Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Rules/Foundation => Topic started by: Timothy on February 22, 2017, 11:41:50 AM
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I looked for many places to see if this particular topic was already breached but could not find anything specific. I do apologize if there is indeed a recent thread regarding such.
It has come to my attention that some individuals claim Tailed Beast Passives like Lava Release and Ink can be kept by an ex host assuming they mastered those bijuu respectively during their times as Jinchuuriki.
I was wondering what the exact 'official' consensus was, as my character Tomi himself has had full Mastery of the 8 tails and 4 tails respectively having kept them longer than the full mastery time required in the current rules. These events of course happened well before said rules were established however I'm certain I can have several people, perhaps a few of the council members themselves vouch for my claim of such, assuming they remember it. So will Tomi be able to claim the related techs he had while hosting those beasts? I seek to question no other claim beyond those. This of course, applies to all past jinchuuriki who have successfully mastered said bijuu at one point or another/can be vouched for as legitimate by whatever sources the Council deems valid.
The Second issue at hand, what happens when a former Host becomes reintegrated with a tailed beast it has mastered prior? Will it be cut by 1/2, 1/3, etc? Or will the full acclimation time stand regardless of past experience?
I think these questions should be discussed and voted upon by the Bijuu Council and integrated into the current rule set, if they have yet to be dealt with.
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I haven't seen someone not claim a passive ability after they're the host though I'm sure there are some. The consensus is that it's allowed; I haven't seen any official topic regarding such. Probably something from the canon that shows you retain passive abilities that I'm too lazy to track down.
I don't see a reason why anyone would have an issue with you claiming such. Let alone a reason as to why you couldn't. Get dem passives man.
As for the mastering a tailed beast and then later retrieving it again, the rules don't specify.
(http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beasts)
They only say you master 1 tail every 3 weeks. So odds are even if you had it before you have to re-master it. I could 100% wrong on that. Someone will call it out if I am. :P
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I was aware of it not being specified. Currently, because it is not specified you are correct in stating that at the moment, one would have to go through the complete process again.
If this particular matter has yet to be discussed however, I do think a further clause of diminished mastery time required for a tailed beast prior possessed/mastered should be considered and elaborated upon by the council.
I'm personally in favor of cutting the time required by one third to one half assuming the person in question can provide reliable witness to their past mastery. (The council decides if the witness(es) are reliable or not in my proposal)
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If this particular matter has yet to be discussed however, I do think a further clause of diminished mastery time required for a tailed beast prior possessed/mastered should be considered and elaborated upon by the council.
The Council doesn't make brand new rules from scratch, at least not by itself. Create a "discussion" topic like you have already done now, and then, when enough chatter has passed, create a "vote" thread to formally have it passed by the general voters.
Personally, if you achieved mastery, I don't see why you should retain some passive abilities, but they should not be to the same extent as that of someone with the beast still within them.
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That way it has been ever since I first got a bijuu was that if you master it and lose it you can keep the abilities it grants you, sand, lava, whatever. Because Gaara maintained his sand abilities after losing Shukaku and didn't seem to decrease in power at all, honestly.
As for mastery if you mastered the bijuu and then got it back you didn't have to master it again. If it wasnt all the way mastered when you lost it then you had to start over.
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Because Gaara maintained his sand abilities after losing Shukaku and didn't seem to decrease in power at all, honestly.
That's because Gaara's sand manipulation didn't come from the Shukaku, it comes from plot (His mom's dying wish "I will protect you forever").
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Because Gaara maintained his sand abilities after losing Shukaku and didn't seem to decrease in power at all, honestly.
That's because Gaara's sand manipulation didn't come from the Shukaku, it comes from plot (His mom's dying wish "I will protect you forever").
No, no it doesn't. That's just the automatic shield.
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Because Gaara maintained his sand abilities after losing Shukaku and didn't seem to decrease in power at all, honestly.
That's because Gaara's sand manipulation didn't come from the Shukaku, it comes from plot (His mom's dying wish "I will protect you forever").
