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[Mei]

But we're talking just dodge here, so presuming the archer's aiming is just as fast as (or faster than) the movement of the target (shinobi vs shinobi, pretty likely), is aiming for the most likely to hit part of the opponent's body (center body, rather than an extremity), and is not interrupted in any fashion, then just sheer bodily speed alone (which the two share) is not enough to dodge the arrow.

Since in SL "i'm just as fast if not fast enough" is a common trait, then it would be a tough selling point to dodge if all of those aforementioned factors are in play (speeds are the same, neither side is trying any tricks or using chakra *and center body is the target).

Basically. Then you have to decide: compromise, continue, or end?

I know all of this is off-topic.

So considering that zoning and RP are different, it makes sense that people are more quantitative while zoning whereas they are more qualitative while RPing.

[Becquerel]

And for obvious reasons, taijutsu (and bukijutsu) is faster than ninjutsu. Yet every once in a while, you may see a person throw up hand-signs as you are throwing a punch within close proximity of the other person. It's just makes you wanna scratch my head. (・_・)ゞ゛

I have that same issue. Lets say your character can punch as fast as the fastest boxer (fastest punch is about 44mph I think) or perhaps even faster than that because you're a ninja. It's strange to me that people would be able to preform necessary handsigns and respond with a technique within the period of time it takes for a fist to hit your face. Some people opt out of the handsigns and just jump right into the technique...But what about when you're up against someone going so fast and can perceive it (sharingan) but can not physically react fast enough to respond to it?
Oh well, it's a tricky situation.

[UettoSenju]

It is absurd to relate RL circumstances to the Narutoverse. In what way or fashion would a rl ninja be like the ones from the manga/anime in terms of physical attributes?

Now I don't mean all of them. No doubt some are not more physically powerful then rl people of extremely high physical build.

But tell me where you have seen people in rl that can jump from tree branches like these guys do? And that was just when they were Genin we saw that. They were jumping rather extremely large leaps using nothing but physical powers I am 100% certain.

Rock Lee surpass any rl limits we have by so much it isn't even funny. You find me one guy in this world that can thrust his fist into solid earth and rip out a large root system of a tree using pure strength.

Rock Lee trained his his physical attributes to this level. No chakra but rather pure physical attributes. This being without any gates being open. 

They guy removed weights from his legs that when dropped rummbled a building, caused craters I believe, and knocked up dirt several meters into the area. No person on earth is gonna be able to move a leg wearing something like that much less move around with them on like he did.

I have hunted my entire life. Shot many bows. You can actually follow the arrow with your eye. This coming from high quality compound bows and even crossbows. If I recall correctly Rock Lee was moving faster than a normal human eye could see. Sharigan was able to track him.

So yeah I would argue that a guy like that could defend against you arrow at such range. His reflex speeds would be enough to save him.

Arguing rl human limits is an invalid response to backing up why your attack would work.

[Becquerel]

Arguing rl human limits is an invalid response to backing up why your attack would work.

That's kind of why I think quantitative RPing is a bit silly, because it'll be like the price is right. The person who posts first is just asking to have the next guy to just +1 on him. And it just makes people come up with silly numbers, like what I mentioned earlier about 1 million decibels.

[Mei]

Uetto, you sound like a Rock Lee fanboy. Anyways...

But tell me where you have seen people in rl that can jump from tree branches like these guys do? And that was just when they were Genin we saw that. They were jumping rather extremely large leaps using nothing but physical powers I am 100% certain.

Rock Lee surpass any rl limits we have by so much it isn't even funny. You find me one guy in this world that can thrust his fist into solid earth and rip out a large root system of a tree using pure strength.

And there are videos of people punching through many blocks of concrete so I would think they can punch through dirt. >.>

Also, did you not think that maybe Rock Lee was using chakra?
When he stopped Sasuke's kick: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/36/14
When he got his kick past Sasuke's guard: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/37/17
Rock Lee may not be able to use ninjutsu but he can still use his chakra to enhance himself.
So who to say he didn't use chakra to get that large root from underground? >.>

I have hunted my entire life. Shot many bows. You can actually follow the arrow with your eye. This coming from high quality compound bows and even crossbows. If I recall correctly Rock Lee was moving faster than a normal human eye could see. Sharigan was able to track him.

So yeah I would argue that a guy like that could defend against you arrow at such range. His reflex speeds would be enough to save him.

Forgive me when I say that I don't believe this because of that eps of Mythbusters I previous posted. And here's another site: http://www.mythbusterstheexhibition.com/science-content/dodge-a-bullet/
Plus, I have watched many videos of target practice with bows and crossbows and I could not follow the arrow with my eyes, but I'll get a real life look to see if that's honestly true.

 

So yeah I would argue that a guy like that could defend against you arrow at such range. His reflex speeds would be enough to save him.

