Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Yes

No

[Teostra]

I wanted to throw this idea out there for a way to maybe fix the claimed list. Looking at it right now, I see one person who has three weapons, one summon, and ten jutsu. I also see one person that has one weapon, four items, one summon, and one jutsu.

Why not make it that people can only have ONE canon item/weapon at a time. Jutsu shouldn't matter because hell, Kakashi was the thousand jutsu ninja and I don't see the point on why jutsu are claimed unless they're secret jutsu like Kakuzu or Diedara.

Just a potential idea to fix a system everyone complains about.

Possible ideas
1.

• Limit claimed weapons and items to one per person.
• This means that some people who have multiples would have to give up an item or two, but they would be able to choose what they want to keep of course.
• The remaining items could then be distributed to those that want them and standard claimed rules can be applied to all items.

2.

• Allow multiples of all items on the claimed list.
• But in order to gain an item/summon/etc, the player would have to go through RP in order to get it.
• But in order to keep it official, players would have to contact one of the few game masters whose task it would be to generate the adventure required to get that item.
• This would allow for everyone to be satisfied as well as generation of RP.

[Ѕhadow]

The system is only broken to those who it doesn't favor.

What is the use of limiting it to one item and summon for people? So that someone else can have it? Now sure I agree if someone is inactive then the summon, jutsu, etc should be moved to someone else. That's always been my thing to tackle however, inactivity.

In order to put this rule into effect it will have to trump the Inactivity Clause which lets people claim items and jutsu (Strictly canon ones) on the list after 60 days. People too often think it's 90 days. It is not and has never been 90. 90 is my own personal time-frame of choice to wait if I choose.

Right now I'm saying no. If the items/summons/jutsu are being used by an active person. I see no reason to limit them.

[Teostra]

Well, basically, I mean to either limit the number of items and weapons to just one per person because, realistically, most people here just use one (or no) weapon. And what about the infinite armor? How come 4 people have that one item as claimed? Maybe there are other ways to fix the system?
If it's really about opening up availability for newer players to gain canon items, why not just allow multiples of all items on the claimed list? It kind of loses its value at that point, but most of the characters on the claimed list are literally impossible to beat because of how we all write our characters.

Mind you, I don't want anything on that list or anything to really do with it. Im happy with my custom stuff. I just want to brainstorm on how to to fix it.

[Bocchiere]

If someone bought a new blender and then attempted to pulverize gravel in it and it broke would you blame the blender for being poorly designed or them for using it wrong? That's what Kiri did to the claims list and that's why it caused so many problems. They had the swords listed as claimed by "Sealed" for over a year, which was never an option. That was why their ownership was in question and why it was such a big problem and why Kiri ended up losing them, as I feel is a appropriate for anyone rampantly making up/not following rules.

That being said that's really the only major issue we've had as a result of the claims list. Minor disagreements from time to time but those all get sorted out quickly. Nothing needs to be done since it works fine when you use it correctly.

As for new players wanting things that isn't a problem either. Every other site I've been on also restricts unique items to one in the world as we have it and most are even stricter with abilities saying anywhere from 1-5 people on the whole site can have things like Rinnegan jiongu etc.

I'm willing to rp with anyone who wants something of mine. The tasks I give them are usually very hard but they should be for things like Hiraishin.

The type of people who will void you if you look at them funny, they feel like it, or its Tuesday are the problem.

[Ѕhadow]

Well, basically, I mean to either limit the number of items and weapons to just one per person because, realistically, most people here just use one (or no) weapon. And what about the infinite armor? How come 4 people have that one item as claimed? Maybe there are other ways to fix the system?
If it's really about opening up availability for newer players to gain canon items, why not just allow multiples of all items on the claimed list? It kind of loses its value at that point, but most of the characters on the claimed list are literally impossible to beat because of how we all write our characters.

Mind you, I don't want anything on that list or anything to really do with it. Im happy with my custom stuff. I just want to brainstorm on how to to fix it.

So really what you want to do is restrict people from having too many items as a way to nerf them?

