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[Warren]

Honestly speaking? Doubt he, if he even is a god stead of a spirit or just a delusion, would really care. A murder is a murder just the same, regardless of who performs it.

[Keito Uzumaki]

Honestly speaking? Doubt he, if he even is a god stead of a spirit or just a delusion, would really care. A murder is a murder just the same, regardless of who performs it.

True, I guess that does not matter though.

Also! To further put my input I would just like to point out how I view it on the base that this attempt was 'god mod'
Eikan is not a Hidan; meaning he does not have the immortal abilities to survive the self inflicted pain given off by the Jashin technique. This meaning he may know of everything about the technique and its effects but not survive it just because he is a believe of Jashin. Hidan was the one successful experiment to be able to do what Bocch does in the realm; be immortal. This immortality ability wouldn't help his case in the way of Eikan's actions.
By linking the two together and completely destroying all his tenketsu with poison....I mean c'mon ye' can't out live that, even as Jashin himself. Further more agreeing to the death of his character to prove that his character doesn't copy the immortality ability; that is required to need body modifications to execute, gives it more legitimacy than ever. So seeing this attempt as god-mod is incorrect in my opinion.

[Warren]

Bit of a difficult one since I can't recall any other such case before, but even with naruto's twisted logic (yes, it does exist), after a bit of research I would daresay that will kill even a jashinist who's undergone the immortality treatment.

While yes, it allows effectively ignoring physical injuries to the point of decapitation, it still can't bypass the one core rule; every sentient organic being needs chakra to live, even animals and non-ninja civilians. Striking every single tenketsu effectively shuts down your entire chakra network, which in turn halts the flow of chakra completely. No chakra to cells, and we get the same result as the victims of tree form shinju's attack; death.

[Rusaku]

For those who don't feel like looking up the attack.

Eikan would walk in quickly, covered in what appeared to be a horrific torture device. A plethora of injection needles filled with a purple liquid would be sticking out in seemingly random locations all over this device of sorts. 363 of them to be exact. In his left hand would be a switch, and in his right would be a jar of blood, and a small vial that contained blood as well. Stopping in the middle of a clearing Eikan would look to the sky. The ominous clouds, with the occasional crack of thunder would set the mood quite beautifully. Taking the larger jar of blood that was produced several days ago from his own body, Eikan would quickly draw the Jashinist insignia used for the darkest of rituals. Once done the man would toss the jar to the side and begin the next phase. Reaching up he would pull the hood up to cover his face, revealing two of the 363 plungers to be located at eye level. A smirk would form over his face as he placed the vial of blood into his mouth, holding it with his teeth. He would then zip up the overcloak he was wearing all the way to the top of the hood, thus putting all of the plungers into their place. Unbeknownst to any onlookers, each needle would be located perfectly in line with one of Eikan’s tenketsu. Not including the two aimed directly for his eyes. |Using his tongue Eikan would uncap the vial of blood allowing it to cascade down his throat making this one of the last steps for the ritual to be complete. With the vial in his mouth and this device covering his face it would be impossible for him to pray out loud, so internally he would say a beautifully dark prayer to the lord of death, before jumping into the circle. His skin would turn black, accented with white markings, giving him the appearance of a voodoo doll. Though this would be unseen by all due to his current outfit of sorts. Even then, the change in appearance would not last long, because the moment the link was made between the man who’s blood he had ingested, and Eikan, he would press the switch, and all 363 needles would inject their contents into his body at the same time. Eikan would instantly fall to the ground, dead. “What had happened?” one might ask, and the answer was simple. Inside of the injection needles would have been a powerful Dokuton in liquid form. It’s specific ability was to obliterate the Chakra pathway system in as little time as possible. Now, one needle of this would take about 3 minutes to fulfill it’s purpose. Though 361 into each tenketsu, would do the same job instantly. Then 2 of the needles would be meant for the eyes alone. Thier job was to destroy the cells that made up the eye in a similar speed as the rest of the poison. So, in conclusion should the link have gone without a hitch, the man on the other end of this ritual known as Bocchiere would find his entire chakra pathway system destroyed in an instant, along with his eyes. And as any base medical ninja would know, the chakra pathway system was intertwine with all of the organs inside of one’s body. Just having 64 of the tenketsu closed via gentle fist would be enough to render most crippled. So having every tenketsu destroyed instantly would utterly kill anyone. Though Bocc was a jashinist wasn’t he? Well, unfortunately for him that would not be a saving grace. With his organs no longer working, and no chakra through his body, the weakness of the Jashin immortality would come into play. Malnutrition. No nutrients would be correctly distributed through the body, and the brain would no longer be functioning to give out proper signals, either officially killing the immortal, or rendering him no more than a sad little vegetable. Nighty night Bochhiball. (OOC obligatory note: Jashinism was received Via Manji whom human pathed Bocc. The vial of blood was also received via Manji whom took it from the original body of the Jashinist,)

