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Author Topic: Now Damage  (Read 12093 times)

Bocchiere

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2014, 10:52:30 PM »

And if I thought someone was going to do that I wouldn't accept them as a judge.

There's no "We'll see if I like what he says or not." Either you're going to accept the decision or you aren't.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 10:55:53 PM by bocchiere »
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Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2014, 10:55:11 PM »

*Rubs temples* Jesus, sometimes I feel like I'm going to have an anurism when it comes to certain people on this site.

I am going to accept his freakin response. God damn.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2014, 10:56:01 PM »

Andddddd settled. Lock, yes?
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Sabumaru

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2014, 10:57:04 PM »

PLEASE DO NOT USE THE N WORD ON THE FORUMS YOU FRIGGIN' IDIOTS.
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Trying to set a new record for number of toddlers fought off simultaneously

Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2014, 10:58:34 PM »

Andddddd settled. Lock, yes?

God, please lock this before something else asinine is posted.


And Ooops, Being offensive was not my intention. I use it all the time without thinking. Sincere apologies Sabu. 
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Sabumaru

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2014, 10:59:48 PM »

Andddddd settled. Lock, yes?

God, please lock this before something else asinine is posted.


And Ooops, Being offensive was not my intention. I use it all the time without thinking. Sincere apologies Sabu.


Thanks for your apology, just don't see the point in being banned for a colloquialism.
edit: I suggest anyone with the n-word in any of their posts immediately edit it or remove it and replace it with "homies" or something. :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 11:01:37 PM by Sabumaru »
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Trying to set a new record for number of toddlers fought off simultaneously

Bocchiere

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2014, 11:01:08 PM »

PLEASE DO NOT USE THE N WORD ON THE FORUMS YOU FRIGGIN' IDIOTS.

I didn't even bother to address that it was so ridiculous. I'd have been banned 10 minutes before posting that if it was me.

And if you can't stop doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, being rude constantly, I'll just return voiding you.
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Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2014, 11:01:34 PM »

Andddddd settled. Lock, yes?

God, please lock this before something else asinine is posted.


And Ooops, Being offensive was not my intention. I use it all the time without thinking. Sincere apologies Sabu.


Thanks for your apology, just don't see the point in being banned for a colloquialism.

I edited it as to prevent any other problems xD
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Hades

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2014, 03:50:46 AM »

Alright, since I was chosen, I will say this...

(1) Rusaku, to ease your concern, my post in the other topic was strictly intended to be an evaluation of the structure of Kirk's argument. He posited that the chakra network was not physical, and while I disagree, I pointed out that if that was true, the rest of his argument made no sense for trying to argue that Bocchiere would be damaged. I only said that according to Kirk's premise about the chakra network not being physical, Bocchiere wouldn't have been damaged. I never said that I actually thought he should've survived it. ;)

(2) To the matter at hand, I will review the relevant posts in zones 3 and 8. If posts, public or private, anywhere else are relevant, I would like to be notified.

Additionally, Rusaku and Bocchiere, I would like private messages from each of you describing your thoughts, feelings, and interpretation of the issue at hand.

I will evaluate the points of contention, focusing on this forum topic (Bocchiere being damaged) but additionally considering any other points of contention the two of you raise. I will separate any issues and construct logical arguments for what I would consider the outcome to be.

When I complete this, I will post it here on the forums, so please be detailed.


And (3) For anyone wondering, yes, I am an Illuminatus.
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Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2014, 03:52:58 AM »


And (3) For anyone wondering, yes, I am an Illuminatus.


OH THEN THE DEALS OFF, I CAN'T HANDLE THIS. GIVE PAC BACK TO US!

I'll send you a message in a moment.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2014, 03:53:09 AM »

Alright, since I was chosen, I will say this...

(1) Rusaku, to ease your concern, my post in the other topic was strictly intended to be an evaluation of the structure of Kirk's argument. He posited that the chakra network was not physical, and while I disagree, I pointed out that if that was true, the rest of his argument made no sense for trying to argue that Bocchiere would be damaged. I only said that according to Kirk's premise about the chakra network not being physical, Bocchiere wouldn't have been damaged. I never said that I actually thought he should've survived it. ;)

(2) To the matter at hand, I will review the relevant posts in zones 3 and 8. If posts, public or private, anywhere else are relevant, I would like to be notified.

Additionally, Rusaku and Bocchiere, I would like private messages from each of you describing your thoughts, feelings, and interpretation of the issue at hand.

