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[Kobayashi Toshiro]

Genjutsu use in sl.

     Players often rely on ninjutsu and kg to do most of the fighting but as far as i have experienced players don't use genjutsu except with the Sharingan. Why might that be? Is describing it too difficult? Afraid you're opponent will break it instantly before you can directly attack them? (As quickly as it happens in SL Is realistically god modding. In the manga/anime Sasuke was caught in in a genjutsu used by C allowing the Raikage and Darui to step in before he could break it or escape. He was saved by his counterparts not by his own skill.)

     Id like to make a suggestion for more popular use of established genjutsu.

     Id like to suggest that the player in RL must have direct knowledge of anime/manga used genjutsu and be able to distinguish such a technique without being explicitly told it is genjutsu. Because a genjutsu is supposed to appear as being real or preparation for ninjutsu while actually being an illusion that must be realized. All genjutsu would have to be from the manga/anime.

     Unless the opposing player has real knowledge of the genjutsu in use without being told that it is a genjutsu the genjutsu used should succeed. This is a common practice for chakra natured ninjutsu and the strategic use of tools where a technique is described without its name being listed. An astute player will be able to associate that jutsu with one from the manga/anime and anticipate the strategy of the opponent of a layered tool attack because of its similarity to one in the manga/anime.

     Why not for genjutsu?

[Trev]

Actually Sasuke saved himself and Jugo.
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/461/6

Anyway, while I agree with you, it simply won't happen. Genjutsu is rarely used, because most of the people on SL have the sharingan and will simply break out of it/reverse it. The rest of SL usually claims to figure it out and perform the magical 'kai' to break out of it no matter what.

The only way to do it, is to be somewhat sneaky with it and even this is extremely difficult to do. For example, my fight with Bocc I caught him in ephemeral. However I never directly stated I was using it, more so hinted to it. We got a judge and he ruled in Bocc's favor. He stated he didn't really want to, but SL rp dictates you have to directly state it somewhere, and of course when you do this, people will BS there way out of it.

In conclusion people don't use genjutsu because:
Most people can detect/break out of it
You usually have to outright say you're using the genjutsu eliminating most sneaky tactics.

[Kobayashi Toshiro]

Yes Sasuke broke the genjutsu but he wasn't able to escape the subsequent attack on his own.

We are of the same mind here Trev! Thats exactly why im asking that players be knowlegible of genjutsu so they can break it legitimately without having to be explicitly told. Besides, breaking the genjutsu is one thing but being able to escape the followup is a different story. Evidence from Sasuke's inability to save himself from the followup attack.

Additionally if Kakashi in manga #142 dropped to his knee after becoming weak from a genjutsu then even the best of us would realistically be vulnerable to a followup attack!

[Eric]

Jestar has used genjustsu before in the past against a certain Rinnegan user; it was mostly a distraction, but even with the sharingan, you do not automatically escape the genjutsu. There is a process for that, a process which may eat up one your move turns.

Genjutsu also has usage when it is deployed beyond the target's senses to reverse it. Rita's singing technique for example, or the senjutsu genjutsu deployed by the toads. They are sound, I get that, but they are examples of genjutsu that have their effects before an appropriate reaction is deployed, or are constantly ongoing.

Using genjutsu in a 1v1 fight is incredibly difficult, as it is hard to capitalize on the moment or two in which the opponent is releasing or trying to figure out the genjutsu. As in the series, it takes some serious intelligence/tact to not just deploy genjutsu, but for it to work proplerly and do its job.

I am not saying non-genjutsu userss are not bright, but genjutsu in itself is a reserved art even in the series. Even Jiraiya could not perform genjutsu very well/ at all.

[Bocchiere]

The flip side of this is that ever since Ephemeral became a thing Genjutsu became the easiest thing ever to abuse. "I take a step forward, seeing this would put you in a Genjutsu." Why even move? Just say if someone looks at you they're put in a Genjutsu. I like it, they're cool to use. But it is just so so so SO easy to abuse.

[Trev]

Well most genjutsu I believe you just perform kata and have your opponent in the jutsu range and you've caught them. So catching someone in genjutsu is really easy compared to most techniques.

Like Eric said, genjutsu is reversible. Most don't try on SL, cause people are gonna use a dojutsu or sensing to figure it out, and literally the same turn will break it. Then you'll go to complain fest with the judge where the scenario will literally be my genjutsu strength v. their resistance. Not going to work out.

The only way you could do it, is to be sneaky, but at some point you're going have to state what technique you are using, making this very difficult to pull off.

[Eric]

The flip side of this is that ever since Ephemeral became a thing Genjutsu became the easiest thing ever to abuse. "I take a step forward, seeing this would put you in a Genjutsu." Why even move? Just say if someone looks at you they're put in a Genjutsu. I like it, they're cool to use. But it is just so so so SO easy to abuse.

Genjutsu can be triggered via senses, such as sound and sight; if your ears can get you into trouble, then your eyes can also. Same with smell, taste, etc.

As Trev and myself have put it, it is difficult to use and abuse because of all the dojutsu running around. Rinnegan does not have the same defense against genjutsu that sharingan does, not to my knowledge anyways.

[Trev]

Like I said too Eric, even without dojutsu, almost everyone on SL will claim to detect it and break out of it with the magical 'kai'. This further increases the difficulty, as like I said if you take it to a judge it becomes a character's genjutsu strength v. resistance which is hard to judge.