[Eric]

TL;DR in green below.

(Making a note that I am posting this for another friend before people go getting ideas.)

In zone 3 on the account Eikan, I rped using the same underhanded tactic that Bocc used to ‘kill’ Kamui twice now. By taking some of his blood I ingested it and made the circle and proceed to kill myself. Now; I obtained Jashinism through Manji Uchiha, whom Human pathed Bocc a while back to gain all of his knowledge. That is how I gained the ability to use the dark Ritual. Manji also gave me a vial of his blood. I rped everything, and have the PDF files to prove it, but now all of a sudden in order to use the Ritual itself, you need a body modification, even though it says on the Wiki the immortality alone was what needed a body mod. I decided to ask Hazama (Who is so graciously making this forum topic for me) And he says he never got a body modification from bocc to use the Ritual. Odd don’t you think? That now all of a sudden you need this miraculous surgery to use the attack that is gonna kill him? Well, even if this was true and not utterly Meta, you cannot customize a canon tech and still call it canon. So while he has made his own little branch of Jashinism, the actual Canon jashinism would still be available for me to use seeing as it would be in his repertoire of knowledge gained by Manji. And with Manji giving me all his available knowledge of Jashin, the attack would still be valid.

Alright, before i delve into this, Kamui actually was off'd a second time by that technique?    Da fuq...

Secondly, how does one kill a fellow jashinist (one who is immortal last I checked) with their own technique? Unless the hiden has that particular weakness, the means with which you off yourself determines whether the jashinist victim would even need to worry. Presuming you did sufficient (and proper) damage to perform this, I'm startled that this is only just now coming to light/attention. (Well, not really, last minute is always ftw).

Going off what Warren said, immortality came first, not the Cursed Blood Technique...

Presuming that one recognizes the claim that Jashin is a character (which I doubt anyone does save for that character) then yes, immortality came first considering that backstory. Logically, I highly doubt that immortality came first.

This seems like a very useful torture and incapacitate tool (not necessarily kill). Using advanced medical techniques, a stab to the knee that cripples your opponent you can heal from, the speed of which not mattering since your foe could only kill you to actually beat you, while your fellow spiritualists savagely kill your crippled foe.

So, using logic, the technique probably came first; immortality came second after the Jashinists experimented with their special regeneration techniques, in order to enhance their special ritual kill technique. Presuming that the killing is linked to the immortality, they started killing their foes using the technique once they no longer had to be concerned with also dying, and in order to make sure that they did not have to be concerned about dying. But that is speculation.

And even then, suicide is not uncommon in religious warfare. Suicide bombers come to mind?

... You told me before that all it takes for someone to be a Jashinist is to for them to believe in the religion, just like Chiyo had before you actually gave her immortality.

So, Eikan believes in Jashin, knows of the history, and then offs himself using the technique he was taught. It's suicide, yes, but it's not impossible.

All it takes to use shadow imitation proficiently is to be a member of the Nara Clan (in my book). But that does not give anyone the right to use my custom Nara clan techniques, nor re-create similar version of them without my permission (without my permission being key, as I have given permission once before. It turned into a bit of a mess though since the re-creation was not as fluidly done, and said character decided to attack Konoha/Naras using the inspired technique).

