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[Bocchiere]

Kiri, wonderful Kiri.

Let's just say they gave me the idea that this needs to be addressed.

I don't know about you guys but I personally don't think that waiting till hunters are at your village IC, looking for you, only to OOC pass the bijuu to another clan member who you could very well claim is on the opposite side of the world and going, "Nope no bijuu here." is a good situation. I feel like that maybe might be abused and might cause problems.

I don't have issues with doing things OOC normally, sometimes you don't feel like rping everything out, but that only works if the rp could actually happen. If I want to get intel from an associate but neither of us want to rp it then we can only just say it happened if both of us would have been able to complete the rp IC.

What I mean by that is if my associate was being murdered IC at the time by the people he stole the info from then we couldn't just claim OOC that he met with me and gave me that info, it would have been impossible to do. Just claiming the result of an rp like a simple meeting between two people is fine, but not if that is an excuse to make something happen that would not otherwise have been able to happen, get what I mean?

So what do we do? Say everything involving bijuu has to be publicly rp'd? Say that you can't OOC a bijuu away if hunters are actively hassling you?

[Camel]

I think there is a more underlying issue here. Now are *IC* hunts being generally accepted by the community? I could've sworn that we were to have only *OOC* interactions in terms of sanctioned bijuu matches until we figure out this issue with *IC* hunters.

So what do we do? Say everything involving bijuu has to be publicly rp'd? Say that you can't OOC a bijuu away if hunters are actively hassling you?

This is a tricky subject. Since of course, *almost* everyone here is guilty of receiving a tailed beast through *OOC* methods.  I'm more comfortable with this option here.

In event that an exchange of bijuu of any kind takes place, that new *owner* is obligated to *answer* all challenges, whether it be *OOC* or *IC*.

The only issue that I actually have Kirigakure is the issue of Matabi. I'm pretty sure no one wants to come forth and actually defend it, should that be an issue for them then I'll most likely step up to the plate and defend it with Rakudo. I'm all for equality amongst players but this 'hunting' game is starting to become ridiculous. It's either OOC or IC. Pick one and stick with it. Don't make a game out of it.

[Bocchiere]

I did not see nor was I told about any discussion that had taken place regarding bijuu challenges. It was my understanding that it is business as usual with the old rules till these are done. I remember Kage suggesting we put a hold on them till we were done with the new rules but that was shot down.

I agree that the hosts should no longer be able to do the "mixed hunts" where you have to find them IC but then they only fight you OOC.

Are you just saying that the new hosts inherits the challenger list?

[Camel]

Are you just saying that the new hosts inherits the challenger list?

Whenever I defeat a host, I take it upon myself to inherit their challenger list; minus the cool-down for becoming a host. Maybe this something that should be to a consensus and have everyone vote whether or not that this should occur.

I agree that the hosts should no longer be able to do the "mixed hunts" where you have to find them IC but then they only fight you OOC.

Mixed fighting was good back in the *day* but now it become more tedious to deal with an *IC* interaction for only it to become an *OOC* interaction. Too much games for a challenger to deal with.

I did not see nor was I told about any discussion that had taken place regarding bijuu challenges. It was my understanding that it is business as usual with the old rules till these are done. I remember Kage suggesting we put a hold on them till we were done with the new rules but that was shot down.

The matter should be brought up discussion in my opinion. The community is actually divided at this point since you have those who don't acknowledge bijuu and those whom do. The *old* rules are irrelevant at this point until we cover all of the loopholes and have a more stable set of rules that the community can go by. Which is the purpose of this entire *secret* subsection of the forums.

[Bocchiere]

I agree, though it is not currently a rule and could be made into one.

Again, agreed, one or the other. If we don't have IC hunts at all then all you need to pick is between 1v1 OOC or IC.

Is anyone actually voiding the bijuu? Everyone just seems to have kept their bijuu and are ignoring the rules. Again, good thing to bring up and discuss though. I'm going to make further topics.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

We can go back into the annuals of time and see where this passing around of bijuu was abused long before Kiri and/or the host decided to have Rakudo take over the bijuu and enter into a match against Yujo.

Again, I feel that the singling out of people and villages to name when dealing with an issue is provocative toward bad feelings and should be avoided. We can discuss topics without having to lay blame upon anyone as the sole cause for the breakdown of this bijuu system. There is very little here that has not been committed by more than one person or organization at any given time over the years. In short, to approach discussion with an accusatory tone of voice does not promote productive discussion but rather invites a potential pissing match. I believe by gathering here in this board we are trying to avoid that old knee jerk reaction on both ends of the spectrum; that of the accuser as well as that of the accused.

But to the point in question:

Consistency is something I feel is lacking.

