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Amend (in any shape or form) the biju rules

15 (45.5%)

Abolish the biju rules entirely

3 (9.1%)

Abolish the biju system altogether, removing official biju from roleplay

15 (45.5%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: September 23, 2015, 04:03:09 PM

[Ratatosk]

as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl,

When I started, there wasn't really an 'official' RP but someone had to get enough people on board to get what is now known as 'official' RP. So something happened that someone now indirectly dictated how RPing should be.

My example earlier are just the current Biju with one or two being fair. The rest they already have enough power and giving them a Biju is adding more power. Not counting the whole ten-tails thing, the Jinjuriki of the manga were nothing super special.

[UettoSenju]

as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl,

When I started, there wasn't really an 'official' RP but someone had to get enough people on board to get what is now known as 'official' RP. So something happened that someone now indirectly dictated how RPing should be.

My example earlier are just the current Biju with one or two being fair. The rest they already have enough power and giving them a Biju is adding more power. Not counting the whole ten-tails thing, the Jinjuriki of the manga were nothing super special.

To use the quote of Kay more easily without the hassle of this phone......

However Kay every one person does dictate the outcome of their own rp. I think that's the main thing people are missing.

[Eric]

how wonderful for you eric

however, these issue exist everywhere and do not revolve around the bijuu. And if a person feels the need to discuss it on the forum, then there is enough to warrant the discussion.

as one person does not get to determine how rp is run on Sl, neither does he determine what topics need to be discussed by other people or determine such topics as dirty laundry.

additionally, it is of no consequence if such topics come to the forum or they do not. that they cause an unresolved situation among those who are engaged very much fits the example of how non-bijuu related rp issues exist and cause problems all the time on Sl lending great credence to my postulate that even without the bijuu, the player behaviors will still cause strife.

IT is the same thing regardless of what significance you place upon those RP issues or how little you value their importance to those who have participated in them.

If someone feels the need, they totally welcome to discuss it on the forum. With exceptions here and there though, you don't see alot of these other issues being discussed here. You can barely have a RP-based argument on this forum without a tailed beast somehow creeping into it nowadays. Make no mistake, I am aware that there have been issues in other areas of RP that continue to prevail, but they are not harped on as much as the biju-related ones. Their significance or insignificance to a single party is irrevelent to the fact that biju-related topics dominate the hostile set of discussions on this forum.

Hostile discussions off of this forum are of my concern only when I am involved or asked to give my input. Otherwise, I've got my own RP and the forum to be concerned about, and it can be dealt with on a case by case basis.

But there are 9 tailed beasts (maybe 18 in the distant future), and only one individual at a time can officially have each beast. There is no diverging of the story-lines without community input, no voiding of the beasts, or even maintaining of the beasts without community input. If two people refuse to work out their problems with the beasts, there is little option but to bring it to the public attention, which 1/2 of the time makes the whole thing worse on scale.

RP does not work if the RPers cannot compromise or find a common path to move forward on. with tailed beasts, participants are largely forced to compromise or bust. We have all seen the fruits of that tree. >_>

Getting rid of the biju was never meant to get rid of all strife. But it was supposed to be a step in the direction of greatly reducing it, or at least greatly reducing the public stamp.

[Zenaku]

Without digging through pages and pages of material can somebody briefly and concisely tell me what removing the bijuu will do? The bijuu themselves aren't the problem i don't believe.

[Eric]

Without digging through pages and pages of material can somebody briefly and concisely tell me what removing the bijuu will do? The bijuu themselves aren't the problem i don't believe.

... Getting rid of the biju was never meant to get rid of all strife. But it was supposed to be a step in the direction of greatly reducing it, or at least greatly reducing the public stamp.

That's the really short and to the point version. If you want a more long winded response I can a few up for you.

[Warren]

Those who want to void them I believe are now at the liberty to do so if they so desire, while those who still wish to continue playing with them are free to keep doing so too, the latter just can't try force anyone to acknowledge them and their beasts anymore if they don't want to. There will be no more nonsensical hunting rules either, so if a voider and non-voider clash, or other kind of related trouble arises, its up to the involved parties to settle between themselves.

[Ѕhadow]

Take my vote out of the count if you're still doing that.