The Death Controlling is not a custom technique. It is a canon technique that, as we discussed in the kirisame thread:

Getting way off topic >.>

Fair enough, I'll let it go, even though the strength of the technique is what made its comparisons to hiraishin questionable in the first place. Not to mention Bocc's logic is one hard to beat unless you're into repetition.

Cloud, blown, have the very water in the cloud absorb chakra (which would make some sense since the rain is able to absorb chakra) and Futon on it rendered impractical again.

The point of the matter is that canonically, it is a secret technique of the Mit  of Kirigakure; in the SL-verse, this is apparently not the case, and many find that it is a little late for Kiri to try to force through OOC a cease-and-desist order on the jutsu.

Examples of some secret techs:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Demonic_Mirroring_Ice_Crystals (Hijutsu: Makyō Hyōshō)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Secret_Technique:_Mist_Rain (Hijutsu: Kirisame)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Wood_Release_Secret_Technique:_Nativity_of_a_World_of_Trees (Mokuton Hijutsu: Jukai Kōtan)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Imitation_Technique (Konoha Hiden: Kageshibari no Jutsu it has been called at one point)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/One_Thousand_Years_of_Death (Konohagakure Hiden Taijutsu Ōgi: Sennen Goroshi is the full name according to the wiki)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Iwagakure_Kinjutsu (No name is given by wikia, though the series stated that it was an Iwa secret kinjutsu)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Earth_Grudge_Fear (Earth Grudge Fear)



A common trend among them is that they tend to either possess the identity of the user(s) in the technique name, or it is explicitly stated in some other fashion. Also among these groups, the users tend to either be among the individuals taught the technique or thieves of the technique in some shape or fashion.

The Kirigakure hunter ninja example is not much of an exception from what we are shown, so we can assume canonically that it is a technique passed down only among Mist shinobi (specifically, their hunter ninja division).

Obviously in the SL-verse that is not the situation, even though Bocc has claimed for a long time now to have come from Kirigakure (check the history of the page if you're skeptical: http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Bocchiere?oldid=14987 ) and to have advanced to the rank of ANBU, around which time he got picked up by the Cult.

Now, Bocc may have picked up the technique during his time in the ANBU, as the hunter ninja are a special division of Kiri's ANBU (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter-nin). Presuming of course Kiri's claims were to go through, Bocc would still have legitimate cause to know the technique, whether he stole it from former comrades or was taught it being somewhat irrevelent at this point.

Now, while that is unimportant in the scheme that Kiri really can't hardcore put a cease and desist order on the technique on users who already know it, it is something to point out if Bocc's usage of the technique comes into question. Kiri can actively state that future users cannot just up and claim the technique if they want and go from there, as there is sufficient backing that they can claim it.

They just can't retro-claim all the folks who already have it.

That's me returning to the topic. 


*As a parallel to the Sound Release discussion, it can be claimed to be theirs in origin, but they can't stop folks who already have it from using it.

tl,dr: It can be claimed to be his in origin, but he can't stop folks who already have it before enforcement from using it. Additionally, he cannot stop them from teaching it either.


Based on Bocc's backstory, he has, in a way, claimed the distribution technique, and has restricted the usage, very similar to hiraishin. Does he have a contract? Well, no, but he does have conditions that need to be met all the same. Were they published somewhere public, or at least known to those who were made jashinists?

It is likely, but don't get me started on things I don't know for sure.


Now, on to the actual problem at hand, which is whether or not what's his face can have access to this technique.

According to narutoprofile wikia, Bocc's profile, which may or may not be up to date:

...Voicing these opinions gained the attention of the Cult of Jashin who were secretly planning a coup against the Mist village. Bocchiere agreed wholeheartedly with this plan of action but was disappointed to find that the cult contained no one of great strength, they had decided to pin their hopes on him. Through weeks upon pain laden weeks Bocchiere was changed, he gained not only the most powerful abilities of the Cult of Jashin but the powers of the Kaguya Shikotsumyaku as well. After being thoroughly changed by the cult Bocchiere decided that he no longer needed the support of such weaklings and slaughtered them all and took a relic of the their, and his new faith...

