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[Masane]

Let me be clear too. I don't dislike  Kage and I don't not wanna be in Ame to help. My plan to defect was for the sake of rp. Not cuz I have bad feelings or snything. I'd literally be turning Rouge to get hunted down.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

I am getting tired and will read all of your post tomorrow. but...

When I came to SL Suna was dead. The war was over and it was left to die. People opposed me RPing there. I did it anyway. People starting coming back. Things built up and got fun again. And still it was years after that before The Shodai named me to be the Nidaime. I earned it.

That is all I will say on this tonight. But you spit on me and anyone else who has earned their ranks on SL with this move. You do not do this in the face of adversity and hard times. You work through it...not under or around snatching titles in the process.

[Ѕhadow]

I am getting tired and will read all of your post tomorrow. but...

When I came to SL Suna was dead. The war was over and it was left to die. People opposed me RPing there. I did it anyway. People starting coming back. Things built up and got fun again. And still it was years after that before The Shodai named me to be the Nidaime. I earned it.

That is all I will say on this tonight. But you spit on me and anyone else who has earned their ranks on SL with this move. You do not do this in the face of adversity and hard times. You work through it...not under or around snatching titles in the process.

You keep pressing the Kage title like it's his single goal. It's not. From what I keep reading the #1 reason for a new clan is that Kage pushed people away from wanting to be anywhere near Amegakure or even rp there.

[Garō, Ichirou]

I am getting tired and will read all of your post tomorrow. but...

When I came to SL Suna was dead. The war was over and it was left to die. People opposed me RPing there. I did it anyway. People starting coming back. Things built up and got fun again. And still it was years after that before The Shodai named me to be the Nidaime. I earned it.

That is all I will say on this tonight. But you spit on me and anyone else who has earned their ranks on SL with this move. You do not do this in the face of adversity and hard times. You work through it...not under or around snatching titles in the process.

You keep pressing the Kage title like it's his single goal. It's not. From what I keep reading the #1 reason for a new clan is that Kage pushed people away from wanting to be anywhere near Amegakure or even rp there.

Seriously. If I just wanted the title of Kage I could go and make any random clan and be the WhateverKage. It's not about the rank. And that's all you're treating it as

[JayJay]

The reason myself and others backed out of attacking was because of the highly unreasonable defenses he set up for the village. We made topics about the defenses and the consensus was they are BS, but regardless they were never altered.

That's the whole reason why when I went for Son Goku I drew you outside the village. Shadow when not held to any guideline is OP and Keito even went in who is also well above the line in his writing style, fled.


TL;DR
Ever see one punch man? That's what it is.

He and his defenses are Saitama. We are anyone ever.
One punch and we're dead.

I've been pretty preoccupied with various events and work to even notice such a development. While i disagree with such an action, from what has been said I'm not surprised that it happened. But I feel that it could have been done better. Instead of making an entirely new Amegakure to rule under your banner, you could have simply established a colony nation of sorts, with Kage, the Amekage, being the King of the Empire.

At least that's my view on the subject. And while I've never experienced any sort of RP in Amegakure, it seems to be impossible to penetrate it's defensives. You should be proud of that gish!! I would love if my defensives were comparable to one punch man!

[MaliciousWolf]

Hmm.. this is a difficult debate where I can see and understand both arguments being made. On one hand, Ichirou creating a new clan and claiming the title of kage in order to have free reign in village RP and diplomacy would help reboot the village and fast track it onto the path of becoming active once again. On the other hand, the fact that Ichirou gets the title kage and all this freedom would justifiably leave a bitter taste in the mouths of those who spent a lot of time working up to earn that title through regular means or are currently striving now to one day obtain that title in a village already well established and active.

I personally believe every kage should be held to some sort of activity standard in upholding their rank if they are to still partake and be acknowledged in official RP as a kage in my honest opinion, though at the same time the process of someone taking over the rank of kage without prior consent from the one who currently holds the rank needs to be handled delicately and cannot simply take place outright as it currently has been regardless of any efforts made beforehand by the party claiming the title to justify their claim.

