Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Bijuu Arena => Topic started by: Eric on September 09, 2015, 04:03:09 PM
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The questsion and options speak for what the poll is about. In short, recent discussions have suggested that an alteration to the biju rules (dramatic), getting rid of them altogether, or removal of them from play is in order. While I will not go at length into the discussion here, much of it can be found in this thread:
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8553.0.html
The poll as of right now has been set to run for 14 days, two weeks. Thus, the poll will be running from 9/9 till about 9/23. Everyone gets only one vote, which they are allowed to change (in case minds are changed as this poll continues). The results of the poll will only be shown once the poll has expired, so other than reading commentary the end results of the poll will largely be unknown until about 9/23.
To expand upon the options and the implications for the sake of those not caught up (or do not have the time to be going through the other thread) to which others are welcome to elaborate on as well:
1) Amend the rules. The major problems have been between interpretation of the rules and the conflict with RP ideologies. Naturally then, the two major calls for amendment have been to radically alter the rules by elaboration (granting more detail to lessen ambiguity) or by reduction (getting rid of many of the rules, leaving only the bare minimum, the rest being covered by various RP standards). The two have not been split apart because both seek to amend the rules rather than get rid of them entirely.
2)Abolish the biju rules entirely. This means that there are no over-arching rules governing the tailed beasts other than RP standards, which can vary from place to place, host to host. The tailed beasts are not public commodities which need overarching regulation and control under this option. They are, in essence, claimed items that can be taken and lost in a similar fashion (think canon claimed items).
3) Abolish the biju system altogether. There have been calls for this made in the past numerous times, but despite the heartache and headaches, it has never seem to have been implemented, likely due to many either feeling that the beasts are useful for RP or have a personal IC connection with the beast. Here, the idea of a biju system is nulled, and no one can necessarily claim to have a tailed beast. This does not mean that there are not those who will continue to RP with tailed beasts, but their presence is not necessarily acknowledged by other parties.
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I ask that this topic be kept focused on the poll and its logical discussion for as long as possible.
Though discouraged for difficulty of verification and tracking, if you are making a vote for someone who does not wish to make a forum account or does not have one, please state that clearly and in some bold way (larger font, colors, etc. no more than two please) as those will have to be added to the totals at the end of the poll.
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I voted for amend the rules. I think it would be easy to just get rid of the IC hunt part. It is pretty obvious from what I've seen lately that the IC hunt aspect is the part giving the most problems. If you want to do a completely IC rp to find the host than you can do that but then you've got no bijuu rules protecting you because you are no longer doing a challenge.
You challenge someone, you guys agree on the preferences, extra rules, fight, and then it's done. You can put whatever you choose to put on the line if you want a deathmatch but this weird "I'm hunting you you have to let me find you IC." rp is just unwieldy and I think it has to go.
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I voted to amend the rules.
I think a host should be able to decide if the wish to have either an IC hunt, in which case I believe a list of challengers no longer applies and the standard 5 base RP rules kick into gear, OR to accept challengers for an OOC match, in which case a list of challengers would be in order.
Note to Eric: The tally of votes is not showing up for me. Have you chosen an option to hide the results or is this a glitch in the poll? Usually after a person votes the tally is then revealed.
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I voted for amend the rules. I think it would be easy to just get rid of the IC hunt part. It is pretty obvious from what I've seen lately that the IC hunt aspect is the part giving the most problems. If you want to do a completely IC rp to find the host than you can do that but then you've got no bijuu rules protecting you because you are no longer doing a challenge.
You challenge someone, you guys agree on the preferences, extra rules, fight, and then it's done. You can put whatever you choose to put on the line if you want a deathmatch but this weird "I'm hunting you you have to let me find you IC." rp is just unwieldy and I think it has to go.
Yeah, back to the Old Rules. Bijuu challenges, ALL OOC. We all know there were 100 million billion less problems with those old rules.
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Preferably gone. Amending just sounds like an attempt of same few people to try force something else as nonsensical and abusable on others.
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Amend.
Change everything to the bare minimum, but leave no ambiguity.
All hunts are IC, but you must remain active and make is possible for people to find you. Void lists can be discussed on a case by case basis as well as judges if they are needed.
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I vote abolish the rules save for inactivity.
This way, the jinchūriki is free to decide whether the matter is OOC or IC without being forced into an underisable situation.
Remember: Bijū are suppose to be difficult to obtain and master. Foremost, they are sentient, living chakra creatures. To some, they are the epitome of power. Either way, the jinchūriki of the beast is *generally* well respected and liked. Especially when associated with a village. They are not meant to be easily plucked from the bosom of a community.
However, that does NOT imply that each jinchūriki will hide away in a village to allude combat. Some welcome challengers with open arms and ready minds. Others will resort to simple OOC challenges because (s)he wants to continue RP
elsewhere.
Saddling them with all these rules and regulations just to appease a would be challenger is ridiculous.
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Amend the rules.
The system isn't broken, but it does need some fixing up here and there.
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I vote to amend them, honestly.
Despite how much I said I want them gone.
I also once said that Jinchuuriki have too much freedom. >> And destroying the rules gives them ALL the freedom xD
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Void. It's the only true solution to get rid of the problems they cause.
Rules want help as people will break them. There are no set rp rules at SL and never will be. Freedom would just cause people to complain they are being cheated do to a lack of rules. So void em from your so called "Official" rp.
Hell just void this aspect of "Official" rp.
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I vote for Amend.
No IC Hunts and make all of the challenges OOC.
It's simple, easy, and everyone gets a chance.
Of course, Bijuu are difficult to obtain but they should be easy to find.
Generally, everyone wants to use examples from the Naruto series to their benefit but then when another is used against them, they pull the "SL is not Naruto" card. You can't have your cake and eat it too. >.>
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I vote for Amend.
No IC Hunts and make all of the challenges OOC.
It's simple, easy, and everyone gets a chance.
Of course, Bijuu are difficult to obtain but they should be easy to find.
Generally, everyone wants to use examples from the Naruto series to their benefit but then when another is used against them, they pull the "SL is not Naruto" card. You can't have your cake and eat it too. >.>
That's a blatant lie. I work at a bakery, so I could actually have my cake, and then eat more cake that also belongs to me, so I am eating my cake while having it at the same time. Get rekt M8.
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I vote for Amend.
No IC Hunts and make all of the challenges OOC.
It's simple, easy, and everyone gets a chance.
Of course, Bijuu are difficult to obtain but they should be easy to find.
Generally, everyone wants to use examples from the Naruto series to their benefit but then when another is used against them, they pull the "SL is not Naruto" card. You can't have your cake and eat it too. >.>
That's a blatant lie. I work at a bakery, so I could actually have my cake, and then eat more cake that also belongs to me, so I am eating my cake while having it at the same time. Get rekt M8.
Except it's the companies Cake, so...It's more like, having someone else's cake, and eating it too. Just makes you the dick.
"Happy Birthday! Time for cake honey! :D What's that? Now who ate the cake?!" You see where this is going.
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Yeah Rusaku, you're eating the company's cake, but good job going off-topic though. >.>
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Well, I'd like to amend the rules. Completely abolishing the bijuu would likely bring more strife, as it would just create a cascading effect of people finding something else to argue over and claim. Then we'll have discussions(arguments) on those things as well and will eventually spiral down onto a topic like this regarding the next thing.
The inactivity rule should really stay, because what's the point of having these 'key' RP tools if the people in charge of them go ghost or only post once every Rosh Hashanah. In those instances, it should be handled as fairly as possible as no one 'dies' and whatever organization that the user was currently in would be given the choice of succession. If in no organizations, then maybe last village they posted in will have charge of it.
But I also think that Bijuu shouldn't be used for only OOC because that would be really boring. I understand that there's plenty of people who just want to use it for OOC battles, and that's cool too. More power to you. But if someone gets a bijuu can find to utilize it in an interesting way via RP, then they should be allowed to.
But I also understand the difficulty of actually hunting when you're trying to go the IC route. It can take a very long time with the way some RP goes (like myself, when I log on I check to see what I need to update and post accordingly if I have time. But not all people do the same) which might be detrimental for the hunter if the holder states they'll be IC only. But that shouldn't make it impossible. Perhaps, in the case where someone wants to be hunted IC, a 'judge' can be selected to actually act as a GM that would bring the hunter and hunted together. Or you could try to be sneaky and become friends with the bijuu and hunt them or something like that. In those situations, it'd be a case-by-case basis as to what happens.
Or maybe if you decide to be an RPer with your bijuu, you would have to accept IC hunting proposals. If you want to just have the bijuu for OOC fights, then you'll stay OOC. I dunno, just a possible suggestion.
But the most important rule should be that we all remember to have fun. Hopefully we can stop with the mud-slinging in the future.
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Just to put this out there but if the beast are only OOC tools how do they fit into rp?
You are telling me I can't hunt them IC yet someone is rping IC as having one? That makes no sense.
It's like saying Konoha and Kiri goes to war. Well during this war I trap one of their host and knock him out. Then am I not able to extract his beast?
That is the same concept of IC hunt is it not? If they are IC by any means then yes I can hunt them down IC. If not that just breaks the whole point of being IC. And sense there would be no rules on it I could pretty much do it however I liked, correct? No IC rules = I can do what I want with them IC.
So for you voting to just make OOC rules remember that. If they can only be gained through OOC they have no place IC and should be voided from "Official" rp.
They should be nothing more than an OOC bragging right.
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My understanding was that the challenge system would be OOC only but you could always do an actual rp and find them. Like now if someone has a bijuu and wants to do an OOC match as the preference but you find them and kill them in a normal rp the beast would be released and you could capture it, right? So that would not change but the whole wait in line for a assured fight thing would be only OOC.
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I vote to abolish the whole thing, rules and biju both.
There is, from my perspective, simply no "fair" way to do things. If the rules are merely amended, someone is going to be upset one way or another by the changes; hosts from loss of freedom or challengers out of loss of a chance at the beast. Having the cake and eating it too has proven impossible regarding biju, because many challengers will simply choose the most difficult route possible (for one reason or another) rather than be flexible with the challenger.
If there are no rules on the system at all, and only IC rules supreme, then I don't expect to see a change of hands very often for some of the tailed beasts. I imagine village fights may once again become an inevitable way to get some of the tailed beasts exposed into a fight. I wonder if any Zenakus or Bocchieres will re-emerge prominently in such an environment.
The rules are only as enforcable as its enforcement. I have seen very few if any instances where the community punished one of its members for breaking any of the biju rules without a fuss akin to a disorderly trial. Excuses, exceptions, loophole seeking defiance and SL ways (as Uetto, Kayenta, and Warren have more than convinced me is a major problem in the implementation of any rules at this point) make enforcement difficult, inconsistent in quality, and a matter of "good guy" and "bad guy".
To put it bluntly, I don't think a "free RP" realm can handle any set of biju rules because the only rule of law universal to people here seems to be, "You go after my idea of fun and it's on, so back off". From a hindsight view, many jinchurikii worked fine under the rules, only some had issues with compliance for various reasons ranging from "I don't want to work with this challenger", "your interpretation is wrong", to "RL comes first", to "That doesn't make RP sense" to whatever under the sun. I don't think I saw blatantly, "I don't wanna fight for it" at any point, but I could be wrong, someone might could have been that bold.
I doubt my mind is going to be changed; it has been long overdue that this system be ended. Even if the tailed beasts as a whole are voided and other RP issues crop up, at least there is no need for a universal concept of "fairness" in every decision and a miniature war everytime the word biju comes up in a topic. Literally it would come down to, "Did you follow that group's RP standards?" "Did they at least give you an idea of what their standards were?" and "Just walk away and don't RP with each other".
P.S
Kayenta, not seeing the poll results until after the vote had closed was intentional, but once steam starts to slow on the thread (maybe after a week or two) or if enough people want it as such, that can be changed to show after voting instead of show after poll is expired.
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If I've read every reply correctly, then here's the current true vote turn-out.
Amend - 8
Abolish - 1
Void - 2
We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.
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We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.
Why would they be voided just because they don't want to post an opinion? Their vote counts too. No one has to post their reasoning. The only reason why some have is to sway the swing voters one way or another or another. To simply discard their vote because they didn't post a reason is asinine.
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We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.
Why would they be voided just because they don't want to post an opinion? Their vote counts too. No one has to post their reasoning. The only reason why some have is to sway the swing voters one way or another or another. To simply discard their vote because they didn't post a reason is asinine.
More and more I find myself agreeing with this guy. Something is terribly wrong...
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It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.
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Yeah Eric did mention in his first post that you'd have to post an explanation to have your vote count.
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Amend them.
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It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.
Looks like I need to go to the federal government and demand that all voters must explain their choice when they vote at next year's election then. <.<;
You do realize how silly it absolutely is to just cast aside someone's vote simply because they don't "explain" their choice.
Not to mention, this poll was Eric's creation. You don't have jurisdiction to dictate whose vote counts and whose doesn't. Until Eric amends his post to force the voters to post their explanation, this entire debate is null and void.
Yeah Eric did mention in his first post that you'd have to post an explanation to have your vote count.
No, he doesn't state that all nor is it implied. He simply asked for any further discussion to remain on the topic and not get derailed into a differing topic entirely.
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My mistake, it is in the title of the poll not his post. "plz comment as well as a safeguard against multi-account voting."
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My mistake, it is in the title of the poll not his post. "plz comment as well as a safeguard against multi-account voting."
Eric would never type like that when he is being official. That was only added recently then. The poll has been tampered.
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You guys do relies three months from now we will have the same conversation again right? The biju simply don't work because of the fact everyone is so power hungry at this site they would rather be unfair then play nice.
And if you say that's a lie then your just in denile.
When faced with the freedom to be nasty or rude or crude about a subject human nature will be. We are selfish beings by nature.
People will break what ever laws you make because your laws don't mean shit. Literally they mean nothing... No one is gonna be punished for breaking or lope holing your rules.
So what do you do? Make more rules that mean nothing and void those who want follow? So in the end only a small, very small, portion of SL follows your rules and you aren't rping with anyone else?
In time these rules will split SL and when they do it may very well destroy this site. I mean all official rp rules made at this forum.
You are saying 9 votes is enough to speak for all the people at SL? That's selfish in itself. You all think you are above the other cause you post at this forum? News flash no where in the SL rules does it say you have to have a forum account to rp.
Your rules are bs and your vote is bs. I'm blunt because its true even if you want face it.
I'd think the elder gathered here would understand that. We have seen this happen before. We are going down the path that leads to SLS all over again. A path that splits the people of this site.
Official rp is ruining SL and you're all just so blinded by your egos to be the best at SL and the rule makers you can't see it.
Am I preaching on deaf ears? Probably so. But I love this site and I want just sit back and be quiet to not hurt your feelings.
