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[Eric]

Uhm...something just occurred to me.

You think they sit around and think this stuff up so no one will find them...

Heh, that is kind of the point of not advertising who your jinchurikii is, isn't it? As a village frequently terrorrized (back in the day, nowadays yall got it fairly straight) by random attackers, you have increased reason to make it fairly difficult to locate and target your jinchurikii. It makes perfect RP sense, as you state, and I don't have an issue with it in the context of just RP sense.

But RP sense alone is not what the old rules were about, and many of the new ones do not quite have the same spirit of the pure RP perspective. Hosts under the old rules were mandated to fight for the beasts, so if they are in a situation where they don't fight for the beast even though there are challengers, that was an issue, nevermind that it made RP sense. If the host did not make RP conditions that the challenger could use to feasibly get the beast without having to do an entire LotR session (which would take RL years or even a year on SL scheduling), then under the old rules, that was wrong.

As I once again put forth, if the beasts were meant for everyone to have a fair chance at getting them, then yes, the host (and by extension the village) would have to accomodate in a manner that is not necessarily befitting the RP aspect of the beast.

If the beasts were only meant for the best to even have a chance at (as has been voiced here at least once) it is completely acceptable to have difficult RP circumstances, either by design or accident, that would by itself weed out most of the SL populace. In the latter case (and only the best get a chance at the beast case) I would consider Warren (and the whole 1-tails matter) to have been the perfect example of what a jinchurikii should be like, because it takes a level of RP that is beyond the average RPer of today's time and aptitude limits. If the beasts were meant for everyone to have a chance though, he is the perfect example of what a jinchurikii should not be like, because the conditions (by RP circumstances largely out of his character's control) are simply too difficult for the average RPer of today to get past, based on information provided in a much earlier topic regarding what it would take to even find out that Warren is the host.

I feel a chakra out there. It is eric. If I have never sensed eric's chakra before then I can't go around acting like I know it is eric...I can tell you someone is there. period.

Depending on the skill of the sensor and if you have ever encountered a Leaf Nara before, you can identify that I was born in Fire Country and am of the Nara Clan. If you know that there are only 9 Leaf Nara in existence (heck, there are even fewer players of that breed) then you can postulate that I am one of the nine at the very least. Similarly, if you know what a tailed beast's chakra is like, you can identify that it is a tailed beast. While specifics are up for grabs, that is a huge step in biju hunting when it comes to finding the target.

There sole reason for existing is to be a prize to be fought over and won.

The meta plot of Naruto Shippuden in a nutshell, with the latter arcs focusing on the beasts as personal beings for plot reasons (bonding with Kurama, fulfilling prophecy).    They weren't dragonballs, but the fight over them and their power was most if not all of shippuden (due to the Akatsuki being the major antagonists over Oro being the major antagonist).

But seriously, that's been the discussion on the biju by and large for a long time now. Discussions on "how" to use the beasts in RP has been a fragment discussion here and there (Dart's thread for example). For Shinobilegends, that is their sole reason for existing since they are nothing special in a free RP-style kind of realm (beasts with a bunch of chakra? Call my homey in the coffin and put it in its place) and many jinchs (out of fear of their beast being discovered or otherwise) rarely seem to use them in character development or in RP at all for that matter.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

As long as RP exists on SL, then the need to permit bijuu to be hunted through RP means is going to have to be included. Like it or not, other people do and we do not make rules here to just suit ourselves and our needs but to be inclusive to as many people as possible.

With that in mind, let's get back to work.

Is this part acceptable to people? Does it need amendments of any sort pertaining to keeping a forum account?

-->Make a Forum Account

• Post a thread with challenge preferences, IC or OOC, and include date when 14 day grace period is over, within first post.
• Update current activity log once every 14 days in this thread within second post.
• Keep a challenger list in this thread within third post for OOC matches.
• Keep a Pursuer's list in this thread within third post for RP hunts/matches.
• Your preference rules do not exclude you from the basic rules.
• Matches can be held on the forum, in a separate thread, but it is not required, Time outs no longer occur on SL nor do posts disappear until months after the inactivity rules have been exceeded.
• Post any planned absences to this thread and match thread if applicable.

