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[Garō, Ichirou]

I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.

If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.

So I'm late to this topic and wont lie I didn't read most of this topic. I read the first few posts and then a few on the last page, but I came across Dart's post and I actually agree with it. That all seems pretty fair. I don't want to ban the Biju, and the way I see it is simple rule breaks should equal stripping or at least some type of more efficient warning system? The 3 denials system doesn't seem to work very well, I don't know.

[Eric]

I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.

If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.

I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.

1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.

Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.

The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.

[Warren]

Pff lol, people can still do ooc if they so choose so Dart's thing is just fine. But ignoring the IC/OOC thing of 3 those aren't even technically rules, they should be obvious common sense >_>

[Dart Terumī]

I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.

If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.

I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.

1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.

Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.

The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.

Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.

Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.

4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.

Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.


But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.

[Hitler-Chan]

I'm definitely an advocate for simply voiding out the bijū and their affairs. Reason being the community has difficulty in implementing proper RP protocol in pursuit of the beasts and it drastically increases hostilities to the point it affects OOC and out of game emotions.

If they are to remain in-game, then I would say nix all the rules except the following:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Be active. (Post at least once every two weeks)
3) Promote RP activity by making it IC hunt.
4) Be a damn ninja.
5) Be honorable and respectful to one another.
6) Cannot iterate enough: Don't be an asshat.
7) Don't meta-game or god-mod.

I will have to disagree on this one. There is way too much that is either undefinable or simply subjective.

1, 4-7 are my fixation for that. Some of them are zoning protocols that a judge could fix up (with the removal of challenges judges might go away as well) but things like "be a ninja" are pretty subjective when the ninja in the Naruto series went from needing stealth to mostly needing power. Zetzu is probably the biggest exception, but he is definitely the exception and not the rule on that one.

Unless there is a judge, GM, or presider to decide things, I do not see how IC biju fights will possibly improve. Rather, I see them getting worse (which is pretty possible) if there is no judge or other such presider who can settle arguments and disagreements that will inevitable pop up in hardcore, biju related RP.

The IC hunt portion often is the problem when there are problems regarding biju fights under the current rules. I dont' get why there is still such a push to keep 'em.

Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.

Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.

4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.

Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.


But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.

I agree with most of what you say, except for the last bit where you said, "It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with."

This tid bit right here would open up 10 thousand doors of BS just waiting to be explored. The Hosts should only have at most 50% power when dealing with how the bijuu should be dealt with. These bijuu are privileges that come with obligations, and when either is taken advantage of, consequences and rules that govern how situations like those will be dealt with are necessary, or we'll have hosts pulling all sorts of nonsense out of their asses.

This mindset spawned from that, "Preferences" list being misconstrued and twisted into, "This is my bijuu, and the rules that govern it, list", a fine example of giving someone an inch, and them taking a mile and 3/4's. >_>

Now I won't explain what the word Preferences means, but I will say that it should only be that. And in the case that the Host/Hunter cannot agree on a solution, then a set of rules should be written to govern that contingency. 

It's really a simple solution when you wipe away the bullshit, and consider that fairness for both the Hunter, and Hunted.

Tl;Dr: Make fair challenges/hunts for host/hunted.

[Eric]

Wow, Eric. You really need a lengthy explanation to understand what it means to actually work with someone and not tear them down, bully, harrass, and verbally abuse someone when you're trying to either defend or hunt a bijū. Seriously? That's exactly what 1, 5, and 6 are completely about. Just simplified.

Of course "judges" could be brought in by the two involved in the bijū RP but they aren't necessary and shouldn't be such a hard rule to follow that one just has to have one in order to do anything bijū related.

4 and 7 has to do with obvious malfunction that occurs with the IC hunt. People want to just stroll up to a village and be like "Hey, I'm here for your Jinchūriki but don't fight me. I just wanna fight him/her. Kthanxbai." No. That doesn't work. The village will protect. As it was already deemed in the other ridiculous thread attempting to combat that theory. Be a ninja and get your opponent to 1v1 if that's your agenda. But if you piss off the village, then expect retribution as well. It's all for the RP of the story,and people want to just jump to the end result.

Same thing for meta and goddin' out. Don't pull OOC info as your main source of information, especially bogus buddy-buddy PMs. No, actually RP like you mean it and acquire the info IC. Even if that takes a spell, if you're here for the RP then enjoy the damn RP. If you cannot handle such a simple task, then why are you RPing to begin with? Goddin' out is self-explanatory.


But of course! Like Warren said, if you wanna just fight someone for the bijū without involving IC RP and they are cool with that, then there ya go. It's truly 100% up to the the host on what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with.

