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[KayentaMoenkopi]

ok. so you do not want the bijuu fights to be on the forum. I left that up to choice of the participants and am not wishing to make it mandatory one way or the other.

The listing thing on the forum is to stop the accusations that are being made against hosts, to stop the lies that some hosts make, and to provide proof of...

accepting challenges
being engaged in bijuu related rp
notifying publicly of an absence
and to stop fraud of pms that are being used as proof to meet the obligations of being a host, specifically accepting challenges, announcing absences, and to establish who made a challenge first.

While this is not Sl, it is a resource that we use to facilitate game play. It is free to use. It is usable even on dinosaur pcs. Phone apps are difficult. But then so is posting on SL through one too.

[UettoSenju]

ok. so you do not want the bijuu fights to be on the forum. I left that up to choice of the participants and am not wishing to make it mandatory one way or the other.

The listing thing on the forum is to stop the accusations that are being made against hosts, to stop the lies that some hosts make, and to provide proof of...

accepting challenges
being engaged in bijuu related rp
notifying publicly of an absence
and to stop fraud of pms that are being used as proof to meet the obligations of being a host, specifically accepting challenges, announcing absences, and to establish who made a challenge first.

While this is not Sl, it is a resource that we use to facilitate game play. It is free to use. It is usable even on dinosaur pcs. Phone apps are difficult. But then so is posting on SL through one too.

Don't get me wrong I find the proposed points very helpful to the process of things working smoothly. I simply just still see problems arising. With that said though no matter what is done problems will arrise.

[Mei]

If you think about how exactly bijuu are contained inside hosts, it kind of makes sense too. You don't actually physically cram the entire bloody thing in there, it'd be impossible, you compress it in its entirety inside a seal instead. Due to this there's no physical mass for byakugan to see, and if the seal is completely shut and without leaks you aren't going to see a speck of influence either.

Okay, so basically you're saying that Byakugan won't see the bijuu if there's no leaks. Correct?
Well, obviously, if you mastered the bijuu, there will be leaks in the seal.
After all, one cannot draw on bijuu's chakra at all if the seal is completely shut.

So the whole "works only if bijuu chakra in use' category" does not even make any sense. >.>
I saw the movie and they even got Killer B, presuming using their Byakugan as well.
And we all know that Byakugan can 'grow' in insight.

Personally I don't know why some of you people think it's possible to mask/hide/cloak a bijuu's chakra. You think some little pill is going to hide all of that chakra? So far the only thing was able to hide a bijuu's chakra was the 'Chakra Isolation Chamber', a place 'that isolate all outside chakra '.  http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beast_Temple

So unless you're planning to lock yourself away in some special barrier, then it's not possible. >.>

EDIT: Correction, not even a barrier is possible.
The barrier around the Turtle Island: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/492/6
As soon as Naruto left the Temple, he was able to sense everything: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/535/6

This is how I feel about jinchuurikis talking about 'cloaking bijuu chakra'. Their real intention is to hide their bijuu from the public and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to find them.

In SL, the only lead you may get is that bijuu is in a particular village or is that metagaming also? Please correct me.

[Warren]

After all, one cannot draw on bijuu's chakra at all if the seal is completely shut.

Refer to my previous mention of extreme drawbacks to complete suppression, and I daresay you can figure it out.

[Mei]

After all, one cannot draw on bijuu's chakra at all if the seal is completely shut.

Refer to my previous mention of extreme drawbacks to complete suppression, and I daresay you can figure it out.

I think you missed the point of my post.
I'm saying that if you have MASTERY of your bijuu, that means that your seal is NOT COMPLETELY SHUT.

EDIT: And I don't know why you even mentioned that 'complete suppression' thing to me when my post specifically said that's not possible.

[Warren]

It appears you forget the existence of the keys to these seals.

[Mei]

It appears you forget the existence of the keys to these seals.

It's funny that you mentioned it because I was just reading about them before I saw your post.
And I think you may have misunderstood them.

Based on reading about Gerotora (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gerotora), loosening the seal helps draw out more power from the bijuu. So once again it stands that if you have mastery of your bijuu, your seal is not completely shut.

"About two years after Naruto started training under Jiraiya, Gerotora was summoned again. As Jiraiya began helping Naruto gain better control of the Nine-Tails' power, teaching Naruto to control its demon cloak up to producing two chaka tails, Jiraiya decided to have Gerotora unleash a bit more chakra. "

[Warren]

*facepalm* fine, I'll lay it out real nice and clean then.

If a host has the key to their own bijuu's seal, which one can safely assume basically every one of them on SL do, they have effectively free and complete reign over their seal.