SL rp use to consist of pming someone and admin if the wanted to rp something, any plot you could think of. One plot didn't need to follow the next. You could have never had a beast before but have it for that night to rp a hunt and the next day be without it again. In the free realm of rp it was people didn't need to be greedy or power hungry cause you could be whatever you wanted.
Why do we keep pushing a system that is failing time and time again? Instead of just going back to a system that was flawless? People had fun, real fun. People got along better, if you didn't get along with someone you never had to rp with them at all. The site was more active, when was the last time you seen a truly large amount of people logged in?
And you could argue well SL will never see numbers like that again Naruto rp is fading. That may be true I want say it isn't. But I also see new player join this site regularly but the majority aren't staying.
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What happens when you wake up one day and the only people left at SL are the hand full that follow "the official system" because it ran everyone else off like it has been doing for so long. Then that hand full can't even get along enough to rp without voiding everything they do?
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It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.
Looks like I need to go to the federal government and demand that all voters must explain their choice when they vote at next year's election then. <.<;
You do realize how silly it absolutely is to just cast aside someone's vote simply because they don't "explain" their choice.
Not to mention, this poll was Eric's creation. You don't have jurisdiction to dictate whose vote counts and whose doesn't. Until Eric amends his post to force the voters to post their explanation, this entire debate is null and void.
Well the federal government does try to make sure that voter fraud doesn't happen. Some states, including my own, instill voter ID laws to prevent such. Some people may complain about it, but if they truly feel strong about being able to vote, then it shouldn't be a problem to register for their ID. I got mine, and I haven't even used it at all. It's literally been collecting dust in my room.
A few votes can tip the balance one way or another. But Eric did say this in the opening post.
I ask that this topic be kept focused on the poll and its logical discussion for as long as possible.
Though discouraged for difficulty of verification and tracking, if you are making a vote for someone who does not wish to make a forum account or does not have one, please state that clearly and in some bold way (larger font, colors, etc. no more than two please) as those will have to be added to the totals at the end of the poll.
That's why I was counting the votes in replies to this thread as well. As far as I could tell, no proxy-votes have been voiced in any replies so far.
What happens when you wake up one day and the only people left at SL are the hand full that follow "the official system" because it ran everyone else off like it has been doing for so long. Then that hand full can't even get along enough to rp without voiding everything they do?
I don't really push the official system as much as I did before. It's not really "official" either. But it's more like a structural system that a group of RPers have made over the years, which gives a history behind it, and is attractive to some. If people want to do what they want, then they can. If they want to say they're the Hokage, then that's fine. They may be alienating themselves from everyone else, which is fine and is their own decision. They can even RP with people in our group. Though that doesn't mean that the groupies are actually going to see them as Hokage. Instead, their characters might laugh it off, since they know that Kite is the current Hokage.
I now-in-days, choose to try and reach out to others and teach them how our group thing works. Maybe if we did more of that and less judging, the community would flourish a bit more. But communication is a two-way street, and some people would rather stay in their own personal bubbles and live out their power fantasies, being unwilling to learn or talk about things. Slightly unhealthy for the mind, but that's fine too.
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I voted for Voiding as for reasons... Well i've posted them in several other topics already..
1.It promotes RP < the main thing i hear from people> Yeah so it does... and then almost every time we're here arguing about it. So why promote RP when it's gonna cause fighting and issues and people getting angry over every single thing..
2. Personally i just don't like them, sorry but most of SL even back then in the old 2005 and now was mostly just Custom stuff people enjoying their game without a care in the world.. then dark times came and the word PERMA-DEAD arose... oh no.... then we included the bijuu when they got accepted into the SL world, then i hate to say it but then a large influx of cannon things just started popping up more... it went from every wanting to be their own thing to thousands of minato's or naruto's or sasukes everywhere...so i'd rather just see it gone. So people won't have a unlimited power source... big whoop it was what 9 people? who sometimes kept it for more then a few months before others got it.... I mean really out of all the owners of the bijuu how many actually got to enjoy a stress less no bs moment after their grace period died out. (a few)
3. Just void them out... i hate to say it but really the only people who want them are challengers who don't really know who much their lives are gonna get hounded after they get them... Owners who have them now.. and people who are gonna get hounded but make people bend backwards so far their spines will look like their rising out the ground.
Welp.. there's my reason. Vote option 3 for me
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It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.
Looks like I need to go to the federal government and demand that all voters must explain their choice when they vote at next year's election then. <.<;
You do realize how silly it absolutely is to just cast aside someone's vote simply because they don't "explain" their choice.
Not to mention, this poll was Eric's creation. You don't have jurisdiction to dictate whose vote counts and whose doesn't. Until Eric amends his post to force the voters to post their explanation, this entire debate is null and void.
Well the federal government does try to make sure that voter fraud doesn't happen. Some states, including my own, instill voter ID laws to prevent such. Some people may complain about it, but if they truly feel strong about being able to vote, then it shouldn't be a problem to register for their ID. I got mine, and I haven't even used it at all. It's literally been collecting dust in my room.
A few votes can tip the balance one way or another. But Eric did say this in the opening post.
I ask that this topic be kept focused on the poll and its logical discussion for as long as possible.
Though discouraged for difficulty of verification and tracking, if you are making a vote for someone who does not wish to make a forum account or does not have one, please state that clearly and in some bold way (larger font, colors, etc. no more than two please) as those will have to be added to the totals at the end of the poll.
That's why I was counting the votes in replies to this thread as well. As far as I could tell, no proxy-votes have been voiced in any replies so far.[/color]
Alright, I can agree with this. My state also asks for identification before voting.
That portion of his speech is explicitly and solely only for proxy votes. You can't vote on this poll if you don't have an account.
The others have accounts and voted.
However, I will desist in pestering about it.
I just, personally, think it's silly that we have to have an explanation just to give a vote. I wasn't even going to post an explanation at all because they are self-explanatory choices that you're choosing.
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Two way street? Perhaps so Kage. I want say it isn't. But I'll say this. Entering the official rp style is probably just not worth the time for these people. I mean would you want to talk to a group of people who do nothing but fight among themselves about everything? Plus whether you admit t or not this community is pushy.
If someone post on a board and it doesn't follow what is seen fit they get blasted and all kinds of junk. We have made it so taboo that its probably quite scary for those outside. I mean they are thinking 'lord do I dare make a move and have to listen to all the bs and bashing that goes on in that group?'
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At the very least it would be helpful to explain your vote if you want to amend the rules, since that could be very nearly anything. And if that wins and then no one knows what we want to amend them to then it's just going to take that much longer to sort them out.
As for Uetto I can see, even having been here just a short time, that there are people like you speak of. Power hungry and the like. That being said there are also people who are not like that. I've had no issue with my bijuu fight with Eiko, meanwhile other people can not even successfully do the IC hunt aspect of the rp.
I don't think they need to be universally voided because the current system is not universally failing.
If the original system was flawless and everyone had fun all the time then why on god's green earth was it changed? Just a massive case of fixing something that isn't broken so much you ruin it?
You are saying you want to void them because the system is faulty but the way you're arguing it makes it seem more like it is the people at fault than the system, which I agree with. As a system I don't think the current rules are broken, but they are faulty to a point where people can take advantage of them, and have been, thus this discussion.
Honestly I think a complete void of the bijuu and the rules could cause just as much fracturing as keeping both of them. People who "officially" have a beast will probably not want to accept the people who "unofficially" claim one. What if 9 guys get together and claim to have all 9 bujuu and go around attacking villages with them? Will other Jinchuriki of the same beast fight them? Will they just be voided?
It seems to be that telling people to just rp whatever they want is more likely to cause people splitting into many various groups each with their own "official" set of the rules than amending the rules or voiding just the rules, at this point. From the way you describe it the community is already at least divided into two groups. The people who do not follow the rules and regulations of the forum and those that do. So I would think the end result of what you propose would just cause the pro forum group to fracture further, as we all clearly do not all get along with each other, which is the opposite of what you want.
Not having to rp with people you don't like is great UNLESS you don't like anyone at all. Group A doesn't like Group B and doesn't rp with them and vice verse. But Group C has no problem with either and rp's with both. Well now Group A and B aren't going to accept rp from group C that happens as a result of rp with their rival group, so now BOTH groups are voiding group C, you get what I'm getting at? Only there will likely be more groups and a much more complicated web of voids.
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I voted for voiding them for reasons that had already been stated in this thread by other people.
I could quote them,but i don't really see the reason of repeating things and i only posted so my vote will count..
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I vote to void them, as they cause too many issues. It would make life slightly nicer for a time.
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So are any other people who have already voted, like myself, having trouble seeing the tally of votes and number of people who have voted too? Is something wrong with the poll, or is this just another joy of using google chrome?
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So are any other people who have already voted, like myself, having trouble seeing the tally of votes and number of people who have voted too? Is something wrong with the poll, or is this just another joy of using google chrome?
Eric intentionally guarded voters/non-voters from seeing the results. For what reason, I don't remember, but if you skim through the thread, he posted his explanation.
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Though it was immediately defeated by Kage listing the results so far.
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I voted to remove biju all-together. Even if there was set rules the power hungry few would use these rules in their favor or find loopholes around said rules. Which in turn will cause more forum argument threads just removing them all together will lift one of the many things that is wrong with SL RPing.
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Or, guys, work with me here...
Why don't we just have a second Bijuu Council? .-.
For those of you youngins that don't even know what that is, you know the wonderful rules that we use for Bijuu? Well, while originally made by Raifudo, there came a time when a select handful of people(selected by the masses) hashed out the more updated rules we use today.
And it work perfectly.
So, why don't we just do that again?
The Jinchuuriki would be on the council by default, or so I would think, and then a select few others as well. We could even vote for said people like before >_>
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... And it work perfectly...
I don't know about "perfectly".
My mistake, it is in the title of the poll not his post. "plz comment as well as a safeguard against multi-account voting."
Eric would never type like that when he is being official. That was only added recently then. The poll has been tampered.
I apologize Dato, I did indeed get sloppy (since the title for the poll was starting to get long and it was pretty early in the morning/late at night when I was making this) I will change it at once. However, I did say "please", so it was more of a request than a demand. Nothing elaborate is really needed for an explanation in order for a vote to be considered "explained". You don't have to go all out on it, just drop a quick word or two to get the point across.
Though it was immediately defeated by Kage listing the results so far.
Not really, you yourself can count the commentary (if you want to go through the thread and tally). Again, the votes for the poll are changeable so there is no need to get too hung up on the counts as of yet.
You guys do relies three months from now we will have the same conversation again right? The biju simply don't work because of the fact everyone is so power hungry at this site they would rather be unfair then play nice...
We won't have to have this discussion again in three months if we just void the biju altogether. A vote to void the biju is a vote to put SL back in the right direction.
#VoidBiju2015, follow us on SLF (Shinobilegends Forum). 8)
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Does SL really need the Bijuu in rp anymore? I mean at this stage in the game, people have claimed other skills that far surpass Bijuu techniques and everyone pretty much has a deep chakra pool.
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Does SL really need the Bijuu in rp anymore? I mean at this stage in the game, people have claimed other skills that far surpass Bijuu techniques and everyone pretty much has a deep chakra pool.
Have you never wanted to ride a Tailed Beast like a horse? Or even launch multiple Tailed Beast Balls for landscaping purposes? It's going to be the goal of my Naruko to free Kurama and treat him like a giant size-changing fox companion/mount/summon. But for now, I'll have to get on my knees to beg for a spot to sign the Fox contract.
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Does SL really need the Bijuu in rp anymore? I mean at this stage in the game, people have claimed other skills that far surpass Bijuu techniques and everyone pretty much has a deep chakra pool.
In my opinion not really. I don't see them holding any meaning for IC purpose.
If they aren't void altogether, like I voted, then I think they should be nothing more than OOC trophies of sort. Not a IC thing that effect rp but rather strictly OOC. I think that'd make them much more simple to 'handle' than IC.
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None of this OOC trophies but not really IC bullshit >.> That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
We either keep them all the way or get rid of them all the way.
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None of this OOC trophies but not really IC bullshit >.> That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
We either keep them all the way or get rid of them all the way.
Then get rid of them.
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Let's get rid of 'em.
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Let's get rid of 'em.
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I still think if they're gotten rid of, something else will lead to more strife. Not only that, but what everyone says on the forums isn't the law of the land. There's plenty of people who are competent RPers that don't ever come to this place. Even if people here decide to abolish or keep the bijuu, people will still choose to use them if they want. In those cases, if you don't want to play with someone who uses them, just don't play with them.
But then we have the issue Deathstroke brought up, of segregation in RP. So in the end, this seems to be a lose-lose situation where no one ends up happy in the end lol If only we could all have fun.
But I still believe there's a lot of custom stuff that kind of make bijuu not that valuable. Characters that are basically gods even without bijuu. I still stand by the fact that I think that the quality of bijuu players depends on the people actually playing them and their attitudes. But that can be applied to anything, really.
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I've seen lots of people today that I haven't seen on the forum at all too. So it seems like a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork to void the bijuu. I don't know why. Like I said that seems like the worst option to me because it is the one that will further segregate the community the most. Maybe there is just built up vitriol over the bijuu I didn't experience though.
Seems like it is going to be between amending the rules and voiding everything at this point.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/33072406.jpg)
^ That is what getting rid of the Bijuu is as an option.
It literally won't solve anything, it'll probably actually cause more problems, if anything, and is the cheapest and easiest way out.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/33072406.jpg)
^ That is what getting rid of the Bijuu is as an option.
It literally won't solve anything, it'll probably actually cause more problems, if anything, and is the cheapest and easiest way out.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/33072406.jpg)
^ That is what getting rid of the Bijuu is as an option.
It literally won't solve anything, it'll probably actually cause more problems, if anything, and is the cheapest and easiest way out.
Welcome to Merica, we loves cheap and easy.
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As much hassle as it is, I think at the very least before the current challengers get their chance to have/finish their matches...you know as well as I that some of these people have been waiting forever to get their turn at bat...well, that is just wrong.
And to throw the baby out with the wash water just because we can't seem to get along and come up with a good solution seems lame as can be to me.
I think to void them now is just going to cause more problems in the long run and further divide us into which host we acknowledge and which ones we do not. Because, you know...people will not stop claiming them just because everyone around them couldn't seem to deal with the whole IC/OOC issue.
I feel that this will potentially take a few pieces of broken glass and further shatter it into a glitter bomb.
Just amend the rules, keep it simple. And anyone who can't seem to deal with conflict nicely and creates a rabid-flamming-personal-hate-filled mess is absolutely denied access/stripped/banned from bijuu participation for 6 months. We need to decrease community sanctioning of such behavior that only further complicates and promotes drama and division over the issue on and off the site.
It is beyond my comprehension to understand or believe that now, that we collectively are so much older and mature than we were when the bijuu were first introduced, that we cannot manage to figure this out without throwing it away altogether.