[Mei]

The Bijuu are meant to be for the prestige rp'ers, the people who have worked their asses off to get to the levels necessary to achieve the goal of having a beast. Even in the show, when choosing a host for the Hachibi, Kumogakure went through screenings to weed off the weaklings. So I will say, it is in fact fair in every way. You want a beast, work for it.

A lot of the people who have beasts now can tell you that they weren't always on the level of skill they are now, but because they wanted to crawl out of the corners of obscurity to shine among the elite, they did whatever was necessary to achieve that goal.

I agree with this. Although '...even if you write like crap, you can still not metagame or god mod or character control finding out who the host is and then tracking him down', I don't want to have to send a PM to the person after EVERY post trying to understand what s/he is trying to say or worse, asking about important details that are always omitted. Having to ask "What happened to this? What happened to that?" gets annoying after a while.

In regards to the 'Genjutsu on Bijuu', you have to remember that normal genjutsu is actually rare for a reason. "The difficulty of performing genjutsu in the first place presents an additional barrier to its use: genjutsu require precise chakra control in order to manipulate the target's senses and advanced intelligence to make the illusion convincing, prerequisites that even someone as skilled as Jiraiya lacks." http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu

The main difference between normal genjutsu and genjutsu via doujutsu is the absence of hand-signs. In regards to how genjutsu works, there's really no difference since they both have same counters.

@Kage: I was actually thinking about making a thread in regards to the byakugan being able to see Tail Beasted Chakra. So that's definitely a +1 on Hamura's side.

What's the 'policy' on chakra sensing again?
Is one allowed to use normal chakra sensing (not Mind Eye) to sense bijuu chakra in people?
If so, I assume one would have to 'witness' the bijuu's chakra beforehand, correct?

In the Byakugan case, I would assume they would know 'instantly'. I mean, they would 'scan' the area to see bijuu chakra and then 'refocus' their byakugan to see the person's face and all. The only information lacking is the person's name, which is irrelevant in a bijuu hunt anyway. It's not like anyone is really going to tell you where so-and-so is (without suspicion).

I would assume in the case of chakra sensing in general, they would not know how the person looks like but can still follow the person via their chakra signature. Correct?

Also, it's impractical (and illogical) to have your chakra cloak ALL THE TIME. >.>
Plus, everyone is using the 'bijuu chakra' to track the hosts down so who's to say it's even possible to cloak a bijuu's' chakra within you? o.o

'The rp reason to become the host is to protect the village or clan'. That's a matter of opinion.

If everyone wants IC hunts so badly, make the hosts post every 7 days, instead of 14 days, no exceptions. That's my opinion.

I do like the ideas involving the host publicly updating their current activity for the SL world to see.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

The 'knowing who the host is', based off just knowing the chakra, was abused in the past and so it is relevant and that is why I brought it up. Masane made claims to having human pathed her dead husband, a former host of whatever bijuu it was at the time, and used that as a legit reason to just show up where the new host was. It was an abuse of powers she scarcely had any understanding of how they truly worked. one may say...ok she could know the bijuu chakra, but that did not mean she knew who the host was or where.

But of course, the host got blamed and raked over the coals for not being accessible.

[Mei]

The 'knowing who the host is', based off just knowing the chakra, was abused in the past and so it is relevant and that is why I brought it up. Masane made claims to having human pathed her dead husband, a former host of whatever bijuu it was at the time, and used that as a legit reason to just show up where the new host was. It was an abuse of powers she scarcely had any understanding of how they truly worked. one may say...ok she could know the bijuu chakra, but that did not mean she knew who the host was or where.

But of course, the host got blamed and raked over the coals for not being accessible.

I'm confused. I thought that was the whole point in chakra sensing.
You sense bijuu chakra (that you witnessed before), you head towards the bijuu chakra, and then you find the host. >.>
Of course, the range of one's chakra sensing is up for debate but besides that, isn't that how it works? I mean, that's what Karin was used for, to find Itachi. I'm not sure if she even knew what Itachi looked like. >.>

I always did wonder how Karin was going to find Itachi without meeting him prior to the hunt and then it was later learned that chakra signature of fellow clansmen are similar.

