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[Kyutu - Super King -]

Snip

Concerning whether they stay or go, as I've already stated, I have no interest in. All I can see it doing is swallowing SL's RP a level, and giving a hit to some RP. If that trade off it worth other topics becoming the prominent "points of interest" to the community then so be it.

My main concern is indeed that if they were to stay, or  whatever else comes about to replace them, the whole "don't have to fight who you don't want to fight" notion. This game is already secular and "clique"-ish as is. Allowing people to decline to face others on whim with absolutely no repercussion in any sense, especially when in game stakes should reasonably be, well, at stake, is a deep nail in a coffin that's already a  few feet under compared to recent years. It's just starting to make a bit of a come back, it would be unsettling to have a precedent  of "comfort" over "game play", which is what such a "don't want to fight X" rule would be. Anti-RP. Similar notions are already ingrained in SL's  more casual RP, I don't think it would be a good idea to "officialise" it in the "larger" RP as well.

And how do you intend on stopping people from ignoring/rejecting other people? Regarding the tailed beasts, we can strip indefinitely until we get a set of hosts who are complacent and willing to abide by the fact that they must RP with anyone who challenges for a tailed beast. But how many people are really up for all that that implies? As you've mentioned, SL is kind of cliquey, but that's mostly because no one is obligated to RP by any set of rules with someone they don't want to outside of the tailed beasts, the only global objects that must be open to every player in SL at least in theory.

If they were to stay, then people would have to be forced to follow the rules or be stripped. I admit I've had a bleeding heart moment here and there, but making exceptions for the rules has always been an undermining of the point of the rules in the first place. Either you suck it up and do as you're told or you hand over the tailed beast.

There is not a particularly long list of people I know who are going to be jumping at the chance to be in those shoes.

I'm confused at what you're trying to say here. People don't follow the rules so we shouldn't make rules except for the things which need rules which people will follow but don't so they shouldn't have them? The point was lost somewhere along the line or I've rolled a 1 in reading comprehension.

I think I agree that items in the common domain should have rules which people follow or they lose said items?

As for that last point, I raise the fact that there isn't a particularly long list of people who regularly RP SL. I would guess, at the very most, at this time there are about 30 people who play for more than 4 months out of the year before taking 'breaks' or never coming back in general. And I do mean RP, not people who log on and sit and watch (like, admittedly, myself).

[Eric]

Only 'common domain' stuff like tailed beasts can have rules that can be universally enforced without imposing on the perceived rights of RPers. And since there is no set of executives but merely community consensus even with enforcing the tailed beast rules, it is difficult to find volunteers who actually want to participate in such a strict system. To my knowledge, significant amounts of RP goes on in clan halls and the like, so there are more than 30 people (I believe, don't quote me on this one) who actively RP.

You, to an extent, stated my point. Outside of tailed beasts, everyone has their own perception of what is good RP and what is bad RP, and have a tendency to reject what they consider "bad RP". When said groups are brought together and forced to RP, the notions that they have beforehand get in the way of cooperation, making something like cross-RP-type interactions difficult to facilitate. The biju, as "common domain", is a such medium where owners would have to either give up strictly adhering to their notion of good RP or not be a host. RP is all about give and take, and when there are IC fights where permanent death is a possibility, people are going to take far more than they are going to give in most of the cases I've seen.

It wasn't as much of an issue when you could die and come back next week as if you had not just been killed at all, hence why I had pushed earlier in this topic for all biju fights, if they were to remain, to be OOC, so that the consequence of death is not hanging over anyone's shoulder, and people might just ease out of the Alamo just a bit.

[Bocchiere]

I'd just like to point out that making all the fights OOC would only help somewhat, and it would be a tradeoff. Sure maybe people won't be so stiff if they can't die. However it is also a downside for the host then because you can NEVER EVER EVER be done with someone. You must fight them as many times as they want to fight you, ad nauseam. That's why I like the fights to be IC because, though they may complain more, if I seal you away it still turns out better for me in the long run. I'd rather take a little rougher complaining for a short burst then mild complaining until the end of time.

