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[Warren]

Doesn't matter what either side is called, it could still be done, and judging by the three instances so far it should work without any real trouble whatsoever too.

As for why a list, convenience.

[Murciélago/Bryantheexiled]

What I truly don't get is why people would try to obtain a bijuu knowing they're going to be bothered about fights and bijuu related matters and then complain about said problems.
I mean I understand the qualms everyone has been having over the beasts and the problems that have surfaced facing rules and such but honestly did people not know they were literally just playing with a primed grenade when they attempted to have a beast?

 SL has had issues with them since they first came out... And their are people who put up with those said problems until they lose or give up on the beast... Or the extreme few who still do have them...but I'm sure the people who managed to get one knew they were gonna be bothered.

 We've been on this topic for about 6 months now and nothing has yet to be solved or answered or even thoroughly worked on to a complete or semi complete acceptance.  We've even had a poll to the same effect.

Bocc as to your idea... Would it work... Yeah I think so I clap and applause at it, Will it eventually be abused and ripped to shreds by power hungry mongols and players dodging and ignoring others.. Yes and we will be back here again.

The rules need to be modified.... This right here is something everyone is just going to have put there big boy or big girl pants on and work on... Not everyone is gonna get their way or get complete immunity to things they want.. The rules of sl have always been that way.

 People just need to stop throwing the temper tantrum their having and move on. I mean what's the point of voting if it's just gonna be ignored.. What's the point of setting rules if someone's just gonna be like nah I don't like *walks out* get the few players who currently have the bijuu, people that have had them in the past and hash those rules out.. Someone doesn't like it or can't be civil then bam! strip them or suspend them from having one, make a council even to monitor them to make sure they're not abusing it (idk)

In all seriousness though People on here have forgotten that the damn bijuu were a privilege we got and received and just like children if you cant calm down and play nicely then it going to just get taken away. Anyway sorry for the rant on your topic but I felt someone needed to say it and again your idea is good but your gonna have people from bother side abuse it and twist it for there own egos or ideals.

I'd like to see the SL community move on from the constant barrage of topics we see on this matter constantly and use all that energy to move forward and come up with new ideas and adventures we could all be having.  If everyone truly wants to just go blow crap up then bring back war >.> go fight with a nation or something.

[Warren]

I think you mighta kinda missed the point. With this thing both sides would be allowed to do as they please among each other, without the constant obviously majorly conflicting interests that have been the cause of a great majority of all this trouble. I mean this has been done thrice now already, and only problem whatsoever has been whose beast is called 'the other' on wiki and whose isn't, aaaand even that with could simply be solved by splitting the list into competitive and casual, or whatever terms people wish to be used.

Competitives would have their own iron set of rules, and if you tried to bend those or outright break them you'd pay for it accordingly. Casuals in turn from what I've seen have been going along with basically zero problems, except when conflicts with the competitive people rose up. Remove the conflicts and...lack of problems is left behind? How terrible?

I'm not really seeing how this could be abused. Telling people to stop bitching and just mysteriously somehow solve it, when not only does that clearly not work in this instance, and there's a far better alternative available anyway, is just kinda silly.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

He is not saying to mysteriously solve it. He is saying to work on making rules.

And Ace is handling this situation with the giving out of keys to his dwelling toward that very end, or am I mistaken in his stepping in to do that very thing?

Those who wish to work on those rules were to message him for a key to his dwelling and then get to work.

[Warren]

And I'm saying why bother when there's a quite likely better alternative that could solve it all right there and then?

As for Ace, dunno. All I recall him saying is he's holding 1v1 talks or something in a dwelling, and that you can ask for a key even if you don't get one but he isn't guaranteeing anything.

Forgive me the skepticism but when a handful of people in public can't get over it after months on end, I don't expect an even smaller number behind closed doors to come up with anything properly applicable either.

[Murciélago/Bryantheexiled]

The question is why should beasts of 9 be split up in 18? because two factions cant come to a consensus on the problem. Casual players weren't meant to have bijuu sadly but it's true. The point is People finally got some awesome power and wanted to hang onto it without doing any work. The problem is that you assume there would be 9 casual players would would want nothing to do with being competitive, You (Warren) grew tired of having to deal with players attempting to take your bijuu and putting up with the rules that were made for people to have them... So why didn't you just get rid of it?  Making 18 bijuu is honestly just not gonna work... it's a good idea in theory but what if the 9 casual players or any of them decide that they want to become serious competitors then what? strip them of their bijuu?  have them come on here once again and complain about it then have it be made into 27 bijuu for competitors, casual, and semi?