I'll still post in topics if I feel like and so on, but for the most part I'm not going to spend my time reworking the rules from here on. Basically I'm quitting the bijuu 'game'. Still even though I'm no longer going to indulge myself with such I'm not going to be like 'BAN DEM' and so on. Do what you want.

Have fun.

I'm out.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

So the end result is no consensus. Everyone is just going to do what they want and not talk about it anymore and good luck when a problem arises, just like always?
 
12+ pages of what was the point of this?

So will the hosts who wanted to void the bijuu be getting rid of them now? Turning them over to their Kage...who may or may not want to void them? Shall they be set free? Gifted to people as a cursed item? Grapple in the realm over who calls dibs first? I am just shaking my head here...

Better to just leave things as they were than walk down this path...

[Warren]

Up to them really. Give it to the kage or someone else who wants it, or even a challenger from prior to this that they don't feel like fighting anymore. Simple really, and not like its gonna affect the ex-host-to-be any since they'll be voiding its existence.

[Eric]

Those who want to void them I believe are now at the liberty to do so if they so desire, while those who still wish to continue playing with them are free to keep doing so too, the latter just can't try force anyone to acknowledge them and their beasts anymore if they don't want to. There will be no more nonsensical hunting rules either, so if a voider and non-voider clash, or other kind of related trouble arises, its up to the involved parties to settle between themselves.

Um, the no biju rules but keep the biju party lost the vote. Badly. You can't just up and say that there will be no hunting rules at all, especially considering the schism of the biju cult is so evenly divided. Those who voted to keep the biju had every intention on amending the rules, not abolishing them. Only if the parties involved do nothing would there no longer be any hunting rules, nonsensical or otherwise.

So the end result is no consensus. Everyone is just going to do what they want and not talk about it anymore and good luck when a problem arises, just like always?
 
12+ pages of what was the point of this...

The point of it was, in part, to find out where everyone's head was at. Secondly, and more importantly, the abject rejection of a tie-breaker of sorts is leading this towards a "no consensus", not the fact that the discussion and poll were created. Few seem interested in breaking the tie, and even fewer interested in the fact that the presence of a tie (by the hard poll) and the presence of a non-forum account vote (by commentary) should for all intents and purposes have been considered a breaker of the tie in favor of ban the biju.

[Ratatosk]

It was been stated banning the biju will be a step in the right direction of restoring more 'peaceful' RPing, though there will be always something to complain about 9/10 of complaints were Biju battle related.

[Kage]

Going separate ways like this defeats the purpose of the poll in the first place.

If anything though, anybody with a Tailed Beast that runs into somebody who doesn't believe in them could just say that their chakra reserves are much larger than most people's. Though voiding the Tailed Beasts also means voiding the Gedo Mazo. But would that prevent somebody from claiming their own Shinju? I would like to make another topic about this, probably in this section.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Actually Eric...getting rid of the rules except for activity requirements was how the discussion was going before you made this flawed poll. There should never have been 3 choices...as #1 and #2 are the same thing. The actual amendments would have been discussed at a later date. Who knows what the 'amender' set were even voting for without those changes being explicitly written anyway? Change...improvement. And as per the discussion thread over there someplace, the change/improvement the 'get rid of the rules' set wished to see did not include getting rid of the activity rule; just another amendment, albeit a radical one.

And it is laughable now since there is this HUGE schism, thank you very much for making it official, that you would even suggest that those who voted to abolish the rules will have to either amend rules or void the bijuu because their side lost in such a big big way. If people are going to go out and do what they want, and void each other...I am sure that the 'get rid of rules but keep bijuu' set can act like everyone else is now sanctioned to do.

And Kage? I feel the Gedo Mazo has no place in this discussion. To void bijuu, should that finally be the way 'everyone' goes, is not to say they never existed but now are not just sealed away in some demon realm no one can ever reach. Nor is it to say that the whole site needs to act like bijuu never were here, just because potentially now they would be gone. That is a huge history re-write and I am just not gonna do a memory wipe. So sorry.

Without the Gedo Mazo, you got no Zetsu, you got no Mayfly...are people really gonna throw those away?

Kayenta shall not suddenly edit her history in helping Kyu to summon the thing and seal it to him.

