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[Ѕhadow]

To give a Tenseigan user the ability to use Senjutsu greatly throws things off balance and they would have to give something up to offset the difference.

Did you just use the word balance when referring to SL? I mean sure technically you can't have all 8 kg at once, but other than that there is no balance at all. The game is completely broken.

[Warren]

To give a Tenseigan user the ability to use Senjutsu greatly throws things off balance and they would have to give something up to offset the difference.

I believe he meant you won't be able to mix the chakra mode and sage mode, but you could still use sage mode on its own.

[Bocchiere]

To give a Tenseigan user the ability to use Senjutsu greatly throws things off balance and they would have to give something up to offset the difference.

I believe he meant you won't be able to mix the chakra mode and sage mode, but you could still use sage mode on its own.

I believe he meant the tenseigan is powered by salami.

[Uchiha Madara]

To give a Tenseigan user the ability to use Senjutsu greatly throws things off balance and they would have to give something up to offset the difference.

Did you just use the word balance when referring to SL? I mean sure technically you can't have all 8 kg at once, but other than that there is no balance at all. The game is completely broken.

I mean in terms of Sage Mode being the antithesis of the Rinnegan, atleast how we treat it. Think about it this way, Shippuden spent an entire arc finding out the weaknesses of Pain and how to bypass the abilities of the Rinnegan. The moment the Doujutsu made center stage, an opposite power was demonstrated by Jiraiya that allowed him to almost put things on equal grounds. Then Naruto, a ninja with no known special skills, aside from Kurama, was able to face the embodiment of each Rinnegan abilities with an even stronger version of Sage Mode. It give him a body that could withstand the heavy blows of Deva Path, chakra that couldn't be absorbed by Preta Path (without deadly consequences), speed and strength to outmaneuver and beat down the various summons of Animal Path, and strong enough ninjutsu to demolish the augmented armor of Asura Path. Leaving a 3 Path advantage over Sage Mode, while the Senjutsu user had the use of Natural Energy that could restore their energy as well as be used as an invisible attack force against all Doujutsu users.

It fell in line with what both Sage Mode and Rinnegan were suppose to represent,  Asura, the son who inherited the Sage's body, and Indra, the son who inherited the Sage's eyes. Equal but opposite forces. If we allow Tenseigan, then it should fall into the category of a mixture of the two, which is what it is suppose to represent. Giving the Doujutsu a bit of both worlds, while not making it an outrageous copy/enhancement of either is the best way to go.

[Warren]

Assuming that's a longass way to say you get similar physical prowess boost as in sage mode, but you can't actually combo it with sage mode, then sure. I did already list no additional boostage like gates, senjutsu or anything in my list of nerfs earlier.

[Kage]

This altar idea sure does seem fun. Not the claiming part, but the part where Hyuugas need to pop out their eyes, insert them into the altar like coins, and receive a new pair for Tenseigan. It's like, they solved the Uchiha problem by making a Doujutsu Vending Machine. Why not call it that instead?

Why do the Uchihas have to be such butts about getting their fancy eye powers?

[Bocchiere]

This altar idea sure does seem fun. Not the claiming part, but the part where Hyuugas need to pop out their eyes, insert them into the altar like coins, and receive a new pair for Tenseigan. It's like, they solved the Uchiha problem by making a Doujutsu Vending Machine. Why not call it that instead?

Why do the Uchihas have to be such butts about getting their fancy eye powers?

I am 110% behind this idea.

[Warren]

Amusingly we can't get much closer to canon than that. Give your own eyes away to power up the altar, get eyes that have already been mutated by the altars power back.

[Eric]

Not sure what you mean with ball kaiten. If its just to spin them around fast, that's not exactly custom cause that falls under the sphere manipulation the shroud itself grants already. If its to try make a kaiten with the chakra making those orbs, if they're nerfed then it'd be just a powered up kaiten with nothing extra really. If anything it'd exhaust your shroud far quicker cause kaiten uses a crapton of chakra as is.