I think it is time to look at ourselves as those little league parents who bicker and name call over stuff our children could care less about, ruining things for everyone when the kids just want to play and have fun. Surely we can be better than that!
Also due to the wording of some people's posts, it is unclear if they are voiding the rules or the bijuu. It may have been more concise to request people just say which option they voted for, to prevent ballot stuffing, and then once a decision was made which way to jump, hash out the details --should amending the rules be the consensus.
I also notice that not all of the hosts have even voted. I for one will not stand for 'US' making a decision for people who are the most involved without their agreed upon recognition and participation in this process.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/33072406.jpg)
^ That is what getting rid of the Bijuu is as an option.
It literally won't solve anything, it'll probably actually cause more problems, if anything, and is the cheapest and easiest way out.
We are not really taking the problem and moving it somewhere else. If the "Death to the Twins" thread is proof of anything, it is proof that we are only removing one of the many problems that we have around here, not merely shoving the issue somewhere else.
Some hosts unwilling to give anyone a fair (an arbitrary and ambiguous term it seems) chance at the beast started this latest arc of "let's get rid of tailed beasts", along with the reaction from certain challengers to it. The tailed beasts should not be as easy as a drop of a coin to obtain, but at the same time, they should not have been as impossible as certain claimed items either to get a even a shot at it.
... Just amend the rules, keep it simple. And anyone who can't seem to deal with conflict nicely and creates a rabid-flamming-personal-hate-filled mess is absolutely denied access/stripped/banned from bijuu participation for 6 months. We need to decrease community sanctioning of such behavior that only further complicates and promotes drama and division over the issue on and off the site...
That's funny, wrong-doing involving RP (especially tailed beasts) often is not challenged around here without a rabid-flaming-personal-hate-filled mess from my experience. I feel I need not bring up examples both recent and in the past of this, but when "good" people do nothing, "evil" people prevail. I put "good" and "evil" in quotes because it is clearly a matter of who's side you're on when it comes to who is right and who is wrong.
...I also notice that not all of the hosts have even voted. I for one will not stand for 'US' making a decision for people who are the most involved without their agreed upon recognition and participation in this process.
It is still early, plenty of time for them to give their input.
I've seen lots of people today that I haven't seen on the forum at all too. So it seems like a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork to void the bijuu. I don't know why. Like I said that seems like the worst option to me because it is the one that will further segregate the community the most. Maybe there is just built up vitriol over the bijuu I didn't experience though...
Let's put this into perspective. Most of the time, the biju are RP'ed either as internal companions or not at all outside of combat. As far as non-combat is concerned, there will be little to no divsion, because the tailed beasts rarely affect other players IC outside of combat.
It is during combat where we have the most problems with people agreeing, and it is during combat where you will indeed see some division. Those who void the biju will void any claims to tailed beast assistance and power (which few rely on anyways nowadays) while those who don't will accept it. Already you have in various camps people who will jump to void and invalidate stuff just because it's against their local view of what is good RP.
Getting rid of the tailed beasts will neither change that nor exasperate that.
...Not only that, but what everyone says on the forums isn't the law of the land. There's plenty of people who are competent RPers that don't ever come to this place...
Last I checked at least 3/4 of the total jinchurikii, since the latest round of rules was brought up to amend the situation, have had forum accounts (regardless of overall forum activity). Therefore it seems reasonable to assume that most of the people who have a stake in the fate of the tailed beasts will trend towards people who at the very least have a forum account and are capable of putting their input into this matter one way or another.
...It is beyond my comprehension to understand or believe that now, that we collectively are so much older and mature than we were when the bijuu were first introduced, that we cannot manage to figure this out without throwing it away altogether...
Kay, you have surely been here long enough to see that we have been trying to figure this out for years now, amendment after amendment, system change after system change. SL RPers wanting to have fun even at the expense of other RPers has fractured the effectiveness each and every single time.
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Regardless of how the votes go I am considering voiding the beast personally no matter what. It'll probably mean I'll have to ignore most of the people at SL rp wise but I'm cool with that really.
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Sorry to come out of the woodwork,but i don't really see how voiding them could cause more problems/fights than there are already. If anything,i think trying and voiding them for a few months to see how things work is the best option.
The rules have changed so many times and yet,here we are again,with most people voting to change them,again...it just sounds like the perfect definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Than again,that is my opinion,the majority will decide what happens.
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I didn't say it was cause more fights, though I do think others said we'd find something else to fight over. My point was it would just fracture the community into yet further smaller groups.
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What smaller groups?
The way i see it,there have,maybe,always been 2 groups,those that like the bijuu and those that don't.
If the voiding option passes,they only group related change is that some might switch "camp" and those that disliked the bijuu would have it their way for the first time...Unless maybe you refer to the people that might still use them even if they are voided? That's just down to personal preferences,i for one dislike some of the filler jutsus that are on the claimed list and wouldn't want to continue to RP with someone using them in a fight.But nobody can force anyone on how to RP here,so yeah...
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I, honestly, am tired with how many fights and threads I see for the bijuu there are.
It's most likely the number 1 topic going around. Amending the rules can fix a lot of issues, sure, but good luck getting someone to agree on a set of rules. Not only that, but good luck dealing with future unforeseen(!) instances where more changes must be made. Keep in mind, we're where we are now with the rules because of situations arising we didn't consider.
There was initially a set of rules we all agreed on or, at least, accepted for a foundation. And here we are, years later still arguing about them and wanting change.
There will always be issues in SL, but at least getting rid of the bijuu removes a strong cause of them.
If amending the rules comes out on top, I will gladly help with it how I can like I did before. If removing the bijuu from use goes through, then I can help with the story to do so.
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I don't think voiding them will solve much. Very little actually because the way I see it; it will be just the same old same old. There will rise a group of people (like me admittingly) who will just RP with those who still want the Bijuu in play. Those who don't want them will simply ignore us and vice versa on that specific matter, but it will come to when our RPs will butt heads and a forum topic will be made that won't solve anything. (Very optimistic I know) But the real problem is just getting along, Bijuu or not, you think problems on this site will just vanish? The major difference between now and back on '05 was that everyone treated this like a game.
Its like alcohol prohibition in the U.S., the people who wanted alcohol (or in this case "power hungry people" or what have you) didn't sit there and say, "Oh theres a rule that says we can't.." they went out and found ways to get it. If its not Bijuu, it'll be things equivalent. Its putting a band-aid on a wound that needs disinfectant.
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I don't think voiding them will solve much. Very little actually because the way I see it; it will be just the same old same old. There will rise a group of people (like me admittingly) who will just RP with those who still want the Bijuu in play. Those who don't want them will simply ignore us and vice versa on that specific matter, but it will come to when our RPs will butt heads and a forum topic will be made that won't solve anything...
Well, if you know how to actually ignore people, then at no point will the RP's butt heads. You don't ignore people by RPing with them. If a forum topic is made about something like that (Neji forbid a site-wide RP war, unlikely to occur I might add, where many parties are "forced" to RP with each other in order to wage the war) then the majority of the RP rules on that one. If most of the people in that RP void biju, no biju, and vice versa. Not pleased with that result? Leave the RP.
There is no reason for a forum topic to be made, because when those RP's clash, there are some pretty options:
A) Biju don't exist, biju party cannot use biju power, end of story
B) Stop RPing with each other if you can't settle on a middle ground. End of story.
There would no longer be any public commodities, so there would be no reason to force a compromise if the parties are unwilling.
... Its putting a band-aid on a wound that needs disinfectant.
It is usually frowned upon to disinfect players, and though I would recommend Bleach, that would probably kill the site and get SL moderators on the warpath. Just sayin', one player's fun is another's misery, though a trusted judge between parties that mediates all disputes might be a good stitch.
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So, I'm pretty sure people have multiple accounts on the forum... so how does them posting in the topic act as "a safeguard against multi-account voting"? Just curious if a moderator will take into account alt forum accounts when it comes to tallying the votes.
I voted to void the bijuu. I do kind of like Dart's idea in the other topic, but I mainly agree with what people have mentioned previously regarding the headache and troubles. Raifudo made a good point that people are complaining about the rules and will likely do so in the future if they're amended too -- there's always gonna be stuff people disagree upon... it's just part of "group work". There's gotta be compromises, but, I really don't think everyone will come to an agreement on one thing, let alone a whole set of rules... SL folk are usually the people who don't do well with compromising (I've seen it).
So, yeah, guess that's my vote.
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So, I'm pretty sure people have multiple accounts on the forum... so how does them posting in the topic act as "a safeguard against multi-account voting"? Just curious if a moderator will take into account alt forum accounts when it comes to tallying the votes...
It would be easier to tell alt accounts from written posts (however short or long) than from faceless ballots.
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So, I'm pretty sure people have multiple accounts on the forum... so how does them posting in the topic act as "a safeguard against multi-account voting"? Just curious if a moderator will take into account alt forum accounts when it comes to tallying the votes...
It would be easier to tell alt accounts from written posts (however short or long) than from faceless ballots.
IPs and emails can be seen as well.
But really, there's going to be a problem attached to every end of the three choices. People just need to learn that they will come up, and that they'll need to be properly dealt with.
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alts...it stands to reason that if they would do that to fraud the vote then they would also be efficient enough to post a reply as well.
as for IPS? well you do have legitimate members all living in the same house, so that is not a guarantee they are the same person. sometimes you just have to be more trusting and take the best that comes along.
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alts...it stands to reason that if they would do that to fraud the vote then they would also be efficient enough to post a reply as well...
Well, let's at least make 'em work a little eh? ;P
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Forgot to post that I voted for the "amendment" option. :oops:
I, honestly, am tired with how many fights and threads I see for the bijuu there are.
It's most likely the number 1 topic going around. Amending the rules can fix a lot of issues, sure, but good luck getting someone to agree on a set of rules. Not only that, but good luck dealing with future unforeseen(!) instances where more changes must be made. Keep in mind, we're where we are now with the rules because of situations arising we didn't consider.
There was initially a set of rules we all agreed on or, at least, accepted for a foundation. And here we are, years later still arguing about them and wanting change.
There will always be issues in SL, but at least getting rid of the bijuu removes a strong cause of them.
If amending the rules comes out on top, I will gladly help with it how I can like I did before. If removing the bijuu from use goes through, then I can help with the story to do so.
As much as I am inclined to agree with you, I feel that 'character death' is more of an issue on here then the bijuus. :cool:
As much of a vicious cycle the bijuu may be, at least the cycle always come full circle--users each get a fair and equal chance(?) at the process of becoming a Jinchuuriki. (It would greatly help if users stop being jerks to each other and handle their bijuu issues in an adult-like manner)
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Forgot to post that I voted for the "amendment" option. :oops:
I, honestly, am tired with how many fights and threads I see for the bijuu there are.
It's most likely the number 1 topic going around. Amending the rules can fix a lot of issues, sure, but good luck getting someone to agree on a set of rules. Not only that, but good luck dealing with future unforeseen(!) instances where more changes must be made. Keep in mind, we're where we are now with the rules because of situations arising we didn't consider.
There was initially a set of rules we all agreed on or, at least, accepted for a foundation. And here we are, years later still arguing about them and wanting change.
There will always be issues in SL, but at least getting rid of the bijuu removes a strong cause of them.
If amending the rules comes out on top, I will gladly help with it how I can like I did before. If removing the bijuu from use goes through, then I can help with the story to do so.
As much as I am inclined to agree with you, I feel that 'character death' is more of an issue on here then the bijuus. :cool:
As much of a vicious cycle the bijuu may be, at least the cycle always come full circle--users each get a fair and equal chance(?) at the process of becoming a Jinchuuriki. (It would greatly help if users stop being jerks to each other and handle their bijuu issues in an adult-like manner)
Man if you think character death is a problem now, wait a month after the Biju actually get voided. Then we will see where the real problem lies.
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I hope it's not my elaborate ninja timeshare scam. :oops:
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Forgot to post that I voted for the "amendment" option. :oops:
I, honestly, am tired with how many fights and threads I see for the bijuu there are.
It's most likely the number 1 topic going around. Amending the rules can fix a lot of issues, sure, but good luck getting someone to agree on a set of rules. Not only that, but good luck dealing with future unforeseen(!) instances where more changes must be made. Keep in mind, we're where we are now with the rules because of situations arising we didn't consider.
There was initially a set of rules we all agreed on or, at least, accepted for a foundation. And here we are, years later still arguing about them and wanting change.
There will always be issues in SL, but at least getting rid of the bijuu removes a strong cause of them.
If amending the rules comes out on top, I will gladly help with it how I can like I did before. If removing the bijuu from use goes through, then I can help with the story to do so.
As much as I am inclined to agree with you, I feel that 'character death' is more of an issue on here then the bijuus. :cool:
As much of a vicious cycle the bijuu may be, at least the cycle always come full circle--users each get a fair and equal chance(?) at the process of becoming a Jinchuuriki. (It would greatly help if users stop being jerks to each other and handle their bijuu issues in an adult-like manner)
Man if you think character death is a problem now, wait a month after the Biju actually get voided. Then we will see where the real problem lies.
Sadly, I already know where the real problem lies. :oops: It's us and our inability to get along with each other at reasonable level.
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Forgot to post that I voted for the "amendment" option. :oops:
I, honestly, am tired with how many fights and threads I see for the bijuu there are.
It's most likely the number 1 topic going around. Amending the rules can fix a lot of issues, sure, but good luck getting someone to agree on a set of rules. Not only that, but good luck dealing with future unforeseen(!) instances where more changes must be made. Keep in mind, we're where we are now with the rules because of situations arising we didn't consider.
There was initially a set of rules we all agreed on or, at least, accepted for a foundation. And here we are, years later still arguing about them and wanting change.
There will always be issues in SL, but at least getting rid of the bijuu removes a strong cause of them.
If amending the rules comes out on top, I will gladly help with it how I can like I did before. If removing the bijuu from use goes through, then I can help with the story to do so.
As much as I am inclined to agree with you, I feel that 'character death' is more of an issue on here then the bijuus. :cool:
As much of a vicious cycle the bijuu may be, at least the cycle always come full circle--users each get a fair and equal chance(?) at the process of becoming a Jinchuuriki. (It would greatly help if users stop being jerks to each other and handle their bijuu issues in an adult-like manner)
Man if you think character death is a problem now, wait a month after the Biju actually get voided. Then we will see where the real problem lies.
Sadly, I already know where the real problem lies. :oops: It's us and our inability to get along with each other at reasonable level.
No need to try and hide your opinion with smaller text xD It's common knowledge that opposing sides have an incredibly difficult time getting along with one another. That's more of a character flaw for our entire species as opposed to just SL.
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I voted abolish all Bijuu rules and the bijuu as well. If all people wanna do is complain and argue about they want this or that, then no one should have them. I'm sorry, but this simply my strict opinion that bijuu probably never should have been implemented. I dealt with the insecurity of all this and found that no matter what might happen in life, either expected or unexpected, you can't even get a sigh of relief without someone wanting to strip you.