The main thing your not getting is that people just don't want to have to admit that they've been pushing things a little to much and just want to keep arguing until everybody gets tired and just accepts it just to make it go away. I mean honestly in the discussions how often have you considered just having one thing you don't want accepted so as to come to a new consensus. No one is going to get all of what they want.

Forgive me for the wording but can't you just get over being hurt and move on? I mean the bijuu were made for competition point and simple. They weren't made for people to just take and walk away with. You don't get to become the best and have no one challenge you and to just expect that is just full of narcissism.

I don't expect anyone to just mysteriously solve it but in reality who here really has a right to even decided on the matter.

1. Ace.
2. The current bijuu holders
3. the old bijuu holders

That's it, simple cut and clean. They were the people to agree to the rules and get one, you just can't cop out now because you feel it's not fair. You have to work with those people and see to get it changed. I mean saying that there's a likely better alternative that could solve it all right there and then makes one question come to mind is it truly better for everyone or for you and your agenda?

Because if it isn't for the whole community then i'm sorry but it's wrong.. your not just one individual on here it's a group of people meaning decisions need to be made for the group and some sacrifices have to be made. if not everyone likes it.. well their are other things to do on sl then have a bijuu... no one is forcing anyone to even try to have one.

[Warren]

...lemme stop you right there, because your numerous jumps to false conclusions about me and every other 'casual' player are frankly insulting.

Next up have a double-take at what's been stated several times already.

Quite a few people have already been asking for something like this for quite a while now, up to the point even people who don't care about bijuu are getting sick of the arguing, because they've seen that it actually works from several examples already. The latest Rusaku/Gitsune case? A split was suggested, was done, and it ended very quickly with no trouble whatsoever since. Hell, even the epitome of competitiveness on-site aka Bocchi is now thinking this could be a good idea, and there has yet to be any real protest outside of you ._.

Furthermore, why would you give a damn what 'casuals' want to do anyway, if you're in the competitive group yourself? >_> Like really, why? Where's the harm? How does it do anything negative to you whatsoever to have your own set of bijuu to fight over to your hearts content, while others have their own for a less fighting more RP focused approach?

There is none, and your sole example of a 'casual' wanting to jump ship can be solved simply by making him/her fight it out with the prior competitive holder of their beast, winner becomes new sole holder for competitive side, while the 'casuals' just pick a new one for the now vacant spot. Logic, numbers stay the same, everyones happy.

[Murciélago/Bryantheexiled]

I've seen you say i'm tired of this i'm just gonna go off and do my own thing and screw you guys <.< that's not false but that's not the point.

The Gitsune case that was brought to boards multiple times that everyone got sick and tired of and eventually just agreed to it just for it to stop? That doesn't help you.. it literally shows that if one just abides by the rules they would have just been stripped, Any real protest except me.. how many other players out of all the bijuu holders have actually agreed to this? i'm just the first to make a complaint, i may not be the last. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I'm in the competitive group? >.> Proof of this I've got to see  I'm pretty sure I've never owned a bijuu or wanted one in the first place? If your using the vs Athos thing in the bijuu section i hate to burst your bubble on it but that was to end in a gag of me throwing a pokeball at him and capturing him and having the yugioh music theme go off in the background. He agreed to it and multiple people knew of it <.<  even kay declared me the winner at the beginning the joke and non seriousness was implied.  Now why i would give a damn about what you "casuals" want to do is because if it doesn't go well it comes to the community in forms of outburst and violence and name calling and hair pulling so the "Damn" is other players get tired of it. 

while others have their own for a less fighting more RP focused approach? really i don't see many actual bijuu holders actually make much rp let alone anything with it except come on here and yell about someone challenging them.. the oh idk 30 topics or so before hand more then enough proof.

Yeah the casual is just gonna be fine with being sent off to the competitive side because he wanted to partake a bit into it then what if he doesn't want to go and decided to go overboard and comes to the boards arguing about it. What if the competitive holder doesn't want to fight with the casual then what? you have 8 casual then 10 competitive?  you can't auto strip them with out them throwing a fit.

 You go off the presumption everyone is just gonna be happy with it when time and time again everyone here has made that assumption just to be proven wrong.

Anyway I came and gave my opinion on the matter, not everyone is gonna agree on the subject sadly and as I've seen it all looks good on paper till it gets implemented then it all goes down the drain.  If it works great <.< ill be happy to see all the bijuu nonsense come to an end. If it doesn't ill restrain on the i told you so and come back to hopefully be able to come to an agreement on what to do with them.