Arguing rl human limits is an invalid response to backing up why your attack would work.

Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you. Because I've read your previous posts and you think you (and your moves) can beat anything. Like the time you posted how your Raigou: Senjusatsu would beat TSBs, even though it has been stated that only senjutsu can stand up to it. So I know you're not a man of reason. It's people like you who make zoning frustrating.

EDIT: I forgot to add that 'Raigou: Senjusatsu' is a filler (non-canon) move anyway.

[Becquerel]

Mei, I would like to argue with you about that fact. Here's probably one of the best archers around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
Watch some of his feats and you'll see that he could do some impressive stuff!

And here's the whole fight between Lee and Gaara.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSo4HleONLg
I really doubt anyone in real life could bounce around a room like that or move that fast. It's just impossible.

But I also feel that zoning is more like a dance between two players that attempt to create something amazing. Not something where one person is a top-level flamenco dancer while the other one just twerks. But, that's where compromise comes into play, unless you're played on agreed terms.

[Bocchiere]

I just read topics to see how many ">.>" faces Mei is going to make each post.

[Mei]

Mei, I would like to argue with you about that fact. Here's probably one of the best archers around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
Watch some of his feats and you'll see that he could do some impressive stuff!

And here's the whole fight between Lee and Gaara.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSo4HleONLg
I really doubt anyone in real life could bounce around a room like that or move that fast. It's just impossible.

But I also feel that zoning is more like a dance between two players that attempt to create something amazing. Not something where one person is a top-level flamenco dancer while the other one just twerks. But, that's where compromise comes into play, unless you're played on agreed terms.

Becquerel, I think you also missed the point where I mentioned "...and what am about to say does not involve the use of chakra, but only physical training."

Also I saw that archery video already so I am not impressed by it.
http://www.lykopis.com/lars-andersen-fact-or-fiction/
Most, if not all, of his trick shots are not full draw, meaning you are not seeing the full power/speed of the arrow.

I can agree with that 'dance' concept but would you rather have someone who can dance at your level (at least) or someone who can't really dance at all? You can only take so many broken toes until you say 'enough is enough'. >.>

EDIT:
Also, Lars Andersen is not one of the best archers around, probably the fastest, but not the best.
Here's another one: http://geekdad.com/2015/01/danish-archer/

[UettoSenju]

Actually Mei I'm pretty easy to compromise with. I'm not afraid to take some damage. I'd probably let you arrow hit me, if I were not in Sage Mode or Gates, but I'd deflect it enough to not be a fatal wound.

And Guy himself stated Lee was using pure physical attributes I do believe.

And yes I am a Rock Lee fan boy.

Also punching through blocks and solid ground are two totally different things with the edition of ripping a massive root out of the ground.


And I never said that jutsu.  My Gift of the Hermit is a custom style I invented long ago. I rped a year or so working on it while training at the Fire Temple.

In the end I'd have to guess this bow would be more complex than that of a normal rl one. So I'd be fitting into the Narutoverse. Much like the one used by that spider guy. The bow could leave craters if I recall correctly.

Look at when the senbon launcher was used in 156 I think. They were like five feet from each other. Point Blank Range for most weapons. All the senbon were deflected and one grabbed in mid air by a guy standing two feet to the side of the target.

[Mei]

Actually Mei I'm pretty easy to compromise with. I'm not afraid to take some damage. I'd probably let you arrow hit me, if I were not in Sage Mode or Gates, but I'd deflect it enough to not be a fatal wound.

Like I said "......and what am about to say does not involve the use of chakra, but only physical training."

And Guy himself stated Lee was using pure physical attributes I do believe.

This part is now irrelevant since I already showed examples of Rock Lee using chakra in his taijutsu.
This is also applies to the 'ripping a massive root out of the ground'.

And I never said that jutsu.  My Gift of the Hermit is a custom style I invented long ago. I rped a year or so working on it while training at the Fire Temple.

I don't think it's 'appropriate' to say you invented it when the term 'Gift of the Hermit' was mentioned in the manga 6 years ago.

In the end I'd have to guess this bow would be more complex than that of a normal rl one. So I'd be fitting into the Narutoverse. Much like the one used by that spider guy. The bow could leave craters if I recall correctly.

Look at when the senbon launcher was used in 156 I think. They were like five feet from each other. Point Blank Range for most weapons. All the senbon were deflected and one grabbed in mid air by a guy standing two feet to the side of the target.

Obviously, my bow is not a 'normal' bow per say. However, I find it interesting that you used Shizune's Senbon Launcher to compare it instead of Kidōmaru's War Bow. =/ http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Spider_War_Bow:_Terrible_Split

Anyways, we don't know how fast the senbon were launched. To me, they looked like they were going the same speed as if they were thrown. http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/156/4
Especially if you compare it with this: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/246/7

And if you watched the anime for that scene, the distance looks much farther than 5 feet.
https://youtu.be/QR_53LnOr2g?t=560

Looking at both the chapter and episode, you will notice that Kabuto reacted to Shizune's movements. So he was already in position to defend when she launched the senbons.