The only thing I can think of now where the current Kage is not all that active despite being a good guy, yet does not wish to give up his title to Ichirou or anyone else, is for a summit to be held and an official vote to take place with the members of the original Amegakure clan, or members of the forums, or between GMs, or just between the current kages of the other villages to either accept or reject the new village clan for all future village related RP and Diplomacy and to accept or reject Ichirou's claim to being the kage of this new village. Of course, to make things fair, anyone currently apart of Amegakure officially should have the option and invitation to also apply for the kage title as well and not just Ichirou and then a competition to be held with the winner chosen by most votes. Possibly have candidates put up applications or something so everyone involved in the voting can compare them.

Not only this, but I would also like to see a separate discussion take place around the idea of creating activity guidelines for all kage similar to the guidelines currently in place by biju holders but not nearly as extensive. Mainly just something where every kage should at least post some sort of RP once a week unless otherwise their inability to do so is made known of in advance here on the forums and/or in their clan hall with a specific time frame. Otherwise, they risk forfeit of their rank to anyone who wishes to claim it. Anyone claiming to take over would have to be voted on again, if more than one claims, the person claiming the title with the most votes win. Those claiming may post up an argument or application here on the forums showcasing why they should be choose to replace the inactive kage.

This is just an idea I'm tossing around to take care of the current dilemma while also possibly preventing future dilemmas where the current back and forth arguing taking place does not seem it will ever end where it's simply personal opinion vs personal opinion. An open vote with clear guidelines just seems like the only sensible option at this time to settle everything. Opinions?

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Clearly it is all about just claiming to be Amekage, for as Jay says, another Ame type clan could have been made if Ichi wanted to have an active clan from the land of Rain.

I would like to point out that before people decided to make Ame the latest bijuu battle grounds, instead of taking it to the zones, the clan was active and had rp going on. But the need to kill kill kill has done just that. Killed the village. Just like it did Iwa, which is still struggling to recover, and just like it did Oto. But no one wants to accept the time proven fact that these sort of RPs are not productive to RP but always wind up being a huge debacle and activity killer while driving a big old wedge between us to further divide the community.

Additionally, Ichi has been prone to making threads to check community opinions on a wide variety of things he wishes to try out, everything from just being alive upon his return to what techniques he wishes to buff and employ. I notice not a peep was spoken prior to his claiming to be the Amekage and creating his alternate village.

Subconsciously? I believe he knew it was wrong, that it wouldn't fly, and just did it anyway. Just another thumb of the nose to just about everything. People don't want you to claim all six KG? too bad, I will anyway. People don't think it is right to have the tomoe rinnegan? oh well, I will do it anyway. And so forth and so on. The beauty of it is, in about 6 weeks he will tire of this new bauble and be onto something else, just like with his off shoot Hyuuga clan. And so will you, Shadow: Thieves guild in Suna, defender of Iwa and so on and so forth. No sticking power or commitment to much of anything.

Yes clearly the problem was someone else's activity.

You tell me why a Kage should permit his village to be overrun by anyone. Then we can talk about defenses that are too strong to defeat. When you seek to destroy, if I have to pull the god mod card to stop you, you better believe I will. But you want to actually create RP and build a community? I will back you EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

[Becquerel]

I'd like to voice my opinion. While I don't agree with creating a new clan in order to bolster activity and 'claim' control over it when control is missing, I do understand Ichirou's frustration in the matter. When I first became Otokage, I was not given admin powers in the clan, meaning that it was difficult for me to send out group messages and also impossible to modify the ranks.

An option I had that several were recommending was to create a new Otogakure. This would also solve the issue of inactive players, as the inactives would just sit in the old clan while the active players would (in theory) migrate to the new one. But, I felt that this would actually detract from RP because some players might be hesitant to migrate and might think the whole squabble a little stupid. Which it was. So, I just was patient and waited for responses through PMs. Eventually, I got admin rights so it all worked out.