I believe juho soshikens potency comes from it being compressed in the first place, so I don't think it'd work anymore as an aoe thing, if it would even be possible to sync any other chakra with the shroud like that to begin with. Furthermore, fairly sure I listed in nerfs that if you use the shroud, you aren't getting any other body oriented boostage crap.

Though juho soshiken sucks chakra from victims (according to wiki anyway, I don't recall ever seeing said effect in series), I don't really see how exactly would that turn it into a specific anti-all jutsu device, at most it'd deflect projectiles and such if struck with it. It might be possible to make a stronger version still though, as seen with Hinata's version being powered up by Hamura's chakra, though it'd be even more exceedingly difficult to learn.

I've never ever understood this whole jyuken element thing people got going on from the looks of it. All jyuken is, is releasing small pinpoint bursts of chakra to reach inside the body as you strike, aimed at organs and other vitals to maximize damage. There is no way to 'grant' something jyuken, so that alone makes the invincible death laz0r already impossible.

Should be everything. Though as Ichi already said, we could just ban custom moves for it. Lazy but easy route.

1) Kaiten, in SL terms (even in-game) does not require nearly as much chakra as you're implying here. Additionally, I was talking about using the orbs within the kaiten in order to add increased deflection, along with having the option to still fling them out at people nigh at will.

2) Body oriented boosting stuff essentially, under your statement, is everything except Tensaigan. No Byakugan powers, no sage mode, no gates, no Yang release period, etc. That is essentially saying that with this dojutsu, you can only use the powers of the dojutsu, and nothing more. Considering the proposed nerfs, I don't really think that's going to bring it into balance with Rinnegan, which CAN have other body enhancements of the aforementioned state and still keep chucking down meteors.

3) It's not as difficult as you think. Kaiten itself, in SL, hass often been used to attack ninjutsu and either dispel it or redirect it. I have fought a Mist Hyuugan before, so I'm aware that there is currently a meta regarding gentle fist that allows for the application of the right amount and type of chakra in order to counter any chakra-based jutsu out there. While it is somewhat custom, and likely not explained very much to outsiders other than combatants, it is in my mind because it does exist.

Additionally, by making a taijutsu version of Preta Path, you can punch your way through most chakra-based barriers, ninjutsu, etc. because you would be able to absorb/kaiten your way through the techniques.

4) http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gentle_Fist The primary trait of gentle fist is to "surgically" inject their chakra into a targetted area. This stems from the Byakugan's unique eyesight. By including this "surgical insertion" principle into techniques, this allows the user to strike at smaller levels than thier counterparts.

For example, by adding jyuken to the susano'o sword (just because it's a relatively easy example to represent what I'm talking about) you would essentially strike not just with the force of the sword, but using the chakra to attack pinpoint parts of a defense (such as a chakra based one). By using chakra to strike at weakspots easily seeable with the byakugan, the sword not only has great physical strength, but also incredibly precise damage, capable of attacking a tailed beast mode jinchurikii's tissues (connective, nerve, muscle, etc.), organs, and gates/tenketsu in a manner that makes the attack a double edged sword.

If the jinch were to attempt to use a chakra-based defense against it, a strong enough injection of chakra in a specific area will allow the user to cut through it with magnificent ease. Recall, the gentle fist does not necessarily break the skin of a human target, so complete penetration of the outer barrier is not necessary for even marginal success. It's the principle of injecting your chakra in a very specific manner that can be applied to other techniques. Dare I say it, frog kata could use natural energy to strike at tenketsu presuming the user knows gentle fist, frog kata, and has the byakugan (and presuming he is not voided into oblivion cause chakra =/= natural energy, though I think you guys get the idea by now).


And am I the only one who is actually more concerned about Tensaigan/Rinnegan hax? One eye gives you chakra mode, the other gives you the Six Paths. Of course, I'm sure Warren's blanket "no other enhancements" nerf proposition likely covers that.

Amusingly we can't get much closer to canon than that. Give your own eyes away to power up the altar, get eyes that have already been mutated by the altars power back.