"Unlocking" a seal, a requirement for full mastery since complete link can not be established otherwise no matter what, does not destroy the seal, it merely opens it wider to allow chakra to pass between beast and host basically unobstructed.

Needless to say, its equally possible to close it up again, even completely so if the host so desires. Depending on the beasts compliance or reluctance this may require forced suppression within your inner realm first before the act, but the cage or whatever else shape the seal takes inside can be closed again, you may even completely immobilize the beast inside it if the seal is designed to allow this.

As the no-brainer downside, doing this will -depending on level of suppression- either severely limit the amount of bijuu power available to you, or cut you off from it completely. Should complete severance be performed, for all intents and purposes you are a normal shinobi on the outside, unless you choose to open the seal again at a later time. Opening, much less reestablishing a link with your beast however, can take a measure of focus and time that may prove lethal in a heavy combat situation.

Simpler said; don't be a dumbass and think about it before you do it, because you can't instantly return to full power with a snap of fingers.

[Mei]

Needless to say, its equally possible to close it up again, even completely so if the host so desires. Depending on the beasts compliance or reluctance this may require forced suppression within your inner realm first before the act, but the cage or whatever else shape the seal takes inside can be closed again, you may even completely immobilize the beast inside it if the seal is designed to allow this.

The abilities of the 'key': http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/370/9
Minato restoring the seal to original strength: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/440/16
Naruto with Kyuubi influence in the eyes: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/444/4
Kyuubi bring up that previous incident: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/645/6

Four chapters later, we see Kyuubi in Naruto's eyes. High-quality seal indeed.
So at the end of the day, you cannot completely suppress a bijuu's chakra.
Personally, why are you even insisting in its possibility anyway?
Are you (and all other jinchuurikis) going to say that people can't find you because we completely suppress the bijuu's chakra (forever)? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the 'rp reason of protecting your village and clan'? Or you all simply don't want to found in the first place? >.>

In addition, was there not a thread talking about how Mind's Eye of Kagura could sense bijuu chakra anyway? And this was also after Naruto's seal was restored as well (I couldn't find the thread though but I remember it was talked about).

I showed a barrier doesn't work and the key does nothing in suppressing a bijuu's chakra.

[Warren]

Key instantly suppresses 8-9 tails of Kurama, "Key does nothing", uhh...have to say I'm not seeing your leap of logic here. Need I remind you of the time Naruto also rekt Kurama after tearing a good chunk of his chakra away, simply by turning the key?

You can't generalize his seal in this regard anyway, because for one, three seconds into training with Bee he already reveals his own has a key too yet is completely different otherwise, and secondly Naruto's seal was never explicitly meant full complete suppression on its own anyway. It was specifically constructed to allow minor amounts to seep into his network to protect him, a preparation for eventual encounter in training, while rest relied on his own chakra/will holding it back.

That's already giant implication it'd be piss easy for a sealer in canon to just make one without leaks the host himself has to keep plugged, and considering the amount of fuuinjutsu hax that already goes on SL especially among uzumakis its even easier on here.

So if you wonder why I keep insisting it works, I wonder why you keep insisting it doesn't. Though of course, we could just agree to disagree and cut the going in circles BS here, because we've already established on a number of things we don't see eye to eye you and I.

[Mei]

Warren,

All I see in your posts are assumptions.

That's already giant implication it'd be piss easy for a sealer in canon to just make one without leaks the host himself has to keep plugged, and considering the amount of fuuinjutsu hax that already goes on SL especially among uzumakis its even easier on here.

Piss easy? http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Four_Symbols_Seal
"This is a sealing technique based on the fuuinjutsu of Uzushiogakure's Uzumaki clan. The sealing formula is used to seal any target into a human body or an object, and is mainly used when a giant enemy or evil spirit needs to be sealed away. To use it, it is necessary for the user to have great ability."

Key instantly suppresses 8-9 tails of Kurama, "Key does nothing", uhh...have to say I'm not seeing your leap of logic here. Need I remind you of the time Naruto also rekt Kurama after tearing a good chunk of his chakra away, simply by turning the key?

Yeah, after Naruto had to play tug of war with the Kurama.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Torii_Seal

"By using the seal's key, he can create several massive interlocking torii that can even immobilise and imprison Kurama with ease. Naruto then isolated Kurama's chakra in another part of him away from the fox itself in between four torii, so he could access it freely."

So the chakra of both Naruto and Kurama are now separated...so how does one suppress bijuu chakra again?

You can't generalize his seal in this regard anyway, because for one, three seconds into training with Bee he already reveals his own has a key too yet is completely different otherwise, and secondly Naruto's seal was never explicitly meant full complete suppression on its own anyway. It was specifically constructed to allow minor amounts to seep into his network to protect him, a preparation for eventual encounter in training, while rest relied on his own chakra/will holding it back.