Bocc acquired (through means unexplictly stated, but otherwise presumed to be experimentation) immortality and the jashinist techniques. The page's most recent update was in late September, so I have little doubt that this information is somewhat accurate.

*ahem*

Bocchiere stole the experiments from the Cult of Jashin that he destroyed, only after destroying them he discovered that he could not replicate the experiment, thus I only have a limited amount of Jashinists I can make, due to the limited supply of chemicals that have proven impossible to reproduce. 10 to start now minus Night, Hazama, and Kuma. That's why I don't just make everyone in Akatsuki a Jashinist, there would be no downside to doing so otherwise...

This read is more famaliar than I feel it should be, but nonetheless, this is only slightly contradictory, as it suggests that he cannot replicate the "experiment", which is the immortality. If, as earlier postulated, that immortality and the technique are intricately linked, then it is likely that the user must kill in order to maintain their immortality; otherwise, I see no other reason for why the two would be as cloesely linked as one to need immortality in order to use the blood controlling technique.

If indeed the two techniques are that closely linked, then I agree whole-heartedly that without being immortal, one could not use this technique.


However, Bocc's claim that there is no other jashinist is partially incorrect, at least in the aspect that the immortality has only ever been claimed by him:

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Angra_Mainyu

Whether still active or not, I recall when this man was in Konoha. And he claimed to be Jashin. I, and perhaps some others, did not take the claim of being a God very seriously, but his inability to die and such such seemed to be acknowledged in RP, or at least continues to be claimed. The source of this guy's immortality is an experiment that put all the world's evils into him, or something to that strain:

Immortality Edit

Angra Mainyu's main advantage is his inability to die, a result of being cursed with the world's evils when he was but a simple villager. His immortality allows him to survive numerous fatal injuries, and almost any form of dismemberment over the countless years he has lived. Even though he is impervious to most physical attacks, as well as survive the injuries that actually get through to him, he is still susceptible to pain, however in the present he barely recognizes it, having suffered much traumatic pain in the past. Despite being "immortal", he is still capable of dying from a lack of nutrients.

That is the short version. Anyways, notice how the characteristics are VERY similar to that of the jashinist immortality, because in that continium, they are one in the same. While Angra does not claim the technique in question, he does claim the so called parent technique:

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Verg_Avesta


Now then, looking at the zone postings, the killing occurs supposedly by destroying the chakra network itself in the body.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_Pathway_System

For all intensive purposes, let us hope that Bocc was not in the middle of a technique, because without a doubt he would not be able to use it.

Now, what is within doubt is whether it would instantly kill him or not.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kakuzu

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Wind_Release:_Rasenshuriken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5VV0UtuyMw  15:40

Being hit directly with the rasenshuriken obliterated Kakuzu in many ways, one of them ripping him at the cellular level. As described by Tsunade and the fact that Kakuzu was hit dead on by this technique, he effectively could not channel chakra at all, nor move. His chakra pathway system was largely if not completely unusable.

The sage mode version would have left nothing of him, but that is besides the point. Without his chakra system, Kakuzu still lingered in life, despite losing all of his hearts and any rugged circulatory system that he may have had. Of course, the severity of the damage can be argued to not have been complete and utter destruction, but complete severing is pretty close as far as canon example goes.

Kakuzu still had to be finished off, though that is probably because of his hidden technique turning his body into that puppet thing. Of course, Kakashi was smart enough not to take any chances.

So, in theory, Bocc might could survive the attack due to his body modifications, but the nature and what fuels the immortality would have to come into question. If it is chakra, chances are, the jashinist experiments would not help him. The only argument that could be made for him surviving is that Hidan can be decapitated and thus, survive being cut off from any source of chakra from his body, though how that is done would also determine whether destroying the network entirely is done.