[Eric]

Actually Eric...getting rid of the rules except for activity requirements was how the discussion was going before you made this flawed poll...

Let me focus in right here.

Flawed poll? Flawed poll? Amend the biju rules or get rid of the rules are not the same thing, and were made separate options for a reason.

1) Amend the rules. The major problems have been between interpretation of the rules and the conflict with RP ideologies. Naturally then, the two major calls for amendment have been to radically alter the rules by elaboration (granting more detail to lessen ambiguity) or by reduction (getting rid of many of the rules, leaving only the bare minimum, the rest being covered by various RP standards). The two have not been split apart because both seek to amend the rules rather than get rid of them entirely.

2)Abolish the biju rules entirely. This means that there are no over-arching rules governing the tailed beasts other than RP standards, which can vary from place to place, host to host. The tailed beasts are not public commodities which need overarching regulation and control under this option. They are, in essence, claimed items that can be taken and lost in a similar fashion (think canon claimed items)...

Amend the rules, keep official biju. Abolish the rules, make biju "unofficial" and you pretty much fight the RP standards of the day for the beast. Those are two completely and utterly different approaches to keeping the tailed beasts. That's like saying amend the constitution and go all Wild West Style are the same things in a nutshell when they are not even close.

I made this discussion as a direct response to that "other" thread where I called Warren out on shenanigans with his RP requirements for challengers and was met with "well, the rules are stupid" and "you idiot, Warren is doing nothing wrong making his beast exponentially harder than all the others to even get a shot at!".

That thread where it became increasingly clear that enforcement of a fair system was impossible without harsher and more rigid enforcement, with punishments befitting the bill and blind to the RP medals, something the SL population has resisted since the dawn of time. There was no was no way of balancing the challenger and the challenged in terms of "fairness" in a system where it is up to community organizers to rally a lynch mob, go after one guy, be told to put down the torches and forks, and wait for some system to do its magic.

I do not know where everyone else was going, but getting rid of the rules just because one guy gets accused of breaking them, after many others have been hounded and at times all but lynched for being accused of breaking the same set of rules was definitely not the direction I was going. Not the direction I am even now going.

I have never if ever been for burning Joann and extraditing Frollo, even if both could be accused of the same crime. If the rules are to be changed just because a few people get stubbed toes at the stop sign, then there is no point at all to having any rules. And if there are not going to be rules, then it's Wild West, the biju are claimed items, and we can all have a nice day, cause anytime someone wants to complain that they are not getting a fair shot, or that so-and-so has gone inactive, we can just say, "welp, the way of the claims world". Turning the tailed beasts into an international Seven Ninja Swordsman of the Mist (swords) is a different cry from amend the rules that try to make it fair for challenger and challenged.

[Warren]

I honestly have no idea what still makes you think you can try force anybody to follow what you say, much less the whole RPer base.

Similarly amusing is how people expected there was going to be any kind of an unanimous consensus regardless of the poll result to begin with.

Amending the rules would have made them sound less stupid on paper, but there'd still have been people who try abuse them to harass hosts to all hell or just not following them at all, along with the same few who want nothing to do with the whole circus. So really, nothing would change in the end.

Removing the rules would have removed the ability of would be challengers to harass the hosts with forum accusations of rule breaks et cetera, up until the point someone would have started clamoring 'no this is stupid we need rules again'. In short, a little while of freedom, up until the same few people on their high horses started raving about their self-proclaimed authority again, and we'd be back where we started.

Voiding the bijuu would have done the opposite and removed the ability of hosts to try force anyone to acknowledge anything they do regarding the beasts, and that's it really. Say for example some village unanimously decided to void, and a host who doesn't visits later? If said host wants to play with someone in there, the beast can't be used for anything during the stay. Then after they leave, they're free to do whatever the hell they want again. Or if a host tried to attack? Sure, but any powers stemming from the beast would be effectively null.

Or if that sounded too complex, I'll put it simpler. If you want to void the beasts, you can. If you don't want to void them, you don't have to. If a host tries to get up your face, you can report them for harassment. If you try get up the face of a host/non-voider with "no you can't do that they don't exist", they can report you for harassment.

Edit: This thread should also be locked, there's really no point to all this anymore.