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[KayentaMoenkopi]

it was not listed as a rule...it was me mouthing off at the end to people who wanted to try and force others to give up their IC option or face their ridicule, accusations, and bile.

As I explained to Kirk above the last three comments from this one.

[Bocchiere]

Because they don't deserve to make people hunt them IC when people are telling me challenging a host for their bijuu nets them being, and I quote, "Politely told to eff off." .

That's not "Let's work together to make a fun rp about you trying to find me." that's "I'm not defending my bijuu against you. Now go away."

I don't think you deserve a bijuu at all if that's how you behave, which is why I think to start we should not have the option of requiring IC hunt as a match choice. If we do do it then it should be like I mentioned, just an rp before the match that the two people work out the logistics of. 

[Ratatosk]

So from what I get from these reworking rules is to seal any loopholes, but at the end of the day professional writing wins. What way to say to people who aren't as proficient in writing "You will never have a Bijuu because your writing/typing skills suck". Not very fair I say.

[Hitler-Chan]

So from what I get from these reworking rules is to seal any loopholes, but at the end of the day professional writing wins. What way to say to people who aren't as proficient in writing "You will never have a Bijuu because your writing/typing skills suck". Not very fair I say.

The Bijuu are meant to be for the prestige rp'ers, the people who have worked their asses off to get to the levels necessary to achieve the goal of having a beast. Even in the show, when choosing a host for the Hachibi, Kumogakure went through screenings to weed off the weaklings. So I will say, it is in fact fair in every way. You want a beast, work for it.

A lot of the people who have beasts now can tell you that they weren't always on the level of skill they are now, but because they wanted to crawl out of the corners of obscurity to shine among the elite, they did whatever was necessary to achieve that goal.

[Warren]

Wouldn't it be easier to just say you want the rules to cater to just the select few who want monopoly over the things?

[Hitler-Chan]

Wouldn't it be easier to just say you want the rules to cater to just the select few who want monopoly over the things?

You mean the people who, well, ya know, Care? Cause yeah, them.

[Warren]

Funny, didn't think it'd be so easy to make you admit it.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

So from what I get from these reworking rules is to seal any loopholes, but at the end of the day professional writing wins. What way to say to people who aren't as proficient in writing "You will never have a Bijuu because your writing/typing skills suck". Not very fair I say.

Sorry Ratatosk, I am not understanding where in the listing of rules I put up that you get  that writing as a professional is required to have and hold onto a bijuu. I think even if you write like crap, you can still not metagame or god mod or character control finding out who the host is and then tracking him down. I think that if you continue with an rp that eventually you will track the host down and get your battle.

Personally I have yet to see anyone on SL write as a professional. Professional writers go through indepth character developments, creating personas with strengths and flaws, setting them into situations that challenge or even create problems they cannot always handle, and show growth of character throughout the tale of the story. Mostly I see invincible carbon copies of each other running around without any flaws other than the character build.

@ Bocc: I understand your frustration. However, I believe it is wrong to take the choice out of how the host wishes to handle their challenges. I also believe it is possible to have a viable hunt and match while not giving into metagaming, god modding, and character control. I should not have to hand you a tour guide so you can take me out of the game in order to not be considered to be cheating. I have laid down several hints of late, and it is amazing to me that no one has picked up on them in order to exploit the resources available. But I won't give it to you. Do this do that and then be here...as a host I am not required to arrange the rp so that you can defeat me, lay out all my weaknesses, and take one up side the head.

But I am starting to get the feeling that this is what some people want.

the long and the short of it is this:

There are hosts who want to do the OOC thing. They should be allowed to make that decision.
There are hosts who want to do the RP thing. They should also be allowed to make that decision.

Both can work and I believe it is time to agree upon rules that accommodate both desires and wrap this thing up.

It is way past time that some concessions be made here so that a set of rules can be accepted by us all and to stop trying to shove our own agendas down each other's throat.

Did I miss something?

[Kage]

I like those rules in Bocc and Kay's posts that were made so far. Here are a few contributions, and additions to some current Tailed Beast stuff that I would like to propose.