No, no it doesn't. That's just the automatic shield.
There's nothing definitive in the manga stating it was a host ability. The dude's dad has it and his mom did plot stuff. Plus, his dad was never a host.
http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Naruto_547_14#gohere
Not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just saying there's no clear cut examples with Gaara, unless if it can be shown elsewhere.
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Because Gaara maintained his sand abilities after losing Shukaku and didn't seem to decrease in power at all, honestly.
That's because Gaara's sand manipulation didn't come from the Shukaku, it comes from plot (His mom's dying wish "I will protect you forever").
No, no it doesn't. That's just the automatic shield.
There's nothing definitive in the manga stating it was a host ability. The dude's dad has it and his mom did plot stuff. Plus, his dad was never a host.
http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Naruto_547_14#gohere
Not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just saying there's no clear cut examples with Gaara, unless if it can be shown elsewhere.
It is definitively stated that Shukaku has and gives the ability to control sand. His father has Magnet Release, not sand control, he just uses it to mimic Shukaku's power. His mom certainly did do plot stuff and yes his dad was never a host.
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I think Athos is right, the wiki claims the third Kazekage learned his iron style by watching a previous Jinch (who obviously wasn't Gaara) and the wiki claims that really old dude could use sand, although that doesn't have a footnote, so take that one with a grain of salt.
As for Tomi's initial claim, and just my opinion on the matter and not authority as a council member
1. Passive abilities:
You get to keep them, although I do recall a thread where people complained and wanted a limit on this. As the complaint was people didn't want a user to gain access to multiple elements. Like Mastering the Ichibi, Yonbi, and Gobi and claiming sand release, Lava, and Steam. There was no official rule, but if you want to be extra safe, I'd say pick between Yoton and Ink, but not both. But you do you, just a suggestion.
2. Normally in the past, if one had full mastery of the beast when they got it back they could claim full mastery.
But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
In the event that the community can't get a consensus on what exactly they want. Although yes, if a vote is had and people want something overwhelmingly, it need not go anywhere else. I just don't usually have faith in SL people agreeing >>
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
It involves Bijuu so it makes sense that the council itself would also vote on it.
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It's literally never been a problem can't we just write it in as is? As for mastering all the bijuu and getting a ton of free KG well since we have 10 bijuu now (not counting the Mazo since you can't or rather don't get anything substantial from hosting it) if someone wants to spend A LITTLE UNDER THREE YEARS mastering them all I say more power to you.
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
It involves Bijuu so it makes sense that the council itself would also vote on it.
Why does the Council need to be forwarded it? The Council's job is to rule on rule violations, anything else they do biju related is as players, jinchs, etc. The Council would be voting right along with the rest of us.
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
It involves Bijuu so it makes sense that the council itself would also vote on it.
Why does the Council need to be forwarded it? The Council's job is to rule on rule violations, anything else they do biju related is as players, jinchs, etc. The Council would be voting right along with the rest of us.
The council's grasp on what exactly their job can best be described as "tenuous at best".
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It's literally never been a problem can't we just write it in as is? As for mastering all the bijuu and getting a ton of free KG well since we have 10 bijuu now (not counting the Mazo since you can't or rather don't get anything substantial from hosting it) if someone wants to spend A LITTLE UNDER THREE YEARS mastering them all I say more power to you.
If everyone agrees, and there are no discrepancies, be my guest and write them in.
I mean, I get your logic, but I don't believe the argument was predicated on mastering them all, and not everyone is starting from scratch. Take someone like Tomi for example who has already mastered two, therefore if there are no rules can use Yoton and Ink Release. Assuming he gets say the Gobi and Ichibi, he could add sand and steam to that resume in half a year. That's 4 unique traits that have been stacked on to his normal character.
So I don't think people want the host to be able to keep stacking up biju abilities. I would agree with you if everyone was at the starting mark, but we have multiple people who have already mastered multiple beast. Anyway, just my opinion on the matter.
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I mean the abilities you get aren't very substantial.
Shukaku's jinchūriki can create magnetic forces and manipulate sand.