I Would rather wait to see what happens with the 'inheriting the challenge list discussion' before I weigh in on this subject. BECAUSE...I feel that as long as that is done, then just going belly up at any given time in frustration over being a host should be permitted. I myself grew sick of the endless debates while Yugito was Nibi's host and returned her mid-hissy fit to Zenaku, OOC-ly, while still sporting a snarky quip on her bio documenting the event. 

[Eric]

... Consistency is something I feel is lacking...

Preach Kayenta, the choir has heard your fiery sermon! Consistency plagued an issue like this in the past (sometimes it was cool, sometimes it wasn't cool, there wasn't a hard rule on it) and I agree that it is high time to plug it in the hole. I say no biju should be passed around OOCly unless it is the biju council doing the passing. Otherwise, if a host wants to give up being host in the middle of a fight with someone else, that challenger should get the tailed beast OR, preferably to keep people from being dicks, just given to the Council to divy out.

I think there was a proposal somewhere on biju gifting, but I don't feel like digging it out at this current post in time. I'll go digging later if the need is still there.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

I think the question was about just showing up to challenge? not being in the middle of a match?

I don't know about you guys but I personally don't think that waiting till hunters are at your village IC, looking for you, only to OOC pass the bijuu to another clan member who you could very well claim is on the opposite side of the world and going, "Nope no bijuu here." is a good situation. I feel like that maybe might be abused and might cause problems.

If not in a match, I should be able to quit being a host and turn it over to whom ever I wish. Just because someone is looking for me does not mean they should just get it. That is uber lame to me. What motivation would my character have to give it over to the enemy? I would give it to my Kage. My character doesn't even know a bijuu council exists. That is an OOC thing, yes?

However, if in the middle of a match, well...that is a forfeit in my book and goes to the challenger.

[Bocchiere]

I think the question was about just showing up to challenge? not being in the middle of a match?

I don't know about you guys but I personally don't think that waiting till hunters are at your village IC, looking for you, only to OOC pass the bijuu to another clan member who you could very well claim is on the opposite side of the world and going, "Nope no bijuu here." is a good situation. I feel like that maybe might be abused and might cause problems.

If not in a match, I should be able to quit being a host and turn it over to whom ever I wish. Just because someone is looking for me does not mean they should just get it. That is uber lame to me. What motivation would my character have to give it over to the enemy? I would give it to my Kage. My character doesn't even know a bijuu council exists. That is an OOC thing, yes?

However, if in the middle of a match, well...that is a forfeit in my book and goes to the challenger.

By that logic "quitting" being a Jinchuriki is also an OOC thing. Unless your character has a reason to randomly release their seal, die, and let a rampaging bijuu out in their village it doesn't make much sense to do that. Though this would all be null if we just voided IC hunts permanently as is wise.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

It is a decision that would have IC consequences which ever method of challenge/hunting I choose, and therefore needs to make IC sense to me. Otherwise the bijuu should not be usable in anything other than OOC challenges and needs to stay out of RP altogether.

What does not make sense is in the event a player wishes to stop being a host that this then becomes an automatic turn over to an outside body to determine the bijuu's fate. If I step down from being a Kage, I get to choose who succeeds me. I see no reason to make a stipulation, a RULE, on how that is handled outside of a match scenario. The '14 days to choose a host clause' would still apply, so it would not even become an activity issue until after that, at which time the rule set would take over without an additional rule being created.

As for randomly releasing a bijuu seal, character death, and rampaging bijuu in the village, that is not required or the inevitable result of stepping down as a host. How many ex-jinchuuriki are alive and well on SL today? I see no reason to kill off my character because I quit being a host when countless others who lose matches are still running around just fine.

[Camel]

It is a decision that would have IC consequences which ever method of challenge/hunting I choose, and therefore needs to make IC sense to me. Otherwise the bijuu should not be usable in anything other than OOC challenges and needs to stay out of RP altogether.

Yeah, no. It's like I said before. *IC* hunts are starting to become wild goose chases, believe me when I say this. The idea of *mixed* challenges is extremely tedious and troublesome for most of our *hardcore* and *serious* roleplayers.

It's either OOC or IC. Pick one and stick with it. Don't make a game out of it.

What does not make sense is in the event a player wishes to stop being a host that this then becomes an automatic turn over to an outside body to determine the bijuu's fate. If I step down from being a Kage, I get to choose who succeeds me. I see no reason to make a stipulation, a RULE, on how that is handled outside of a match scenario. The '14 days to choose a host clause' would still apply, so it would not even become an activity issue until after that, at which time the rule set would take over without an additional rule being created.

I'm going to stop you right here. I thought their was a *week's* time limitation for the village head or leader to assign this specific bijū? When did it become two weeks to choose a host and how come, I haven't heard of this 'clause'? Also It would be a more troubling matter if that *new* host decided to literally troll their potential challenges by making everything a *IC* interaction then switch it up when the concept of character death is expected.