Why not just save people the trouble and just give them the dojutsu for free and state that there is a cooldown time before actual usage? Unless I misunderstood and you either require other player hyugans to put their eyes into the altar (and not have those eyes be re-usable), or use it to SL-wise explain what happened to all of the hyugans/byakugan that used to populate the server, that is hardly what could be called a limiting factor. Even Rinnegan is supposed to require the acquisition of a mangekyou sharingan from another player (after of course getting your own) to advance to EMS, then advance that to Rinnegan (whether people follow it or not I guess depends on where you RP).

[Warren]

Uhh, when did you last see a kaiten again? You're flooding chakra out of every tenketsu to create a significantly powerful dome-shaped field, even a genin neji's kaiten took kyuubi-chakra from naruto to overpower. As for spinning the balls around though, as I said that'd fall under their basic manipulation, wouldn't be a custom jutsu really.

Also don't be an ass, you know very well what I meant. Sage mode, senninka, inner gates, raiton no yoroi, other similar elemental armors, hozuki transformations et cetera, the stuff known for significantly boosting your physical prowess. Tenseigan shroud is so major that not only would stacking it with that stuff be plain broken, but illogical/impossible/idiotic/wte too since you'd either suffer a chakra overload as Toneri did if not just crumble from the physical strain.

As for juho soshiken, it in fact is canonly retardedly difficult to master, to the point even a tiny mistake messes everything up. Trying to combine something with it would be even worse, as seen with Naruto going from rasengan to rasen shuriken.

And no, that's not adding jyuken, because as I already said there's no 'jyuken element', no 'jyukenton', to add to anything. All you're doing in your example is just manually striking at a weak or otherwise particular spot you saw with byakugan. Its just a principle, a fighting style. Even so however people for some god forsaken reason don't seem to understand it, because I've legitly seen stuff as nonsensical as a 'jyuken barrier' thats a simple inexplicable field that completely destroys your chakra network if you pass through just because it has 'jyuken added to it'. What's next I wonder, a jyuken wind attack? Jyuuken fire? A jyuken genjutsu?

I didn't specifically state no other doujutsus in nerfs because I thought it fairly obvious, not to mention two-three other people mentioned no mixing tenseigan with any other eye. Could just say that similar to needing two mangekyo for susanoo, you need two byakugan for tenseigan, what with the whole eyes only show their true power when together thing.

If we do altar way of acquisition, it'd be limited fairly easily. Say, altar is kept as a hidden location, not made into a claimed 'item'. Then if someone wants to get access and use it, I'll just GM an RP scenario for them or something, make them actually work for it.

[Eric]

Uhh, when did you last see a kaiten again? You're flooding chakra out of every tenketsu to create a significantly powerful dome-shaped field, even a genin neji's kaiten took kyuubi-chakra from naruto to overpower. As for spinning the balls around though, as I said that'd fall under their basic manipulation, wouldn't be a custom jutsu really.

Also don't be an ass, you know very well what I meant. Sage mode, senninka, inner gates, raiton no yoroi, other similar elemental armors, hozuki transformations et cetera, the stuff known for significantly boosting your physical prowess. Tenseigan shroud is so major that not only would stacking it with that stuff be plain broken, but illogical/impossible/idiotic/wte too since you'd either suffer a chakra overload as Toneri did if not just crumble from the physical strain.

As for juho soshiken, it in fact is canonly retardedly difficult to master, to the point even a tiny mistake messes everything up. Trying to combine something with it would be even worse, as seen with Naruto going from rasengan to rasen shuriken.

And no, that's not adding jyuken, because as I already said there's no 'jyuken element', no 'jyukenton', to add to anything. All you're doing in your example is just manually striking at a weak or otherwise particular spot you saw with byakugan. Its just a principle, a fighting style. Even so however people for some god forsaken reason don't seem to understand it, because I've legitly seen stuff as nonsensical as a 'jyuken barrier' thats a simple inexplicable field that completely destroys your chakra network if you pass through just because it has 'jyuken added to it'. What's next I wonder, a jyuken wind attack? Jyuuken fire? A jyuken genjutsu?

I didn't specifically state no other doujutsus in nerfs because I thought it fairly obvious, not to mention two-three other people mentioned no mixing tenseigan with any other eye. Could just say that similar to needing two mangekyo for susanoo, you need two byakugan for tenseigan, what with the whole eyes only show their true power when together thing.