Matatabi's jinchūriki can produce blue flames.
Isobu's jinchūriki can materialise coral.
Son Gokū's jinchūriki can create and manipulate lava.
Kokuō's jinchūriki can use steam.
Saiken's jinchūriki can produce corrosive alkali.
Chōmei's jinchūriki can fly and, in the anime, create silk that can suppress chakra absorption techniques.
Gyūki's jinchūriki can produce ink.
Kurama's jinchūriki can quickly regenerate and detect negative emotions.
I feel like I'm just looking at an average SL character.
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... But if you guys want these to be included in the actual rules, once the biju council is up and running, and enough people want them explicably stated, the community can forward it to the council.
Could just have a vote and get it into the rules sooner. Why would this be forwarded to the Council?
It involves Bijuu so it makes sense that the council itself would also vote on it.
Why does the Council need to be forwarded it? The Council's job is to rule on rule violations, anything else they do biju related is as players, jinchs, etc. The Council would be voting right along with the rest of us.
The council's grasp on what exactly their job can best be described as "tenuous at best".
Seriously though, it's like they have to be reminded every other week that they're not Congress, they're the Supreme Court. If it's another thing the 1st group can claim, it's that we never tried such blatant power grabs.
I agree with Athos though. The Bijuu passives are drops in the bucket compared to the average ten page list everyone runs around with these days. Who even cares about limits anymore?
I mean, besides me. <<
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You misunderstood me. I'm saying just let the council members know of this. Not that they themselves need to have a totally separate vote on the matter. That doesn't make any sense.
As I understand it Ace and Hades are the only two that don't know currently...just going by their last login.
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You misunderstood me. I'm saying just let the council members know of this. Not that they themselves need to have a totally separate vote on the matter. That doesn't make any sense.
As I understand it Ace and Hades are the only two that don't know currently...just going by their last login.
Ah, that makes sense then. The biju rules thread will be updated if the proposition is made a rule, so the Council won't totally be in the dark about it.
It's literally never been a problem can't we just write it in as is? As for mastering all the bijuu and getting a ton of free KG well since we have 10 bijuu now (not counting the Mazo since you can't or rather don't get anything substantial from hosting it) if someone wants to spend A LITTLE UNDER THREE YEARS mastering them all I say more power to you.
If everyone agrees, and there are no discrepancies, be my guest and write them in.
I mean, I get your logic, but I don't believe the argument was predicated on mastering them all, and not everyone is starting from scratch. Take someone like Tomi for example who has already mastered two, therefore if there are no rules can use Yoton and Ink Release. Assuming he gets say the Gobi and Ichibi, he could add sand and steam to that resume in half a year. That's 4 unique traits that have been stacked on to his normal character.
So I don't think people want the host to be able to keep stacking up biju abilities. I would agree with you if everyone was at the starting mark, but we have multiple people who have already mastered multiple beast. Anyway, just my opinion on the matter.
If someone were to acquire all of the tailed beasts at once and keep all of them long enough to master them all, it could be done in less than a year. Heck, getting a biju, mastering it, then trading it to get the other elements would be a more feasible strategy for such a scheme.
I think the mastery time should still exist (even if not full capacity) even if the beast was previously mastered. I mean, taking into account custom chakra cloaks and tailed beast mode techniques, you would think that you would have to earn the beast's respect again after losing it or something to that flavor, especially if someone else bonded with the beast.
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It takes 15 weeks to master a Bijuu and there are 52 weeks in a year Eric so there's no way you could master them all in under a year unless you've already mastered all but three.
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I'll go with both Lava Release and Ink for now until the community/council decides I shouldn't have access to both. I don't intend to abuse any potential loop hole to cause any complaints so hopefully I should be fine.
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I'll go with both Lava Release and Ink for now until the community/council decides I shouldn't have access to both. I don't intend to abuse any potential loop hole to cause any complaints so hopefully I should be fine.
Even with both you're still well under the "meta".