As for randomly releasing a bijuu seal, character death, and rampaging bijuu in the village, that is not required or the inevitable result of stepping down as a host. How many ex-jinchuuriki are alive and well on SL today? I see no reason to kill off my character because I quit being a host when countless others who lose matches are still running around just fine.

That's the problem these days. Character death. It will happen, eventually. You can't be pressing on for *OOC* role play when a majority of the role play we see in the village squares is technically *IC*. I know the concept of the subject is hard to accept at times, when you of course put so many years into a *single* character but it isn't right to basically control every aspect of the role play in general; just because *you* don't want to kill off one of your characters. It gotten to the point that you can't even be sneaky and ninja-like with killing someone's character without suffering some sort of backlash along with it. These shenanigans got to stop or otherwise, the next generation of role players will pick up from this absurd beliefs and basically lead to dramatic downfall of activity on this server. (Think LoB)

[KayentaMoenkopi]

IC consequences...it don't matter how I handle the bijuu challenge, once it is gone, the IC consequence is that my character will no longer have it to RP with. OUTSIDE OF MATCHES...in like SL RP. That is why it needs to make sense to me in an IC way. If it doesn't make sense how can it possibly enter into RP? AM I seriously suggesting we keep bijuu out of RP if it doesn't make sense? NO! I am suggesting that instead, it make sense in an IC manner so that it CAN fit into RP.

I'm going to stop you right here. I thought their was a *week's* time limitation for the village head or leader to assign this specific bijū? When did it become two weeks to choose a host and how come, I haven't heard of this 'clause'? Also It would be a more troubling matter if that *new* host decided to literally troll their potential challenges by making everything a *IC* interaction then switch it up when the concept of character death is expected.

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8707.0.html

No to the following:

The bijuu goes to village or clan leader.

Just send it to the Council from the get-go and cut out the middle man, especially if stripping occurred due to misconduct during a fight. From there, the Council decides on where it goes (obviously they cannot choose themselves).

You voted for it there. Saying NO to one thing...the part about the village/organization choosing the new host. NOT the time they had to do it in. Which is clearly proposed as 14 days. No one made objection to the 14 days. SO that is indeed a voted in rule.

So far...ALL time limits are 14 days except for the amount of time a participant in an active match has to respond...which is 7 days ...and a cool down period between matches which is also 7 days if that gets voted in. And the cool down proposal can be read here...
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8737.0.html

I agree that during one entire event you should stay IC or OOC and not switch in the middle. However, a person after finishing up one and then stating they wished to try it the other way? Not impossible to accommodate. I would prefer a host be all IC or OOC when it comes to match arrangements in order to not make it confusing. I see character death as a separate issue and part of the pre-match stipulations discussion. Totally up to host or challenger. "I don't play to character death" is a non-negotiable preference for any player and should not be a forced route to take. But it should be stated from the start and then held to throughout the proceedings.

[Eric]

... Otherwise the bijuu should not be usable in anything other than OOC challenges and needs to stay out of RP altogether...

Why is this not a thing yet? I might make a thread proposing that this become a thing.

... If I step down from being a Kage, I get to choose who succeeds me. I see no reason to make a stipulation, a RULE, on how that is handled outside of a match scenario...

This is a green apples to red apples kind of comparison. Similar fruit, different properties.

The position of Kage is local to a village, and quite frankly barely affects those outside of the village's RP. The tailed beast are global by comparison, and what happens with them affects all those who accept the biju and the rules hashed out, which is a larger population than a single village.

[Ace]

We will learn from past mistakes.
From my perspective, call out any village or names that have any blame <--- respectful manner.
People will be allowed to have their opinions here. *IF* their opinion is not true or omits more villages or people they speak of, then post those names/villages omitted so it may be on the record. If you chose not to do so, that is fine as well. =)

People seem to constantly lay blame. Why is that occurring? There is an underlying issue that some understand, and others seem not to understand... One of the reasons, people simply want to be heard. Well, *this* forum board is the place to do so. So long as rules are followed, I will not limit your speech. And do not let anyone else do so either. As I have said before, this is a place where you may get everything off your chest. Our job is to understand that people's sensitivity will differ, but we must standardize that otherwise everyone on the site would have been banned by now.

Although someone may be offended, there is not a correlation or association of subsequently a rule being broken.

Point is, to move forward we must look in the past.
I thought we were here to talk openly? Actually, we are...
Sheesh, the more thoughts people keep in their minds, the more anger that builds, leads to more fights, etc...
Time and time again, we go through this mess.

Again, I am not forcing anyone to be here.

It's time we all understand that taking words personally will get you no where.
This is a game. =)