The Tailed Beasts are able to be held under Genjutsu, though the only type that they have been shown to be actively kept under good control was with the Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan. Wood Release is also shown to keep them tamed and under wraps. And the Outer Path's Demonic Statue Chains can also bind a Tailed Beast when used together with the Black Receivers. The chains can be created by the Rinnegan wielder themselves, and don't have to come directly from the Gedo Mazo.

Obito's control of Kurama.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-501-page-9.html

Obito's control of Kokuo, along with spawning of the Demonic Statue Chains without the Gedo Mazo.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-569-page-11.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-567-page-7.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-567-page-8.html

Madara's control of Kurama.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-621-page-16.html

Hashirama's control of Kurama.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-627-page-8.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-627-page-9.html

Sasuke's control of all the Tailed Beasts.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-693-page-10.html

Hashirama is also know for gathering all the beasts can then distributing them among the emerging shinobi villages. It can be inferred that his Wood Release had a large part in subduing and containing all nine beasts. This really kinda put's Hamura's side of the family at a disadvantage, but at least they don't gotta worry about eye-swapping or stealing for their doujutsu evolution. And this also puts anybody else that is not born of special bloodlines at a disadvantage too. But I guess that's the genetic lottery at hand.


I would also like to purpose a Tailed Beast Chakra Mode as an additional ability being available for any host who has completed mastery over their Tailed Beast. It'll serve as another fun perk of being a Jinchurikki.


As for challenge lists for IC hunts, I would prefer that they be Pursuer Lists. These would show who currently has approached a host in showing interest in pursuing them. Whether or not they'll make it first is an unknown, but it can serve as a sort of accountability for both sides. For the host, it would mean that they will be held accountable for making the pursuit fair and do-able for the hunter. And for the pursuer, it would have them be accountable on searching for the host using plausible methods. As the rules said, a battle will happen, but that's only if both parties are willing to comply with that accountability.

That also brings up mixed IC-OOC preferences. An IC hunt implies that if caught, there are risks in survival and consequences on one's own reputation IC. An OOC match means that all that can be circumvented and the battle can just happen without IC consequences, sans losing of the beast. Having an IC hunt but OOC match would completely undermine the purpose of having these things IC in the first place. It becomes a game of keep-away. And having a straight match with IC consequences also doesn't make too much sense.

This is why I believe that it should be clarified that if you're a host, you have to choose between IC or OOC for your challenge preferences. And challengers/seekers should have to comply with that. Don't be that butt who says they're unreachable because they're in a chakra-concealing room or are using a jutsu that does so. Or by being in an entirely different dimension or planet. By choosing to have an IC hunt, you're to be held responsible for yourself to be reachable by plausible means. If you have any objections with that, then I can easily find you through my knowledge of Tailed Beast Chakra familiarity and sensing techniques. I'm sure that Bocchiere and Zenaku ought to be able to find you guys just as easily, or even easier. Otherwise, a strip should be in order.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

I like the notion of calling an IC hunt challenge list, a pursuer's list. Or Hunter's list.
Same difference.

I think that if someone wants rp for a hunt, then the whole deal should be IC consequences and all. But whatever, I don't care one way or the other about if they are ok with possible character death or not. I don't see how RPing a hunt and then not doing character death detracts from anything and would leave that up to the host. IS it about just rping or about betting the life of the character on an event? Motivations of the players should not be mandated by a rule but left up to the stakes set between those involved at the time. It hurts no one if a host lives after losing one way or the other and does not keep the bijuu challenge process from progressing in a timely fashion.

The only reason I can think for making a rule that IC hunts mean IC death if you lose is just to shove crap in someone's face for choosing this as an option. If they choose to die, fine by me.
If they do not choose to die it doesn't keep me from having a good day or meeting my own goals at all.

And so, I see no reason to make it a rule.

Rules should have a purpose. Not just be made because they can be.

Like activity rules...well yes. People are being hindered here if you are lazy and never show up.

But if I choose not to die?
so what?
It does not need to be a rule.

[Eric]

My two cents below:

... By choosing to have an IC hunt, you're to be held responsible for yourself to be reachable by plausible means...