[Bocchiere]

I agree to all the make a forum account rules.

As for chakra sensing as I mentioned you should always be able to sense the bijuu's chakra in the Jinchuriki, I think it should be a rule that it is not possible to hide it. Only way would be if you are in a different dimension then them. If you are within their area of sensing they should at least be able to sense massive chakra, but it is up to their IC history to determine what they could make of it, after all not everyone's met a bijuu before.

If we want to express chakra as a numerical amount we could say a Genin is 1, a Jounin is 5 and a Kage is 10. So some with Jiongu like me might be a 50, since each heart is also Kage level. If you are hunting a bijuu but have never sensed ones chakra before (ignoring the fact that I have a bijuu as well) you might sense someone with 5 times more chakra than the most chakra you've ever sensed in someone (Your village Kage) and make the not unreasonable assumption they are a Jinchuriki. You just simply aren't aware that a bijuu's chakra is something more like 500 than 50.

So I think that with regular chakra sensing that is what you'd be stuck with. Just feeling out an amount. With Byakugan and Mind's Eye you get a visual representation though. So I think you'd also be able to see an amount of chakra always within the Jinchuriki that is notably different than a human's. If you don't know the bijuu personally you might not know that is a bijuu's chakra, or which bijuu it is, but it is worth investigating. If there is some other character in the area who has something other reason for having a chakra signature tainted then you just have to deal with him throwing off your search. 

[Warren]

Byakugan isn't infallible, Neji didn't see jack shit after all after locking Naruto's chakra up, til Kurama fed his own chakra into the network, so unless your seal is beyond crap or leaking then it falls into the 'works only if bijuu chakra in use' category.

Kagura's largely the same thing despite its obscurity, so it becomes more an issue of how much insight ability one considers it to have. If I just had to throw up something, I'd say if you get a prolonged, intense look up close then you can find it, unless of course the seal is shut so tight not a speck of power can get out. Otherwise its basically another of those 'works only blahblah' things.

As for hiding bijuu chakra completely otherwise, its quite possible in a few ways, they aren't even all that complex either, they just have some potentially lethal drawbacks to them if you do get caught with your pants down regardless of the suppression.

[Rusaku]

Byakugan isn't infallible, Neji didn't see jack shit after all after locking Naruto's chakra up, til Kurama fed his own chakra into the network, so unless your seal is beyond crap or leaking then it falls into the 'works only if bijuu chakra in use' category.

Kagura's largely the same thing despite its obscurity, so it becomes more an issue of how much insight ability one considers it to have. If I just had to throw up something, I'd say if you get a prolonged, intense look up close then you can find it, unless of course the seal is shut so tight not a speck of power can get out. Otherwise its basically another of those 'works only blahblah' things.

As for hiding bijuu chakra completely otherwise, its quite possible in a few ways, they aren't even all that complex either, they just have some potentially lethal drawbacks to them if you do get caught with your pants down regardless of the suppression.

Oh here goes Warren trying to not be found ;

Neji was a gennin at the time of the fight though, and that guy specifically said he could see the fox with his Byakugan.

If they had said "Oh his seal his weak, thus I can see his beast" then sure, that argument could have some validity.

I believe that it relies fully on one's mastery of the doujutsu, not some random variable of the strength of their seal.   

[Warren]

Oh believe me, you don't want to see me actually trying to hide >> nor am I bragging, I'm legit just commenting because my view/understanding differs from yours it appears.

To elaborate using this instance, I don't believe mastery really affects ones ability to see inside the body. Perhaps magnifying level or something if you want to get fancy (see small tumor stead of organ for example), but otherwise imo nothing really changes except how far you can see, and how draining doing so for long periods is.

Following that, compare Neji's vision of chakraless Naruto to that of Otsu twins' vision of kage Naruto. Both look basically the exact same, a greyish outline of the body with the lighter colored chakra network.