[Becquerel]

I'd just like to point out that making all the fights OOC would only help somewhat, and it would be a tradeoff. Sure maybe people won't be so stiff if they can't die. However it is also a downside for the host then because you can NEVER EVER EVER be done with someone. You must fight them as many times as they want to fight you, ad nauseam. That's why I like the fights to be IC because, though they may complain more, if I seal you away it still turns out better for me in the long run. I'd rather take a little rougher complaining for a short burst then mild complaining until the end of time.

Why not make it if someone loses against a jinc, then you can never fight that jinc again? You can still go for any other the other ones, but just not that specific one when it's held by that person. You'll have to wait until someone else gets it to try again for that particular bijuu.

[Garō, Ichirou]

I like that Dnd reference lol
As far as the Fights being OOC, that's not a problem lol I'd be fine with that, and it's probably how most of fights would be going anyway?
Though I do still agree that IC fights are useful for getting rid of bothersome individuals, but it's not that hard to get along with people lol.
Either way I'm with Warren on this, I did just get this Biju and I'd really prefer not to just lose it because we think it might fix Rp, which I also don't think will happen.

People are gonna bicker and argue over anything and everything, that's just what people do. If (as a host) you can't deal with it then give up the beast and exclude yourself from the babble. I for one don't really have an issue with having to fight for the Biju, and dealing with people along the way.

[Becquerel]

That's a good idea. If we put as much energy and time towards RPing as we do discussing this bijuu issue, there would be a lot more that people would be able to do.

[Nathan]

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8090.msg216302.html#msg216302

I'm laughing more than I should at this. Nevertheless, as I'm sure people have said it comes down to the participants of the battle. It just so happens that Bocc' was apart of most of them so they didn't go smoothly. The ones I've seen that didn't involve Bocc' are 50/50. None of Luka's went well, but Zenaku's did. Warren vs Hazama didn't go well, but yet Eric's fights seem to go pretty well. It's all about the people.

[Bocchiere]

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8090.msg216302.html#msg216302

I'm laughing more than I should at this. Nevertheless, as I'm sure people have said it comes down to the participants of the battle. It just so happens that Bocc' was apart of most of them so they didn't go smoothly. The ones I've seen that didn't involve Bocc' are 50/50. None of Luka's went well, but Zenaku's did. Warren vs Hazama didn't go well, but yet Eric's fights seem to go pretty well. It's all about the people.

So there's just no actual standards for being a staff member on SL then? Nathan can just come onto the forums and insult me for no reason? That's what mods do here now?

I've had multiple fun bijuu fights and I was the only one to successfully have a bijuu battle under the IC rules if you've forgotten, literally every other one got voided and went back to a 1v1 challenge. Meanwhile you void near-decade veterans of the site because they join my clan and I'm also going to guess that only one of us has their own clan members asking for my help with their assassination because they believe them to be an active detriment to rp. Spoilers: It's not me.

[Ace]

I have seen insulting comments on the forum, lets not play double standards now. =)

All members are free to express themselves, provided rules are not broken.
No rules were broken. No precedent has been set, nor will it be set on limiting that freedom.

I have defended you quite a bit Bocchiere, and I'm sure I have taken heat for that as well.
Though some, if not many, of your passive aggressive comments have been perceived by others as insulting, you were told when you crossed a line- if you didn't hear from me or someone else, you knew you were fine.

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8090.msg216302.html#msg216302

I'm laughing more than I should at this. Nevertheless, as I'm sure people have said it comes down to the participants of the battle. It just so happens that Bocc' was apart of most of them so they didn't go smoothly. The ones I've seen that didn't involve Bocc' are 50/50. None of Luka's went well, but Zenaku's did. Warren vs Hazama didn't go well, but yet Eric's fights seem to go pretty well. It's all about the people.

So there's just no actual standards for being a staff member on SL then? Nathan can just come onto the forums and insult me for no reason? That's what mods do here now?