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So far this looks like a tie. Go figure.
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Guess we'll need to set up secondary, tertiary, and so on polls until we break the tie.
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The poll still has a while to keep running. So people can still be swayed one way or another.
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Guess we'll need to set up secondary, tertiary, and so on polls until we break the tie.
Or, the ones who are in the untied camp pick the lesser of their two evils and break the tie. If that doesn't do it, then I am afraid we will have to do this Chunin Exam style.
One shinobi from each side step forward. Each shinobi is tasked with having as much as fun as possible with or without the tailed beasts. The winner claims bragging rights, but also the victory for his/her side. Since fun is incredibly subjective, then it is more a matter of who can get the most people to enjoy the RP with them in their own subjective light of fun, hence gauging fun by the enjoyment of everyone involved in the respective RPs.
Or, we go Hunger Games style and pit all of the voters against each other in a battle to the death. By the time the dust settles three years later, whoever still cares will end the tie.
I of course joke with option 2 and 3, I really only find a tiebreaker by having the non-tie voters change their votes, if such is still possible.
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Or we could just flip a coin.
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Or we could just flip a coin.
I just did and it landed on my choice. GG.
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Or we could just flip a coin.
I just did and it landed on my choice. GG.
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Real men of patrician taste cast lots.
But anyways, we still have until the 23rd until the poll is closed. I'll be counting the current votes in the posts of the thread to see the current actual poll results.
Update
Current results as of this post:
Amend - 9
Abolish - 2
Void - 11
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And yet, this will get SL nowhere. ;)
Just as previous polls were done about varrying issues, I have no doubt that the verdict of this poll will not be respected by some, causing for no progress to be made.
Do prove me wrong, but time and time again, I see the same nonsense.
I can be a bit more blunt...
Congress has low approval ratings, sometimes in the single digits, yet incumbents are elected by an overwhelming majority. One of the primary reasons being, "Well, it's not *my* Senator or Congressman, it's not I who is voting 'wrong, it’s your Congressman and it is you!"
Hate to break it to you all, but it IS *you*. All are playing some role in hindering the progress of of this game now.
I direct this to each and every member, regardless of abilities, status, whatever (yes, this includes myself).
Get off your high horse, and fix it. Yes, it is as easy as it sounds. Why? Because you created it. Instead of excuses, provide solutions and work towards achieving them. If it doesn't work, choose a different path.
We are home to bright minds and incredible people, act like it now. ;)
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Wouldn't say it won't go anywhere if voiding happens. Say somebody who doesn't want to do it goes trying to attack villages with a jinchuuriki character or whatever? If they don't like the person they can just go 'lolnope, your powers don't exist, be normal or get out'. People could still deal with em if they wish, but they couldn't be forced to do so anymore >> so guess you could say if it does happen then better get to practicing your people skills if you still mean to play with them.
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Gitsune wants her voice heard. She votes to void/abolish all bijū as well.
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While i dont have time to elaborate exactly what i want to do with the biju rules. I do vote they stay and we amend the rules
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While i dont have time to elaborate exactly what i want to do with the biju rules. I do vote they stay and we amend the rules
That
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Gitsune wants her voice heard. She votes to void/abolish all bijū as well.
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Already saw that and took note of it.
Amend - 11
Abolish - 2
Void - 12
Total confirmed voters: 25
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Just wondering why the vote numbers aren't public. Like after you vote you could see them.
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Just wondering why the vote numbers aren't public. Like after you vote you could see them.
THIS!
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Just wondering why the vote numbers aren't public. Like after you vote you could see them.
THIS!
I explained why in my very first post, but that will likely be changed fairly shortly.
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Just wondering why the vote numbers aren't public. Like after you vote you could see them.
THIS!
I explained why in my very first post, but that will likely be changed fairly shortly.
I don't see an explanation. Just you saying it wouldn't be shown.
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So i figured i would just make a quick post about a thought that entered my head upon reading ace's post.
We're all voting here right? well i hate to say this but i may just take back my vote and just say screw it.
Look at us all here, we're honestly arguing about just 9 beasts i mean half of the supposed voters want them here and half don't. so what's gonna happen when the poll ends just put up with it even though apparently half the people here want them gone or have them be taken away and have half the people on here ignore said vote and continue to use them..
Something needs to be reached and done about this whole topic (the nine tailed beasts) because if half the forum is gonna be on it's period whenever anything about these things pop up then what's the point in having them be fun or if at all.
I don't remember who suggested it but the having them all be the village guardians sounds good (equal out everyone's power and don't involve them in war) but from what I've just been seeing putting them in everyone's potential hands is what's started many debates.
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Just wondering why the vote numbers aren't public. Like after you vote you could see them.
THIS!
I explained why in my very first post, but that will likely be changed fairly shortly.
I don't see an explanation. Just you saying it wouldn't be shown.
...so other than reading commentary the end results of the poll will largely be unknown until about 9/23.
To encourage people to read the discussion in order to get a general vibe on how things are going instead of just looking at the poll and jumping to conclusions. Not stated though, is that I also didn't want a popularity dump (albeit, seeing ass how evenly the two main points are it that was not a fruitful concern to have) of sorts.
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So i figured i would just make a quick post about a thought that entered my head upon reading ace's post.
We're all voting here right? well i hate to say this but i may just take back my vote and just say screw it.
Look at us all here, we're honestly arguing about just 9 beasts i mean half of the supposed voters want them here and half don't. so what's gonna happen when the poll ends just put up with it even though apparently half the people here want them gone or have them be taken away and have half the people on here ignore said vote and continue to use them..
Something needs to be reached and done about this whole topic (the nine tailed beasts) because if half the forum is gonna be on it's period whenever anything about these things pop up then what's the point in having them be fun or if at all.
I don't remember who suggested it but the having them all be the village guardians sounds good (equal out everyone's power and don't involve them in war) but from what I've just been seeing putting them in everyone's potential hands is what's started many debates.
You should change your vote to amend the rules then since that would include changing them to support the proposed "guardian" format, which I also approve of. That's why it mentions change them in any form, I assume a total overhaul is included.
Really I think that's a good way to do it. The bijuu will still exist, they'll still be in rp, they'll still be relevant, but we won't have the fights about them anymore. We'll still have the fights about everything else but hey, take what you can get.
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So i figured i would just make a quick post about a thought that entered my head upon reading ace's post.
We're all voting here right? well i hate to say this but i may just take back my vote and just say screw it.
Look at us all here, we're honestly arguing about just 9 beasts i mean half of the supposed voters want them here and half don't. so what's gonna happen when the poll ends just put up with it even though apparently half the people here want them gone or have them be taken away and have half the people on here ignore said vote and continue to use them..
Something needs to be reached and done about this whole topic (the nine tailed beasts) because if half the forum is gonna be on it's period whenever anything about these things pop up then what's the point in having them be fun or if at all.
I don't remember who suggested it but the having them all be the village guardians sounds good (equal out everyone's power and don't involve them in war) but from what I've just been seeing putting them in everyone's potential hands is what's started many debates.
You should change your vote to amend the rules then since that would include changing them to support the proposed "guardian" format, which I also approve of. That's why it mentions change them in any form, I assume a total overhaul is included.
Really I think that's a good way to do it. The bijuu will still exist, they'll still be in rp, they'll still be relevant, but we won't have the fights about them anymore. We'll still have the fights about everything else but hey, take what you can get.
The beasts will come up again the moment somebody decides to initiate a village attack (more likely large scale than small scale would this become an immediate issue). Additionally, villages that might spring up would never have a chance at the beasts, unless a tourney or war trades them over (in which case issues will definitely evolve). The beasts will also come up if someone attempts something that involves the beasts in any way (Senju Grand Tree chakra style theft for example, or the beasts teaching a new technique if that is let into the system).
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Yes they will come up if someone chooses to interact with them. I don't really see your point. People could feasibly disagree about nearly anything. This would just make the bijuu something that are there instead of trophies to fight over though. It's a much less aggressive system.
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Why don't we just have our little vote and who ever votes to keep them keeps on rping with them and those of us who vote to void them just ignore them rp wise and everyone shut up and go abotu their business and blah blah blah...
Really it is as simple as that. If you want them then rp with them; if you do not then ignore them rp wise.
Just rp whatever makes you happy and to hell with everybody else. So what if our rps contradict each other it's not the end of the world. If it bothers you that much then just don't rp with the people that use them or vice versa.
it is really easy at SL to do considering we have clans and such. Hell you could even rp two Konohas or another village on this site easily just ignore the people in the other one. They can't force you not to ignore them or to rp with them.
In the end though I still vote void just because I think that method will cause the most but hurt to people and that rather tickles me. truly not matter what the out come is none of it matters.
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Just to put this out there, if the Tailed Beasts are voided, I'm totally claiming Mecha-Kurama.
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Just to put this out there, if the Tailed Beasts are voided, I'm totally claiming Mecha-Kurama.
Have fun with that, i'll make sure to scratch Ame off my visit list (not that I was a frequent visitor anyways) since even a variant of tailed beasts is too close for my tastes.
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That's ok they'll make a mecha-Eric too.
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Just to put this out there, if the Tailed Beasts are voided, I'm totally claiming Mecha-Kurama.
Have fun with that, i'll make sure to scratch Ame off my visit list (not that I was a frequent visitor anyways) since even a variant of tailed beasts is too close for my tastes.
It's nowhere close to Tailed Beast level. It's just a big summon.
But if you never visit Ame, you'll never get to see Kokuo clop around majestically in parades and ceremonies. (Referring to the other thread's proposition.)
Anyways, even if we void the Tailed Beasts, there will still be big threads about other things not entirely concerning them. I'm sure that we've learned that in the past few days.
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I will change my vote to "amending" the rules if my proposal is considered seriously by all.
Let's see some love my way, huh?
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I will change my vote to "amending" the rules if my proposal is considered seriously by all.
Let's see some love my way, huh?
My vote shall remain void them for now, however, Dato's suggestion on another topic is very reasonable.
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Just to put this out there, if the Tailed Beasts are voided, I'm totally claiming Mecha-Kurama.
Have fun with that, i'll make sure to scratch Ame off my visit list (not that I was a frequent visitor anyways) since even a variant of tailed beasts is too close for my tastes.
It's nowhere close to Tailed Beast level. It's just a big summon.
But if you never visit Ame, you'll never get to see Kokuo clop around majestically in parades and ceremonies. (Referring to the other thread's proposition.)
Anyways, even if we void the Tailed Beasts, there will still be big threads about other things not entirely concerning them. I'm sure that we've learned that in the past few days.
Things not concerning them can be solved as easily as, "My clan hall my rules", or even "my village my rules". Plus there can be multiple continuums, as Uetto earlier stated.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
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I think people have to remember that Biju aren't for everyone and that alone is the big problem. The thirsty-ness of your own power hunger.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
There are other options on the table if we choose to amend though. If we all choose to void, then no better options will be able to be properly discussed. I like Dart's idea, and I also like how the Tailed Beasts were represented with their Jinchuriki in the latest filler arc:
Killer Bee Rappuden.
- Tailed Beasts are in chibi form
- Their relationship and workings with their respective Jinchuriki is similar to that of the Inuzuka's shinobi and their dogs
- They have been pretty debuffed in power, but are still able to enter full size, but for a short period of time (this was due to plot reasons)
- By their powers combined, they become Super Sentai Jinchuriki (this is seriously what happened)
Watch here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-shippuden/episode-429-killer-bee-rappuden-part-1-684435
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
There are other options on the table if we choose to amend though. If we all choose to void, then no better options will be able to be properly discussed. I like Dart's idea, and I also like how the Tailed Beasts were represented with their Jinchuriki in the latest filler arc:
Killer Bee Rappuden.
- Tailed Beasts are in chibi form
- Their relationship and workings with their respective Jinchuriki is similar to that of the Inuzuka's shinobi and their dogs
- They have been pretty debuffed in power, but are still able to enter full size, but for a short period of time (this was due to plot reasons)
- By their powers combined, they become Super Sentai Jinchuriki (this is seriously what happened)
Watch here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-shippuden/episode-429-killer-bee-rappuden-part-1-684435
I still think we can find a way to make it work with the biju how they are, and just alter the rules or something.
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For the people who are saying that they should 'just change the rules', why not also offer a suggestion to what they should change and how they should amend it. That way everyone's basically brainstorming and we can have more options to choose from in the end if amending the rules is what you all agree on.
It's much more constructive than just saying 'fix it'.
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I haven't had time to actually sit down and read this post as it's been going on awhile, and the reason I haven't proposed altered rules is because I don't just want to repeat something someone else said, but I can give my opinion anyway
I think the current method of custom rules is a good idea, with the acceptation that we either remove the OOc setting altogether, or make it where the fights have to be indefinitely OOC or IC. So no forever long hunt leading up to an ooc match.
I think that both the participants of the biju match should have available and provide a list of any and all custom techniques that they have/intend to use during the match. This would be done to settle any void disagreements before the match, and it could be set in place where once everything has been accepted neither party can try to void something later, as they've already accepted it.
Of course most of what i'm bringing up is in regard to decreasing Biju battles that lead to forever arguments between participants and judges that ruin the match altogether.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
There are other options on the table if we choose to amend though. If we all choose to void, then no better options will be able to be properly discussed. I like Dart's idea, and I also like how the Tailed Beasts were represented with their Jinchuriki in the latest filler arc:
Killer Bee Rappuden.
- Tailed Beasts are in chibi form
- Their relationship and workings with their respective Jinchuriki is similar to that of the Inuzuka's shinobi and their dogs
- They have been pretty debuffed in power, but are still able to enter full size, but for a short period of time (this was due to plot reasons)
- By their powers combined, they become Super Sentai Jinchuriki (this is seriously what happened)
Watch here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-shippuden/episode-429-killer-bee-rappuden-part-1-684435
I still think we can find a way to make it work with the biju how they are, and just alter the rules or something.
Can only watch if premium, IIRC.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
There are other options on the table if we choose to amend though. If we all choose to void, then no better options will be able to be properly discussed. I like Dart's idea, and I also like how the Tailed Beasts were represented with their Jinchuriki in the latest filler arc:
Killer Bee Rappuden.
- Tailed Beasts are in chibi form
- Their relationship and workings with their respective Jinchuriki is similar to that of the Inuzuka's shinobi and their dogs
- They have been pretty debuffed in power, but are still able to enter full size, but for a short period of time (this was due to plot reasons)
- By their powers combined, they become Super Sentai Jinchuriki (this is seriously what happened)
Watch here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-shippuden/episode-429-killer-bee-rappuden-part-1-684435
I still think we can find a way to make it work with the biju how they are, and just alter the rules or something.
Can only watch if premium, IIRC.
Premium gets the latest episode, which is part 2 of that one. But the first part gives you the general gist of what they're all about in Bee's dream.
