was hit. I'm entirely okay with how this was done. As far as a "concussion" goes to a Kaguya, let's be realistic here. We have seen Naruto and Sasuke fight and if you paid attention to Kimmimaro's battes as well, I cannot see a concussion happening. Also, let's also add the element of Jashinism. Internal organs, or brain issues here, I'm not seeing him being effected by this either. I mean, look at Hidan. He did get launched, so I have no problem with this as it was something he acknowledged. He didn't completely blow it off.

C) Should Haz be able to recover (recover as in, not healing, but gathering himself and assessing his situation, essentially) from being blown about as he was in such a way as to be able to then summon the Mazo, fly around for a bit, and fire some chakra lightning blasts?

  Given he was aware of what was going on and been launched in said direction to soften the blow and with the Kaguya armor, I'm sure he would of had to at least been thinking of a way to counteract regardless. If you're in battle you're relying on instinct and trying to predict the moves of your opponent. Though, don't take that as in you know exactly what's going to happen next.  Given he was blown up from an attack, the recovery was fine and I am okay with that. Also, as I said Gedo Mazo was okay, I see that as fair; however, as I addressed in the first question. Gedo Mazo WILL take a huge toll on the body. So that needs to be considered. He would have to counter and he chose to use this as his method. Lets say you were in this siuation, you're flying in the air and open for an attack. You would need to be thinking of what you'd do next or you're gonna suffer something else on the way down or while you're airborn.


My final say in the whole matter here is: I'm actually going to call for Hazama to make a repost on it. As it also needs done regardless given the actual fact Kiri is flooded with OOC and if you want to continue your battle. Hazama, I am okay with your recover, with how you handled the damage, and the fact you have the proper resets of both Senju and Uchiha, Gedo Mazo is completely plausible; however, I'm going to make this clear right now. If you want to decide to use Gedo Mazo, give you are a soul bound to a living vessel from a reincarnation it WILL take a huge toll on your body and cause your host body at an accelerated rate given the fact you would wind up deteriorating. I do know you're a jashinist; however, you're still facing the fact you are simply using this body as a host body. If you are going to keep Gedo Mazo in play for it, you WILL need to find a new host later due to the fact it will cause this vessel Hazama is in to rot faster.  Jashinism or not. Also, explain it all so the fight can be picked up and continued from there.  So it is your call to use the mazo and accept the fact you will have it take a toll on your body or you can redo this post. I have no issue with how you made your recovery given jashinisim and the Kaugya blood.

That is my say on the matter from a neutral standpoint.

[Bocchiere]

Finally!

[Ѕhadow]

I'd like to make a few points on the 'toll of using the mazo'

The amount of time the body 'weakens' depends on the strength of the body itself. Why else would orochimaru look for such power as the Uchiha brothers or the kaguya boy.
"
Presumably, if he had a proper container, he could stay in the host for a full lifetime. The fact that he wanted to prepare Sasuke Uchiha and Kimimaro for the transfer before performing it reinforces this."


"Orochimaru can only perform this technique once every three years. It also seems that when the three years are almost over, he is forced to move into another host, as the previous one begins to weaken and reject him."

He can preform it every 3 years AS NEEDED. If the body is still fine after three years then he does not need a transfer.

"Apparently if the host of these souls' chakra level falls enough it is possible for them to resurface in material form."

If the body taken hold of is strong and healthy then the amount of time that the user can use the body is increased based on what I said, the chakra level of the user and health before transfer. Neel is a max reset body. Therefor more than enough to handle summoning the gedo I'd think.

[Bocchiere]

I agree completely, I just don't care.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

I understand Neel is a max reset body. He's going to be able to handle summoning Gedo, sure. Though, given a dead soul is being bound to a live soul, using Gedo Mazo would at least cause some type of toll on the body. I have no problem with him summoning it, but I'd say it at least come at SOME sort of price. Having a deceased soul that is bounded to a living vessel; makes it  almost impossible to use certain techniques when that vessel your bounded to in the world of the living is your anchor to the world. In this case Gedo Mazo seemed a technique that could fall under this; however, I have no problem with it being plausible or him summoning it.

 Just there is going to be some type of price for it in fairness and for the sake of both parties even. If anything, I'm feeling for this to actually be plausible SOMETHING is going to happen to his host body. I.e. it would rot at an accelerated rate or he's going to need to take time post battle to actually repair damages on the body in RP. Just for the sake of it all.  At least REPAIR damages from using it. I.e. 
in order to increase his survival capabilities, such as stretching and bending his body, reconnecting any severed parts, and shedding his skin to heal injuries.
 Just for something at least for the aspect of it being used I feel he's at least going to take some type of toll on it. 

Either, way I think Hazama is okay using it. Just for the sake of an even ground for both parties and as the neutral party. There WILL be a toll on using it.

You asked me to judge. THAT is your answer.



Also, either way. Hazama at least repost it so we don't have to stare at pages upon pages of OOC and you guys can actually get back to that battle you guys wanted to do so much.

[Ѕhadow]

I don't disagree with a toll just I know people will come on here saying he'll be dead in 10 mins or some other bs thing. I needed to show evidence that he WILL continue to live many, many years after this. Even if it takes 10 years off his lifespan.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

I don't disagree with a toll just I know people will come on here saying he'll be dead in 10 mins or some other bs thing. I needed to show evidence that he WILL continue to live many, many years after this. Even if it takes 10 years off his lifespan.

 I'm fine with this. Just he's going to take a toll if he's using Gedo Mazo and he will need time post battle to at least spend time repairing so he can't jump into an assault right after.
 Otherwise, I'm okay with this and the post stands and how he took his damages and everything. Just make a repost to make it current and know if you decide you DO want to use Mazo, you're going to be effected by a toll on your body Hazama. SO you can't go into one big ass battle literally right after this as it will take TIME. Time to heal. Time to repair. Ect.

That's my final say.