If anything, I believe that this whole event would be a good advocate for the whole clan linking idea that's been thrown about before. Even though the Otogakure clan halls are mainly OOC content, the same can't be said for clans that don't have villages. Creating the clan link/visitation option would allow people to post in the clan halls of said villages(clans) without leaving their own ones. This would also allow for greater activity within the clans by allowing outsiders guest passes to post.

So instead of focusing on whether or not Ichirou's actions were right, why not use this as a learning opportunity that maybe can push for progress in clan interaction?

[Eric]

What is this? Protest at Ichirou making a new Ame clan?

What is this ridiculousness? You all are acting like he would immediately be recognized as the Amekage. Has everyone forgotten that anyone CAN claim the title of Amekage, but being recognized by the villagers, and the surrounding nations, as a kage is crucial to actually being one? OOCly, I actually don't see the problem with Ichirou's actions; something similar happened when Konoha split, and though it took a long time, it came back together as one (for better or for worse depending on who you ask).

Granted, Ame has a smaller pool of attraction to work with, and I personally was involved in the attack because it was something to do (as the way I posted should hint at, I didn't really have a huge objective) and after spending some time in Ame I kind of considered joining Amegakure (the one under Kage, Ichirou's hadn't been created at that point). Course, I am not going to be joining in the middle of a RP where I am attacking the place. ^_^

Anyways, to keep from digressing too much, I think Ichirou should have a talk to Kage about it, but not per say stop having his own clan up and going. Why?

If many of the prior denizens of Amegakure prefer Kage's method of doing things, they will stay in his Amegakure. Otherwise they may gravitate towards Ichirou's Amegakure. This is an interesting opportunity for RP in my opinion, but one that should be taken logically. Creating a brand new RP village from nothing shouldn't be done, but rather, a bunch of Ame dissidents setting out to recreate the village should be the starting RP for this new Amegakure.

Not all villages work the same, and I think the insistence that the Rain culture should be more like the Mist or even Sand culture is insulting. What if they don't want to have the RP managed by just anybody and everybody? What if they actually want the Kage to be responsible for generating and organizing RP? There is nothing inherently wrong with that if that is what they (the active members of Ame) choose, and trying to talk down to those who see it differently should be an offense punishable by tarnished camel coal.

Creating a new Ame clan may seem fairly drastic, and is a cause for an actual war/civil war, in OOC terms it is not by any means heinous. You want a revolution? Fine, but if Kage and the rest of current Ame doesn't like it, you might need to prepare for a war, IC, not OOC. Settle the matter IC, and may the best leader win.

[JayJay]

I'd like to voice my opinion. While I don't agree with creating a new clan in order to bolster activity and 'claim' control over it when control is missing, I do understand Ichirou's frustration in the matter. When I first became Otokage, I was not given admin powers in the clan, meaning that it was difficult for me to send out group messages and also impossible to modify the ranks.

An option I had that several were recommending was to create a new Otogakure. This would also solve the issue of inactive players, as the inactives would just sit in the old clan while the active players would (in theory) migrate to the new one. But, I felt that this would actually detract from RP because some players might be hesitant to migrate and might think the whole squabble a little stupid. Which it was. So, I just was patient and waited for responses through PMs. Eventually, I got admin rights so it all worked out.

If anything, I believe that this whole event would be a good advocate for the whole clan linking idea that's been thrown about before. Even though the Otogakure clan halls are mainly OOC content, the same can't be said for clans that don't have villages. Creating the clan link/visitation option would allow people to post in the clan halls of said villages(clans) without leaving their own ones. This would also allow for greater activity within the clans by allowing outsiders guest passes to post.

So instead of focusing on whether or not Ichirou's actions were right, why not use this as a learning opportunity that maybe can push for progress in clan interaction?

This clan visitation idea should have been implemented long ago. For the simple purpose of RP! It would be like the custom or not-so-custom clans/villages could better RP with the other villages. I'm not saying they need a village board, but it would make it similar to such. This could lower the amount of alt accounts for the sole purpose for their main account to remain in their clan.