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That moment when you remember you have not voted yet.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Dart's suggestion, either, but for now, my vote remains the same (in the event that the amend rules option is majority vote, then I'll propose that we perhaps go with that route).
There are other options on the table if we choose to amend though. If we all choose to void, then no better options will be able to be properly discussed. I like Dart's idea, and I also like how the Tailed Beasts were represented with their Jinchuriki in the latest filler arc:
Killer Bee Rappuden.
- Tailed Beasts are in chibi form
- Their relationship and workings with their respective Jinchuriki is similar to that of the Inuzuka's shinobi and their dogs
- They have been pretty debuffed in power, but are still able to enter full size, but for a short period of time (this was due to plot reasons)
- By their powers combined, they become Super Sentai Jinchuriki (this is seriously what happened)
Watch here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/naruto-shippuden/episode-429-killer-bee-rappuden-part-1-684435
I still think we can find a way to make it work with the biju how they are, and just alter the rules or something.
Can only watch if premium, IIRC.
Premium gets the latest episode, which is part 2 of that one. But the first part gives you the general gist of what they're all about in Bee's dream.
MY B. I watched #2 today and saw where they went Kamen Rider and figured you were talking about that one, not #1.
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I say all those in favor of voiding the beast just ignore the people that voted for the other options. Like literally walk right past them in rp talk to the people around them but never even acknowledge them.
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I say all those in favor of voiding the beast just ignore the people that voted for the other options. Like literally walk right past them in rp talk to the people around them but never even acknowledge them.
That eliminates the whole point of a vote in the first place. If people were coming in and/or going out with that mind-set, we're going to have a pretty big split in RP.
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Well Kage, it's only 32 people anyway that will be split. The rest of SL will do like they always do. Enjoy their game play without dealing with our very vocal and argumentative minority.
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Guys, I have an amazing idea to solve all of this. Now, hear me out.
Just make me...the jinchuuriki of the ten tails.
jk, I don't want that...BUT, here's my idea: We let the bijuu "roam" as "themselves". And who do we let control the beasts? The people who are the current jinchuuriki. Who ever control the bijuu can do anything with it, like attack a village, defend a village, do nothing with it, etc.
Even though the beast can't die, the owner of the beast can lose the biju by having it die in battle or letting it become captured. So if a group of people were to kill a beast, the next time the beast were to resurrect, the person who delivered the killing blow will become the owner.
Now, if the beast were to enter battle, the owner can't be with the beast. It'll literally be the beast by itself. The beast can't have any allies be in the same battlefield as the beast.
Also, to adjust to the OPness (lol) of SL, I say we seriously buff the bijuu. Like, super duper frkn buff. Like, if you wanted to fight the bijuu, you have to go with a group. I don't care if you have 16 resets and 5 sharingans/rinnegans and passive senjutsu...you're going to die if you go it alone. It's that buffed. It's gonna be like a dungeon raid and the bijuu is hella OP. Like, the bijuu can seriously brush off attacks.
How do you kill/capture a bijuu and how does one gauge the strength of a bijuu?
Well, the bijuu have all the same strength. Meaning, they're all OP at the same level. Like, if the one tail were to fight the nine tail, they would be the same strength. Here's the difference.
To kill a bijuu, you must kill them equivalent to the amount of tails they have. So, back to the example: If the one and nine tail were to fight, they would be the same strength. But if the one tail were to die, that's it. But if the nine tails were to die, the one tail would have to be killed 8 more times.
I say we do this for just a year. It's something different to the norm and I think it's pretty cool.
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
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I think my idea just keeps them in play while making them interesting in another manner.
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
Why don't we ban all rp EXCEPT for bijuu battles/hunts for a month and see where that goes.
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
Why don't we ban all rp EXCEPT for bijuu battles/hunts for a month and see where that goes.
I move to void all RP except for Cybering.
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
Why don't we ban all rp EXCEPT for bijuu battles/hunts for a month and see where that goes.
I move to void all RP except for Cybering.
Let's just void the entire site for a month and all play another game in that time.
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
Why don't we ban all rp EXCEPT for bijuu battles/hunts for a month and see where that goes.
Even if you are joking, I have to point out that that would be impossible because of all of the non-biju battle/hunt RP, even among the beast-lovers of the site.
That moment when you remember you have not voted yet.
Unless I'm reading the polls wrong, I think you may have misclicked. :cry:
Speaking of the polls, yo Kage, you were keeping count or what?
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How about....
We ban bijuu for a month. Eh? No one uses them or anything in rp. Then if that month goes by fine we take it from there.
So instead of looking at ban or allow why not go with a middle ground and just take a bijuu break for a month. ~
Why don't we ban all rp EXCEPT for bijuu battles/hunts for a month and see where that goes.
I move to void all RP except for Cybering.
Ban Cybering and you'll lose see SL's playerbase cut in half.
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Well, the poll officially closed on the 23rd of September (roughly 2 days ago now) and the votes on the hard poll are pretty much half land half. Naturally, there were enough voters for there to be a technical tiebreaker if those who voted "abolish biju rules entirely" switched to either ban the biju altogether or amend the rules.
Other than that, we could count up the number of votes + commentary posts and see if we get a different tally in order to pick out a winner of sorts.
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Well if you consider the fact there were three votes for getting rid of the rules, which in some way can be considered amending them, then getting rid of the Biju system actually lost by three votes.
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I still recommended a temporary ban.
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What if we just make more bijuu? Enough for everyone to have one.
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So wait now that the polls over someone can just switch their vote to decide a winner?
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Well if you consider the fact there were three votes for getting rid of the rules, which in some way can be considered amending them, then getting rid of the Biju system actually lost by three votes.
If you consider that throwing away a broken toy is not fixing/amending it, then no, not really. It's not quite throwing away the whole toybox, but it's not fixing the toy either.
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But as Rusaka mentioned, they were not for getting rid of the bijuu. I think it would be helpful to start working one rules one at a time...to see what might be considered a standard thing people prefer. Such as.
1] Hosts must commit to activity.
What exactly does this mean?
A thread could be set up for..."Bijuu Rules Workshop?"
The first post to contain the current rule under discussion. Then replies center on that one issue until something is posed that we can all accept.
Then move on to the next one to discuss with edits....Keep the adopted Rule in one text color and the current one under discussion in another color.
It will hardly hurt to work on that until the issue of to keep or to scrap them is resolved...if ever.
I will just go ahead and do that. If the idea is ok with folks, the topic could be stickified, If it is not, the thread can just be deleted.
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I'm sorry, but if abolish the rules counts as amending then the poll was rigged. I stated people will find loopholes in the rules and total biju anarchy lost
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it doesn't really count as amending the rules. but neither does it count as getting rid of the bijuu.
either way, we are tied as to the two main wishes of amending and getting rid of bijuu.
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There is still figurative time! I can re-open the poll and those in that middle fork can choose one or the other. Just say the word. 8)
I am, much like Uetto, totally fine with completely ignoring the tailed beasts if a tie is going to be treated as "let's work on amending the rules anyways".
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and for those who do not choose to ignore the bijuu, it is nice to have discussion going for improvement of the system.
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How about we abolish SL so we can all quit and be free of this place? All of us are trapped in here with each other.
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How about we abolish SL so we can all quit and be free of this place? All of us are trapped in here with each other.
You're free to leave. <3
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I say the 15 of us just never rp with the 15 of them ever again.
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
Keep the rule amenders and any of their constituents on their side. :twisted:
All jokes aside, nobody up for a switch of votes? I am now an even sadder panda. :cry:
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
Keep the rule amenders and any of their constituents on their side. :twisted:
All jokes aside, nobody up for a switch of votes? I am now an even sadder panda. :cry:
Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of having the vote if after the results are posted people can change sides to change the result?
I mean we tried to have a discussion about it and there was a tie, wouldn't it be kind of crappy for one side or the other to win now because someone went, "**** it, I don't care, I'll just change my vote so there's a winner." ?
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it is certainly not something the 30+ of us could make a site wide rule anyhow.
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
Keep the rule amenders and any of their constituents on their side. :twisted:
All jokes aside, nobody up for a switch of votes? I am now an even sadder panda. :cry:
Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of having the vote if after the results are posted people can change sides to change the result?
I mean we tried to have a discussion about it and there was a tie, wouldn't it be kind of crappy for one side or the other to win now because someone went, "**** it, I don't care, I'll just change my vote so there's a winner." ?
If my memory serves, the results had been posted for those who voted long before the poll actually closed. Naturally, we would want to avoid cases where lots are cast just for craps and giggles.
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
Keep the rule amenders and any of their constituents on their side. :twisted:
All jokes aside, nobody up for a switch of votes? I am now an even sadder panda. :cry:
Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of having the vote if after the results are posted people can change sides to change the result?
I mean we tried to have a discussion about it and there was a tie, wouldn't it be kind of crappy for one side or the other to win now because someone went, "**** it, I don't care, I'll just change my vote so there's a winner." ?
If my memory serves, the results had been posted for those who voted long before the poll actually closed. Naturally, we would want to avoid cases where lots are cast just for craps and giggles.
I meant the final result. It just seems weird to do that. If one choice had won and there was no tie would you have still offered people a chance to change their vote and change the result? If not I don't know why it's offered now.
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I say those who wish to amend the rules should build a giant wall, keeping those bijuu abolishers in their own country.
Keep the rule amenders and any of their constituents on their side. :twisted:
All jokes aside, nobody up for a switch of votes? I am now an even sadder panda. :cry:
Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of having the vote if after the results are posted people can change sides to change the result?
I mean we tried to have a discussion about it and there was a tie, wouldn't it be kind of crappy for one side or the other to win now because someone went, "**** it, I don't care, I'll just change my vote so there's a winner." ?
If my memory serves, the results had been posted for those who voted long before the poll actually closed. Naturally, we would want to avoid cases where lots are cast just for craps and giggles.
I meant the final result. It just seems weird to do that. If one choice had won and there was no tie would you have still offered people a chance to change their vote and change the result? If not I don't know why it's offered now.
If there had been a winner (even by a close margin) there would not have been a need to. However, with it being a 50/50 split the results do not give a whole lot of actionability to either side (biju don't get banned in general, and amending the rules is not fully supported either, though talks will be held about amendment in the meantime). Because it was a tie with the middle option having 3 votes (an odd number) then had that option not been included, theoretically we would have had a clear if not close winner one way or the other rather than the tie situation that we have now.
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or those three people, not being provided an option they wish, would have not voted at all and we still would be tied.
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or those three people, not being provided an option they wish, would have not voted at all and we still would be tied.
I think that would have been unlikely, but possible.
Nevertheless, what now? This was a worst-case scenario situation almost quite literally, so unless we're fine with biju banners and amenders going their separate ways in RP, we have to figure out something.
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I had a crazy though seemingly inefficient. I say for 3 months we ban biju if it showing to cause problems after 1 month at least a poll can be opened to go to the amended rules the mount of votes to switch is at least 30% more, rather then how the US handles president impeachments with two-thirds vote.
But, what is democracy in 'official' SL RPing when it is mostly been an oligarchy.
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I've already voted for a temporary ban of the biju, but others don't seem to want to do that.
*breaking away from topic*
As for being an oligarchy, I don't see it as that, SL itself is small. The forums are free for anyone and everyone to use. They're free to post and so on.
I remember when Bec, Ichirou, and a few others weren't even known on SL and now they have forum accounts and are given free reign to discuss things.
Maybe you're speaking of Me, Eric, Kayenta, and others when that word pops into your mind? The way I post, what I post, and so on is different than someone else, but that doesn't give me (or this oligarchy) automatic power over anyone. Bec could very well say something and everyone else agrees with him.
It's a small group of people who control a small group of people; themselves.
I've already said this before. We do not go out of our way to make sure everyone on SL follows us. It's when they take the time to go on here, want a biju, and so on that they enter themselves in here.
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Well truthfully how will the bijuu effect rp one way or the other? I mean with respect to these two distinct camps avoiding each other in rp, as someone proposed to do?
So I am pro-rule change. How many people rp with me these days anyway? I don't even have a bijuu nor RP with anyone who does other than Warren, Madara...and that is hardly an issue as all nayeli is doing is trying to incite the bijuu to revolt against his host - his agenda anyway - while she serves coffee. Ah yes, Raihana and Neala are around the Zero tails with Ryoji but whoop whoop, as if despair isn't their whole world anyway? Large chakra pools? Of no concern. Who doesn't have one? What else could possibly impact my characters with or without bijuu anyway?
To me it's just not an RP situation that will change my RP one way or the other. Which is quite sad when you think about it. The bijuu should have been used more effectively in RP and the loss or continued existence of the beasts should impact the storylines going on in the world more than that.
About the only person who I RP with where the bijuu seem to effect storyline at all is Warren. It has been years since the whole village had to go out and chase down a host run amok and seek to control him as he tried to master his bijuu. These days people don't hardly bother with such a public display of trying to master their beasts. Which, as I said, is just sad. It's almost as if they are scared to show themselves as being the least bit vulnerable to the overwhelming power and strength the beasts posses. And they do possess that power. The best friend scenario takes years of hard work and being bonded to the beast and many successes and failures before that sort of relationship is even possible. But like so many things, this lengthy rp gets the fast track either due to whatever reasoning is going on or the quick turn over of hosts before such an event can occur.
I know with Yugito, when she became a host for the second time, I pulled the canon prior relationship out of my hat. And it was a good thing too for the number of challenges flying at my head would not have permitted me to do RP anyway. All in all being a host was a complete waste of my time, for I am here for the RP not the hassle matches turned out to be so I ended up giving it back to Zenaku and was much better off for it. Again, sad, cause Yugito with the Nibi just tickles my sense of what can be right with the world. Oh well, she has her Neko mount for the forest fighting.
Oy, didn't mean to go into whine fest 2015 there but...just some late afternoon reflections during an RP lull.
Too funny.
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Well truthfully how will the bijuu effect rp one way or the other? I mean with respect to these two distinct camps avoiding each other in rp, as someone proposed to do?
The village boards are already split in RP and OOC mostly for people want want to do random shenanigans can without being a burden to others RP. So how will that work out? Of course without one being considered "OOC" and what not."
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As my post had basically said, most forward. :D
But at the same time, I saw this coming- tie or no tie. =)
The frustration exhibited by the rest of SL continues to amaze me.
But as I say, those remaining silent are at fault as well.
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I think she meant it as 'How will bijuu effect RP in a story sense'. Because like she stated, the large chakra pool that the bijuu is supposed to grant you is already in use by everyone ever. Super speed/strength? Nope, don't need a bijuu for that either. Only thing it really does is give you a bijuu chakra cloak if you choose to use it, but there's so many other chakra cloaks/auras/trousers that are out there.
Very few people who have Bijuu actually use it in their RP. Or at least many more people do the same thing a bijuu can do without one at all, basically making it a moot point. At least that's what I got out of it.