I've had multiple fun bijuu fights and I was the only one to successfully have a bijuu battle under the IC rules if you've forgotten, literally every other one got voided and went back to a 1v1 challenge. Meanwhile you void near-decade veterans of the site because they join my clan and I'm also going to guess that only one of us has their own clan members asking for my help with their assassination because they believe them to be an active detriment to rp. Spoilers: It's not me.

"So there's just no actual standards for being a staff member on SL then?" <--- is that not an insult? 

I don't care if you're staff or not, we are all members, first and foremost. Anyone may insult me all they like, or they may be passive aggressive, simply don't break any rules. =)

At the same time, I hope in the future constructive posts will be made...

[Bocchiere]

Like I said, that was not the impression I've been given based on past events. Traditionally it's been, "I don't like this, thus it is harassment, thus it is against the rules." If we're not going to be pulling that anymore then that's fine with me.

[Ace]

Like I said, that was not the impression I've been given based on past events. Traditionally it's been, "I don't like this, thus it is harassment, thus it is against the rules." If we're not going to be pulling that anymore then that's fine with me.

Forgive me for deviating, will be the last post. Though to be clear from a staff's perspective, even if we may not like something, **IF it does not break any rules,** not much can be done.

Now, from  the person who is being harassed/insulted or perceive's such a threat, that is a different scenario and will be looked at on a case by case basis. We do not tolerate harassment here, at all.

=)

[Eric]

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8090.msg216302.html#msg216302

I'm laughing more than I should at this. Nevertheless, as I'm sure people have said it comes down to the participants of the battle. It just so happens that Bocc' was apart of most of them so they didn't go smoothly. The ones I've seen that didn't involve Bocc' are 50/50. None of Luka's went well, but Zenaku's did. Warren vs Hazama didn't go well, but yet Eric's fights seem to go pretty well. It's all about the people.

My fights are all OOC. The only thing I have to lose is the 5-tails. No super companion, not my character's life, just a beast I won't let go because of stubborness. As a result of that reality, I am not nearly as nitpicky and hardcore in my biju fights as I would be in an IC fight. Even if it were forced to be an IC fight, I still have a duty to do as a jinch. I can't advocate stripping folks for not following the rules, and then breaking the rules in the next breath and expecting there to be an exception made for me.

As Kirk, Bocc, and others know, I am far less amiable when my character's life is on the line. I have a bad side, and fighting me IC and doing certain things in the RP is a quick way to get there.

[Uchiha Madara]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I am completely against the idea of banning Bijuu. I view Bijuu as valuable tools and an essential aspect in the Naruto Universe and it would feel a bit empty without them here. Sure, we can make do without them, but they aren't the problem, its people and to a lesser extent, the rules we have in place. If we had harsher rules, it would leave only a select few, those willing to jump through hoops and be in constant RP danger. Make the concept unappealing to those unwilling to work hard for it (like giving the Jinchuriki a greater responsibility to the SL community). I believe if that is implemented, the type of people who are or will be Jinchuriki are those who have a strong dedication to RP, and the patience and fortitude to go through opposition with a sense of decorum.

[Eric]

That is an interesting notion. I would prefer that those who already display " a strong dedication to RP, and the patience and fortitude to go through opposition with a sense of decorum" be the ones who are given the chance to be Jinchuuriki...

Any way to fairly evaluate this? Because other than that, it's pretty trial and error-based.

[Eric]

How about a 3 month cut-off. And by cut off I mean temporary ban on bijuu. We take them out of the game for this amount of time and see how things go? If they get better we talk about prolonging the cut-off or getting rid of the bijuu forever. If things get worse we reintroduce them.

Eh? EHHHHH?! EHYHEYHEHYEHYEHE. I'm done.

Well, my battle with Masane is over, so I will go ahead and say that I intend on going here. If you guys see me RPing Kokuo for whatever reason, give me a gentle reminder on that. ^_^

For the next three months I intend on not doing biju stuff other than discussion. I will add folks to my biju challenge list, but I will not be doing any challenge within that timeframe.

If there are any who disagree, be civil, but do not hold your peace. My basis for doing this partly based in this here thread, hence why I posted here and not made a new thread.