But I can see this is a bit off topic, so I just say don't give him the rank of "Kage" which he's stated that it wasn't about that. Let him have a talk or even fight with Kage to settle things, this event alone could spark some RP that might serve as a catalyst for further RP.

Oh, I see Eric had about the same idea, that's cool Cx

[Ѕhadow]

I'm still confused as to why you all act like you care now and why no one has replied to that question.

Ame has been dead for awhile. I don't doubt that Kage could have blown the village with a nuke and any of you would have blinked.

@Wolf | While a sort of summit would seem like a good idea. That's not how new Kage are picked. Trust me. It's the village itself that picks a new Kage. The other villages have no say. (Which still confuses me why all of you from every village except Ame pretend to give a damn) Otogakure and Iwagakure have gone through the same thing. Being inactive and dead and was brought back via members who held allegiance to the village. And for Kage guidelines: Make a new topic. And we'll post on it. ~

@ Bec, Jay | The clan visitation option can be obtained, but I don't think it will ever happen without someone helping to code such and a big community push for it. Though this is completely off topic.

@ Eric | Rp is the main thing we're trying to tackle here if some sort of rp does come to fruition from this I'm sure we'll reach out to obtain it as long as it doesn't include a fight. Can't win against someone who is written to be un-killable.

@ Kayenta | You're here just because he did something you don't like. You don't give a shit about Ame or what happens to it. Also can you not write anything without a personal jab in it? The one you made towards me has nothing to do with this. Hope you feel better. +1 for Kayenta. Wooh hoo.

None of you do care. Yet the feeling of interjecting is a SL staple that we hold dear. Leave it to Amegakure. If nothing happens then nothing happens. It's not for you to decide cause as I've been repeating a thousand times none of you have any part in the village. Same could be said for myself, but I'm helping a friend.

[Masane]

Clearly it is all about just claiming to be Amekage, for as Jay says, another Ame type clan could have been made if Ichi wanted to have an active clan from the land of Rain.

WHAT? Did you not see how many times he said it's NOT ABOUT THE TITLE?

[Masane]

I have to agree with Shadow. You are only here because he did something that you don't like. You don't care about what happens to Amegakure.
Like he said, shit could get nuked and you wouldn't say or do a damn thing. So why do you care now?

[Trev]

No problem here what so ever, in fact it only creates rp.

I understand your issue Kay, but nothing to really do about it.

Way I see it, not different than similar politics from medieval era.

Kage is the legit ruler, Ichi has a problem with him and wants the crown. Ichi makes his own clan and is attempting to usurp him. Ichi only gains authority if enough people support his cause, but at the end of the day is still illegitimate. Basically at this point he's a rebel group. How does Ichi gain legitimacy?

A. Negotiate's with Kage. Perhaps if he has enough supporters, Kage will step down.
B. Civil War eventually breaks out to decide winner.
C. Attempts diplomacy with foreign nations so they see him as the lead power.

In Real life terms, it's like any war of succession, in Naruto terms is just like Nagato and Hanzo. Two forces, one country.

I suggest they treat it like an rp scenario. Ichi please do roleplay like the Godaime Amekage, but please don't assume you control Amegakure just yet. You are a rebel, the Akatsuki like in the Naruto. Strive to convert your home nation, win a civil war, or plead with other nations to recognize you. 

I see nothing here, but great rp scenarios. Perhaps the people of Ame will turn on Kage, perhaps loyal Ame forces will stomp out Ichi and the pretenders, perhaps world wide conflict happens because say Suna sides with Kage, but Oto sides with Ichi. Truly wonderful.

[Eric]

I'm still confused as to why you all act like you care now and why no one has replied to that question...

Um, politics (I can see some clearly political reasons here)? Being physically in the village during the time of this event either with a main or an alt? The reasons are widely assorted, but the short and sweet of it is because something somewhat out of the recent norm has happened and been brought to the forefront.