Personally, I don't care whether it's used or not. If they're not used, people will replace them and find things to argue about still. If they're used, people will still argue. Such is life lol
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Honestly, It is really difficult to explain why this is just a stupid idea when people have no intention of listening to an opinion that does not cater to their ideals, but I’m gonna give it a shot.
First off, getting rid of Biju is unfair for those who have spent significant amounts of time fighting just to get a chance at earning a beast. This is a painstakingly long process that most of us have had to go through, and to throw it away is literally a slap in our faces. Just because some of you don’t actually care what happens, does not mean others don’t. In fact, I care very much what happens, because this is my ONLY reason for playing SL anymore.
Second, the beasts are not the problem here; the people are.
What I mean by that is people only fight over beasts because they grant the highest buffs this RP world has to offer. There is no one here who can deny that tailed beasts provide the largest chakra pools, strongest techniques, and overall highest prestige when it comes to in game items, while staying *legitimate *(Keyword).
Except maybe Warren, because he argues literally everything that I say.
If you take the beasts away, all that will be left are in game items, and village ranks. So give it a month or two, and topics will start to sprout up about people who are battling to collect weapons, or maybe coveted techniques, and the arguments will be just as heated as the Biju topics.
It’s not the beasts who are flawed, it’s the community as a whole. We are the ones who start the arguments. We are the ones who break the rules to keep what we want. If you truly believe that the beasts are what is causing all the Drama, then you are truly ignorant to the world around you.
Seeing as I am the one preaching, I’ll go ahead and use myself as an example.
I have already decided that if the beasts are voided, I am going to fight and kill as many people as I can IC before Ryoji’s inevitable demise. Why would I do that? Because I am here on SL to fight for the highests stakes I can.
At first it was the beasts who I wanted, because it was something I could strive for that actually amounted to something slightly important. It was something I could focus my time on here on SL.
Though with those goals being taken away from me, I must look elsewhere for entertainment; and what higher stakes are there than your character's life? Years of hard work that can be taken away at any time. It’s great! Not only that, but there are a number of people on my shit list who I would sell my lung for in order to grind their hard work into dust. The reason I don’t do that is because I have something like tailed beasts to occupy my time and focus my energy into, as opposed to ruining the game for other people like I openly plan to do should this actually come through.
Of course that example is a bit extreme, but you get the point. People strive for conflict, that's why something like world peace is an impossibility…
Too philosophical? Yeah I thought so too.
Getting rid of the beasts is a temporary fix, to a permanent problem, and I’m blown away that you all don’t see that.
Just as a hypothetical, say we do ban the beasts. What is to stop someone from just claiming all nine of the beasts, and waiting for their inevitable reinstatement? I mean, if he did the RP to collect them all, then who are you to say he does not have them? Sure they were void by the handful of people who use the forum, but now they aren’t, and he did all the legitimate Rp to get them. Do you plan to ignore his hard work because he did exactly what has been suggested a number of times, and simply ignored the people who voted to ban the Biju? Food for thought.
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Numerous times over the years I have had to readjust my rp goals. Why? People leave, I get to be the loser in a conflict, some plot changes my character's life and so on. The story evolves. I stay because I love to RP.
I dont' care if it's peeling potatoes, sealing or extracting bijuu, or blowing up Konoha on a cool date with Cmage.
I am sorry that you have pigeonholed yourself in this manner though by limiting yourself to one goal and only placing meaning on that one goal. I feel you have much more to offer the community than being a host.
But I get what you are saying. Hey, it is finally your turn and what...we are quitting and going home now. Come on guys you suck!!!!
Still, it is impossible to ruin my hard work, my characters, my rp, my fun here. many people have tried over the years and yet I remain. so...it is so simple too...
ha ha...uhm, no, kay, thanks, bye-bye. You burn the deck of cards? I will make more and continue that late night poker game at Osa's, raising my brats, training people and myself...questing for adventure, and stealing a peek at Asadi when he streaks by. I am here till Neji gives up the ghost on this old realm and sends us all packing.
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Numerous times over the years I have had to readjust my rp goals. Why? People leave, I get to be the loser in a conflict, some plot changes my character's life and so on. The story evolves. I stay because I love to RP.
I dont' care if it's peeling potatoes, sealing or extracting bijuu, or blowing up Konoha on a cool date with Cmage.
I am sorry that you have pigeonholed yourself in this manner though by limiting yourself to one goal and only placing meaning on that one goal. I feel you have much more to offer the community than being a host.
But I get what you are saying. Hey, it is finally your turn and what...we are quitting and going home now. Come on guys you suck!!!!
Still, it is impossible to ruin my hard work, my characters, my rp, my fun here. many people have tried over the years and yet I remain. so...it is so simple too...
ha ha...uhm, no, kay, thanks, bye-bye. You burn the deck of cards? I will make more and continue that late night poker game at Osa's, raising my brats, training people and myself...questing for adventure, and stealing a peek at Asadi when he streaks by. I am here till Neji gives up the ghost on this old realm and sends us all packing.
It's not that I have limited myself to beasts alone. I said I fight for high stakes, and as it stood Biju were the highest I could go without ruining the game for others.
Though that was not the focus on my Post. The main point was that people will fight for any reason, and Biju are just the most popular. Take the Biju away, and people will find the next best thing to fight about.
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I just find this entire poll to be hilariously idiotic due to the number of people who have argued vociferously to be rid of the Bijuu when, they do not Rp with the general public, haven't played SL in a number of years, have never been apart of the Bijuu affairs, and now come out of the woodwork and are rallying for a change that literally has no effect on them. Like honestly, some of these votes need to be reconsidered and then made null.
Oh I know I'm going to grab some heat here for this, and for those of you who know I'm speaking of you in this post, crawl back into the corners of obscurity where you belong and please leave the things that so many people hold precious alone.
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and there we have it. i get what i want or I am going to act horrible and be as hateful as possible.
yes...it is the people, not the bijuu.
many times I have broached the subject of sportsmanlike behavior.
oh well.
I am off to enjoy my day. have fun folks.
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and there we have it. i get what i want or I am going to act horrible and be as hateful as possible.
yes...it is the people, not the bijuu.
many times I have broached the subject of sportsmanlike behavior.
oh well.
I am off to enjoy my day. have fun folks.
And classic passive aggressive Kayenta. :D You have a fantastic day.
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I mean, it's not like that small interaction didn't just prove my point or anything >.>
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This topic is going nowhere. Lock maybe? Seems we're going ahead with amending them already, yes?
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This topic is going nowhere. Lock maybe? Seems we're going ahead with amending them already, yes?
If the rules are amended, then we are going to end up in the same situation we are right now. I'd rather not care if we abolish the bijuu and do Dart's idea, that way we have at least a good plan and no one pissing on each other over something stupid.
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Does make me wonder what people think this next 'something' people'd fight over would be. On the fly I can't really think of much anything unique besides SSM swords, and even out of those its largely just samehada's fusion nonsense that couldn't be replicated with relative ease.
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Does make me wonder what people think this next 'something' people'd fight over would be. On the fly I can't really think of much anything unique besides SSM swords, and even out of those its largely just samehada's fusion nonsense that couldn't be replicated with relative ease.
Sword of Kusanagi, Yata mirror, Samehada, Edo tensei, Summons, Clan ranks, custom stuff that imitates any of the previously mentioned Items
I could go on for ever.
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My sari, go-go boots of invulnerability, or Uchia eyeball hair pin.
And you know....
(http://neonate.punkcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/st_patricks_theyre-after-me-lucky-charms.jpg)
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Does make me wonder what people think this next 'something' people'd fight over would be. On the fly I can't really think of much anything unique besides SSM swords, and even out of those its largely just samehada's fusion nonsense that couldn't be replicated with relative ease.
Sword of Kusanagi, Yata mirror, Samehada, Edo tensei, Summons, Clan ranks, custom stuff that imitates any of the previously mentioned Items
I could go on for ever.
You can literally ignore anybody's claims to 1/3rd of that stuff (Yata mirror, custom stuff that imitates previously mentioned items, summons, and clan ranks) without anyone but the RPer who has it (and a few of their associates) getting too upset over it.
I agree with your earlier sentiment that people are problematic, but people can be ignored. Issues compound with bad reception when the issues can't just be shoved aside (biju, the only thing in this entire SL game that most forum goers as a whole have not voided/worked out at will/convenience). Edo Tensei, hiraishin, techniques don't even get all that heated anymore (even then they were far less frequent in occurence).
Other than character death, there is no other issue I am aware of besides biju (and RP involving it) that swirls such a negative stir around here. Not even when Zenaku was around to pretty much lord over the beasts and swat his lessers in zone fighting.
I just find this entire poll to be hilariously idiotic due to the number of people who have argued vociferously to be rid of the Bijuu when, they do not Rp with the general public, haven't played SL in a number of years, have never been apart of the Bijuu affairs, and now come out of the woodwork and are rallying for a change that literally has no effect on them. Like honestly, some of these votes need to be reconsidered and then made null.
Oh I know I'm going to grab some heat here for this, and for those of you who know I'm speaking of you in this post, crawl back into the corners of obscurity where you belong and please leave the things that so many people hold precious alone.
Not that I agree anyone should be returning to a hovel of obscurity, but I would not doubt that there are those on the other side of the coin (amend the rules) who fall in that same boat.
Honestly, It is really difficult to explain why this is just a stupid idea when people have no intention of listening to an opinion that does not cater to their ideals, but I’m gonna give it a shot.
First off, getting rid of Biju is unfair for those who have spent significant amounts of time fighting just to get a chance at earning a beast. This is a painstakingly long process that most of us have had to go through, and to throw it away is literally a slap in our faces...
And it's a slap in the face of the caring lot when those who want the biju around still cannot stand higher than the pedastal they put the beasts on. Some hunters and hosts alike have been guilty of being crap at being civil, but most importantly, at actually setting aside whatever to actually keep a RP moving. Without getting out of hand, it's painful having to actually moderate a discussion getting out of hand, or even contribute when, as you have said before, the two sides are adamant about not giving ground on absolutely anything.
In my case at least, I'm sick of the crap coming from those who want to keep the beasts, but are doing everything possible to make keeping them a living hell (for those trying to hunt them usually, but hunters have been pretty obnoxious too) for all who suffer the misfortune of wanting to see the conflict resolved.
The idea that anything will be fought over as hard as the tailed beasts when everything else can be copied into oblivion with custom techs to me is unimaginable.
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So, uh.... what now?
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So, uh.... what now?
Now, we all convene at round table and have some pie! :P
But seriously, I am certain that I am going to have the lock this soon. :oops:
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I for one find it quite ironic that the pool is almost 50% for both options.It just sums up the community which can never really agree on something and resolve it,especially when it comes to the beasts.
I think everyone should be allowed to do what they want at this point,be it amend the rules or void the bijuu.
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I for one find it quite ironic that the pool is almost 50% for both options.It just sums up the community which can never really agree on something and resolve it,especially when it comes to the beasts.
I think everyone should be allowed to do what they want at this point,be it amend the rules or void the bijuu.
Yep. Just do what you want and rp with who you want. It's so simple yet to complex for people to understand.
You are really gonna argue over what rule should be enforced? When no matter which one it is it will hurt someone in some fashion? Just folow one rule where everyone wins... Do what 'YOU' want.
In the end I don't really care what you all decide to do. I'll still log on and just kinda hang around. My days of hardcore rping are over. The game just lost its fun aspect about a year and a half ago. Really there is no point to any of it. No plots to actually be worthy of devoting time to, no leveling buzz these days, dp is worthless, and no challenges or worthy opponents left.
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So, uh.... what now?
Now, we all convene at round table and have some pie! :P
But seriously, I am certain that I am going to have the lock this soon. :oops:
First off, apologies to Kamui for reviving this topic, but there is just one thing I have to get settled.
Okay, so I took my own advice and went back through to count up commentary and hard votes. Not surprisingly I did not come up with 33 total votes (more like 22) and only came across a single vote that presumably was from someone without a forum account, and that is Gitsune.
You all can check my tally (since mine along the way differed from Kage's both times) but excluding Gitsune's vote, the comments for and against:
Amend: 12
Void: 11
Destroy rules: 1
Including Gitstune's:
Gitsune wants her voice heard. She votes to void/abolish all bijū as well.
It's still a tie of 12 v 12 with 1 for break the rules.
If Gitsune did not make a forum account at any point, then would her vote count for void the biju and break the hard tally, or would it maintain a tie in the commentary tally? Again, I apologize again for bringing this back up, but I don't feel like I personally have closure on the topic matter.
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I think her vote counts twice.
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I must not be able to count, because this is what I see...
Some confusion among the votes posts that I could tell which way they were voting.
The options were just too ambiguous, with respect to the responses when terminology to go one way or the other was not distinctly stated.
anyway...this is what I see with names of each person.
Amend Rules
1] Deathstroke
2] Kayenta
3] Riku
4] Rusaku
5] Dato abolish rules save inactivty? might change if village ownership activated.
6] Kage
7] Athos
8] Mei
9] Becquerel
10] Uchiha Madara
11] Camel
12] Ichirou
13] Masane
14]
15]
Void bijuu rules
1] Warren
2]
3]
Void Bijuu
1] Uetto
2] Eric
3] Murcielago
4] Razvan
5] ShinobiIceSlayer
6] Ratatosk
7] Koji
8] Raifudo
9] Hades
10] Court
11] Xiarawst
12] Gitsune
13] Ace
14]
15]
How did Keito vote
How did Genesis vote
How did Shadow vote - temporary ban was not an option
I don't get a tally of 15 for any option. Someone smarter than me is gonna have to figure it out.
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And this is the issue that I think is only going to piss more off. We go back on amending the rules, and eventually we are gonna end up in the same position we are now. If no one can play nicely about anything, then just abolish the bijuu and the rules..... Either way, I'm standing by my decision because I have only seen it as a headache being a Jinchuriki.
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I agree that it is a headache being a host. Something that I thought was going to be fun and cool for Yugito to have, her canon bijuu...
but just because I wish to never be a host again does not mean I think that people who want to do this should not get a chance. That would be just like if I decided the SSM should be banned and all sword groups because it went to shit for me.
But anyway...this vote thing...I can't even get a clear reading on who wanted what. So I figured to try and put my efforts to helping amend some rules. not to say...fuck you bijuu banners...but to try and help scrap together something that might work for those who want to play with them still.
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but just because I wish to never be a host again does not mean I think that people who want to do this should not get a chance. That would be just like if I decided the SSM should be banned and all sword groups because it went to shit for me.
What is bolded is just golden you really think you can have a change against 95% of these people unless
A: you write like a Pro
B: You are stupidly overpowered with enough writing skills
Using the profile wiki there is what the current Jinchuriki and what they have. Maybe you can spot the problem why people vote to void them.
Warren: Wood Release/Senju DNA, Sharingan + Rinnegan?
