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[Eric]

I have brought up issue with IC challenges having OOC fight components to them before (and even vice versa) but had issues finding it (might have been in a topic that had been on a different subject) and searching through all the posts I've made on the forum would be... Tiresome to say the least.

Anyways, as one of the architects of the current tailed beast challenge rules it had been to my understanding that an IC challenge requires the entire challenge to be IC from start to finish, and that an OOC challenge must be OOC from start to finish. In practice, a sort of hybridization has at times taken place with a mixture of both, with IC hunts mixed in with OOC fighting being the most common mixing.

For a long time now it has been one of those things that has not really been a huge issue, but is nonetheless a point of confusion and a few times outright frustration.

2] ºDetermine the Nature of the Challengeº
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge. This means that if an IC Challenge is chosen, the challenger has to RP learning the host’s identity and location and maneuvers him into a Match. This does not mean that the RP is used as a means for the Host to forever avoid having to face his challenger. The host must make it possible for the challenger to complete the terms of the RP event. This is not the battle part. You are going to face off with each other. You are just being creative about it.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place.

Why have "both will decide" at all in the rule if, when it comes down to whether the fight is IC or OOC, that is largely left up to the host in practice?

3] ºDetermine the Details of the Matchº
The host and challenger, and only the host and challenger, must decide if the battle is to the death. They decide if others are permitted to participate [3v3 max] or if the match is 1v1. Will there be exclusions concerning what powers are to be used? Who will be the judge? Is a time limit proposed in which to complete the challenge?

Why is the first sentence even bothered with when most of the details are set by the host in their preferences list(s) in practice? If only the host sets the vast majority of the regulations, wouldn't it make sense to state that in the rules?

Or are the host and challenger supposed to be able to come to a consensus on the details of the match?

This is only just one example, a few others having been presented fairly recently. I am thinking we may need to update the rules to reflect the reality or alter the reality to reflect the rules. Or both.

[Rusaku]

[KayentaMoenkopi]

You could have two worlds going on.

The OOC bijuu hosts and the IC bijuu hosts. And then leave each other alone. If you want to IC hunt, then only seek the IC hosts. If you want to OOC fight, then only hunt and challenge the OOC hosts.

Of course only the IC hosts would be permitted to use the bijuu in RP.

Which is an interesting point, I believe. If you are only going to do an OOC match, then you should not be using the bijuu in RP period. Why do you get to come blast my village to dust, but then when it comes to you possibly losing your power buddy and die...its oh no, ooc time?

[Becquerel]

That actually sounds like a very good middle ground. It keeps the people who try and have bijuu for the sake of having bijuu and separated from the people who have bijuu for the sake of RP. It's kind of like finding a solution for all of those 'claimed' things that belong to inactive people. Just because people aren't using them for the gameplay aspect of it doesn't mean it shouldn't be sealed away from everyone else.

[Eric]

... Which is an interesting point, I believe. If you are only going to do an OOC match, then you should not be using the bijuu in RP period...

What if the host is attacked while they are IC? It would make no sense for the host not to use the tailed beast's power, regardless of how challenges are done.

[Deathstroke]

... Which is an interesting point, I believe. If you are only going to do an OOC match, then you should not be using the bijuu in RP period...

What if the host is attacked while they are IC? It would make no sense for the host not to use the tailed beast's power, regardless of how challenges are done.

I took it more as the host doesn't actually have the bijuu in IC rp if they do it this way. You either have it IC and defend it IC or it's just a badge of honor that does nothing, that you defend OOC.

[Eric]

... Which is an interesting point, I believe. If you are only going to do an OOC match, then you should not be using the bijuu in RP period...

What if the host is attacked while they are IC? It would make no sense for the host not to use the tailed beast's power, regardless of how challenges are done.

I took it more as the host doesn't actually have the bijuu in IC rp if they do it this way. You either have it IC and defend it IC or it's just a badge of honor that does nothing, that you defend OOC.

That would turn the OOC tailed beast holders into regular ninja with a trophy in the closet. Which defeats the purpose of having tailed beasts in the game, especially if there are plenty of OOC folks about. And if we're about to go defeating the purpose I am all out for just voiding the tailed beasts altogether.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

well the point of compromise is not to set up all or nothing situations.

If you rp...then it is all RP.

and

If you OOC...then it is all OOC.

seems quite doable to me. Both are valid lines of hosting a bijuu. One is not just a badge while the other is legit. To have some who are just zoning champions while others are just RP champions seems a good compromise.

It beats the...my way or void the bijuu forever option.

[Trev]

Even though most jinchs who have the IC hunt option never defend their biju once while using this cause they go through great efforts of voiding any attempt at finding them, but are still free to use their biju under your suggestion.


Annnnd most ic hunts take months of rp, while most ooc challenges are that way, so both host and challenger can actually do other rp.


Buuuut if a compromise must be made, go back to having IC challenges, to the death.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

That would make this tip-toeing around thing interesting for a change.

Still, as is IC and OOC often run toward the void monster. It's not exclusive to either one. I think that is more a behavior problem than a system failure.

[Eric]

That would make this tip-toeing around thing interesting for a change.

Still, as is IC and OOC often run toward the void monster. It's not exclusive to either one. I think that is more a behavior problem than a system failure.

I disagree, how often is it we see an OOC match get gobbled by the void monster? I don't see it very often, albeit, I don't see alot of OOC challenges either.

... seems quite doable to me. Both are valid lines of hosting a bijuu. One is not just a badge while the other is legit. To have some who are just zoning champions while others are just RP champions seems a good compromise...

But the latter can't just be RP champions (unless as Trev point out making it next to impossible to be found/ lured into a match, which is practically against the rules, is considered RP) they have to also be able to zone in order to keep the beast.

By not bearing the responsibilities of a tailed beast, sure, the OOC route seems stupidly easier, but not being able to use the beast and then getting killed IC is likely to complicate that route fairly quickly. Does the killer get the trophy? And if so, that seems unfair to the OOC people who may or may not have had been fighting a challenger at the time.

If the mentalities, the players, are the problem, then that is one creek that just can't be waded. A turtle doesn't stop being a turtle if you break open its shell or if you put it in a cage. It's still a turtle, just in a different condition than if it were left alone.

Truth be told, the benefits of the tailed beasts being in the game are outweighed by the harms, especially since the people who hold/go after them seem to be the issue rather than the system. Alas though, the focus here is on adjusting the fights themselves or the rules in order to better clarify things. I for one suggest for more specifity and clarity in places, along with more consistent enforcement of the rules. If that doesn't minimize issues I don't know what will.

[Deathstroke]

If that doesn't minimize issues I don't know what will.

We could use duct tape. Lots and lots of duct tape. Duct tape fixes everything.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

it comes in fancy colors and patterns now too.

[Ѕhadow]

Why have "both will decide" at all in the rule if, when it comes down to whether the fight is IC or OOC, that is largely left up to the host in practice?

**Because both will decide. I wrote the template to give the host the most power on purpose. If the host wants IC, but the challenger wants OOC then they will talk about it and see which one will be best suited. This is why it's worded as 'both will decide' Maybe alter it to both 'CAN' decide? **

+

Why is the first sentence even bothered with when most of the details are set by the host in their preferences list(s) in practice? If only the host sets the vast majority of the regulations, wouldn't it make sense to state that in the rules?

Or are the host and challenger supposed to be able to come to a consensus on the details of the match?

**
Once again I made the template to give the host the most say. However they are called Challenge PREFERENCES for a reason. They are in no way meant to be set in stone. Both parties are supposed to agree on things and if they don't agree on something find middle ground.**

Challenge Preferences are things that the host wants. They are not rules that are unchangeable and will differ with each new challenger/host. Even though some things the host is set on no matter what. This was expected.

Take my challenge preference for example. I have the outlet as the forums. If the challenger wanted the site then I could switch to that. I void Hijutsu: Kirisame, but I can talk to the challenger about allowing it. Or if they want to void something then we talk about it. Which I add by saying "Anything that we talked about in Pms that I or you are not allowed to use in the fight."

I also want 1 v 1 IC deathmatch. There is where it particularly crosses over from preference to you can't challenge unless it's [IC/OOC].

Besides it being IC or OOC the rest of my preferences are able to be altered by a challenger if middle ground is found.

Like when Kamui had the 9 tails his method was: OOC 1v1/2v1 or IC 1v1
See? Both would decide if IC or OOC

TL;DR
I designed the template to give hosts priority. The most common area where the host has absolute say is IC or OOC. The rest of the template is basic stuff that everyone agrees to and CAN BE altered if both parties want.

Like always if there is something just so outrageous you 'can't even' then bring it to the light and we'll talk about it.

[Raifudo Oppa]

I designed the template to give hosts priority. The most common area where the host has absolute say is IC or OOC. The rest of the template is basic stuff that everyone agrees to and CAN BE altered if both parties want.

I'm not sure where the confusion is for people. This is seriously just "do I wanna die for encouraging more RP in my (SL-)life? [Yes/No]"

If you try going as far as segregating OOC & IC jinch., then you're going to have a bad time -- both in time of creating rules for them each, regulating them, etc.

I mean, without going too far to find a reason why this would be difficult: how does training in OOC work? Far as I recall, you're supposed to be IC that you're a jinch. and train (or whatever) and that progresses. But being an OOC, do you just claim having trained after some time?