I will evaluate the points of contention, focusing on this forum topic (Bocchiere being damaged) but additionally considering any other points of contention the two of you raise. I will separate any issues and construct logical arguments for what I would consider the outcome to be.

When I complete this, I will post it here on the forums, so please be detailed.


And (3) For anyone wondering, yes, I am an Illuminatus.

Your name is Night...mine is Shadow... I AM ILLUMINATUS'S COUSIN D:
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2014, 04:09:37 AM »

Alright, since I was chosen, I will say this...

(1) Rusaku, to ease your concern, my post in the other topic was strictly intended to be an evaluation of the structure of Kirk's argument. He posited that the chakra network was not physical, and while I disagree, I pointed out that if that was true, the rest of his argument made no sense for trying to argue that Bocchiere would be damaged. I only said that according to Kirk's premise about the chakra network not being physical, Bocchiere wouldn't have been damaged. I never said that I actually thought he should've survived it. ;)

(2) To the matter at hand, I will review the relevant posts in zones 3 and 8. If posts, public or private, anywhere else are relevant, I would like to be notified.

Additionally, Rusaku and Bocchiere, I would like private messages from each of you describing your thoughts, feelings, and interpretation of the issue at hand.

I will evaluate the points of contention, focusing on this forum topic (Bocchiere being damaged) but additionally considering any other points of contention the two of you raise. I will separate any issues and construct logical arguments for what I would consider the outcome to be.

When I complete this, I will post it here on the forums, so please be detailed.


And (3) For anyone wondering, yes, I am an Illuminatus.

Your name is Night...mine is Shadow... I AM ILLUMINATUS'S COUSIN D:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e4/e4d6c8857e5ace858097fe67c089e390ad11be1e5c709402e39149ae006f483e.jpg
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If you can't beat them, eat them.

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Hades

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2014, 09:19:28 PM »

After lengthy review of the relevant zone posts, and reviewing Rusaku and Bocchiere’s explanations of their perspectives, I have concluded the following.

The debate is whether or not Bocchiere receives damage from Rusaku (as Eikan) using the Jashin Jujutsu.

The points of contention are:

IC:
(1) Bocchiere had activated an Izanagi. Does this last sufficiently to defend him against the attack or not?


OOC:
(2): Rusaku may have violated RP guidelines. Does his post stand or not?


For Bocchiere’s Izanagi:
The obvious first problem is that time is not able to be measured in a linear fashion in RP. We can not say definitely whether or not the Izanagi would remain active simply on this principle.

However, we can first evaluate facts we know from the Narutoverse and apply those to the situation at hand in the SLverse.

Thus, it is important to note that Tobi clearly explained that a fully-powered Izanagi can work for approximately ten minutes.

There was additional debate about how it would be good for one use (i.e. Izanagi saves your life and then the eye closes and you’re done.) But logically that doesn’t really make sense. If you activate Izanagi and it “runs” for ten minutes but nothing happens, you don’t need to shift reality and illusion… So why would the eye close?

So we can say with fair certainty that Izanagi works by units of time rather than units of use, and that it works for — we will say definitively — ten minutes.

Now, applying this to the RP. Bocchiere said that his Izanagi was fully-powered, but he also posited that it would last for a tenth of the time implied by Tobi. So now the question becomes, which belief do we operate on?

After review, I don’t think it matters much either way. Clearly the actions performed following Bocchiere’s activation of Izanagi could occur within a minute if rushed (which Bocchiere presumably was, in wanting to kill both Kamui and Hazama), and they could certainly occur within ten minutes, even slowed down significantly as Rusaku says would be more realistic.

If we were try to decide this simply on the grounds of time, I would agree with Rusaku and say that realistically I doubt all of the events would occur within in a minute and still have Bocchiere be safe when Eikan performs the Jashin Jujutsu.

However, the time problem becomes compounded when you consider that Rusaku has Eikan in a different zone, and the times that the events occur relative to each other are thus very disjunct. That is a long-time problem with SL; chronology is massively broken.

So we have to instead determine our interpretation of the time via other facts. For starters, Bocchiere did agree in another topic to allow Rusaku’s post as Eikan to stand, therefore the Jashin Jujutsu being used on Bocchiere would be taking effect in the time period around when Bocchiere rushes toward Hazama in the other zone.