If we do altar way of acquisition, it'd be limited fairly easily. Say, altar is kept as a hidden location, not made into a claimed 'item'. Then if someone wants to get access and use it, I'll just GM an RP scenario for them or something, make them actually work for it.

First of all, I am not being an ass, I'm simply stating things as I see it. Hozoki transformation can be considered a yang release of sorts (though I think it's classified as water release), that entire category of techniques designed specifically to augment your abilities. You never stated how "significant" was significantly increases, so I presumed it was most everything commonly used under the SL sun, including custom augmentations.  While that may have been wrong to assume, we are talking about SL players here, who will find anything that they can add to this Tensaigan in order to make it the next coming of the Rinnegan, despite any nerfs that are attempted to be tagged onto it. Someone who wants this bad enough and is creative enough will, similar to what I am doing now, look objectively at the powers of this dojutsu and find a way to use it to its most effective state, nerfs or no nerfs.

As I stated though, even if there is a GM for the altar, it's still put eyes in, take new eyes out kind of thing. The only thing that is doing is forcing people to RP with a GM of some sort in order to claim Tensaigan. Not a bad thing per say, but just who is going to GM the altar? I personally think it's an unnecessary hurdle, even for this technique, to have to fetch someone to GM the event for you.

In SL, there is no such thing as canonically difficult to master; yes, you have to have all 4 resets or significant RP training for it to work, but that WILL NOT keep master Hyugans (the only ones able to get Tensaigan mind you) from having it and augmenting it.

Kaiten in-game takes one chakra point. With the amount of chakra people have nowadays, IC, performing one Kaiton is nothing. Neji, while a genin, was able to use Kaiten multiple times in a single fight. Now take a Jounin or a Kage, and honestly, Kaiten is hardly something to bat an eye at for a Tensaigan user-worthy shinobi. The dome can also be circumvented by something moving fast enough, as demonstrate during the fight with the spider-guy, or by the forced stopping of the rotation.

As I also said, there is no "jyuken element", but the principle behind Jyuken can be applied to other techniques. With your example of a "jyuken barrier", the barrier functions by striking at the tenketsu of an approaching target, or simply injecting chakra into the victim's chakra network indiscriminately. Without manual direction from a Byakugan user/master though, that barrier on its own is quite god-mode for the former. For the latter, only someone who knows how to perform the gentle fist would logically be able to make a barrier of similar effects.

Combining two separate techniques into one non-canonically I consider a custom technique, personally speaking. It's fine that you disagree with me on that, but by my definition of a custom technique, using the spinning balls in your kaiten attack intentionally (and not spur of the moment randomness), with precision, and by design, is a custom technique.

Jyuken is manually striking at a weak spot using the byakugan and a certain amount of chakra, applied to a certain location of choice. Therefore, anything that works on a principle similar to jyuken (manually striking at a weak spot using the byakugan and a certain amount of pre-determined chakra) can be considered to be "jyuken inspired" or even "augumented".

[Warren]

I just said I could GM it. Also just what on earth do you want then? ._. First you say not enough limitations on it, then suddenly there's too much.

[Eric]

I just said I could GM it. Also just what on earth do you want then? ._. First you say not enough limitations on it, then suddenly there's too much.

Some of my quotes are somewhat outdated because of  newly released details, but I believe they emphasize "what I want" better than paraphrasing it into a single paragraph.

My answer in the form of quotations:

Do Rinnegan folks lose Mokuton when they power up? No, so why would Tensaigans lose their Kaguya (not eight gates, that is something they wouldn't reset in period) powers then? They could use the ash-killing bones technique in the Tensaigan form, for example (presuming people aren't trying to do that without Hyuga + Kaguya).

According to Narutopedia, Tensaigan is the equal to Rinnegan. Without any further context, this assumes that it allows him to master all chakra natures just like the Rinnegan.

Him using the cloak is the equivalent of the Sage of Six Paths awakening the Rinnegan himself; by using natural energy and going into sage mode, his special chakra allows him to awaken Six Paths Sage Mode. Similar parallel going on over here.