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It takes 15 weeks to master a Bijuu and there are 52 weeks in a year Eric so there's no way you could master them all in under a year unless you've already mastered all but three.
That's assuming that you wait to capture each one until you've mastered the last. I don't remember anything in the rules saying that you could only master one at a time, so if you captured all 9 at the same time, it'd only take the 15 weeks, not 135.
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It takes 15 weeks to master a Bijuu and there are 52 weeks in a year Eric so there's no way you could master them all in under a year unless you've already mastered all but three.
That's assuming that you wait to capture each one until you've mastered the last. I don't remember anything in the rules saying that you could only master one at a time, so if you captured all 9 at the same time, it'd only take the 15 weeks, not 135.
There is no rule against it, but how would you master them all at the same time? You can only master a biju and gain it's abilities when it's sealed inside you and you master them. So you'd have to seal the Reibi, master it, take it out and throw in the Ichibi, etc. Then if you have all biju it becomes more problematic, as the other biju you have that aren't sealed inside you are to be treated as summons. Which means they hate you, which means you may never be able to fully master it since it will forever hate you.
Edit: Or I suppose the user could keep the other biju sealed away and not as a summon, but still, I don't know how you would master more than one at a time, as I believe you need them sealed inside you to gain the abilities?
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You can only master a bijuu you're the Jinchuriki of...
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It takes 15 weeks to master a Bijuu and there are 52 weeks in a year Eric so there's no way you could master them all in under a year unless you've already mastered all but three.
That's assuming that you wait to capture each one until you've mastered the last. I don't remember anything in the rules saying that you could only master one at a time, so if you captured all 9 at the same time, it'd only take the 15 weeks, not 135.
There is no rule against it, but how would you master them all at the same time? You can only master a biju and gain it's abilities when it's sealed inside you and you master them. So you'd have to seal the Reibi, master it, take it out and throw in the Ichibi, etc. Then if you have all biju it becomes more problematic, as the other biju you have that aren't sealed inside you are to be treated as summons. Which means they hate you, which means you may never be able to fully master it since it will forever hate you.
Edit: Or I suppose the user could keep the other biju sealed away and not as a summon, but still, I don't know how you would master more than one at a time, as I believe you need them sealed inside you to gain the abilities?
I don't see a rule saying you can't have multiple sealed inside you. In fact, the only even remotely relevant rule I can find is: "There is no limit to the number of bijuu one person can own." Maybe it's common courtesy here to only have one, but if there isn't a rule, then you can be sure someone will use that to their advantage at some point. If someone sealed every bijuu in them, then there are no rules saying mastery is one at a time. So in the potential scenario where someone gets all of them at the same time and seals them all, it'd be 15 weeks total. And even I think it's kind of stupid, but there's nothing stopping it.
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Well it is in fact a rule you can't host multiple beasts. It was in the old rules and I'd imagine it's not in the new ones because it is so implicit no one even thought of it.
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Well it is in fact a rule you can't host multiple beasts. It was in the old rules and I'd imagine it's not in the new ones because it is so implicit no one even thought of it.
Implicit for people who were around and involved in biju during that time. If some fresh blood were to actually enter the biju scene (as has happened before) the precedent falls to "well, it's not against the rules".
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Well it is in fact a rule you can't host multiple beasts. It was in the old rules and I'd imagine it's not in the new ones because it is so implicit no one even thought of it.
Implicit for people who were around and involved in biju during that time. If some fresh blood were to actually enter the biju scene (as has happened before) the precedent falls to "well, it's not against the rules".
Exactly. It's not in the current rules, so it doesn't apply, even if you follow it regardless. If it got put back in the current rules, then that's another matter. But as it stands, you could potentially master every bijuu in 15 weeks total.
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Well it is in fact a rule you can't host multiple beasts. It was in the old rules and I'd imagine it's not in the new ones because it is so implicit no one even thought of it.
Implicit for people who were around and involved in biju during that time. If some fresh blood were to actually enter the biju scene (as has happened before) the precedent falls to "well, it's not against the rules".
Or we could just do what we know is correct instead. Go check the rules they don't say anything about No God Modding either.
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Wouldn't be too hard to have it put back into the rules, assuming we have a topic on it to gain the community consensus which can then lead to the council putting it in if the community is unanimous/mostly unamimous.
Personally for the sake of things, I think it should be against the rules to host more than one tailed beast.
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Just seems like a waste of time to discuss things we all already do, that have always worked. I'm pretty sure if someone was going to dispute not being able to host multiple bijuu they would have done it at some point between now and the start of SL and that hasn't happened. It's a rule, anybody who knows bijuu fights knows it's a rule. It's not going to cause any problems and nobodies going to complain if that's added to the rules without a topic about it unless they just feel like being contrarian.
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Just seems like a waste of time to discuss things we all already do, that have always worked. I'm pretty sure if someone was going to dispute not being able to host multiple bijuu they would have done it at some point between now and the start of SL and that hasn't happened. It's a rule, anybody who knows bijuu fights knows it's a rule. It's not going to cause any problems and nobodies going to complain if that's added to the rules without a topic about it unless they just feel like being contrarian.
I don't think anyone's saying that it should be a thing, my only argument is it's not technically illegal as it stands now.
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Just seems like a waste of time to discuss things we all already do, that have always worked. I'm pretty sure if someone was going to dispute not being able to host multiple bijuu they would have done it at some point between now and the start of SL and that hasn't happened. It's a rule, anybody who knows bijuu fights knows it's a rule. It's not going to cause any problems and nobodies going to complain if that's added to the rules without a topic about it unless they just feel like being contrarian.
I don't think anyone's saying that it should be a thing, my only argument is it's not technically illegal as it stands now.
And according to our current bijuu rules neither is god modding. It just isn't an issue we need to address.
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If people are worried about loop holes, then let us address it to alleviate their fears. As Athos stated, it should be 'common sense'. However there isn't any specific harm in having it restated in an official format. Those players who have concerns will be satisfied, and those who already followed the concept unofficially won't have anything changed.
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Just seems like a waste of time to discuss things we all already do, that have always worked. I'm pretty sure if someone was going to dispute not being able to host multiple bijuu they would have done it at some point between now and the start of SL and that hasn't happened. It's a rule, anybody who knows bijuu fights knows it's a rule. It's not going to cause any problems and nobodies going to complain if that's added to the rules without a topic about it unless they just feel like being contrarian.
Actually, the notion has been questioned before:
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8705.0.html
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8857.0.html
Seems obvious but it is not technically a rule. Should people be allowed to seal multiple bijuu inside themselves? Should this apply to custom things as well? Like if someone rp's that they have a demon of a non-bijuu nature sealed in them should they be allowed to seal a bijuu in them as well? This is probably a pretty niche thing but we are supposed to be closing all loopholes we can.
Bocchiere wasn't even new to biju fighting at that time and he still prodded the issue. A vote to formally include it in the rules would be a nice touch. I can make the topic later today if nobody else gets to it first.
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That's not what that first topic is asking and the second one is just a roundabout way of asking if Warren was allowed to be the host of Shukaku and a custom demon at the same time. Just add it to the rules.
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It may not be a rule, but if someone were to do such a thing, they would have to cite canon evidence. If you can have multiple beats inside you at once, what's the point of the mazo? Even Naruto only held small portions of each Tailed Beast's chakra, he did not host all within his body at the same time. Heck I don't even think with SL supped up buffs anyone could make a seal that could hold that many biju.
What people could do however, is take small portions of each biju's chakra. I remember there use to be a rule saying not to tamper with the biju's chakra. So if that rule were put back into place, it would stop that. Also if that rule isn't in place, people could make Gold and Silver Brother equals by splitting biju chakra up. So there seems to be a few rules lost in translation. So we can open a thread for each and try to vote them back in, or we can go Athos route and just put them in, as most of these rules have long been in place, and may have been accidentally forgotten about.
So I guess discuss what we should do, then move on. Just trying to make progress and get these rules on the books or accept them as gone.