What is plausible, exactly, supposed to mean? Because between the OOC and IC groups, I think plausibility of IC huntability is among the things contested. Kay (among others) have argued that the challenger should not be given a free pass to the host in an IC hunt (in other words, the challenger can or even are very likely to fail), while I (among others) have argued that a challenger should be given an explicit chance at the beast (the RP itself, the challenger should not be able to fail, since the fighting for the beast is the main shebang).

Is it plausible that if you have IC defenses that preventing sensing, that the challenger cannot learn of the host's identity through sensing at all? Even if that sensory is the Mind's Eye or Byakugan? After all, the hunter can always stick around and learn of it by word of mouth, or even by getting cozy with the host. But wait, the host knows that he/she is being hunted, so will not let slip that they are a host (and will make sure others in the vicinity who know, especially if that list is limited, do not let it slip either without force). Learning the identity of the host then requires specialty stuff. Is all of that still considered plausible, since it is possible and even reasonable by some RP standards, just extremely difficult.

What is the difficulty level setting for biju hunts? Is there a max and a min? By the definition of plausible, except for inactive hosts, none of the current hosts have truly designed an implausible scenario, just some have crafted an extremely difficult case for a prospective hunter when compared to other hosts.

[Kage]

My two cents below:

... By choosing to have an IC hunt, you're to be held responsible for yourself to be reachable by plausible means...

What is plausible, exactly, supposed to mean? Because between the OOC and IC groups, I think plausibility of IC huntability is among the things contested. Kay (among others) have argued that the challenger should not be given a free pass to the host in an IC hunt (in other words, the challenger can or even are very likely to fail), while I (among others) have argued that a challenger should be given an explicit chance at the beast (the RP itself, the challenger should not be able to fail, since the fighting for the beast is the main shebang).

Is it plausible that if you have IC defenses that preventing sensing, that the challenger cannot learn of the host's identity through sensing at all? Even if that sensory is the Mind's Eye or Byakugan? After all, the hunter can always stick around and learn of it by word of mouth, or even by getting cozy with the host. But wait, the host knows that he/she is being hunted, so will not let slip that they are a host (and will make sure others in the vicinity who know, especially if that list is limited, do not let it slip either without force). Learning the identity of the host then requires specialty stuff. Is all of that still considered plausible, since it is possible and even reasonable by some RP standards, just extremely difficult.

What is the difficulty level setting for biju hunts? Is there a max and a min? By the definition of plausible, except for inactive hosts, none of the current hosts have truly designed an implausible scenario, just some have crafted an extremely difficult case for a prospective hunter when compared to other hosts.

I probably should have divided that into two things: Being able to find a host, and being able to approach them. Like, you cannot literally make it impossible to find or reach a host. There are some difficulty increases between each one, but it should still be possible for someone to ninja their way in.

Also, I forgot to mention that the Byakugan can apparently see a Tailed Beast's Chakra. So that's a very useful +1 for Hamura's side.

[Eric]

My two cents below:

... By choosing to have an IC hunt, you're to be held responsible for yourself to be reachable by plausible means...

What is plausible, exactly, supposed to mean? Because between the OOC and IC groups, I think plausibility of IC huntability is among the things contested. Kay (among others) have argued that the challenger should not be given a free pass to the host in an IC hunt (in other words, the challenger can or even are very likely to fail), while I (among others) have argued that a challenger should be given an explicit chance at the beast (the RP itself, the challenger should not be able to fail, since the fighting for the beast is the main shebang).

Is it plausible that if you have IC defenses that preventing sensing, that the challenger cannot learn of the host's identity through sensing at all? Even if that sensory is the Mind's Eye or Byakugan? After all, the hunter can always stick around and learn of it by word of mouth, or even by getting cozy with the host. But wait, the host knows that he/she is being hunted, so will not let slip that they are a host (and will make sure others in the vicinity who know, especially if that list is limited, do not let it slip either without force). Learning the identity of the host then requires specialty stuff. Is all of that still considered plausible, since it is possible and even reasonable by some RP standards, just extremely difficult.