Even if the key is different, they all have the same function.
We don't know anything else besides B's seal (Iron Armor Seal) other than it is weaker than the Four Symbols Seal. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Armour_Seal
I would not be surprised if B's seal did not have the ability for complete suppression either.
Another example is look at Gaara's case.

From the databook.
"When the Yondaime Hokage sealed the Demon Fox inside of Naruto, the effect was made stronger by putting together two "Four Symbols Seals". At that time, he also left an opening at the space where the sealing formulas meet, allowing the Demon Fox's chakra to merge with Naruto's chakra. This sealing-style, because it consists of two "Four Symbols Seals," is called an "Eight Trigrams Sealing-style."

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/49/7
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/49/8

"12 years since the seal...Naruto-kun and the Nine Tails chakra are beginning to fuse."

The point is...it did not happen on Day 1.

So if you wonder why I keep insisting it works, I wonder why you keep insisting it doesn't. Though of course, we could just agree to disagree and cut the going in circles BS here, because we've already established on a number of things we don't see eye to eye you and I.

Because I have shown you that it doesn't? =/

-----

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/493/14

Naturally, the jinchuurikis were viewed as military power.
By that logic, a seal (regardless of what it is) would never be designed to be for complete suppression anyway (assuming if it's even possible).
And even if a jinchuuriki wanted a 'complete suppression' seal, the person would have to get an entirely new seal which involves taking the bijuu out, subduing the bijuu while creating this 'new seal'. A lot of manpower would be involved as well as Uzumaki-level sealing experts needed.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/494

So even by canon logic, complete suppression is not allowed (assuming it's possible).

But as you say, we can agree to disagree.

[Warren]

Better that we do then, because your arguments are assumptions and personal interpretations just the same, and this has gone in the exact same direction as a number of our previous discussions so its evident continuing is pointless >_>; ultimately I can't tell you whats absolute truth and neither can you tell me what I can and can not do.

Bottomline for me in this is, it can be done if your seal is designed to allow such in a way that makes legitimate sense to me (people know I can be bloody picky so its not easy), and you have the key to control it with, so imo if people can fill those conditions then they're by all means free to do so. They just will be subject to the aforementioned severe limitations, without exception.

[Mei]

Better that we do then, because your arguments are assumptions and personal interpretations just the same, and this has gone in the exact same direction as a number of our previous discussions so its evident continuing is pointless >_>; ultimately I can't tell you whats absolute truth and neither can you tell me what I can and can not do.

Bottomline for me in this is, it can be done if your seal is designed to allow such in a way that makes legitimate sense to me (people know I can be bloody picky so its not easy), and you have the key to control it with, so imo if people can fill those conditions then they're by all means free to do so. They just will be subject to the aforementioned severe limitations, without exception.

Personal interpretations? I gave you links, I gave you quotes, and I even gave you logical reasoning...for free! (you probably didn't read that). >.>

But I'm confused by your statement, I don't think I told/requested you do or not do anything.
I'm just presenting an argument that disagrees with what you're saying. >.>

After all, this is SL, everyone has the right to argue a case as well as the freedom to do whatever they want.

Any jinchuuriki can say their seal was designed for complete suppression (and NOT follow the 'aforementioned severe limitations'). However, I realized I wasted my time debating with you when I read this...

As for chakra sensing as I mentioned you should always be able to sense the bijuu's chakra in the Jinchuriki, I think it should be a rule that it is not possible to hide it. Only way would be if you are in a different dimension then them. If you are within their area of sensing they should at least be able to sense massive chakra, but it is up to their IC history to determine what they could make of it, after all not everyone's met a bijuu before.

I wish I read that sooner.

[Warren]

Au contraire I did read it, and saw little to nothing in there that either didn't have any relation to the matter at hand whatsoever, or instead actually just supported my argument. I just thought I'd be the grown up and quit first, because exactly as I suspected you aren't going to agree because either your personal interpretation differs or just think it shouldn't be so for whatever reason.

Fortunately for you however I seem to be a waste of time, so I'm quite done with this subject.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

What I see as piss easy, is that everyone is going to claim to be a powerful fuuinjutsu user. So there is that.

Secondly, since the two four symbols seals were purposefully left gapped in order to allow seepage of bijuu chakra, to apply them without a gap would indicate that no leaking would occur.

Additionally, the bijuu would not have to be extracted and resealed in order for the alteration to occur. Seals can overlay others...be used to augment existing condition and thus create the desired effect.

Now the draw backs of doing this are huge and were laid out by Warren in his posts.

It is not impossible, but dang...why would a person want to do so if they are going to have to deal with that sort of back lash?