I guess we have different interpretation of what the range it would be considered 'point blank'.
Perhaps I should not be using that term. Basically what I mean, is getting shot by an arrow within one meter (3.28 ft).

And have you really been hunting for your entire life?
Get a hand-ball and stick the tip of the arrow in it. Get a crossbow and have someone fire at you from 5 ft (FULL DRAW). Make sure your feet is placed firmly on the ground and see if you can dodge the arrow from that range. Get back to me. This is the same experiment used on Mythbusters.

Because I'm giving you facts and you're giving me 'maybes', 'I think', and 'I believe'.
If you guys are not going to play with limits, then there's no point to even zoning because you're basically claiming 'god status'.

[Eric]

Qualitative or quantitative, when talking about evidence from the anime/manga, quantitative is most of what is not going to be found since the series rarely used exact numbers (especially in chakra quantities). For things like speed, I don't think they used anything quantitative either; distance however, is a common quantitative thing used in the series, though even then it i sometimes vague (Kilometers view range. How many for the master?)

All in all, when citing manga/anime evidence, there usually isn't a whole lot of quantitative to go off of, so often by requirement it has to draw from real life, or at least realistic scenarios.

[UettoSenju]

I folow the manga more than the anime.

And once agian you give RL facts. Naruto is not RL. These guys are super human in terms of mystic powers and physical attributes.

Regardless it doesn't really matter. I hardly zone these days. But you can do so without giving yourself RL limits.

If faced with this in a zone match. I'd probably be like look you think in terms of realistic view and I in terms of fantasy. So ets meet in the middle. I'd suggest that I caught your arrow which resulted in my hand being cut just as it started to hit me aloe inch it to stil puncture me a good inch. In the naruto verse that wouldn't be fatal. But after a Perpignan of time the blood lose woud be a factor and the hurt hand would hinder my character.

[Mei]

All in all, when citing manga/anime evidence, there usually isn't a whole lot of quantitative to go off of, so often by requirement it has to draw from real life, or at least realistic scenarios.

Thank you! I do not want to hear I can dodge 'this' because 'I'm a shinobi from the Narutoverse' or I can dodge 'that' because I 'RP trained for years'. Some of you really need to do your research before you make some of these ridiculous claims.

Going back to the reaction time/speed, it's impossible to reduce that to less than 1/10 of a second without the help of some 'outside force' or 'special power'. I can name a few manga/anime (that also involves magic and/or superpowers) that will state the same thing because every fiction is based on some truth and follow some laws of nature.

I don't care about 'Naruto is not RL' because that's a weak argument and an excuse to potentially god-mode. Depending on the distance/speed of the arrow, it would be impossible to catch an arrow and that was also proven in Mythbusters.

I can't even recall anyone in Naruto (manga, not anime) that was able to catch a kunai thrown at them with their hands, so you saying that you would catch an arrow with your's is kinda laughable. >.>

[UettoSenju]

All in all, when citing manga/anime evidence, there usually isn't a whole lot of quantitative to go off of, so often by requirement it has to draw from real life, or at least realistic scenarios.

Thank you! I do not want to hear I can dodge 'this' because 'I'm a shinobi from the Narutoverse' or I can dodge 'that' because I 'RP trained for years'. Some of you really need to do your research before you make some of these ridiculous claims.

Going back to the reaction time/speed, it's impossible to reduce that to less than 1/10 of a second without the help of some 'outside force' or 'special power'. I can name a few manga/anime (that also involves magic and/or superpowers) that will state the same thing because every fiction is based on some truth and follow some laws of nature.

I don't care about 'Naruto is not RL' because that's a weak argument and an excuse to potentially god-mode. Depending on the distance/speed of the arrow, it would be impossible to catch an arrow and that was also proven in Mythbusters.

I can't even recall anyone in Naruto (manga, not anime) that was able to catch a kunai thrown at them with their hands, so you saying that you would catch an arrow with your's is kinda laughable. >.>

Merely making compromise was all. There are videos of people catching arrows and/or deflecting them at like 10-15 yards. It is not under five but still just pointing it out. I just watched a samurai guy cut a bb in have. A small bb. It was at probably 15 yards but awesome. And those things travel fast. Air soft. Typically faster than the eye can keep track of.

Regardless the moment you drew back I'd be preparing to defend. There is more at play than just me standing there to get shot.

[Becquerel]

Here's an image that someone who has a lot more time that I do has made. Basically, this give you the numbers on how stupid Naruto ended up. I'm sure there are others out there like this, but this thing was the easiest to find. But we all know that in the end, it was no longer about ninjas and all about wizards.