Former however had not a speck of chakra, not normal, not kyubi, nothing, and you could even clearly see it leaking out of the seal in his gut after Kurama did spare some. In latter case in turn, the chakra was never suppressed and the cage of the seal was long since removed, Naruto's chakra linked with Kurama's completely, due to which not only do you see the small flame but his entire network is tinged orange-red.

If you think about how exactly bijuu are contained inside hosts, it kind of makes sense too. You don't actually physically cram the entire bloody thing in there, it'd be impossible, you compress it in its entirety inside a seal instead. Due to this there's no physical mass for byakugan to see, and if the seal is completely shut and without leaks you aren't going to see a speck of influence either.

[Bocchiere]

Warren I completely understand that it is viable to hide the beast's chakra. What I am saying is that a rule needs to be made about it, how much and how completely it should be allowed to be hidden to make the hunts reasonable and fair for both sides.

I made an entire topic about the IC hunt and think any further discussion like this should be moved there for convenience as this is the largest chunk of the bijuu rules we have to deal with, in my opinion.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

As long as RP exists on SL, then the need to permit bijuu to be hunted through RP means is going to have to be included. Like it or not, other people do and we do not make rules here to just suit ourselves and our needs but to be inclusive to as many people as possible.

With that in mind, let's get back to work.

Is this part acceptable to people? Does it need amendments of any sort pertaining to keeping a forum account?

-->Make a Forum Account

• Post a thread with challenge preferences, IC or OOC, and include date when 14 day grace period is over, within first post.
• Update current activity log once every 14 days in this thread within second post.
• Keep a challenger list in this thread within third post for OOC matches.
• Keep a Pursuer's list in this thread within third post for RP hunts/matches.
• Your preference rules do not exclude you from the basic rules.
• Matches can be held on the forum, in a separate thread, but it is not required, Time outs no longer occur on SL nor do posts disappear until months after the inactivity rules have been exceeded.
• Post any planned absences to this thread and match thread if applicable.

So in this thread we are currently commenting on this aspect of the bijuu rules. I like it, Bocc is ok with it. Who else? any faults here?

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Oh here goes Warren trying to not be found ;

I am also requesting that these personal stabs be omitted from future posts in discussions. The rest of your comments are pertinent to the topic, but when you lead off with snipes or end up with them inserting them here and there...it just makes everything you say read like shit that no one wants to listen to.

Scream it at your screen if you have to, but keep it out of sight. In case you didn't see it in the Tailed Beast Hold thread, I will repeat myself for you here.

I feel it is counterproductive to keep dwelling on the past, however. he did this, she said that, they wouldn't give me what I wanted, let's strip them!!! And everyone grabs a pitch fork and stands off.

I suggest a clean slate and let's just start from today. Be willing to give people a chance to let these things work. Discuss things rationally and politely among yourselves when you are having encounters. And don't insist upon getting your way with everything every time. Because frankly, those kinds of things don't even happen in your own dreams. Do not expect it here.

and so...

Spewing bile is something we have all been guilty of. I am not standing here trying to pretend I am not part of the problem too. But there comes a time when we all have to exert some restraint and try to come together for productivity and leave the egos and old enmities behind.

[UettoSenju]

I think it's time to just face the music. Neither side will ever get along.... void each other and move on. Simply solution. Maybe a split SL will be a happy SL.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Thank you Kirk. However I asked about the forum section of the rules. Do they look fine to you? Are the reasonable or do they need amendments?

[UettoSenju]

Thank you Kirk. However I asked about the forum section of the rules. Do they look fine to you? Are the reasonable or do they need amendments?

To be honest I don't see as to why someone needs to be forced into having a forum account. It should not be expected of anyone to be honest. It is not a mandate at SL itself.

I also feel people may use the log updates to meta-game

challenger list could be helpful

once again makes no sense to have a list of people after you IC.... hell someone could be after you that you don't know about, ninja skills perhaps? just saying everyone could be after you. I for one am not gonna tell someone OOC if I am after them or not. The can find out IC later.

rules are rules so yeah

and no. all fights should be done at SL. SL rp should not be performed someone other than the SL website itself. I don't care what advantages rping here at the forum brings this is not SL.

and I suppose announcing such things as absences would be beneficial for all parties