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[Hitler-Chan]

Okay! So in recent weeks I've been wondering about a few things related to Senjutsu chakra, and the Preta path, or chakra absorption techniques in general. More specifically the absorbtion of senjutsu chakra into a non senjutsu user. The argument goes around SL, the users of sage mode arguing one way, and the non senjutsu users (obviously) argue another. So, here's the question; How much Senjutsu must be absorbed before a non-Senjutsu user turns to stone?

 Personally I think it would be a low amount, (Not Biased!), considering when naruto was first learning to master sage mode up at The frog mountain, Fukusaku rubbed the oil on naruto to help him get a better feel of Natural energy, and if any of you remembers as clearly as I do, naruto instantly took on the characteristics of a frog. Then, when he was trying to gather without the oil, he used clones to help speed up the process, and by that time he had a better feel for natural energy, and could control it much better than when he first started; Yet! He was turning into a frog within seconds of gathering, and this went on for a whole day, proved by how many times you heard Fukusaku smacking Naruto with that board.

What do you guys think?

[Kage]

Absorbed Senjutsu chakra always has negative effects if the absorber does not bear any knowledge (in this case, Sage Mode resets) of natural energy control. Though what exactly those negative effects are depends on the Sage Mode being used. Toad/Frog Sage Mode turns unskilled absorbers to frog stone statues.

In short, Preta Path or similar techniques can't absorb everything without consequence.

[Eric]

How much really depends on the source in my opinion. If you are absorbing it from a technique, that is one thing. Absorbing it directly from a concentrating force (like someone gathering natural energy I.E Naruto finally besting the Preta Path in his fight with Pain) is another.

In SL terms, a senjutsu enhanced technique might can be absorbed longer without serious consequences than sucking senjutsu right out of a victim. At the same time, separating natural energy from the physical and mental energies could delay the negative effects of absorbing natural energy, though that would, as already stated in the previous post, require some degree of control over natural energy (I.E sage mode resets).

Since natural Rinnegan users cannot also be sage mode users according to the reset system, then Preta Path users (who resetted to get Rinnegan, not pirated mind you) would not have any degree of natural energy control, and so would probably turn to stone rather fast. Otherwise, situation probably depends on the number of sage mode resets they have.

[Tsuyo]

The way I see it is that a person needs a full body's worth of senjutsu chakra, or somewhere around that amount. I say this because when Naruto was caught by the preta path, He had used half of his senjutsu chakra with one rasen shuriken. He absorbed this much without batting an eye to the Senjutsu.

Naruto had to go to into full sage mode once again(while being absorbed, so keep in mind that there's even more chakra in the mix and once that was fully exhausted, the path began to turn into stone. Not to mention that it absorbed the Senjutsu techs that jiraiya dished out like it was nothing. (I think they were senjutsu techs. Like the one with the oil, wind and flames combination.)

Just leads me to believe that it takes a little more than a couple of Perfect form SM worth of chakra.

[Eric]

Again, the difference is how it was absorbed. Absorbing it from the techniques using Preta path and absorbing it from an actual person channeling senjutsu chakra are two different dishes to eat. Absorbing the techniques would be leading to less exposure, becuase with time the techniques would weaken and have less natural energy in it.

On the other hand, taking out dat senjutsu directly from someone would be much more risky, and probably lead to a swifter end.

[Hitler-Chan]

Being as I have loads of time on my hands (Thanks Kamui. <3), I am going to watch the whole fight between Naruto and Pain. The jiraiya fight does not count considering he had imperfect sage mode at the time. I will post my findings in an hour or so.

[Camel]

The Preta Path (餓鬼道, Gakidō) grants the user the ability to absorb an infinite amount of chakra in any form using the Blocking Technique Absorption Seal. Pain channelled the Preta Path through the corpse of a Kusagakure shinobi.

This ability was primarily defensive in nature as it is capable of absorbing most ninjutsu-based techniques, thereby nullifying its effect. This technique can also take the form of a barrier around the user's entire body, allowing them to absorb attacks from all directions. In addition to this, the Preta Path is able to absorb chakra from an individual through physical contact.

Straight from the Naruto Wikipedia.
It just happens to say any form of chakra in infinite amounts.

A highly advanced sealing technique granted by the Preta Path, that is capable of absorbing any chakra, regardless of any shape or nature transformation, and dispersing it within one's body by spinning the chakra within one's body in the opposite direction. As a result, this technique can absorb any ninjutsu based technique, regardless of power, without harming the user. Should the user get close enough to grab the opponent, the barrier can absorb chakra right out of an individual's body, effectively draining them.

Now let's look at this entire fight from the anime (http://youtu.be/f8ahBJs2Jfc), it shows that the Preta Path can directly absorb Senjutsu-based chakra from that user due to the Blocking Technique Absorption Seal but when it just happens to absorb too much of the Natural chakras directly from that user; the one casting the Blocking Technique Absorption Seal becomes affected by the negative side-effects (It's hard to control Natural chakras unless that person happens to be a Sage) of having absorbed so much Natural chakras. (Hence that user is turned into a stone statue.) Proof! -> http://youtu.be/f8ahBJs2Jfc

[Eric]

The question was how much, and referring to an earlier bit, Naruto, when he had been captured by the Preta Path, was already low on senjutsu. He had used a rasenshuriken and two rasengan, to his benefit, taking out two paths. Considering his limit by the time he was caught by the Preta Path, enough time and actual energy had been spent that he didn't have much senjutsu left to begin with.

So it wouldn't take an entire perfect sage mode to get frogified, we can say that. However, it might would be more than a turn of direct sucking presuming the Preta Path user isn't low on chakra as it stands.

[Hitler-Chan]

Whether the Preta path CAN absorb Senjutsu chakra was not the article in question, as Eric stated. The question was the amount of chakra needed to be absorbed to Frog, and eventually Stone a Preta path user. Naruto spammed his most chakra weighing techniques against pain, from multiple uses of rasengan, to probably his most expensive move, the Rasenshuriken. Now the full bodies worth of Senjutsu theory is garbagé (French Garbage; Really Bad stuff), if anyone watched the fight recently they'd know that for sure. Naruto stated himself that when the Preta path first absorbed a Rasenshuriken, it was simply a ninjutsu based one. Then, when he used a double rasengan, he stated specifically it was a sage version of the jutsu. (note I am watching as I am posting). Okay, I've watched the part in question, when the Preta path began absorbing chakra from naruto specifically. Naruto by that time had thrown a Rasenshuriken, and used a Double rasengan, so he had little more than 25% percent Sage chakra left, before the Preta path sucked him dry of the stuff. Then he gathered for no more than 10 seconds, if that, and the Preta path absorbed it. So he gathered basically nothing, maybe another ten percent. Maybe. So I'd say 35% would stone someone.

[Nathan]

Doesn't contribute to the topic at hand despite being a Sage Mode user. Problem?

[Eric]

Percentile will only get you so far with the kind of RP SL does as far as zoning goes, though I can agree with the approximate 1/3 of a full sage mode for a Preta Path user with great amounts of chakra left. However, if the Preta user is lower on chakra, then it would take a shorter amount of time for the concentration of natural energy to build up in them (in theory anyways, considering balance and concentration) and vice versa, with 1/3 being either the max or the average bar.

[Luka]

Senjutsu practitioners learn to draw the energy of nature inside of them, blending it with their own chakra (created from spiritual and physical energy within the shinobi). This adds a new dimension of power to the sage's chakra, resulting in the creation of "senjutsu chakra"

"If the user takes in too much natural energy, the user will start to turn into a toad and, eventually, turn to stone."

Natural Energy =/= Senjutsu chakra.
Natural Energy + Chakra = Senjutsu Chakra

Preta Path (Fūjutsu Kyūin) "is capable of absorbing any chakra, regardless of any shape or nature transformation, and dispersing it within one's body ..."

Preta Path > Senjutsu Chakra
Preta Path < Natural Energy

Fūjutsu Kyūin can absorb Senjutsu all day long and not suffer any consequences. IF someone (not just a Preta Path, anyone with chakra absorbing skills) absorbs chakra from a Sage who is in the process of gathering Natural Energy, they take the natural energy too, which prompts the petrification.

[Eric]

Can't argue with that logic, except natural energy is a component of senjutsu yet still, so there would still be a limit on how much of that they could absorb. Even if it is only a third of senjutsu, natural energy is still a component that would be absorbed along with physical and spiritual energies.

Dispersing senjutsu through the body would still get the natural energy within it would it not? Otherwise you would just be extracting the regular chakra and leaving the natural energy out of the equation, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Luka]

You're assuming that chakra is the only thing able to move between the parties involved. Consider that  one person is able to gather natural energy for another, such  as in the case of Fukasaku and Shima sitting on Jiraiya's shoulders. They gathered the energy for him to use.

Since the two occasions where Naruto turned someone into a frog were when he was motionless and taking in natural energy, it's not unreasonable to think that maybe the chakra and the nature energy are separate. While he was having his chakra drained, he sent over the natural energy to Preta Path Pain, much like the sage toads did for Jiraiya, the difference being that Pain wasn't a sage and couldn't handle it.

It's simple, straightforward, makes sense and avoids the headache of trying to write a formula for how much of X goes into a jutsu and how much can Y take, etc..

[Eric]

Preta Path (Fūjutsu Kyūin) "is capable of absorbing any chakra, regardless of any shape or nature transformation, and dispersing it within one's body ..."

If the two were as separated as you assume, then the user should not run out of sage mode by getting their chakra absorbed, or if they do, then the Path should be stoned right then and there.

Senjutsu practitioners learn to draw the energy of nature inside of them, blending it with their own chakra (created from spiritual and physical energy within the shinobi). This adds a new dimension of power to the sage's chakra, resulting in the creation of "senjutsu chakra"

That in itself outlines that natural energy and the ordinary chakra are not separated enough. As 'simple' and 'straightforward' as otherwise seems, it would open the doors for a much more complicated problem of sages not losing sage mode because they 'preserved the natural energy' inside themselves while letting their chakra get sucked away.

And no one said make a formula. If SL were about formulas then there would have been chakra limits imposed by now.