Gitsune: Senju Blood, Byakugan, Sage, Samehada, Gates
Eiko: Shikotsumyaku
Ichirou: Bygakugan + Hriashin + Tenseigan
Rusaku: Byakugan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Plasma Release [Custom] + Tensigan
Keitō: Uzumaki Blood, Wood Release, Sage
Madara: Sharingan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Shikotsumyaku, EMS, + Rinnegan
Athos: Sage, Uzumaki Blood, Gates, Sharingan, EMS
Shadow: Bakuton and Hirashin
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Void Bijuu
1]
2] Eric
3] Murcielago
4] Razvan
5] ShinobiIceSlayer
6] Ratatosk
7] Koji
8] Raifudo
9] Hades
10] Court
11] Xiarawst
12] Gitsune
13]
14]
15].
Number ONE, baby!!!
This whole voting thing is a mess though. Lets choose the best fighter from each side to duke it out and see who wins.
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I feel like those who want the beast void, should just not interact with hosts. Those that want the beast she do the same.
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I did vote... ;)
Void.
Feel free to speak with me personally as to the reason why if you want.
For now, I rather keep my thoughts to private conversations.
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but just because I wish to never be a host again does not mean I think that people who want to do this should not get a chance. That would be just like if I decided the SSM should be banned and all sword groups because it went to shit for me.
What is bolded is just golden you really think you can have a change against 95% of these people unless
A: you write like a Pro
B: You are stupidly overpowered with enough writing skills
Using the profile wiki there is what the current Jinchuriki and what they have. Maybe you can spot the problem why people vote to void them.
Warren: Wood Release/Senju DNA, Sharingan + Rinnegan?
Gitsune: Senju Blood, Byakugan, Sage, Samehada, Gates
Eiko: Shikotsumyaku
Ichirou: Bygakugan + Hriashin + Tenseigan
Rusaku: Byakugan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Plasma Release [Custom] + Tensigan
Keitō: Uzumaki Blood, Wood Release, Sage
Madara: Sharingan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Shikotsumyaku, EMS, + Rinnegan
Athos: Sage, Uzumaki Blood, Gates, Sharingan, EMS
Shadow: Bakuton and Hirashin
I think that I have zero chance against 99% of the site. To date on ANY of my characters I have NEVER won a zone fight.
let me tell you about my RP against people WHO DO NOT HAVE BEASTS!
Neala and Eric....no beast involved. But my Neala is not powerful enough, as a Nara master armorer to craft armor with enough skill to protect her from an automatic take over by Eric with his shadows, to make him have to put some extra effort into his attack to eventually overpower her, for just the two seconds it takes for her to release a lava attack upon him because he is a God. The compromise I had to accept to get out of RP deadlock was for her to take damage against her own jutsu...and yadda yaddda
NO BIJUU THERE.
Raihana can't seem to make a KT enhanced lightning attack that is fast enough to exceed the evasion tactics of people in Iwa who can move faster than 0.000027th of a second...which is how long it takes lightning to strike.
NO BIJUU INVOVLED THERE...as the one host did not even employ his beast in the evasion.
Moenkopi cannot save her own son dying in her arms, being just about the best medical ninja on the site, with powerful jutsu to cure injuries that would have required no more than first friggen aid.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
Umisoso can't manage to to hold onto the Nameless Scroll that was hidden away in her very own home from the SSM auto-entering and taking the damned thing away just because...too bad we are doing it, so there, nyah.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
Umioso again can't manage to have any of her moves against Yujo at the gates of Kirigakure replied too properly, jutsu being ignored and her being auto-hit and character controlled so badly that every single post he makes I have to point out the errors until finally I post her last move he ignored autohitting the man, not even an instant kill auto-hit, without the entire site falling out of the sky to call me a god modder and a poor excuse for a GM.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
The Suna Council can't even have a secret meeting protected by barrier seals against intrusion without some zealous enthusiast popping into the room anyway.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE EITHER
my point?
It's not the bijuu that is the problem and removing them is not going to stop this. And just a big FYI...all of these incidents mentioned are over and done with and big whoop de doo. I have not mentioned them now to start all that hoo ha over again. They are here only for the purpose of giving examples of RP issues that DO NOT INVOLVE BIJUU.
and here we go again, Ace, please be specific...void what? the rules or the bijuu?
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"Abolish the biju system altogether, removing official biju from roleplay," my bad ;)
Some words of advice, it's a path towards a possible solution.
Hindsight will of course reign supreme, and then members will say "I told you it didn't work." But people need to change.
A general statement made to everyone...
And people need to be less aggressive for changes to be made, may it be amending the rules. ;)
Simply bashing those wanting to remove the bijuu all together, or bashing those that do not vote the way as others do is thought of as productive? I think time and time again has proven that answer to be a "no."
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Thank you Ace
I edited your vote into the Void bijuu section.
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but just because I wish to never be a host again does not mean I think that people who want to do this should not get a chance. That would be just like if I decided the SSM should be banned and all sword groups because it went to shit for me.
What is bolded is just golden you really think you can have a change against 95% of these people unless
A: you write like a Pro
B: You are stupidly overpowered with enough writing skills
Using the profile wiki there is what the current Jinchuriki and what they have. Maybe you can spot the problem why people vote to void them.
Warren: Wood Release/Senju DNA, Sharingan + Rinnegan?
Gitsune: Senju Blood, Byakugan, Sage, Samehada, Gates
Eiko: Shikotsumyaku
Ichirou: Bygakugan + Hriashin + Tenseigan
Rusaku: Byakugan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Plasma Release [Custom] + Tensigan
Keitō: Uzumaki Blood, Wood Release, Sage
Madara: Sharingan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Shikotsumyaku, EMS, + Rinnegan
Athos: Sage, Uzumaki Blood, Gates, Sharingan, EMS
Shadow: Bakuton and Hirashin
I think that I have zero chance against 99% of the site. To date on ANY of my characters I have NEVER won a zone fight.
let me tell you about my RP against people WHO DO NOT HAVE BEASTS!
Neala and Eric....no beast involved. But my Neala is not powerful enough, as a Nara master armorer to craft armor with enough skill to protect her from an automatic take over by Eric with his shadows, to make him have to put some extra effort into his attack to eventually overpower her, for just the two seconds it takes for her to release a lava attack upon him because he is a God. The compromise I had to accept to get out of RP deadlock was for her to take damage against her own jutsu...and yadda yaddda
NO BIJUU THERE.
Raihana can't seem to make a KT enhanced lightning attack that is fast enough to exceed the evasion tactics of people in Iwa who can move faster than 0.000027th of a second...which is how long it takes lightning to strike.
NO BIJUU INVOVLED THERE...as the one host did not even employ his beast in the evasion.
Moenkopi cannot save her own son dying in her arms, being just about the best medical ninja on the site, with powerful jutsu to cure injuries that would have required no more than first friggen aid.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
Umisoso can't manage to to hold onto the Nameless Scroll that was hidden away in her very own home from the SSM auto-entering and taking the damned thing away just because...too bad we are doing it, so there, nyah.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
Umioso again can't manage to have any of her moves against Yujo at the gates of Kirigakure replied too properly, jutsu being ignored and her being auto-hit and character controlled so badly that every single post he makes I have to point out the errors until finally I post her last move he ignored autohitting the man, not even an instant kill auto-hit, without the entire site falling out of the sky to call me a god modder and a poor excuse for a GM.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE.
The Suna Council can't even have a secret meeting protected by barrier seals against intrusion without some zealous enthusiast popping into the room anyway.
NO BIJUU INVOLVED THERE EITHER
my point?
It's not the bijuu that is the problem and removing them is not going to stop this. And just a big FYI...all of these incidents mentioned are over and done with and big whoop de doo. I have not mentioned them now to start all that hoo ha over again. They are here only for the purpose of giving examples of RP issues that DO NOT INVOLVE BIJUU.
and here we go again, Ace, please be specific...void what? the rules or the bijuu?
I'm glad we are on the same page about people being the issue, and not the beasts.
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And yet, this will get SL nowhere. ;)
Just as previous polls were done about varrying issues, I have no doubt that the verdict of this poll will not be respected by some, causing for no progress to be made.
Do prove me wrong, but time and time again, I see the same nonsense.
I can be a bit more blunt...
Congress has low approval ratings, sometimes in the single digits, yet incumbents are elected by an overwhelming majority. One of the primary reasons being, "Well, it's not *my* Senator or Congressman, it's not I who is voting 'wrong, it’s your Congressman and it is you!"
Hate to break it to you all, but it IS *you*. All are playing some role in hindering the progress of of this game now.
I direct this to each and every member, regardless of abilities, status, whatever (yes, this includes myself).
Get off your high horse, and fix it. Yes, it is as easy as it sounds. Why? Because you created it. Instead of excuses, provide solutions and work towards achieving them. If it doesn't work, choose a different path.
We are home to bright minds and incredible people, act like it now. ;)
Yes, as I stated as well...
It is the people.
But does it seem like the "people" are able to handle the Bijuu (?), is the question being asked by a lot. =)
So, if you cannot "control" the people, well...what can you control? ;)
Being practical should be the goal.
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So, if Ace's vote now breaks the tie, then bijuu are void? Or did I count wrong?
Warren: Wood Release/Senju DNA, Sharingan + Rinnegan?
Gitsune: Senju Blood, Byakugan, Sage, Samehada, Gates
Eiko: Shikotsumyaku
Ichirou: Bygakugan + Hriashin + Tenseigan
Rusaku: Byakugan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Plasma Release [Custom] + Tensigan
Keitō: Uzumaki Blood, Wood Release, Sage
Madara: Sharingan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Shikotsumyaku, EMS, + Rinnegan
Athos: Sage, Uzumaki Blood, Gates, Sharingan, EMS
Shadow: Bakuton and Hirashin, Shikotsumyaku
Hey, I have the least in this picture! Bad enough, I feel people really have more than what the wikia says.
But, in retrospect, you can list problems with people that had no bijuu, but there's an issue with the bijuu (or the people that DON'T have a bijuu -- aka challengers). I mean... there's an issue with or without... there will always be an issue with or without. Some of the people you mentioned had Bijuu, too... so... yeah.
I would opt for something like Dart mentioned. If you really want to cater to an entire member-base, you place each bijuu into a respective village -- that way it promotes and encourages RP within a village, and if someone really wanted to RP with the bijuu, they just have to join the village. I mean, sounds simple and easy enough to me.
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So, if Ace's vote now breaks the tie, then bijuu are void? Or did I count wrong?
Warren: Wood Release/Senju DNA, Sharingan + Rinnegan?
Gitsune: Senju Blood, Byakugan, Sage, Samehada, Gates
Eiko: Shikotsumyaku
Ichirou: Bygakugan + Hriashin + Tenseigan
Rusaku: Byakugan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Plasma Release [Custom] + Tensigan
Keitō: Uzumaki Blood, Wood Release, Sage
Madara: Sharingan, Wood Release/Senju DNA, Shikotsumyaku, EMS, + Rinnegan
Athos: Sage, Uzumaki Blood, Gates, Sharingan, EMS
Shadow: Bakuton and Hirashin, Shikotsumyaku
Hey, I have the least in this picture! Bad enough, I feel people really have more than what the wikia says.
But, in retrospect, you can list problems with people that had no bijuu, but there's an issue with the bijuu (or the people that DON'T have a bijuu -- aka challengers). I mean... there's an issue with or without... there will always be an issue with or without. Some of the people you mentioned had Bijuu, too... so... yeah.
Didn't realize that we were voting again, bit weird. :O
I thought we were just making our previous votes known.
If that is not the case, please remove my most recent vote.
As others have stated, role play as you please.
If you do not like the Bijuu, simply do not role play with those who wish to do so and vice versa.
Is it really not as simply as that?
I will defend those wanting the system to remain in that they should be able to role play with Bijuu if they so wish.
If you do not see eye to eye, you do *not* have to participate with those who wish to.
I guess I am the only one confused with this entire topic now and the purpose.
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They were just trying to count the previous votes, not make a new one, yes, so you weren't confused.
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What Warren said. Did not mean to confuse.
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Shadow is for amending the rules.
Or at least the hosts...
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I think the problem with Eiko, and why she was listed, is that she writes like a pro. Please stop doing a good job in the future. I seriously don't think he meant a Kaguya with the Shikotsumyaku was OP.
And yes. no new voting. just trying to count the votes with some accuracy. When I said I added your name, Ace, that was done because it was not on the list I collected by reading each and every post. Kage did the same thing. We both come up with a different count.
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... And just a big FYI...all of these incidents mentioned are over and done with and big whoop de doo. I have not mentioned them now to start all that hoo ha over again. They are here only for the purpose of giving examples of RP issues that DO NOT INVOLVE BIJUU...
Magic phrase. Most of those did not even warrant a topic here on the forum, much less the dirty laundry to be aired (in fact, I think Eric v Neala is the only one of those that made it to the forum). Everybody made up and got over it without having to make a huge fuss about it (again, with one, at worst 2 exceptions) and even if there was a fuss, voiding the other person simply would have nipped it in the bud.
The tailed beasts, however, took away the ability to just void whatever you didn't like out of existence for the RP becuase they were official (so only one host per beasts, no separate continuums could be accepted).
I've had my own fair share of RP issues not involving tailed beasts, but with the exception of two, maybe 3, I don't think I've had to use the forum or a relatively public outlet to come to a solution or resolution.
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how wonderful for you eric
however, these issue exist everywhere and do not revolve around the bijuu. And if a person feels the need to discuss it on the forum, then there is enough to warrant the discussion.
as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl, neither does he determine what topics need to be discussed by other people or determine such topics as dirty laundry.
additionally, it is of no consequence if such topics come to the forum or they do not. that they cause an unresolved situation among those who are engaged very much fits the example of how non-bijuu related rp issues exist and cause problems all the time on Sl lending great credence to my postulate that even without the bijuu, the player behaviors will still cause strife.
IT is the same thing regardless of what significance you place upon those RP issues or how little you value their importance to those who have participated in them.
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as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl,
When I started, there wasn't really an 'official' RP but someone had to get enough people on board to get what is now known as 'official' RP. So something happened that someone now indirectly dictated how RPing should be.
My example earlier are just the current Biju with one or two being fair. The rest they already have enough power and giving them a Biju is adding more power. Not counting the whole ten-tails thing, the Jinjuriki of the manga were nothing super special.
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as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl,
When I started, there wasn't really an 'official' RP but someone had to get enough people on board to get what is now known as 'official' RP. So something happened that someone now indirectly dictated how RPing should be.
My example earlier are just the current Biju with one or two being fair. The rest they already have enough power and giving them a Biju is adding more power. Not counting the whole ten-tails thing, the Jinjuriki of the manga were nothing super special.
To use the quote of Kay more easily without the hassle of this phone......
However Kay every one person does dictate the outcome of their own rp. I think that's the main thing people are missing.
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how wonderful for you eric
however, these issue exist everywhere and do not revolve around the bijuu. And if a person feels the need to discuss it on the forum, then there is enough to warrant the discussion.
as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl, neither does he determine what topics need to be discussed by other people or determine such topics as dirty laundry.
additionally, it is of no consequence if such topics come to the forum or they do not. that they cause an unresolved situation among those who are engaged very much fits the example of how non-bijuu related rp issues exist and cause problems all the time on Sl lending great credence to my postulate that even without the bijuu, the player behaviors will still cause strife.
IT is the same thing regardless of what significance you place upon those RP issues or how little you value their importance to those who have participated in them.
If someone feels the need, they totally welcome to discuss it on the forum. With exceptions here and there though, you don't see alot of these other issues being discussed here. You can barely have a RP-based argument on this forum without a tailed beast somehow creeping into it nowadays. Make no mistake, I am aware that there have been issues in other areas of RP that continue to prevail, but they are not harped on as much as the biju-related ones. Their significance or insignificance to a single party is irrevelent to the fact that biju-related topics dominate the hostile set of discussions on this forum.
Hostile discussions off of this forum are of my concern only when I am involved or asked to give my input. Otherwise, I've got my own RP and the forum to be concerned about, and it can be dealt with on a case by case basis.
But there are 9 tailed beasts (maybe 18 in the distant future), and only one individual at a time can officially have each beast. There is no diverging of the story-lines without community input, no voiding of the beasts, or even maintaining of the beasts without community input. If two people refuse to work out their problems with the beasts, there is little option but to bring it to the public attention, which 1/2 of the time makes the whole thing worse on scale.
RP does not work if the RPers cannot compromise or find a common path to move forward on. with tailed beasts, participants are largely forced to compromise or bust. We have all seen the fruits of that tree. >_>
Getting rid of the biju was never meant to get rid of all strife. But it was supposed to be a step in the direction of greatly reducing it, or at least greatly reducing the public stamp.
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Without digging through pages and pages of material can somebody briefly and concisely tell me what removing the bijuu will do? The bijuu themselves aren't the problem i don't believe.
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Without digging through pages and pages of material can somebody briefly and concisely tell me what removing the bijuu will do? The bijuu themselves aren't the problem i don't believe.
... Getting rid of the biju was never meant to get rid of all strife. But it was supposed to be a step in the direction of greatly reducing it, or at least greatly reducing the public stamp.
That's the really short and to the point version. If you want a more long winded response I can a few up for you.
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Those who want to void them I believe are now at the liberty to do so if they so desire, while those who still wish to continue playing with them are free to keep doing so too, the latter just can't try force anyone to acknowledge them and their beasts anymore if they don't want to. There will be no more nonsensical hunting rules either, so if a voider and non-voider clash, or other kind of related trouble arises, its up to the involved parties to settle between themselves.
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Take my vote out of the count if you're still doing that.
I'll still post in topics if I feel like and so on, but for the most part I'm not going to spend my time reworking the rules from here on. Basically I'm quitting the bijuu 'game'. Still even though I'm no longer going to indulge myself with such I'm not going to be like 'BAN DEM' and so on. Do what you want. :P
Have fun.
I'm out.
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So the end result is no consensus. Everyone is just going to do what they want and not talk about it anymore and good luck when a problem arises, just like always?
12+ pages of what was the point of this?
So will the hosts who wanted to void the bijuu be getting rid of them now? Turning them over to their Kage...who may or may not want to void them? Shall they be set free? Gifted to people as a cursed item? Grapple in the realm over who calls dibs first? I am just shaking my head here...
Better to just leave things as they were than walk down this path...
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Up to them really. Give it to the kage or someone else who wants it, or even a challenger from prior to this that they don't feel like fighting anymore. Simple really, and not like its gonna affect the ex-host-to-be any since they'll be voiding its existence.
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Those who want to void them I believe are now at the liberty to do so if they so desire, while those who still wish to continue playing with them are free to keep doing so too, the latter just can't try force anyone to acknowledge them and their beasts anymore if they don't want to. There will be no more nonsensical hunting rules either, so if a voider and non-voider clash, or other kind of related trouble arises, its up to the involved parties to settle between themselves.
Um, the no biju rules but keep the biju party lost the vote. Badly. You can't just up and say that there will be no hunting rules at all, especially considering the schism of the biju cult is so evenly divided. Those who voted to keep the biju had every intention on amending the rules, not abolishing them. Only if the parties involved do nothing would there no longer be any hunting rules, nonsensical or otherwise.
So the end result is no consensus. Everyone is just going to do what they want and not talk about it anymore and good luck when a problem arises, just like always?
12+ pages of what was the point of this...
The point of it was, in part, to find out where everyone's head was at. Secondly, and more importantly, the abject rejection of a tie-breaker of sorts is leading this towards a "no consensus", not the fact that the discussion and poll were created. Few seem interested in breaking the tie, and even fewer interested in the fact that the presence of a tie (by the hard poll) and the presence of a non-forum account vote (by commentary) should for all intents and purposes have been considered a breaker of the tie in favor of ban the biju.
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It was been stated banning the biju will be a step in the right direction of restoring more 'peaceful' RPing, though there will be always something to complain about 9/10 of complaints were Biju battle related.
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Going separate ways like this defeats the purpose of the poll in the first place.
If anything though, anybody with a Tailed Beast that runs into somebody who doesn't believe in them could just say that their chakra reserves are much larger than most people's. Though voiding the Tailed Beasts also means voiding the Gedo Mazo. But would that prevent somebody from claiming their own Shinju? I would like to make another topic about this, probably in this section.
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Actually Eric...getting rid of the rules except for activity requirements was how the discussion was going before you made this flawed poll. There should never have been 3 choices...as #1 and #2 are the same thing. The actual amendments would have been discussed at a later date. Who knows what the 'amender' set were even voting for without those changes being explicitly written anyway? Change...improvement. And as per the discussion thread over there someplace, the change/improvement the 'get rid of the rules' set wished to see did not include getting rid of the activity rule; just another amendment, albeit a radical one.
And it is laughable now since there is this HUGE schism, thank you very much for making it official, that you would even suggest that those who voted to abolish the rules will have to either amend rules or void the bijuu because their side lost in such a big big way. If people are going to go out and do what they want, and void each other...I am sure that the 'get rid of rules but keep bijuu' set can act like everyone else is now sanctioned to do.
And Kage? I feel the Gedo Mazo has no place in this discussion. To void bijuu, should that finally be the way 'everyone' goes, is not to say they never existed but now are not just sealed away in some demon realm no one can ever reach. Nor is it to say that the whole site needs to act like bijuu never were here, just because potentially now they would be gone. That is a huge history re-write and I am just not gonna do a memory wipe. So sorry.
Without the Gedo Mazo, you got no Zetsu, you got no Mayfly...are people really gonna throw those away?
Kayenta shall not suddenly edit her history in helping Kyu to summon the thing and seal it to him.
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Actually Eric...getting rid of the rules except for activity requirements was how the discussion was going before you made this flawed poll...
Let me focus in right here.
Flawed poll? Flawed poll? Amend the biju rules or get rid of the rules are not the same thing, and were made separate options for a reason.
1) Amend the rules. The major problems have been between interpretation of the rules and the conflict with RP ideologies. Naturally then, the two major calls for amendment have been to radically alter the rules by elaboration (granting more detail to lessen ambiguity) or by reduction (getting rid of many of the rules, leaving only the bare minimum, the rest being covered by various RP standards). The two have not been split apart because both seek to amend the rules rather than get rid of them entirely.
2)Abolish the biju rules entirely. This means that there are no over-arching rules governing the tailed beasts other than RP standards, which can vary from place to place, host to host. The tailed beasts are not public commodities which need overarching regulation and control under this option. They are, in essence, claimed items that can be taken and lost in a similar fashion (think canon claimed items)...
Amend the rules, keep official biju. Abolish the rules, make biju "unofficial" and you pretty much fight the RP standards of the day for the beast. Those are two completely and utterly different approaches to keeping the tailed beasts. That's like saying amend the constitution and go all Wild West Style are the same things in a nutshell when they are not even close.
I made this discussion as a direct response to that "other" thread where I called Warren out on shenanigans with his RP requirements for challengers and was met with "well, the rules are stupid" and "you idiot, Warren is doing nothing wrong making his beast exponentially harder than all the others to even get a shot at!".
That thread where it became increasingly clear that enforcement of a fair system was impossible without harsher and more rigid enforcement, with punishments befitting the bill and blind to the RP medals, something the SL population has resisted since the dawn of time. There was no was no way of balancing the challenger and the challenged in terms of "fairness" in a system where it is up to community organizers to rally a lynch mob, go after one guy, be told to put down the torches and forks, and wait for some system to do its magic.
I do not know where everyone else was going, but getting rid of the rules just because one guy gets accused of breaking them, after many others have been hounded and at times all but lynched for being accused of breaking the same set of rules was definitely not the direction I was going. Not the direction I am even now going.
I have never if ever been for burning Joann and extraditing Frollo, even if both could be accused of the same crime. If the rules are to be changed just because a few people get stubbed toes at the stop sign, then there is no point at all to having any rules. And if there are not going to be rules, then it's Wild West, the biju are claimed items, and we can all have a nice day, cause anytime someone wants to complain that they are not getting a fair shot, or that so-and-so has gone inactive, we can just say, "welp, the way of the claims world". Turning the tailed beasts into an international Seven Ninja Swordsman of the Mist (swords) is a different cry from amend the rules that try to make it fair for challenger and challenged.
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I honestly have no idea what still makes you think you can try force anybody to follow what you say, much less the whole RPer base.
Similarly amusing is how people expected there was going to be any kind of an unanimous consensus regardless of the poll result to begin with.
Amending the rules would have made them sound less stupid on paper, but there'd still have been people who try abuse them to harass hosts to all hell or just not following them at all, along with the same few who want nothing to do with the whole circus. So really, nothing would change in the end.
Removing the rules would have removed the ability of would be challengers to harass the hosts with forum accusations of rule breaks et cetera, up until the point someone would have started clamoring 'no this is stupid we need rules again'. In short, a little while of freedom, up until the same few people on their high horses started raving about their self-proclaimed authority again, and we'd be back where we started.
Voiding the bijuu would have done the opposite and removed the ability of hosts to try force anyone to acknowledge anything they do regarding the beasts, and that's it really. Say for example some village unanimously decided to void, and a host who doesn't visits later? If said host wants to play with someone in there, the beast can't be used for anything during the stay. Then after they leave, they're free to do whatever the hell they want again. Or if a host tried to attack? Sure, but any powers stemming from the beast would be effectively null.
Or if that sounded too complex, I'll put it simpler. If you want to void the beasts, you can. If you don't want to void them, you don't have to. If a host tries to get up your face, you can report them for harassment. If you try get up the face of a host/non-voider with "no you can't do that they don't exist", they can report you for harassment.
Edit: This thread should also be locked, there's really no point to all this anymore.
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I honestly have no idea what still makes you think you can try force anybody to follow what you say, much less the whole RPer base.
Similarly amusing is how people expected there was going to be any kind of an unanimous consensus regardless of the poll result to begin with.
Amending the rules would have made them sound less stupid on paper, but there'd still have been people who try abuse them to harass hosts to all hell or just not following them at all, along with the same few who want nothing to do with the whole circus. So really, nothing would change in the end.
Removing the rules would have removed the ability of would be challengers to harass the hosts with forum accusations of rule breaks et cetera, up until the point someone would have started clamoring 'no this is stupid we need rules again'. In short, a little while of freedom, up until the same few people on their high horses started raving about their self-proclaimed authority again, and we'd be back where we started.
Voiding the bijuu would have done the opposite and removed the ability of hosts to try force anyone to acknowledge anything they do regarding the beasts, and that's it really. Say for example some village unanimously decided to void, and a host who doesn't visits later? If said host wants to play with someone in there, the beast can't be used for anything during the stay. Then after they leave, they're free to do whatever the hell they want again. Or if a host tried to attack? Sure, but any powers stemming from the beast would be effectively null.
Or if that sounded too complex, I'll put it simpler. If you want to void the beasts, you can. If you don't want to void them, you don't have to. If a host tries to get up your face, you can report them for harassment. If you try get up the face of a host/non-voider with "no you can't do that they don't exist", they can report you for harassment.
Edit: This thread should also be locked, there's really no point to all this anymore.
At this point Warren, I'm inclined to beleive that this is to be how things will end up. Considering the almost poetic results of the post, and how they represent how divided our community really is, I truly doubt any rulings can be made that make everyone happy. Such is life.
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I honestly have no idea what still makes you think you can try force anybody to follow what you say, much less the whole RPer base...
Pretty funny coming from the guy who GM'd a zombie attack on Konoha and took offense when some took your "GM rules or else" approach the wrong way.
...Similarly amusing is how people expected there was going to be any kind of an unanimous consensus regardless of the poll result to begin with...
I don't think anyone expected an unanimous decision. Just a decision, even if by one vote. The tie is by the hard vote, and yet, when a tiebreaker of the hard vote by a single non-forum vote is not in the favor of the amend the rules, you get practically complete and utter ignoring of it.
I should not be surprised though, the same may have well would have happened had it been the other way around.
...Removing the rules would have removed the ability of would be challengers to harass the hosts with forum accusations of rule breaks et cetera, up until the point someone would have started clamoring 'no this is stupid we need rules again'. In short, a little while of freedom, up until the same few people on their high horses started raving about their self-proclaimed authority again, and we'd be back where we started...
The self-proclaimed authority to break the rules that all hosts and hunters agreed to follow (implicitly or explicitly) is what started this mess. Don't act like the hunters were the bad guys and the hosts were the good guys, because that's a blatant zebra stripe painting of a grey issue.
...Voiding the bijuu would have done the opposite and removed the ability of hosts to try force anyone to acknowledge anything they do regarding the beasts, and that's it really. Say for example some village unanimously decided to void, and a host who doesn't visits later? If said host wants to play with someone in there, the beast can't be used for anything during the stay. Then after they leave, they're free to do whatever the hell they want again. Or if a host tried to attack? Sure, but any powers stemming from the beast would be effectively null...
I think you are kind of confused about what this poll was trying to do. If the void the biju option would have been chosen, all tailed beasts would have been effectively voided. Much like people who claim to be THE six paths would no longer be taken seriously, people still RPing with tailed beasts would not be taken too seriously. Any claims of beast powers on any "official" level would be null and void, and any disagreement regarding them considered irrelevant.
Sure, maybe on the local level there would be continued usage of the beasts for a time, but local issues have rarely made it to the forum, and with good reason. It's the not so local issues with the beasts that plagued this forum (and the site) time and time again.
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I'm not even surprised Rusaku gets it, while you're still blind as a bat and keep turning to the same old insult at every turn. Be careful you don't drown in all that salt man.
Yeah this thing should definitely be locked.