[Mei]

What I truly don't get is why people would try to obtain a bijuu knowing they're going to be bothered about fights and bijuu related matters and then complain about said problems.
I mean I understand the qualms everyone has been having over the beasts and the problems that have surfaced facing rules and such but honestly did people not know they were literally just playing with a primed grenade when they attempted to have a beast?

That's a good question. I would like to hear the answer for such if anyone can provide one.
I agree with most of what Murcielago said. >.>

There's a good chance that these list of 'casuals' won't contribute anything to RP.
So they get a bijuu for what then? Just to add it to their profile?

Anyways...

蛭, Hiru
The Zero-Tails Leech (零尾, Reibi)   Ryoji   Otogakure

守鶴, Shukaku
The One-Tailed Tanuki (一尾, Ichibi)   Warren   Illac Renin

又旅, Matatabi
The Two-Tailed Cat (ニ尾, Nibi)    Gitsune   Kirigakure

磯撫, Isobu
The Three-Tailed Giant Turtle (三尾, Sanbi)   Kaguya Eiko   Kirigakure

孫悟空, Son Gokū
The Four-Tailed Monkey (四尾, Yonbi)   Shadow   Iwagakure/Otogakure

穆王, Kokuō
The Five-Tailed Dolphin Horse (五尾, Gobi)   Keitō Uzumaki   Uzushiogakure

犀犬, Saiken
The Six-Tailed Slug (六尾, Rokubi)   Athos    Unaffiliated

重明, Chōmei
The Seven-Tailed Horned Beetle (七尾, Nanabi)   Rusaku Ōtsutsuki   Konohagakure

牛鬼, Gyūki
The Eight-Tailed Giant Ox (八尾, Hachibi)   Kage   Amegakure

九喇嘛, Kurama
The Nine-Tailed Demon Fox (九尾, Kyūbi)   Uchiha Madara   Amegakure

I'm assuming that's the most up-to-date list, correct?
Out of that last, it seems that only Gitsune and Kaguya Eiko are the only problems, correct?

If so, here's a possible solution.

Rusaku becomes the sole owner of 2 tails.
Yujo gets 3 tails and gives up his claims on the 8 tails, making Kage the sole owner of the 8 tails.
If both Rusaku AND Yujo can agree to that, then (almost) everyone is happy and there will be no need for splitting. Maybe we can arrange a vote of sort (2 weeks long?) with the other option being 'splitting' but then again, we have seen how effective voting as come but I feel optimistic about this one. >.>

Remember this is an idea so don't attack me. =P

[Ace]

I don't expect anyone to just mysteriously solve it but in reality who here really has a right to even decided on the matter.

1. Ace.
2. The current bijuu holders
3. the old bijuu holders

On the contrary, I do not have any authority.  I am acting as a member trying to help the situation- just as *any* other member.

I always emphasize that Staff does not interfere with role playing. We may help as regular members, but we do not enforce any of this. =)

What I am doing is simply another alternative, since most the members posting here are simply talking and not taking any action. Yes, actions do speak louder than words. Instead of talking and talking and talking, do something. I am hearing the same ideas over and over again- many of them great!

Lead the cause, take charge, initiate the solution....
It is not initiating when discussing the same thing over and over again.

[Bocchiere]

@Mei: Well unless you can convince Gitsune and Eiko to give up their bijuu or strip them of it then we're right where we are now.

[Mei]

@Mei: Well unless you can convince Gitsune and Eiko to give up their bijuu or strip them of it then we're right where we are now.

Well that's the thing, we won't recongize them as such. >.>
If the majority of the RP community (and a few 'key players') likes this idea, we can show forward with this. We have our 'official list', let's give it some power and use it.

I mean Gitsune just admitted to 'locking the bijuu' and being unable to use its chakra anyway so we won't have to worry about her posting anything bijuu-related. Eiko, as far as I know, has not even posted anything (RP related) in a while anyway. >.>

[Rusaku]

Well, if it was not obvious I am very much aligned with Murci and Mei on the viewpoint of "Why even have the beast?" if you don't want to deal with people coming after you. If anything, I feel like the casuals would just be claiming the beast as a trophy even more so than the competitive players. I have not seen a single person RP with the beast in away that truly affects the ongoing plot, aside from conversations that no one else can hear. Of course this goes for the more serious players as well, but at least we go so far as to incorporate the beasts powers and abilities into our characters so we may have a more diverse experience when playing the game we spend so much time on.