Don't give me that "wow Eric, you really need an explanation" bit right there. Out of all of my biju fights, things went fine under the old rules. Even when there were IC hunts, I personally had been fairly fine and helped as much a reasonably possible to smooth things over according to what information I had.

Even when I had to go through some less than welcome (at least on my end) RP that did not involve a tailed beast, I still ultimately went with it and even now help continue to make that entire affair not a waste of everyone's time and energies.

You can go through the threads youreslf, there are definitely people who need a computer's algorithm for this stuff; non-ambigious. As far as I have been concerned, I have only been a dick regarding RP once since I returned to RPing, but there are likely to be those who disagree. Ambiguity is a law's greatest friend and foe, because it allows for multiple interpretations. In the real world, there are people who settle on what interpretation is the "right" interpretation for the time period.

Here, we have no such people. "I"m not being a dick" "Yes you are" is not such a strange phenomenon around here. A judge to settle matters is absolutely necessary when the participants do not see things the same way or do not get along at all.

That "malfunction" that you speak of regarding IC hunts was not a malfunction. It was in the rules itself that such a thing (while RPwise illogical to just up and ask for it at the gates) was ultimately what was supposed to happen according to the rules of biju fighting. I am not going to go back through that thread and quote every instance where I try to hammer this home to people, but to put it shortly, those who went up to the gates and said "gimme your biju fight" were, while within the grounds of the rules to demand such, stoking the tempers of hosts who clearly did not see the IC hunt portion the same way.

The rules were the rules though, change 'em, abolish 'em, or get out of their jurisdiction, but to outright ignore them because they "don't make sense" to you (I'll come out, fight you, right here in front of the village gates, prove my worth as jinch, and the moment we're done, I'll show your body to all my cheering peeps and homedogs at the ramparts. Come on, is something even remotely close to that that really that out of character for some of these hosts?) is not fair to everyone who does abide by the rules, nor is it a legal option.


If you cannot handle such a simple task as following the biju rules as they are written, or starting a motion to adjust them, then why at any time be under the rules by having a tailed beast? If hosts were stripped for their bs IC hunt requirements, then as was put it earlier by someone else, the question of whether we should even bother with the accursed things (the rules, the beasts, etc.) would not be so pressing.

The question really is for me at this point (since "follow the damn rules as written" has certainly been an argument defeated not by its point but by the refusal to do so), what are the tailed beasts of SL? Are they a public commodity that has to (not could, not should, but has to) be shared with the community as far as opportunity goes? Or are they just like claimed items (to put it shortly) in that you do not have to be given a fair opportunity to take them, and recognizing them is completely optional?

If it is the former, then I stand by all of my arguments so far regarding the rules management, the clear sleight by truants who do not want to play by the terms and agreements they signed, and all that stuff. If the tailed beasts are like claimed items, with the option to personally void and refuse to acknowledge them (just like claimed items), then I throw up my hands and say do what you wish with the tailed beast as long as you leave it at home if you decide to engage anyone who does not acknowledge them in RP.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Well Eric, I got about half-way through that and was pretty tired of hearing you toot your own horn. But give me an A for effort for getting that far. NO prior rules are broken when a host insists that legit RP occurs to hunt them down and then fight, however that fight is provoked, as a melee free for all of those dragged into the RP or a 1v1. I don't need you to tell me what words mean, and it is insulting for you to twist them into something they simply were never intended to be. 10,000 word posts to a thread are not going to change that.

People who wan to RP their bijuu should get to do it. And not have to put up with a bunch for stupidity, as Dart said.

People who want to cut through all the creativity and thinking involved with RP and just do OOC matches, should get to do that.

However, once you have earned the right to have a bijuu, you should get the chance to play it out the way you like. That is not something that is unfair, Yujo, it is something that has been earned.

Those who earn a bijuu are supposedly the cream of the crop that SL has to offer.  I for one do not want to be robbed out of the chance to see them use the beast and show off what they can do. Either through an OOC match or through an actual RP.

[Eric]

Well Eric, I got about half-way through that and was pretty tired of hearing you toot your own horn...

Then let me cut to the chase and sum it all up in fewer words.

 The rules promise that the challenger will get their fight with the host. Most preferences insist that the fight is 1v1, hence, they cannot bring any allies of their own and neither can the host. Therefore, that "fight" mentioned will be 1v1, not a free for all. Challenges are pointless if the entire village gets to gangbang a single individual, regular IC fight hunts where both sides can bring as many as they want to the party would be more efficient (and less wordy) IF it were intended for such fights to be considered for the IC hunt.

But they aren't.

If biju are supposed to be available for everyone to fairly attain them, then 1 versus an entire village (in the case of 1v1 fight demands with an IC hunt where the host can have a legion having their backs) or an IC hunt that is so arduous that a host might as well not waste their time is bullshit. If the biju are not supposed to be available for everyone to fairly attain them, then that is a perfectly reasonable demand for hosts, since they might as well be claimed "items" at that stage.

If that is still too long for you to get through, let me really cut it down to size:

If tailed beasts are supposed to be available for the general public, then the fights and hunts must be fair, and rules must be followed to ensure that. Otherwise, then the fights and hunts can be as hard as the host so desires, but at the same time, the beasts might as well be "claimed items" and thus voidable on an individual basis if the host is deemed to have too much crazy to be reckoned with.

You really wanna see what the hosts can do with their tailed beasts? Tell them to stop hiding between overdone IC hunts with 1v1 fight stipulations so that you can actually see them fight to defend their bijuu. Otherwise, give it up, some beasts will never be fought for ever again (outside of an activity strip) from this point with the way things are going.

[Warren]

You really want to see what hosts can do with their beasts? Stop trying to shove it down everyone's throats that fights are all they're good for, and you might actually see something creative start happening. At this point its only you beating a dead horse anymore.

[Eric]

You really want to see what hosts can do with their beasts? Stop trying to shove it down everyone's throats that fights are all they're good for, and you might actually see something creative start happening. At this point its only you beating a dead horse anymore.

The current rules largely govern biju fights, not what hosts do with their beasts in their spare time (other than be active in some way, preferably public). The topic is on whether the rules should be greatly amended or abolished altogether.

Therefore, what else besides the fighting aspect of tailed beasts are you expecting me to beat to death? If the beasts are not meant to change hands very often, especially not into the hands of an average interested player, then the rules should be abolished in order to keep it that way, and should be treated more like claimed items than how they are treated now.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

You don't need a rule to get that. Poor rper's won't beat the host.
plain and simple.

And apparently what the host does in his spare time isn't good enough to count for activity, hence the hoo ha that precipitated this glorious 'Why isn't Warren active but instead insisting on RP' festival.

[Warren]

Shh, don't tell them. Means more fun for us.

[Eric]

You don't need a rule to get that. Poor rper's won't beat the host.
plain and simple.

And apparently what the host does in his spare time isn't good enough to count for activity, hence the hoo ha that precipitated this glorious 'Why isn't Warren active but instead insisting on RP' festival.

I don't recall arguing that Warren isn't active. I don't recall ever calling a festival for such. Athos did accuse Warren of being inactive and apologized, we (or some of us at least) have long moved on from that.

Warren's conditions for an IC hunt, however, have come into question by me several times now. If that is what you meant, then say what you mean instead of trying to make me figure out what you are intending to communicate with words.

 In any case, then I will have to assume the latter case (everyone gets a chance vs only certain people like claimed items and the Mist ninja swords), because who is a "poor RPer" is pretty subjective from where I am sitting, especially since the presumed opposites, " rich/great RPers", suggest that only the elite or above average really should be having even a fair shot at the tailed beasts in general.

In which case, the rules ought to be abolished and things simply return to a "anything goes" state regarding tailed beast fights, that they are thrown into the "just like other RP items" pile.

Was that really so hard to just come out and say you guys? Unless of course I misunderstand your messages to me, in which case I will have to ask for clarification before I go rogue and ignore the tailed beasts' existence in all but required interactions.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

talks real-ly slow

The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.

So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.

now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.

You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.

[Eric]

talks real-ly slow

The poor role-player is the one who loses the match, be-cause the other guy was bet-ter.

So poor role-players do not get bi-juu.

now pay attention as I begin to talk a-bout the o-ther point.

You question-ing War-ren's con-di-tions IS the fes-ti-val. Role-playing is making be-lieve-able stor-ies to have fun.

Does the poor roleplayer lose the match because they are worse at RP, or because the odds were stacked from the beginning?

If poor roleplayers are determined by the hosts, then the hosts practically choose their successor, and "allow" whoever they want to actually have the biju (since they determine what is poor and not poor roleplay).

Now pay attention, is your priority JUST for the host to have fun in make-believe stories? Because no hunter is going to have fun if they have to completely bend over backwards to please the host before they can even get a shot at the beast.

Now, not much faster now or you might lose me, have I got it about right? And if not, maybe a different approach will get the point across better.