[Eric]

Like I said too Eric, even without dojutsu, almost everyone on SL will claim to detect it and break out of it with the magical 'kai'. This further increases the difficulty, as like I said if you take it to a judge it becomes a character's genjutsu strength v. resistance which is hard to judge.

Hm, that's where the line gets tricky. Without dojutsu, reversing the genjutsu becomes a null issue; if they release it via 'kia' or via pain, then that not only requires movement, but also requires them to take an action out of their turn. If you use genjutsu while your opponent is in the middle of an action, for example, or at the same time as they would need to react to another attack, then you can be surprised how much of a difference that 'kai' necessity really is.

That requires either clones or at least one ally for that example of practical genjutsu usage. When every second counts, genjutsu can be the deciding factor between reacting immediately and reacting a second too late.

[Shadowfire]

It is easy to abuse, but often underused, yes....

I like using genjutsu, and when people are playing, I often call them out on subsequent reactions they as a character cannot know about..... It is hard for people to play in an illusion because most don't like the idea. You all remember Akimori? She used to play solid genjutsu taijutsu in her character, and was one of the best rpers because she knew how to play them...

[Sabumaru]

From just about everything I've read here the mutual consensus seems to be the problem with Genjutsu is what I like to call "soft metagaming". People read your post and then figure out a way that they can find out IC that they're in a genjutsu, and then use Kai. I mean the sharingan is one thing but to just say "Sabu notices the sky is red and the clouds are black and everythings color is reversed and says "oh I'm in a genjutsu" before he breaks it by stopping his chakra flow."
I lost my train of thought so I'm just gonna say a couple things.
1. Naruto knew he was caught by Itachi's genjutsu but couldn't break it. The most likely reason is because of how personal the jutsu was, but it was also said by jiriyia that Naruto sucked at genjutsu. Maybe that was a factor as well.
2. Soft-metagaming is one of the biggest problems genjutsu users face.
3. Genjutsu can be abused immensely.
So how the hell can we make this mess work?

I actually premake each future incarnation of Sabumaru (if you guys didn't notice there have been 28 different incarnations of my character) and my next one was to be a master genjutsu user. So if you guys figure this out let me know.

[Kobayashi Toshiro]

Lil, dont just leae Sabumaru. In order for this discussion to become cannon wothin Sl we need more respectful, relevant discussion, majority sipport and some more input on making this a well thought out, detailed element of SL RP.

[Eric]

From just about everything I've read here the mutual consensus seems to be the problem with Genjutsu is what I like to call "soft metagaming". People read your post and then figure out a way that they can find out IC that they're in a genjutsu, and then use Kai. I mean the sharingan is one thing but to just say "Sabu notices the sky is red and the clouds are black and everythings color is reversed and says "oh I'm in a genjutsu" before he breaks it by stopping his chakra flow."
I lost my train of thought so I'm just gonna say a couple things.
1. Naruto knew he was caught by Itachi's genjutsu but couldn't break it. The most likely reason is because of how personal the jutsu was, but it was also said by jiriyia that Naruto sucked at genjutsu. Maybe that was a factor as well.
2. Soft-metagaming is one of the biggest problems genjutsu users face.
3. Genjutsu can be abused immensely.
So how the hell can we make this mess work?

I actually premake each future incarnation of Sabumaru (if you guys didn't notice there have been 28 different incarnations of my character) and my next one was to be a master genjutsu user. So if you guys figure this out let me know.

Let me start with an earlier comment of mine:

Like I said too Eric, even without dojutsu, almost everyone on SL will claim to detect it and break out of it with the magical 'kai'. This further increases the difficulty, as like I said if you take it to a judge it becomes a character's genjutsu strength v. resistance which is hard to judge.

Hm, that's where the line gets tricky. Without dojutsu, reversing the genjutsu becomes a null issue; if they release it via 'kia' or via pain, then that not only requires movement, but also requires them to take an action out of their turn. If you use genjutsu while your opponent is in the middle of an action, for example, or at the same time as they would need to react to another attack, then you can be surprised how much of a difference that 'kai' necessity really is.

That requires either clones or at least one ally for that example of practical genjutsu usage. When every second counts, genjutsu can be the deciding factor between reacting immediately and reacting a second too late.

Rephrasing it, in order to make genjutsu work, you have to use strategy and have very good timing with your genjutsu, not to mention picking a good choice of genjutsu depending on the fighter. PM Jestar for a fight and he may demonstrate what I mean. Or heck, PM me for a fight and I'll try my best (I would have to use Rita though, since Eric himself doesn't have genjutsu in his arsenal).

[UettoSenju]

I didn't really read all this but I am one who does use genjutsu in my fights. Eric can back me in that as I used it against him when fighting with Tachi and no it wasn't via the Sharigan.

It is a very handy tool to have if you know how to use it.

[Bocchiere]

It can be a bit much in battle when you don't specify what it does. Trev got me in a Genjutsu in our fight like you said, by being subtle about it. I totally did not know I was in a Genjutsu for a few posts, it worked completely. It just so happened that the actions I took still countered what Trev was trying to hide with the Genjutsu, and I feel like you can count the times someone countered Genjutsu without meta gaming on one hand. However Trev then tells me that my posts have actually not been happening, I've been standing there totally out of it, like with Izanami, the whole time.

I think that is a bit much to expect a person to swallow.