So, in the fight between Hazama and Bocchiere, how do we decide whether the Izanagi is still active? One minute? Ten minutes? It’s impossible to define the time that well. So we move again to implication. What other facts do we have? Well, first off, when someone activates a jutsu of any kind, generally RP guidelines would have that you presume the technique remains active until it dies on its own (often defined by cool down periods) or the player notes that they deactivate it.

Bocchiere never notes that he deactivates it, so general RP could tell us that it remains active. But, we know that Izanagi wouldn’t be able to stay active indefinitely, it would have to die eventually, even if it doesn’t have a defined cool down period by RP rules. Then, we really have to look to see if its continued use was implied.

First, Izanagi works to undo the damage done to Bocch from Saejima’s Dust Release “attack” to kill Kamui. Next, Bocchiere is attacked by Takeo’s Crystal Release jutsu. This part seems to become a bit ambiguous, but whether the crystals attacked Bocchiere where he originally stood, or while he was moving, or both, Izanagi would’ve worked to save him from that as well. However, it didn’t. Bocch never posts that Izanagi moved him again, which means that he dodged the crystals by his own means, notably with his Incineration Technique.

Realistically, I’d have to say that right about here it seems like the Izanagi would be wearing out/off. Unfortunately, this falls almost at the same time as Eikan’s attack would be noted to take effect, and it has also been made clear that in lunging toward Hazama, Bocchiere would be activating a second Izanagi to be able to tank Hazama’s attacks for a little while.

This is where the argument really seems to fall apart. Can we realistically determine if Rusaku’s post as Eikan would take effect in whatever window of opportunity exists between Bocchiere’s Izanagis?

The variables have become almost too compounded, but my personal thoughts would be that Bocchiere’s first Izanagi would overlap it and save him, moving him to a random spot while he was trying to rush Hazama, or that his second Izanagi would be activated before Rusaku’s attack and save him, again moving him. That seems more logical because Bocchiere is going to go right from one Izanagi to the next in order to keep himself alive in his fight with Haz, leaving such a small possible window for Eikan’s Jashin Jujutsu suicide to work that it seems unlikely it would work out so perfectly.

I’ll note there also that Eikan’s attack works to kill him instantly, as noted by Rusaku. The poison is not damaging the chakra network until it is injected, and once it is, it was stated to kill Eikan instantly and thus end the technique.


I find it very unlikely that Eikan’s brief (instant) period of effective Jashin Jujutsu would overlap the very small window of time following whenever Bocchiere’s first Izanagi ends and his impending second one begins.

Is that really definitive enough?

I feel like on it’s own, it probably isn’t. We also consider what is happening OOC:

Bocchiere and Hazama (account owners) have their characters battling and Rusaku (as owner) posts as the character Eikan in a separate zone “entering” the battle and using the Jashin Jujutsu.

OOC, Bocchiere and Hazama are, as far as I know, friends, with no real unceremonious intentions behind the fight their characters are having. They have their characters actively communicating and using techniques.

Rusaku’s post in the other zone was unannounced, which I generally find to be a bit disrespectful, but it was a surprise attack.

The details provided in Rusaku’s post as Eikan, however, do not provide any information to help with the interpretation of the chronological order of events in this bout, which really wasn’t too much of a problem until Eikan’s post in the other zone was involved. The exclusion of this information makes it seem like Rusaku didn’t really read what was happening with Hazama and Bocchiere and just kind of posted to kill Bocchiere and be done with it.

So ultimately what I see is Rusaku posting without appearing to have thoroughly read existing posts, entering a battle unannounced, and immediately performing an attempt at killing a character. Entering unannounced is generally considered disrespectful, and character killing actions, amongst other actions, are definitely prohibited upon entry posts in RP.


In consideration of all these relevant facts, my decision is that the more definite OOC RP guidelines trump the IC RP issue that is debatable but appears slightly inclined in Bocchiere’s favor.

I feel that while Rusaku’s plan was smart, the actions violated RP rules, lacked crucial information, and were not well-placed in the flow of events. Thus, I would have to say (though perhaps somewhat begrudgingly) that Bocchiere would not take damage from Eikan’s suicidal use of the Jashin Jujutsu.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 09:27:21 PM by Night »
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Bocchiere

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2014, 09:38:49 PM »

Lock o'clock?

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Rusaku

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Re: Now Damage
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2014, 09:46:03 PM »

I'm gonna talk with Night about this, but in the meantime.
http://thesciencedog.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ill-get-you-my-pretty.jpg
 
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