What is the difficulty level setting for biju hunts? Is there a max and a min? By the definition of plausible, except for inactive hosts, none of the current hosts have truly designed an implausible scenario, just some have crafted an extremely difficult case for a prospective hunter when compared to other hosts.

I probably should have divided that into two things: Being able to find a host, and being able to approach them. Like, you cannot literally make it impossible to find or reach a host. There are some difficulty increases between each one, but it should still be possible for someone to ninja their way in.

Also, I forgot to mention that the Byakugan can apparently see a Tailed Beast's Chakra. So that's a very useful +1 for Hamura's side.

Hypothetically speaking, if a host were to have a few buddies attack (and potentially off) the hunter before the hunter can approach the host, would that fall into making it impossible? That is entirely hypothetical, but the general case is if the host created an obstacle that had a fair chance of defeating the pursuer, how is that considered? Because other than explicitly breaking the rules, each host will have slightly different obstacles that need to be overcome, on differing levels of difficulty and type. How is that mediated if not moderated?

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Uhm...something just occurred to me.

You think they sit around and think this stuff up so no one will find them?

I think that they just want it to be rp'd as it is.

In the beginning there was no one other than me who knew Warren was the One tailed host. So...that is not trying to make it hard. That is just how it was. Not by means of some deep dark plot, just because we didn't invite the village to come watch while the bijuu was shoved inside his body or sell tickets and flash his name all over the world via bird messenger.

So...the host did not craft an implausibly hard rp there. To make it impossible to find him. And...why would we advertise who our secret weapon is? That makes no military sense. The nukes are here guys...here is a map. Hope you find them and make them unusable.

Have other's since learned who he is? I don't know. Do you?

Now these chakra sensing tech. It is my understanding it does not tell you who the person is unless you know that already. Like, being able to see bijuu chakra does not give you the name of the host.

I feel a chakra out there. It is eric. If I have never sensed eric's chakra before then I can't go around acting like I know it is eric...I can tell you someone is there. period.

Now if I have sensed the one tail's chakra before...and don't know it is Warren...I can go around trying to find the beast...but I can't come to Suna and say..."hey, tell Warren I want to fight him for the one tails" cause I don't know it is Warren. And these are the things that previous hunters have tried to do. They have tried to use their powers in ways that they do not work. And then tried to blame the host for being difficult.

And I really do not see how that is crafting an impossible situation so to be underhanded and never have to fight anyone to for the bijuu. I find it logical to want people to not use info they do not have. I find it fair to not want someone to claim a power is something it is not and that it can give me info it cannot.

Now...cloaking your chakra. I see people do this all the time. But if a host does it that is bad?

You know...I think that if people want to see hosts held to all these rules and regulations over what they can and cannot do...then ALL role players should be too.

Being a host is supposed to represent the best in RP on SL....I am paraphrasing Ryoiji or Yujo...I could never tell them apart...well then?

If a host cannot hide their chakra then no one should be allowed to do it. I see no reason to tie a host's hands behind their back while everyone else is going around swinging with both fists.


The rp reason a person becomes a host is to protect their village or clan. To be the secret weapon for whatever and to fight for that.

But it is being made into something quite different. It is being turned into a game of capture the flag. There sole reason for existing is to be a prize to be fought over and won. I think that is pretty lame in the field of potential and creativity.

IF that is all you want bijuu to be....then make up a seal of power that takes their place. They confer specific powers on the holder and can be fought over. And then you don't have to worry about rp at all. You can just play king of the hill and have your bragging rights.

Fight for the title...but RP for the bijuu.

[Bocchiere]

Warren please try and stay on topic.

Basically whenever I bring up any of the mentioned abilities to sense bijuu chakra i am told "only if I'm using the bijuu, then yeah that works." So you can just never use your bijuu out in the open and no one can ever find you.

The host can hide their chakra if they want but I think the issue would
be largely resolved by the mention of always having them reachable and always being able to sense the bijuu's chakra.

Bijuu are literally masses of chakra and you should not he able to hide that. Even the weakest has many times more chakra than any one person.