I'm still trying to figure out the 'why' of this topic which I've yet to see anything except 'it could fix this certain issue'

4 people have that probably cause they're close friends. Multiple items is dumb. Things would get complicated way too fast. Imagine 3 sets of bijuu, I think not.

[Ace]

As you know, if you can't even establish the foundation plus a couple layers of base, this type of regulation is quite premature. 

At this point in time, I would suggest to further continue to strengthen and resolve current issues on the table-- afterwards, come back to this.

If an item is claimed by someone, well...I see no problem, at this point in time that is, for someone else to have that item as well. Like I said, probably best to address the other issues that remain unsolved to be handled first. In my opinion, multi-tasking has proven not to be as efficient with the current and past member base.

[Trev]

Nice in theory, wouldn't work though.

1. That would require current players to give up some of their stock of ammo, which most wouldn't.

2. Some things just wouldn't be in use anymore. We don't exactly have that many people.

3. Initiatives in the past tried to create claimed list parity and were rejected. Such ideas such as being able to challenge for weapons and items was rejected. And another to have have any summons be claimable was also axed.

4. Only one solution exist at this point and that is voluntary giving up things. Efforts have been made to some extent. I think there is a list of techniques on the wiki anyone can claim, and maybe a summons list too, might be mistaken though. But basically, it's up to the players who hoard stuff to decide to give it to a new player.

If the newbies asked nicely, that might get an older more semi inactive player (Like myself) to give up stuff, maybe. Else it's up to the owners to give away items, or place their claimed jutsu on the public domain list.

[Teostra]

Well, how about this as far as rule changes go? I will list two ideas and the Bijuu list =/= claimed list as far as I'm concerned.

1.

• Limit claimed weapons and items to one per person.
• This means that some people who have multiples would have to give up an item or two, but they would be able to choose what they want to keep of course.
• The remaining items could then be distributed to those that want them and standard claimed rules can be applied to all items.

2.

• Allow multiples of all items on the claimed list.
• But in order to gain an item/summon/etc, the player would have to go through RP in order to get it.
• But in order to keep it official, players would have to contact one of the few game masters whose task it would be to generate the adventure required to get that item.
• This would allow for everyone to be satisfied as well as generation of RP.

I'll put them up in he opening post too. If anyone has any other ideas, don't hold them back.

[Ѕhadow]

Trev pretty much nailed it on the head and hit the biggest point.

People will not give up their stuff freely.

I for one am 100% against being made to give something away that I have.

Also the multiple items? That makes no sense. So there would be 15 people with Samehada?

[Teostra]

Also the multiple items? That makes no sense. So there would be 15 people with Samehada?

Yeah, basically. I don't see any issue with it as long as they go through a GameMaster-proctored event if that kind of ruling was put in place. It's not like it's going to hurt anyone if multiple people have copies of it. Plus, this would prevent any future occurrences of items being argued over if someone goes inactive. Getting it would be as easy as sending a PM and RPing instead of having arguments.

[Trev]

People will never go for the multiple items answer. People get items/ jutsu for two main reasons.

1. To help them in battle rp
2. To collect a unique item

Your first solution is more probable to work, but still likely wont.

The only solution is to make everything challengable. This way, everyone has the opportunity to earn an item or weapon and never be denied a chance to earn it. However, this comes with issues of their own.
1. People like before would argue against having to defend their stuff. Most feel like they shouldn't have to.
2. Then you have people like Bocc. A very skilled roleplayer who could likely win most items. Which would lead to him hoarding lots of stuff, and other good battle rpers. This would have a even more negative affect on parity. This could be fixed my maybe putting an item cap on 3-5, or saying you can only challenge for one item in x amount of months. This would also lead to another issue tied with number 3.
3. How much should the community meddle? This is the biggest issue on SL, almost like big government in the States should you live there. How much say and how many rules should SL have. To put this process in place, the community would have to agree to the rule, and agree to a item cap rule. As you saw with the biju rules, a large segment of the SL population are very against regulation.