If the Naruto series has shown us ANYTHING, it is that if you have a tailed beast within your body, you are a target for those who wish to obtain that very same power. It is probably the most cannon thing you can find here on SL; people's desire to destroy or capture the beast hosts.  I do believe this is an even more prominent feature here than in the show due to the constant mad grab for those who have this ability.

While I cannot speak for Yujo (Though I am 99% certain he would agree) I would be more than willing to go with Mei's compromise. Hell, I would be willing to give up the two tails to someone who is willing to follow the rules, that way the beasts are in more hands than just a select few who are better at arguing than others xD

My standpoint on the whole situation is that if you want to RP with a beast then you MUST Follow a set of rules. If you do not want to acknowledge the beasts, then you CANNOT lock the one you have away from the people who want it. It's that simple. Honestly, the ones who do that look like children to me; locking away the toy so no one else can play with it despite the fact you don't even like the toy. It's immature plain and simple.

Bocc, on paper I think the idea of having two lists is a fresh means of handling a shitty situation, but in practice I feel like this will stir up more issue in the future. Of course I am not ignorant to the fact that people will start shit with every single contingency you plan, because that's how people get their rocks off apparently.

I think we need to just ignore the people who falsely claim the beasts. Not necessarily ignore their characters as a whole, for the simple fact that we would be barring them from having fun and that's against the rules. Though it goes along with the fact that I cannot just claim to be the ten tailed host. If you are claiming something you do not have, you will be ignored by a majority of people. Bocc, you and I both know that the only people who are causing the issue are the two from Kiri and they have already been technically stripped of their beasts. The only person left who does not follow the rules is Warren, and he has never followed the rules; for some reason people just let him go with it. Why not just edit the official list to have Hags and Eiko removed, and remove the 8 tails from Yujo so Kage can have it. Right there we have mended all of the rifts and people who will openly follow the rules have the corresponding beasts. Save for Warren, and I have no issue with him continuing his methods of RP. Honestly I would think it quite odd to see anyone else as the Ichibi anyway. Not only that, but he is willing to fight for his beast if you go out and find him, so even then it's not impossible to get the one tails. Just exponentially more difficult.

If there is NO OTHER WAY, then sure the split lists can be attempted, but I would rather see things stay somewhat the same with one single list. As I have said in the past, if you have an issue with the rules that have been posted, then go say something on the workshop thread. Do not stand idly by people, the grave will leave plenty of time for silence.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

What I see is confusing really.

Eiko and Gitsune...

Why can't someone just RP the hunt like they want? You have no problem with going that route for Warren.

They want legit RP. Not metagaming. Is the problem those two women, really?
Last I knew Eiko gave Yujo his fight, but he refused it because she wanted to just have both of them engage in Taijutsu to decide who gets the beast. HE didn't want to fight her without chakra even though she too would be without chakra. Now, I don't know what the final word was from him after she responded to him again.

But seriously, let me say it one more time.

You are ok with Warren meeting people through legit hunts, why not the girls?

[Rusaku]

What I see is confusing really.

Eiko and Gitsune...

Why can't someone just RP the hunt like they want? You have no problem with going that route for Warren.

They want legit RP. Not metagaming. Is the problem those two women, really?
Last I knew Eiko gave Yujo his fight, but he refused it because she wanted to just have both of them engage in Taijutsu to decide who gets the beast. HE didn't want to fight her without chakra even though she too would be without chakra. Now, I don't know what the final word was from him after she responded to him again.

But seriously, let me say it one more time.

You are ok with Warren meeting people through legit hunts, why not the girls?

We did RP the hunt. A large number of times in various different ways to jump through every hoop they have ever asked for, yet it's never good enough.

Look to the debacle with Masane and her attempt at the two tails. We did that RP at least 3 times and she never got the fight because it was never good enough.

I did an RP and sent it to Hags, and after agreeing she decided to tell me to go fuck my self because she locked it away so no one can ever find her.

Hell, Bocc and I are even in Kiri right now to try and interact with them, yet they have literally ignored us. They even took the time to continue their RP without so much as even acknowledging us with an NPC.

Yujo is under no obligation to limit himself so she has more of a chance to win the fight. Yet again this is a hazard of taking a beast. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Eiko and Gitsune are the problem because they are trying to lock away the beasts, and still claim them as their own. Warren has shown with his fight against Hazama that he can indeed be convinced to defend his beast despite how difficult he wants to make it.

You are trying to make them out to be the victim, and that is most certainly not the case.