So, presuming that we cast aside the alternate history to the jashinist immortality and its blood controlling technique and focus solely on Bocc's, and also set on the notion that the technique and immortality are not intricately linked in a fashion rendering them inseparable, then I hold to the claim that the technique can in fact be acquired in the manner stated. I also hold to the assertion that it is ridiculous to try to kill Bocc using this technique using traditional methods of offing onself.

Concerning the attack, Bocc may have a chance at survival, if it can be argued that his immortality would prevent him from being killed by this. He would be unable to use chakra and thus jutsu if he were to survive without immediate repair (since as Warren said, he could not survive long if at all without chakra flow, though he wouldn't necessarily lose his chakra), which is not really possible with medical ninjutsu, and would likely require a reincarnation technique of sorts (hence why his foe struck his eyes I presume) or the Earth Grudge Fear technique (which would re-create a surrogate chakra circulatory system, though unless he knows it himself he would need someone else to maintain this structure).

In really really short, it would have been less of a debate in my opinion had the guy just vaporized his own body via dust release or something of that sort.

Whew. Now I can check on my biju list postings.

[Sabumaru]

A jashinist killing a jashinist with the curse blood technique seems impossible to me since they both operate off the same immortality. The technique didn't make Hidan more immortal.

That's really all I want to say for now.

[Bocchiere]

Does Kyu have a list somewhere of all his secret experiments that he can pull up and show anyone that attempts to rp with him? I doubt it, nor do I have to have something similar.

I claimed Jashinistic Immortality and the Curse Blood Jutsu, I had both for half a decade before I gave it to Tsuyo. There is no canon or un-canon version, there is just my version, Tsuyo got it from me, that's what he has. If he doesn't like how I rp'd it then that is unfortunate for him.

They can't claim to have the jutsu from me, but also void all the rp I've done with it because they don't like it. I do not acknowledge that Tsuyo can make anyone immortal or give anyone the Curse Blood jutsu for reasons I have explained.

EVEN IF THIS WERE NOT TRUE.

You know what jutsu I used the post before last? Izanagi. Senju enhanced 60 seconds of Izanagi. I reappeared and then immediately Kamui'd to Hazama, which is when Eikan is trying to kill me. I'm probably 20-30 seconds into my Izanagi. So regardless of what happens in this topic I could merely claim that the damage is negated through my last half minute or so of Izanagi. You know what happens if you don't like it? Don't rp with me. I'm pretty tired of my "friends" who get mad at me for not letting them god mod in their fights for Akatsuki's bijuu.

Good job trying to kill me specifically during the single time I've ever used that jutsu.

[Trev]

Where these rules of Bocc's posted anywhere, wiki, bio page, profile? If not, I'm inclined to not believe them. Not because I don't trust Bocc, but I like to look at everything from a judge standpoint.

I also don't think Izangi is a viable defense here, you never stated those times and how long time had passed in your post. Once again from a judge's perspective.

That being said, I didn't even read Eikan's post, so I couldn't tell you if what he is trying to do will in fact kill Bocc, and don't really care. Unless you have these Jashin rules posted where someone can see them, in my mind Eikan has the right to perform this little suicide technique of his.

Whether it works or not is another matter, one I don't care for. So that's my two cent.

EDIT:

After the reading post, it seems his attack should work. Though I question where he got the chakra network eating liquid Dokuton. To my knowledge that is a claimed Otogakure thing, known to few. and he doesn't seem to list Dokuton in his bio. So I wonder where that came from. Other than that, in my opinion everything looks fine

Double Edit:
Also, assuming his post is allowed and he does have the Jashin technique. I would question how old the blood is. Similar to why I don't agree with Bocc killing Kamui, blood isn't good forever people. In fact the shelf life is very short. I'd be a hypocrite if I changed my opinion on this matter just because it is potentially Bocc dying.

[Rusaku]

I would like to point out that the one weakness to the Jashin immortality is Malnutrition, and with the chakra pathway system linked to all organs including the brain, he would suffer instant malnutrition. Or at the very least put him in a coma. 