And problem 3 also puts a dampen on this whole thread, as your proposing regulation. As for me I'd be for some rules, but I was also for Edo tensei regulation, hiraishin, biju, etc. You can get by problem 3, it's been done a few times. But you're going to have to campaign, get support, compromise, and do a lot of arguing.

But I do applaud you for trying to find a solution and engaging in dialogue. But I way I see it, to change the system, you would have to make a challenge procedure, or personally implore people one by one to give up their stuff and hope the effect is contagious.

[Becquerel]

I think multiple items would be good, but I also would not mind trying to create stories involved in getting the items at people's request

As for rules, I think SL is nothing like the states lol We're much like the left-wing in the sense that those that yell the loudest have the most attention paid to them. Plus, many members from the game don't even go to or care about the forum.

[Eric]

...Why not make it that people can only have ONE canon item/weapon at a time...

In my opinion, it's far too late for that.

Just a potential idea to fix a system everyone complains about.

The Kiri swords and the Gedo Mazou, outside of the biju, have as of late been the only hotspots as far as claims go. If there are further complaints about the claims system then I presume it is definitely fewer than "everyone" complaining about it.

... The only solution is to make everything challengable...

Let's not turn more of these claimed items into biju. One is enough imho.

1.

• Limit claimed weapons and items to one per person.
• This means that some people who have multiples would have to give up an item or two, but they would be able to choose what they want to keep of course.
• The remaining items could then be distributed to those that want them and standard claimed rules can be applied to all items.

2.

• Allow multiples of all items on the claimed list.
• But in order to gain an item/summon/etc, the player would have to go through RP in order to get it.
• But in order to keep it official, players would have to contact one of the few game masters whose task it would be to generate the adventure required to get that item.
• This would allow for everyone to be satisfied as well as generation of RP.

I'll put them up in he opening post too. If anyone has any other ideas, don't hold them back.

#1 reads like what I understand to be socialism, which is not per say a bad thing, just a weird thing to see seriously proposed in regards to claimed items. I could be wrong, but this would just put unvaluable items (*cough* the majority of the Kiri swords nobody would care about if they could only choose one to wield *cough* Sameheda ftw) into a group collection bin. No point stealing/stripping/buying/recieving/hoarding all of a special item when you can only have one.

GM's handling weapon distributions are cool, but rule #2 suffers from a serious risk of continuity breaking. I mean, if the folks are in complete separate RP"s anyway then why bother reconciliating who has what?

Alternatively there is the waiting game. Once Bocchiere has everythying he wants I imagine he is going to get pretty bored; same with some of the others who are out for the full keychain kind of thing. It might take months, years, but it'll likely happen one day. People get married, people get thier one goal for the site, etc.

I know it sounds terrible, but that's only because it's coming from a RPer who pretty much has what he wants: a vibrant, colorful history; arguably one of the most powerful Nara ever (at least one of the most powerful still around who uses primarily shadow imitation); I've answered many of the calls of my at times varying allegiances; and I've given back to the community a little bit by doing some moderating on the forum and taking time out to try to participate in potentially game-changing decisions.

Although, on the side, if you REALLY want to get serious about this topic and you say that you don't want any holding back, re-create Shinobilegends Society with all of the lessons learned from the previous experiment (that helped lead to where we are now) and from our various hashing out and negotiations here. Keep a tie-in if you want as far as the game itself is concerned, but start the RP, the items, etc. over again. I've seen and been told about several attempts, but to my knowledge the takeoff hasn't been enough to draw some of the creators entirely away from SL RP.

It's a huge investment, especially with the Fall semesters about to start back up, but it's food for thought. You don't even have to go entirely out of the realm either, as the forum is a decent place to at least gather your thoughts and even RP a little bit to try out ideas.

From a fresh start, you can eliminate the biggest obstacle to reformation; the people who oppose the changes because it does them serious, or at the least blatant harm.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

The system is only broken to those who it doesn't favor.

I am not resolved one way or the other at this time, I would just like to note that if a system favors anyone then it is broke, not the other way around. IT should be as unbiased as possible.

I guess maybe we shouldn't really stress too hard over ownership and be more to each his own sometimes.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

In an attempt to first deal with the current issue, before embarking on the grand scheme of creating a working and equitable system for the claims list, as suggested by Ace. [the SSM swords being that issue...because I see around the site that it is not resolved and put to rest despite the closed thread stating such to be the official case.]

One must first concede the point that the claims list is broken [evidence being the ongoing disaster at hand among the community, this is certainly not the first issue that has arisen pertaining to the list; just the most volatile and current], and as such:

I do make the following postulate in regards to Bocchiere's analogy about the claims list being a blender, as his way of assigning the blame for the broken claims list to Kiri.

I put forth the alternate view point, once again, that it was those who wished to steal the SSM swords [through OOC means] that broke the claims list. I assert that being on the claims list was an improper use in the first place of the SSM swords, and thus is the ultimate culprit in creating the current issue. To nod back to Bocchiere's blender....it should not have been in the rock quarry but rather the kitchen. Then it would not have been used for the wrong thing and gotten broken.

How so?

The swords being sealed was right and proper, and how they are used. Because they are sealed and saved to serve as the 'badge of office weapon' for each SSM member. In lieu of some empty slots in the membership, each sword in question was stored until such time as the Need for its use was evident. As is proper for such an item.

As its active leader was not MIA...the one charged with tending to business...then that should have counted for activity and been an end to it before it was even begun.

How so? Please note the following:

The activity clause for a host, in charge of how his beast is used, is to rp, to post. IT may remain sealed even during a match and never used to defeat their challenger. It is not stated that they must RP using the beast...Nor is it stated that they must have a challenge in order to retain their beast. A host can literally go months without facing that situation, never using his beast, far exceeding an activity clause for a claimed item, as long as they are active in rp.

Gitsune, SSM acting leader in charge of the organization and so in charge of how the swords were to be used, was here and rping. It should not matter what that rp was or where the claimed items of her organization reside during such a phase. By the very virtue that the Unnamed Scroll exists, its use for storing swords counts as activity in order to retain ownership. Had it not been storing swords, by this line of thought, it would not have been meeting its own activity clause and been subject to OOC theft. Quite the Catch 22. This too is an item that is improperly being controlled by the rules pertaining to the claims list. Again with the blender? Keep it in the kitchen already.

May we not discuss other topics without citing grievous situations and stirring the kettle? Is it not enough to say....especially since the huge uproar that has gone on and is still seething under the surface in the minds of many...this divisive turmoil is evidence that the system is not satisfactory?

If it were satisfactory, then it would not cause such a huge issue.

Given that it has, well...improvements should be the goal, not to stand entrenched and defend something that displeases so very many because...it works in favor of some individuals.

Again, the overall fate of the claims list and how it is run can wait until the current issue at hand is resolved. However, I do realize that it is hard to separate two very hand in hand issues.

By removing the SSM Swords and the Unnamed Scroll, the two issues may be severed once and for all permitting the claims list to be focused upon and repaired, as is so very necessary given the many issues that have risen over its current function and guidelines. It may well be that in the very near future, were such a decision adopted, the claims list might be unlocked so people can freely edit and moderate the items in their possession as was the case before this battle of wills arose.

As with the bijuu, being such a complex set of 'claims' they have their own guidelines and are not moderated by the claims list. Such would not be possible. And in return, the items on the claims list should not be governed by such a complex set of rules as those pertaining to the bijuu.

So too, the SSM [its swords and scroll], is also a complex enough issue that the claims list can not hope to provide the necessary guidelines to govern their possession, use, and inheritance or subsequent challenges.

So please let me make myself very clear when i point to challenges. To ignore rp and create this fuss is very much to blame for where we all find ourselves. I however do not support the dysfunctional solution that Bocchiere was forced to stoop to. Therefore, in these guidelines for the SSM, the issue of making challenges, defining what constitutes activity, and how to deal with  all aspects of their use...as has been attempted with the bijuu...must occur. IF the separation of the SSM from the claims list is adopted, a comprehensive guideline for their items as has been done for the bijuu is very much in order.

I said it before. ALL PARTIES WERE TO BLAME. And I stand by that.