The lack of the ability to use the Six Paths may seem like a downer, but the ability to use yin-yang Kaguya techs, the ability to use yin-yang Hyuga techs (of custom nature of course, essentially rendering all ninjutsu and senjutsu against the user nigh useless) and the special sage mode is more than enough without the additional speed, endurance, and truth seeking bull- I mean balls.

In my opinion, if we have to have a Rinnegan and we can have a tame version of Tensaigan, then I say go for it. I dislike the Rinnegan and Tensaigan as the next guy because it makes it even harder for me to fight in a zone without needing yet another power-up, but Rinnegan is here to stay. It is time for Uchiha-Senju to take a side-bench and actually have a bloodline to compete with them.

As much as that craps over everyone else not of these special bloodlines...



*P.S After taking a jog around my house, I have come to the realization that all this is really going to do is replace Uchiha-Senju with Kaguya-Hyuga... Replacing one master for another.

...There is literally nothing wrong with evening the playing field for other players.

Until every active zoner (including Bocc), except a few, switch to Tensaigan and keep the stuff they already have. Presuming Bocc follows through on Bocc things, then he will likely be switching to the new Fad depending on how much it ends up being incorporated and comparable to Rinnegan. Presuming people get creative with it like they got creative with rinnegan, the only thing that would keep sharingan revelent would be Izanagi (since Izanami cannot be used without the sharingan) and barely at that.

Just like when the Uchiha got a powerup that made them better than Hyuugans. Give it time.

The only way to prevent that is to make them as equal as possible. Which this thread has attempted to hash out.

okay then by that logic we shouldn't use Kamui because the speed of Kamui is nerfed within the SL verse, it's much faster in the actual show and can be used much more frequently.

we shouldn't use hiraishin because we've nerfed it to where multiple hiraishins cannot be used in rapid succession (one post)

We shouldn't use Edo tensei because it's been nerfed to where no more than 3 bodies can be used at once and we can't use offensive attacks with the Edo tensei present

Yeah Chakra solidification is already present within the verse but this would be on a different degree because of the Tenseigan, making it much stronger than anyone who used chakra solidification without it, Unless you'd all prefer that we just have Ninjutsu cancelling black balls of death.

I would prefer there not to be a replacement for the balls of death. Heck, I might would even prefer that we drop this until we can see the entire movie in a language and format that we can comprehend so that we can fully analyze what was shown to be able to be done and what was not shown to be able to be done with it.

Hiraishin, Edo Tensei, and Kamui all debuted in the manga (last time I checked). Up until it was confirmed that Kamui and intangibility were one in the same, intangibility was treated as an entirely separate technique, and Kamui as Kakashi used it was hardly touched.

Hiraishin too was hardly touched until after it had been on SL for some time. I don't recall Tomi really adhering to any of the current hiraishin rules, especially the teacher-student rule.

Edo Tensei was not touched either until it was further shown in the manga during the 4th Great Shinobi War, and even then, not until people who actually used it in-game started using it did it really become a deal enough to start limiting.

Kamui is the only one of those two examples that does not have a "must be adhered to" list of rules. The only things nerfed about Kamui is intangibility, and that was to keep people from staying intangible for ridiculous amounts of times in posts (since in really close combat 5 minutes could take 4+ posts to get through) and to keep down the spam of long-range Kamui.

So much of this could have been avoided had the abilities of the Tensaigan closely mirrored that of the Rinnegan, with the replacement of the Paths being the ability to use Kaguya's variation of Dead bone Pulse KG (since the passed down variant would, in my system, be a requirement anyways). The ability to master all chakra natures being kept the same between the two, and the Tensaigan maintaining the Byakugan's visionary prowess.

In short, I personally want out of this discussion a Rinnegan-Tensaigan balance that will not cause Tensaigan to become overwhelming more popular. At the same time, if it is going to be nerfed to the ground, then just leave it out of the game and get byakugan + sage mode + Kaguya and call it a friggen day.

[Ѕhadow]

You guys write a lot .-.

[Warren]

No, that really doesn't explain it any better at all.