Now, as Bocc loves to say "If you didn't state it, it didn't happen" As as far as I can see you did not post a time length for your Izanagi, so after you 'killed' Kamui, it would be over in my opinion.

[Bocchiere]

I would like to point out that the one weakness to the Jashin immortality is Malnutrition, and with the chakra pathway system linked to all organs including the brain, he would suffer instant malnutrition. Or at the very least put him in a coma. 

Now, as Bocc loves to say "If you didn't state it, it didn't happen" As as far as I can see you did not post a time length for your Izanagi, so after you 'killed' Kamui, it would be over in my opinion.

I would instantly starve to death?



Thank you for agreeing with me. I stated to have used a Senju enhanced Izanagi, which is 60 seconds long, the time limit is not variable. I also did not yet state it was over. Thus it continues.

I don't see Dark's rules for Hiraishin posted anywhere and they use him for rulings on that jutsu. Which I have pointed out in this topic, and yes Dark does make it weaker than its canon version to make it fair. I could variably use Hiraishin as an Offensive, Defensive, and Supplementary action, but Dark's rules prevent one from Hiraishining more than once a turn.

There is no argument here, this is not a bijuu fight. I stated how I rp Jashinism and stated that the people who are trying to kill me are using it in a fashion that, to me, is god mod, thus I void it. It would be no different then if they had claimed to have made 50 people immortal, it is not allowed. I do not need to prove that I am choosing to void them to a judge.

[Trev]

Dark's rules are on the wiki, btw.

[Hazama]

And he took the time to try and catch me with Killing Intent, talk about being a disgrace to Jashin and Akatsuki, and create the one tail cloak around his form. That's a fair amount of time, even if it wasn't stated.

Regardless, I'd like to take our attention to something else.

Dokuton Poison. People are talking about surviving this, if the more is fine, but not the way that Otokagure Dokuton works. It is made to eat, attack, and  completely destroy chakra and the chakra network. It's made to counter Dokuton, even something as powerful as the Mokuton Dragon that can absorb chakra. Even as a Jashinist, that would take anyone done at such a large quantity. Hell, when it just gets in someone's system it is deadly, let alone at each chakra point in the body.

Even though,  I guess, not directly into Bocch's body, the damage still applies and all.

[Hazama]

And he talked to Saejima, sent him back, and THEN came to do all that other stuff in the zone with me.

[Trev]

I could tell everyone in here all about Otogakure Dokuton, until the cows come home, since I've talked to Tau, Shirno, and Shadow bouts it. I questioned where he got it from, not what it does!

Though we're getting a little ahead here everybody. Let us not discuss Dokuton, Izangi, etc. First we need to get a clear decision on whether he can use the Jashin technique at all. It's pointless to talk about anything else. Once that's done, it will either end this topic, or we can move on and examine the post.

[Keito Uzumaki]

I'm waiting on a mutual agreement between the community before continuing.
It is made apparent that Eikan learned the techniques through Manji; whom human path'ed Bocch way back when he had the red and black lumberjack. Without the hat to match.
It was through such means that we have an argument I guess. On whether such is plausible for Eikan to know the Jashin way of killing.

If we can get past to this I'd like to also throw in that I have some involvement in this:
Bocchiere seemed to have attacked Hazama upon his failure to stay true to his word and kill Kamui.
Bocch entered the zone immediately triggering Killing Intent and what not. Haz would restrict such and say some words to the man as he would begin forming into his tailed beast mode v1. Takeo was observing the Haz and Kamui fight, thus still there for when Bocch arrived. Sensing the threat he went after him in regards to defend his new kage.

This attempted one shot happened now. As the battle is starting between Bocch and the two sound nin, thus what is expected ICly in the next following events.

Voiding doesn't help anyone; Bocch voided Kamui's existence, Kamui voided Bocch's one shot.
Now the new scenario Bocch voided Eikan's one shot, Eikan voided Bocch's existence.
What logic is there anymore!? D,: